ImageImageImageImageImage

Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread

Moderators: NyCeEvO, Rich Rane

User avatar
Lamak
Analyst
Posts: 3,606
And1: 552
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
   

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1261 » by Lamak » Sun Dec 8, 2019 10:46 pm

Jarret Allen is balling right now and I love the small improvements in his game, thought he would be shooting atleast a 3 a game by now though
Brooklyn Nets
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 12,856
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1262 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Dec 9, 2019 3:56 am

Averaging a double double with a PER of 22. This kid is solid.
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 14,633
And1: 571
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1263 » by ecuhus1981 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:32 pm

<bump>

Every time I get wrapped around the axle with Jarrett Allen's limitations, he does something to remind me of how special he is. If you compare his 3rd year or age-21 seasons to those of other top bigmen, his impact on winning (ON/OFF rating, +/-, PER, win shares) is comparable with the best. He cannot stretch the floor like Embiid or Towns, he can't bang or make plays like Adebayo and Jokic, and he can't protect the rim like Gobert or Capela. He has his own low-usage, high-efficiency lane, and he does it very well.

I'm more OK with him as our franchise cornerstone than I've ever been. He may still upset me with his timid style, as he did on Friday (0 shots in 37 minutes? on a team completely devoid of options? And you want an extension???). Still, we're super lucky he fell to us in 2017, and I hope we keep him for a long time.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 12,856
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1264 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:05 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:<bump>

Every time I get wrapped around the axle with Jarrett Allen's limitations, he does something to remind me of how special he is. If you compare his 3rd year or age-21 seasons to those of other top bigmen, his impact on winning (ON/OFF rating, +/-, PER, win shares) is comparable with the best. He cannot stretch the floor like Embiid or Towns, he can't bang or make plays like Adebayo and Jokic, and he can't protect the rim like Gobert or Capela. He has his own low-usage, high-efficiency lane, and he does it very well.

I'm more OK with him as our franchise cornerstone than I've ever been. He may still upset me with his timid style, as he did on Friday (0 shots in 37 minutes? on a team completely devoid of options? And you want an extension???). Still, we're super lucky he fell to us in 2017, and I hope we keep him for a long time.


The Raptors packed the paint and were daring the Nets to shoot, thereby nullifying Allen's roll game and stifling Caris LeVert. Did you watch the game?
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 14,633
And1: 571
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1265 » by ecuhus1981 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:38 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:<bump>

Every time I get wrapped around the axle with Jarrett Allen's limitations, he does something to remind me of how special he is. If you compare his 3rd year or age-21 seasons to those of other top bigmen, his impact on winning (ON/OFF rating, +/-, PER, win shares) is comparable with the best. He cannot stretch the floor like Embiid or Towns, he can't bang or make plays like Adebayo and Jokic, and he can't protect the rim like Gobert or Capela. He has his own low-usage, high-efficiency lane, and he does it very well.

I'm more OK with him as our franchise cornerstone than I've ever been. He may still upset me with his timid style, as he did on Friday (0 shots in 37 minutes? on a team completely devoid of options? And you want an extension???). Still, we're super lucky he fell to us in 2017, and I hope we keep him for a long time.


The Raptors packed the paint and were daring the Nets to shoot, thereby nullifying Allen's roll game and stifling Caris LeVert. Did you watch the game?

Yes, I did. And I'm not asking him to take 15 shots, at least not against that specific defensive scheme. But ask yourself this: what other elite center can you think of that if you inserted them into our current lineup, would not take a single shot? Believe believe me, imma deep stats truther, I don't need empty buckets to prove you're worth to me. But at some point if you're Jarrett, even if it's not your greatest strength, you have to look at yourself, look at your roster full of D-League castaways, and say "it's not going to happen unless I do something".

