The Kenny Atkinson thread Part II

[Prokorov]

Loved the comments from Kenny over the weekend:

"“We don’t talk about projections,” Kenny Atkinson said at the beginning of the season. “We don’t talk about win shares. We don’t talk about it. It’s a cliche, but we’re so focused on the process, so focused on our team, so focused on team development and player development, and we’re going to measure those."

"As we've said before, we want something that's done strategically and systematically, build a strong foundation and not something that's a fleeting moment, something that will last"

The guy gets it... Marks too. going outside the plan to eek out a win or two isnt the focus. the focus is to create something sustainable. not bend over backwards to be a 28 win team instead of a 24 win team.

As ive speculated, and right from the horses mouth right here.... the team doesnt measure themselves by wins. nor should they at this juncture. nor should they speed things up. levert is having a good stretch, no need to up his minutes outside of their plan just like their would be no need to cut his minutes for poor play(or anyone elses poor play).

It takes a tough coach to keep strong on this path. GM too.

[MrDollarBills]

Loved the comments from Kenny over the weekend:

"“We don’t talk about projections,” Kenny Atkinson said at the beginning of the season. “We don’t talk about win shares. We don’t talk about it. It’s a cliche, but we’re so focused on the process, so focused on our team, so focused on team development and player development, and we’re going to measure those."

"As we've said before, we want something that's done strategically and systematically, build a strong foundation and not something that's a fleeting moment, something that will last"

The guy gets it... Marks too. going outside the plan to eek out a win or two isnt the focus. the focus is to create something sustainable. not bend over backwards to be a 28 win team instead of a 24 win team.

As ive speculated, and right from the horses mouth right here.... the team doesnt measure themselves by wins. nor should they at this juncture. nor should they speed things up. levert is having a good stretch, no need to up his minutes outside of their plan just like their would be no need to cut his minutes for poor play(or anyone elses poor play).

It takes a tough coach to keep strong on this path. GM too.

Amen, and no matter how frustrating some of these losses have been, in the pressers Kenny is always about the end goal, not the interim.

The three young players are all making strides. There is no coincidence that when they come in, the tempo, defensive effort, and ball movement immediately improve. That in itself is a testament to the team working with this kids and letting them work through mistakes and failures.

Play the long game, you win. While fans are ready to write guys off after 60 career games or 2 months into their NBA career, the team isn't and i'm glad common sense and patience are finally at work here instead of knee jerk behavior just to get 24 wins instead of 21.

[Prokorov]

some rookie/young guy splits:

Whitehead

October/November (13 games)
4/3/2.5 on 42 TS% 2.9 TOV 0.81 PPP

December (12 games)
8/2/3 on 54 TS% 2.3 TOV 0.92 PPP

January (10 games)
7/3.5/2.5 on 44 TS% 1.9 TOV 0.84 PPP

Levert

October/November (0 games)
N/A

December (12 games)
5/2.5/1.5 on 48 TS% 0.97 PPP 32.3% 3PT

January (11 games)
9.5/2.5/2.5 on 65.7 TS% 1.21 PPP 34.1% 3PT


Rondae Hollis-Jefferson

October/November (14 games)
9/5/3 on 49 TS% 0.91 PPP 1.8 TOV

December (15 games)
9/5/1.5 on 49 TS% 0.99 PPP 1.1 TOV

January (10 games)
9/5/2 on 55 TS% 0.97 PPP 2.1 TOV

[TTNN]

I'm more impressed with this split:

RHJ Drives:

Oct, Nov: 24 min/game, 4.9 drives per game, finish at 27.6% FG%

Dec: 20.7 min/game, 3.7 drives per game, finish at 46.7%

Jan: 18.9 min/game, 4.2 drives per game, finish at 52.4%

I think this is the biggest improvement of RHJ, and was the focus for him during the first half of the season. My feeling is that each player has their own focus and their own goal of development, this one is very obvious.

[Prokorov]

I'm more impressed with this split:

RHJ Drives:

Oct, Nov: 24 min/game, 4.9 drives per game, finish at 27.6% FG%

Dec: 20.7 min/game, 3.7 drives per game, finish at 46.7%

Jan: 18.9 min/game, 4.2 drives per game, finish at 52.4%

I think this is the biggest improvement of RHJ, and was the focus for him during the first half of the season. My feeling is that each player has their own focus and their own goal of development, this one is very obvious.

That is a great split/stat.

