The Official Lin Net Thread III

[MrDollarBills]

SI

JEREMY LIN, NETS
While slightly miscast (though not altogether unqualified) as a starter for the Nets, Lin added to an already sturdy body of work last season. The book is out on Lin. Teams know when to make him shoot and how to apply pressure—areas of Lin’s game where he is prone to mistakes. Still he dashes his way through pick-and-rolls, first putting a defender on their heels and then pushing past them. There is always a use for a creator of Lin’s talents. Better balanced teams than Brooklyn have shown that even moderate spacing can give Lin critical breathing room on his drives to the basket. And every year he learns more about what makes him effective and how to best leverage it. Lin has never been more productive on a per-minute basis than he was in the 36 games he played for the Nets last season—his supernova stint with the Knicks included. This could be a big year for Lin’s future Top 100 candidacy. — RM

SI can never get over wanting Lin to be a back up PG ... .

Swear to god, Lin's mistakes are imo due to fatigue because i notice they happen late in the 4th. he needs to pace himself.

I don't know how he was "miscast" when he was the 2nd best player on the team last season and gave us a massive boost when he returned.

And the thing about his shooting...what was this guy watching? Lin was knocking down bombs last season at a 37% clip in an offense that features 3 point shooting at high volumes. These writers need to actually watch our players for more than 5 minutes before sending out these write ups to their editors.

they can keep hating this team all they want, or trying to slight Lin like they guy can't flat out ball.

The attitudes will change fast when the carpet bombing begins.

According to SI, The whole team of the Nets should be relegated to the bench.

Top 10 misunderstanding of Jeremy Lin:

1) He can only excels in P'n'Rs.

2) He can't play defense.

3) He can't go left.

4) He can't dribble in traffic.

5) He can't shoot.

6) He is too inconsistent.

7) He is better suited as a back-up.

8) He is immensely overrated by casual fans and being overpaid.

9) He is deceptive quick.

10) His bb-IQ is relative low.

Bonus: He is injury-prone and he eats Beijing duck and chow-mien every night.

Conclusion: The attitudes on Lin will NOT change a bit until he averages 20+/6+ and actually play like an All-Star.

People actually need to watch the guy play. all of those points are false. I will say that his biggest flaw is being prone to late game errors with the ball, which I again chalk up to fatigue leading to mental errors and not a lack of bball IQ. I was taken aback at how hard he plays defensively and then turns right around and goes full speed into traffic on offense. no plays off. i think he might want to pace himself a bit better, if anything.

even when he's having a rough night efficiency wise he still makes plays, still hustles on every possession. people need to watch the games and not rely on b.s. to discredit this guy.

[bws94]

I look for Lin to cut down on mental errors in the game, especially later in games. I also would like to see a little better handling himself under full-court pressure and maybe expanding his court vision some when not dribble-penetrating. That's what is expected of vets Lin's age and hopefully, Lin watches a lot of tape, and improves in these areas.

Perceptions of what Lin can or can't do are just rehash at this point. A lot of players aren't watched by local broadcasting or even national guys so they go by old info. Happens with Lin, but not only Lin.

[13th Man]

I'm a big Lin fan but can also be one of his harshest critics. Imo, he has a history of cracking under high pressure (confidence issues) but he has gradually gotten better as he's gained more experience. Last year he gained confidence as a true starter, this year I hope that he becomes truly comfortable in the role as a leader and will play with almost the same level of confidence throughout the game.

Every player will experience gitters especially in crunch time, but the great players will relish these moments and not let their nerves get the better of them. Being courageous and not being afraid to take the big shots is one thing but actually having ice in your veins is another. By having ice veins, I don't mean that he has to go hero-mode for late game heroics, but rather his decision making ability and play mechanics in the crunch is similar to any other point in the game. So basically maintaining good composure in crucial situations is what I'm getting at. I'm looking and even expecting for Lin to improve on that aspect this year.

[ChokeFasncists]

His biggest flaw has probably been making mistakes (TOs) in general. Most of it was from thinking too much ahead and about what he wants to do; not taking the defense into account enough.

He went about fixing that two years ago by playing conservative, I guess it's harder to play conservative with the clock winding down.

Defenses are tighter in crunch time, maybe that's one reason it's worse. He's pretty clutch otherwise.

He just needs to stay healthy, gets more experience, try things out and watch more films.

Should have done that after Linsanity, too bad opportunities weren't there and coaches weren't good until two years ago.

[Lorenzomax7]

Swear to god, Lin's mistakes are imo due to fatigue because i notice they happen late in the 4th. he needs to pace himself.

I don't know how he was "miscast" when he was the 2nd best player on the team last season and gave us a massive boost when he returned.

And the thing about his shooting...what was this guy watching? Lin was knocking down bombs last season at a 37% clip in an offense that features 3 point shooting at high volumes. These writers need to actually watch our players for more than 5 minutes before sending out these write ups to their editors.

they can keep hating this team all they want, or trying to slight Lin like they guy can't flat out ball.

The attitudes will change fast when the carpet bombing begins.

According to SI, The whole team of the Nets should be relegated to the bench.