I would have rather seen him go 0-6 than 0-0, I think it would have done more to dissuade Toronto from packing the paint and would have allowed our shooters a better opportunity. Now, it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game, and our shooters were getting good looks regardless. As someone about to receive a four-year, 70 million-dollar extension, I would feel a lot better if I could see him willing to step outside of his comfort zone and assert his will in extreme situations. It doesn't get much more extreme than right now, and we may never need it again, but for me it would be nice to know.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
CalamityX12
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 12,415
And1: 1,389
Joined: Mar 15, 2012
         

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1266 » by CalamityX12 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:41 pm

Is 4 for $70m a good deal?

I enjoy Allen but I’m also not favoring breaking the bank on him nor exclude him from big trades yet
The ModFather

My sports teams are currently experiencing suckiness. Please pardon the mess.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 12,856
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1267 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:53 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:<bump>

Every time I get wrapped around the axle with Jarrett Allen's limitations, he does something to remind me of how special he is. If you compare his 3rd year or age-21 seasons to those of other top bigmen, his impact on winning (ON/OFF rating, +/-, PER, win shares) is comparable with the best. He cannot stretch the floor like Embiid or Towns, he can't bang or make plays like Adebayo and Jokic, and he can't protect the rim like Gobert or Capela. He has his own low-usage, high-efficiency lane, and he does it very well.

I'm more OK with him as our franchise cornerstone than I've ever been. He may still upset me with his timid style, as he did on Friday (0 shots in 37 minutes? on a team completely devoid of options? And you want an extension???). Still, we're super lucky he fell to us in 2017, and I hope we keep him for a long time.


The Raptors packed the paint and were daring the Nets to shoot, thereby nullifying Allen's roll game and stifling Caris LeVert. Did you watch the game?

Yes, I did. And I'm not asking him to take 15 shots, at least not against that specific defensive scheme. But ask yourself this: what other elite center can you think of that if you inserted them into our current lineup, would not take a single shot? Believe believe me, imma deep stats truther, I don't need empty buckets to prove you're worth to me. But at some point if you're Jarrett, even if it's not your greatest strength, you have to look at yourself, look at your roster full of D-League castaways, and say "it's not going to happen unless I do something".

I would have rather seen him go 0-6 than 0-0, I think it would have done more to dissuade Toronto from packing the paint and would have allowed our shooters a better opportunity. Now, it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game, and our shooters were getting good looks regardless. As someone about to receive a four-year, 70 million-dollar extension, I would feel a lot better if I could see him willing to step outside of his comfort zone and assert his will in extreme situations. It doesn't get much more extreme than right now, and we may never need it again, but for me it would be nice to know.


First of all, Allen is not anywhere near an elite center. He's only 22 years old. 2nd, his game isn't the type where you want him forcing up shots especially when there was literally nothing there.

Allen's biggest strengths are playing with the flow of the offense and exploiting openings created by the screens and penetration from ball handlers. I don't want him forcing shots that he usually doesn't take, it's counter productive and doesn't really prove anything.

I'll take the 17 rebounds. Generating individual offense isn't his job.
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 14,633
And1: 571
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1268 » by ecuhus1981 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:44 pm

"Isn't his job" went out the window 3 bodies ago. It isn't Tyler Johnson's job to score 20 and guard the best perimeter player, it isn't TLC's job to throw in 25 and guard their best big man.

Everyone is playing two to three roles above their optimum ability at this moment, we don't need to treat Jarrett any differently about this. He's one of the veterans of this team by now, and he's got to take the lead even if it's not his natural inclination or skill set.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 12,856
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1269 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:04 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:"Isn't his job" went out the window 3 bodies ago. It isn't Tyler Johnson's job to score 20 and guard the best perimeter player, it isn't TLC's job to throw in 25 and guard their best big man.

Everyone is playing two to three roles above their optimum ability at this moment, we don't need to treat Jarrett any differently about this. He's one of the veterans of this team by now, and he's got to take the lead even if it's not his natural inclination or skill set.