Also another of example of why you let these guys play through struggles and failure. had kenny yanked RHJ aside and told him to stop doing things he isnt capable of he would still be that guy who cant handle the ball or do anything driving to the hoop.

not that he is prime MJ or anything now... but he looks better and maybe more important he looks confident. increased percentages finsihing/volume without turnovers really going up much. also has finsihed with his right hand a few times.

still a LONG way to go, but clear improvement

[MrDollarBills]

I'm more impressed with this split:

RHJ Drives:

Oct, Nov: 24 min/game, 4.9 drives per game, finish at 27.6% FG%

Dec: 20.7 min/game, 3.7 drives per game, finish at 46.7%

Jan: 18.9 min/game, 4.2 drives per game, finish at 52.4%

I think this is the biggest improvement of RHJ, and was the focus for him during the first half of the season. My feeling is that each player has their own focus and their own goal of development, this one is very obvious.

This is one where the eyeball test could have told the same story, he's really cleaned up a lot of the mistakes (he attacks at better angles instead straight into 2 or more defenders) and his handle looks tighter as each game goes on. Very encouraging

[MrDollarBills]

I'm more impressed with this split:

RHJ Drives:

Oct, Nov: 24 min/game, 4.9 drives per game, finish at 27.6% FG%

Dec: 20.7 min/game, 3.7 drives per game, finish at 46.7%

Jan: 18.9 min/game, 4.2 drives per game, finish at 52.4%

I think this is the biggest improvement of RHJ, and was the focus for him during the first half of the season. My feeling is that each player has their own focus and their own goal of development, this one is very obvious.

That is a great split/stat.

Also another of example of why you let these guys play through struggles and failure. had kenny yanked RHJ aside and told him to stop doing things he isnt capable of he would still be that guy who cant handle the ball or do anything driving to the hoop.

not that he is prime MJ or anything now... but he looks better and maybe more important he looks confident. increased percentages finsihing/volume without turnovers really going up much. also has finsihed with his right hand a few times.

still a LONG way to go, but clear improvement

He also has started taking a dribble in versus a defender for the quick mid range pull up. I don't have the numbers on how well this is going but as of late he's been knocking that shot down too.

This is what happens when you allow young players to play through mistakes, get them in the film room, communicate to them what they're doing wrong and allow for them to clean it up. Not bench them, or ship them off to the d league

Kenny's method is working. We need to get McCullough some NBA reps and let him now go through the process.

Re: Whitehead, I want to see him start to really take and knock down those threes with some confidence. His shot does not look bad at all he's just got to hit the clean looks. Otherwise, the turnovers are down, and he needs to also continue to attack his man off of the dribble when he has the lane.

LeVert doesn't need to do anything but keep playing hard

[ChokeFasncists]

It takes a tough coach to keep strong on this path. GM too.

And Prok the owner I suppose?

Perhaps Pop the role model as well

[TTNN]

I'm more impressed with this split:

RHJ Drives:

Oct, Nov: 24 min/game, 4.9 drives per game, finish at 27.6% FG%

Dec: 20.7 min/game, 3.7 drives per game, finish at 46.7%

Jan: 18.9 min/game, 4.2 drives per game, finish at 52.4%

I think this is the biggest improvement of RHJ, and was the focus for him during the first half of the season. My feeling is that each player has their own focus and their own goal of development, this one is very obvious.

This is one where the eyeball test could have told the same story, he's really cleaned up a lot of the mistakes (he attacks at better angles instead straight into 2 or more defenders) and his handle looks tighter as each game goes on. Very encouraging

Yeah, of course. In theory, eyeball test should always go along with stats. If they don't, the only reasons are: 1) the eyeball test is not objective, and 2) wrong stats was used.

And that's exactly how I figure out this split. I was very frustrated with RHJ at the beginning of the season with his finish close to the rim, but he was able to drive in at will. At first I see him don't have a shot, so I think he should drive more and cut more. But after I saw his driving FG%, I was disappointed.

Later into the season, I notice he finish better, and sure the numbers support it. So I have been following this for a while now. Obviously started from eye test.

BTW, this split is one of the reasons I think coach KA is not playing for the win, and he might not really trying to develop the team chemistry or the whole team play at this stage. I feel he is putting player individual skill development in front of team development at this stage. Thus it is very frustrating for fans to look at the game, as certain players are doing seemingly stupid moves all the time, and coach is not stopping them. Maybe coach don't really care about win or lose, or a lineup is loosing too many points, but he want certain player to focus on certain things. e.g. RHJ to focus on finishing when he drive.

[TTNN]

Since we are on this topic, might as well talk a bit more about RHJ.