So you wanted him to take the ball and go 1 versus 4 in the paint? Did you see what Toronto was running defensively? They had multiple bodies in the paint at all times to keep Allen and LeVert from scoring. The interior was packed and the Nets weren't shooting well enough to force Toronto out of that defensive set.

I'm sorry, this is coming off as irrational. What did you expect him to do? Specifically. Did you want him to start jacking up threes? Taking people off the dribble?
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 14,633
And1: 571
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1270 » by ecuhus1981 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:30 pm

Jarrett's a big boy. He knows how to call for the ball, he knows how to flash the high post, he knows how to free himself for scoring opportunities. Toronto successfully rented space in his head, and he wasn't interested in challenging them in the paint. Do you think the Toronto has blanked any other above-average center this season? I'll bet you they haven't. We need to start holding Allen the standard of his potential, and of his peers.

That said, as I mentioned before, I'm very proud of JA's growth this season, and especially of his performance in the bubble overall. It's okay for me to be dissatisfied with some aspects of his game, I feel like we're walking on egg shells unless we speak the truth about our players, good bad and indifferent.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 12,856
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1271 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:59 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:Jarrett's a big boy. He knows how to call for the ball, he knows how to flash the high post, he knows how to free himself for scoring opportunities. Toronto successfully rented space in his head, and he wasn't interested in challenging them in the paint. Do you think the Toronto has blanked any other above-average center this season? I'll bet you they haven't. We need to start holding Allen the standard of his potential, and of his peers.

That said, as I mentioned before, I'm very proud of JA's growth this season, and especially of his performance in the bubble overall. It's okay for me to be dissatisfied with some aspects of his game, I feel like we're walking on egg shells unless we speak the truth about our players, good bad and indifferent.


nah, if Jarrett played like crap I'd call him out on it. I thought he played well all things considered. 10pts 15reb 2asts 2blks per game versus Toronto. I'm not going to hold one game where he scored 4 points against him when he hauled down 17 rebounds in that same contest. I don't think they got in his head at all because any time he had a clear shot at the rim he went for it. He wasn't out there playing scared, he was one of the best players on the team pretty much in all 4 games and also the seeding games.

You want Allen to call for the ball and do what exactly though? Post Marc Gasol up while two other guys are waiting there to swarm him? Everything that you're saying isn't dealing with the fact that Nick Nurse took away what the Nets like to do with Jarrett Allen and forced us into having to shoot threes with G league players. You can't expect a big who generates offense on rolling to the rim, offensive rebounding and catch and finish plays to suddenly start going ISO when there are 3-4 guys in the paint at all times. That's a turnover waiting to happen.

Next season, when Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving are out there, along with the rest of our roster...you know, real NBA players...Jarrett Allen will be sleep walking his way into multiple double double nights. I'm not concerned in the slightest about 1 playoff game where his teammates couldn't get him the ball.
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 14,633
And1: 571
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1272 » by ecuhus1981 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:25 pm

^
That's completely fair, I appreciate your dissenting opinion. As I mentioned, Jarrett is a special player, I can admit there's far more good than bad.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 12,856
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1273 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:37 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:^
That's completely fair, I appreciate your dissenting opinion. As I mentioned, Jarrett is a special player, I can admit there's far more good than bad.


I mean, by no means do I think he or the Nets should be satisfied where he is right now. He has a lot of ceiling room to get better. We need to see him develop a hook shot, and he needs to start taking jumpers from around the FT line. Also, let's not forget that he has shown the ability to hit 3 pointers. He needs to become comfortable taking those shots.
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like
User avatar
Claud
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,681
And1: 590
Joined: May 16, 2015
Location: Austin, TX
   

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1274 » by Claud » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:59 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:^
That's completely fair, I appreciate your dissenting opinion. As I mentioned, Jarrett is a special player, I can admit there's far more good than bad.