RHJ has a pretty ugly drive, I mean visually, he has this unorthodox moves, that is really hard to predict what his next move is, I doubted RHJ himself might not even know, for a period of time, I feel he always drive to the rim, and shoot the ball on his way falling to the floor while fighting to gain his balance, throwing his arms and legs in all sorts of direction at the same time, which is hilarious. So it is really hard to defend him, as one really could not predict which direction he is moving his limbs, so he draw a ton of fouls that way.

So I checked his PFD%, (percentage of personal foul drawn), and yep, he is on the top3-4 on this team, behind Lin and Lopez.

This is a good trait of him. I always think one don't really need to have a good range to stretch the floor, if a player is really good at drive and cut and off ball movement, the defenders still could not leave that person alone, and have to stick with that person. So a player could still stretch the floor if he has an offensive threat and constantly moving, like Wade.

The other good trait of RHJ is his vision, his passing is not there yet, but he could see the floor much better than Sean, and better than Whitehead. I think in the beginning of the season, coach put him in P&R, but he wasn't good at it. But out of that, he has the vision, just not the pass yet.

So I think RHJ with some development, should fit KA's system, since he has those good traits that's hard to learn, but his skill still needs development, which is much easier to work with as long as people have patience. So I don't see KA want to trade him, yet.

On the other hand, Sean Kilpatrick is a different story, he is missing something that's much harder to develop. e.g. he doesn't have the vision to pass, he doesn't have the drive to play defense, when he drive in, he looks for foul call more than look for contact and finish, he actually is scared of contact, thus he doesn't drive as strong, thus could not finish strong. That said, in a vacuum, he is still a useful player, because if you give him the ball, he could change the flow of the game, he could work as a microwave as a scorer. But he really should not close games, his clutch stats are horrible.

[antique0o0]

http://stats.nba.com/players/drives/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612751&sort=DRIVES&dir=1&DateFrom=01%2F01%2F2017&DateTo=01%2F31%2F2017
If you split the data by month, I would say the sample size is pretty small. He played 14 games last month, and that's the largest sample size.
In Nov, his field goal off drives was 0.9/3.1, 5.4 drives per game on average.
In Dec, those numbers were 1.0/2.1, 3.7.
In this month, those numbers are 0.9/1.9, 4.3.
His feild goal attempt decreases month by month, at the first sight, I would say he's forcing it less and less. However after I looked at his free throw scores, it might become he's still forcing it but becomes better at drawing fouls.
It barely speaks for his finish ability improvement. More like getting better at drawing fouls.

[TTNN]

http://stats.nba.com/players/drives/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612751&sort=DRIVES&dir=1&DateFrom=01%2F01%2F2017&DateTo=01%2F31%2F2017
If you split the data by month, I would say the sample size is pretty small. He played 14 games last month, and that's the largest sample size.
In Nov, his field goal off drives was 0.9/3.1, 5.4 drives per game on average.
In Dec, those numbers were 1.0/2.1, 3.7.
In this month, those numbers are 0.9/1.9, 4.3.
His feild goal attempt decreases month by month, at the first sight, I would say he's forcing it less and less. However after I looked at his free throw scores, it might become he's still forcing it but becomes better at drawing fouls.
It barely speaks for his finish ability improvement. More like getting better at drawing fouls.

You realized that we are talking about FGA of one person, per game, one type of play, right? No one will have a large sample. But when you talking about one month, with ~2 FGA out of drive, that's roughly 20-30 FGA out of drive in a month, and FG% is a direct indication of how good one finish there, and with that much FG% change, how that "barely speaks for his finish ability"? With that time split, he had very similar FTA out of drive though, he always pretty good in drawing fouls.

BTW, talking about finish, if you look at his FG% split in restricted area, equally impressive:
Nov 29.7%
Dec 53.4%
Jan 61.5%

Although most of those FGA in the restricted area was coming out of drive, thus this split is no surprise/consistent with the drive FG%.

But according to your standard, small sample size again if you look at per game FGA anyway, LOL.

[antique0o0]

http://stats.nba.com/players/drives/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612751&sort=DRIVES&dir=1&DateFrom=01%2F01%2F2017&DateTo=01%2F31%2F2017
If you split the data by month, I would say the sample size is pretty small. He played 14 games last month, and that's the largest sample size.
In Nov, his field goal off drives was 0.9/3.1, 5.4 drives per game on average.
In Dec, those numbers were 1.0/2.1, 3.7.
In this month, those numbers are 0.9/1.9, 4.3.
His feild goal attempt decreases month by month, at the first sight, I would say he's forcing it less and less. However after I looked at his free throw scores, it might become he's still forcing it but becomes better at drawing fouls.
It barely speaks for his finish ability improvement. More like getting better at drawing fouls.