I mean, by no means do I think he or the Nets should be satisfied where he is right now. He has a lot of ceiling room to get better. We need to see him develop a hook shot, and he needs to start taking jumpers from around the FT line. Also, let's not forget that he has shown the ability to hit 3 pointers. He needs to become comfortable taking those shots.


I feel like his rebounding and overal defense improved this season.

His offense is still basic but effective as you have described.

I would love for the Fro to become slightly more aggresive on offense, work on his midrange, free throws, etc.

He has good shooting mechanics, it's just about repetition and confidence as he gets older. He's barely turned 22.

Considering he was picked 22 in the draft, he's been a value pick for us.

Unless KD and Kyrie come with their bull, there's no questin Allen should start over DJ.
User avatar
vincecarter4pres
RealGM
Posts: 48,774
And1: 2,408
Joined: May 30, 2005
Location: New Jeruz
Contact:
     

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1275 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:02 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:Is 4 for $70m a good deal?

I enjoy Allen but I’m also not favoring breaking the bank on him nor exclude him from big trades yet

Even if Allen doesn't really improve a lick, he's an above average, modern starting 5. 4/70 is perfectly fine imho.
Image
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
User avatar
3pt_chucker
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,221
And1: 702
Joined: Apr 23, 2013
Location: Practicing my 3's
       

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1276 » by 3pt_chucker » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:22 pm

I'm happy with some of the growth I've seen in the bubble. I think by now we can say he's just not wired to truly be an elite center. Like he showed he *can* make a FT line jumper. He actually has a decent hook/baby hook that he actually hit with good frequency. There were times where he grabbed a rebound and immediately look to pass even tho he could've easily get his own shot off.

I did like that he wasn't afraid to have a bit of nasty and really fight for rebounds/hustle plays that he usually wouldn't embrace. Like last season/early this season, he was still a bit meek and would let other centers bully him. Something clearly changed and now he's much better at having an edge.

Thinking about it, he actually fits with a roster full of ball dominant players, since he seems content to stay in his lane and be 100% happy to play max effort defense, rebound and feed off offensive scraps/lobs. Barring trades, b/ween KD,Kyrie,Caris,Din that's a lot if usage, so it's perfect that he has no ego about this. (ex Capela felt like he was better than he actually was in HOU.) Like we already have problems getting Joe more shots :lol:

TLDR:
Like what I've seen in the bubble. 4/70 is great and fits his talent/ceiling/fit on the team
Yearning for more 3's
CalamityX12
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 12,415
And1: 1,389
Joined: Mar 15, 2012
         

Re: Soul Glo, the Afro Samurai - The Jarrett Allen Thread 

Post#1277 » by CalamityX12 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:07 am

3pt_chucker wrote:I'm happy with some of the growth I've seen in the bubble. I think by now we can say he's just not wired to truly be an elite center. Like he showed he *can* make a FT line jumper. He actually has a decent hook/baby hook that he actually hit with good frequency. There were times where he grabbed a rebound and immediately look to pass even tho he could've easily get his own shot off.

I did like that he wasn't afraid to have a bit of nasty and really fight for rebounds/hustle plays that he usually wouldn't embrace. Like last season/early this season, he was still a bit meek and would let other centers bully him. Something clearly changed and now he's much better at having an edge.

Thinking about it, he actually fits with a roster full of ball dominant players, since he seems content to stay in his lane and be 100% happy to play max effort defense, rebound and feed off offensive scraps/lobs. Barring trades, b/ween KD,Kyrie,Caris,Din that's a lot if usage, so it's perfect that he has no ego about this. (ex Capela felt like he was better than he actually was in HOU.) Like we already have problems getting Joe more shots :lol:

TLDR:
Like what I've seen in the bubble. 4/70 is great and fits his talent/ceiling/fit on the team


Very very good point and observation. Allen’s game is very well suited for the more dominant players like DeAndre in the past(and current)
The ModFather

My sports teams are currently experiencing suckiness. Please pardon the mess.

Return to Brooklyn Nets