You realized that we are talking about FGA of one person, per game, one type of play, right? No one will have a large sample. But when you talking about one month, with ~2 FGA out of drive, that's roughly 20-30 FGA out of drive in a month, and FG% is a direct indication of how good one finish there, and with that much FG% change, how that "barely speaks for his finish ability"? With that time split, he had very similar FTA out of drive though, he always pretty good in drawing fouls.

BTW, talking about finish, if you look at his FG% split in restricted area, equally impressive:
Nov 29.7%
Dec 53.4%
Jan 61.5%

Although most of those FGA in the restricted area was coming out of drive, thus this split is no surprise/consistent with the drive FG%.

But according to your standard, small sample size again if you look at per game FGA anyway, LOL.

You're right about his free throw attempts. It basically stays stable.
However, his pass percentage this month is 27.7 which is much higher than Nov ( 18.6 )and Dec (17.3). And his AST% (percent of team's assists) is 0.0 in Nov, 1.9 in Dec, 6.4 in this month.
His TOV% (percent of team's turnovers) is 4.7 in Nov, 5.8 in Dec, and 10.6 in this month.
I wouldn't say he's finishing better now. He scores 3.5, 3.0, and 3.6 off drive in Nov, Dec, and this month separately, not much difference.
I would say he's trying to find better shots, and he's trying to pass more. Atkinson might persuade him not to force so much.
The turnover still hurts him.
Again the sample size is really small.

[ChokeFasncists]

I'd imagine his TS% has improved as well, as so many of his drives have ended up with him at the line.

One reason for his improvement in driving is probably the switch from playing starting SF to playing backup PF. His skill is probably not up to par for a swing man but his quickness is a big advantage against bigs.

If his shot doesn't get there, PF would likely be his future position.

[NyCeEvO]

Did the Nets invite all of the reporters in for the same tour on one day?

Here's Chris Mannix's piece on the Nets: Kenny Atkinson: 'I really believe that I have to pay my dues, and it's great'

Signs of progress, Atkinson says, are there. LeVert, who didn’t make his debut until early December, looks like a long-term starter. Sean Kilpatrick, an undrafted free agent signed at the end of last season, has developed into a solid scorer. Joe Harris, a former second-round pick, has become a steady rotation player. Atkinson says he is on the hunt for the next Paul Millsap or Kent Bazemore, unheralded players who developed into established starters.

“We’ve only touched the beginnings of this, and it’s going to take time, but I’d like to see what Caris looks like in two years, what Joe Harris looks like in two years; what Justin [Hamilton], even though he’s a little older, what can he be as he gets more comfortable with the system,” Atkinson said. “I believe so much in development, and I believe that guys can improve, and so I just throw myself into it. When you’re in it every day and you’re like, ‘Man, this guy can be better than people think. This guy can be better than that,’ that’s really what drives you every day. And you know in the back of your mind, ‘Can Joe Harris eventually be a starter or rotation player in this league?’ It pushes you.”

“Sean and I knew this wasn’t going to be an easy task. We needed guys that were going to be able to keep pushing through and guys with high character that, despite the won-loss record, they’re going to come in here with a smile on their face and keep working their tails off, and that’s exactly what we’ve gotten from one to 15. The positive attitude helps you get through. I use the word spirit a lot, because it’s such an important word to me. A negative spirit, you feel it when you walk in a gym or a film session. I have rarely felt that here. We push these guys pretty hard, but everyone wants to be coached, accepts coaching. That attitude, that work ethic, that’s eventually going to pay off.”

[MrDollarBills]

^^^and none of that is false, because it's March and guys are still out there playing hard.

[Paradise]

^^^and none of that is false, because it's March and guys are still out there playing hard.

I honestly didn't even realize we only have a month left. I haven't seen a drop off of competitive spirit. The last time I can recall the Nets were effortless this season was that game in Washington when Trey Burke looked like Damien Lillard and granted it was a back to back after Lin went down the night before.

Kenny really puts his heart and soul into keeping these guys motivated. Best coaching prospect we've had in 10 Years.


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[MrDollarBills]

It also comes down to guys who also fit what kind of players you want coming through here. If you had ass clowns on this roster, the story might entirely be different

[spaceballer]

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[jbeachboy]

the defense has been disappointing from atkinson, i was expecting more.