Top 10 misunderstanding of Jeremy Lin:

1) He can only excels in P'n'Rs.

2) He can't play defense.

3) He can't go left.

4) He can't dribble in traffic.

5) He can't shoot.

6) He is too inconsistent.

7) He is better suited as a back-up.

8) He is immensely overrated by casual fans and being overpaid.

9) He is deceptive quick.

10) His bb-IQ is relative low.

Bonus: He is injury-prone and he eats Beijing duck and chow-mien every night.

Conclusion: The attitudes on Lin will NOT change a bit until he averages 20+/6+ and actually play like an All-Star.

People actually need to watch the guy play. all of those points are false. I will say that his biggest flaw is being prone to late game errors with the ball, which I again chalk up to fatigue leading to mental errors and not a lack of bball IQ. I was taken aback at how hard he plays defensively and then turns right around and goes full speed into traffic on offense. no plays off. i think he might want to pace himself a bit better, if anything.

even when he's having a rough night efficiency wise he still makes plays, still hustles on every possession. people need to watch the games and not rely on b.s. to discredit this guy.

well.. even his late game turnover rate is quite decent.

[Lorenzomax7]

I think he rarely turned the ball over in crucial moments. Maybe you guys exaggerated it a lil bit... since one turnover in those final possessions could mean much and his TOV% in the 4th quarter/Clutch time is relative low.

I do agree he turns the ball over quite a lot in general... but I don't think he is thinking too much as a ball-handler in recent years.. he just pushes himself on an unbearable hard way. Just like MrDollarBills said, it's more about his fatigue than mental stuff.

[TTNN]

I'm a big Lin fan but can also be one of his harshest critics. Imo, he has a history of cracking under high pressure (confidence issues) but he has gradually gotten better as he's gained more experience. Last year he gained confidence as a true starter, this year I hope that he becomes truly comfortable in the role as a leader and will play with almost the same level of confidence throughout the game.

Every player will experience gitters especially in crunch time, but the great players will relish these moments and not let their nerves get the better of them. Being courageous and not being afraid to take the big shots is one thing but actually having ice in your veins is another. By having ice veins, I don't mean that he has to go hero-mode for late game heroics, but rather his decision making ability and play mechanics in the crunch is similar to any other point in the game. So basically maintaining good composure in crucial situations is what I'm getting at. I'm looking and even expecting for Lin to improve on that aspect this year.

Interesting perceptions of players. Especially about their clutch play, or referred as "cracking under pressure".

D'Lo is well known about his "ice in the veins" performance. So even people accept that he might not be an efficient player yet, but no one denies him a clutch player. In contrast, even though Lin had plenty of great late game performance ever since his Linsanity days, he was still labeled as "has a history of cracking under high pressure" or concerned about his turnover in late games.

So I pulled out the stats last season and compared Lin and D'Lo for their all-season performance and compare that to their clutch time performance shown in the following table, these numbers are all per 100 possessions numbers.



So Lin was shooting at 45% FG, 50% 3pts, and 100% FT in the clutch situation and D'Lo is 29.3% FG and 16.7% 3pts, and with a significant decrease of +/-.

Somehow with Lin, the perception just could not put together with numbers. (Maybe that's why a lot of people hate Lin fans bring out stats because sometimes it just beyond ridiculous.)

[TTNN]

Since we are talking about perceptions about Lin's performance, I'd also like to leave this here.

in NBA2K Lin was assigned an F in internal defense



However, if you look defense dashboard under 6ft, Lin was ranked top 10% in guards. He is 5th out of 54 qualified guards.



and if expand that to <10 ft, Lin ranked top 5% in guards. He is 6th out of 124 guards.

[bws94]

Looking at the stats, Lin is fine in the clutch, but should cut down on TOs. But his steals are up there so he causes the other team TOs as well and draws fouls (is that in the stats, how many fouls Lin draws in the clutch?) Overall stats show he's a strong clutch performer. I think if Lin cuts down on TOs in the clutch, it'll take his game to the next level. Russell has more areas to improve in his clutch play than Lin but he's a lot less experienced. DRuss is a developing player, so hopefully these stats will improve. I think in terms of attitude, both guys have an attitude of looking to make clutch plays and shots. But Lin looks more on the defensive, gritty side more.

[MrDollarBills]

I didn't mean to make the errors a bigger issue than it is. It's not. I can live with mistakes because the effort outweighs it.

You guys seriously have no clue how enjoyable it is to have a guy like Lin here after the last few years. That's why I was baffled as to why people were coming down hard on him after he had poor shooting nights.

And the NBA 2k18 rating pretty much says that they don't really research the players before they decide rankings.

[FlipFlopShot]

I don't believe this confidence narrative with Lin. Like what Mr.DB said his weakness really does come down to pacing. Maybe not slowing down his pace, but to not have such a large discrepancy between turning up and cruising. This maybe due to his lack of stamina, but I think it has more to do with inconsistent roles throughout his career. I've always seen this kid as a clutch player. A 12 and 4 player can't just consistently find himself on dark horse teams with highlight games with himself as a large contributing factor.

Mr. Fourth Quarter just needs to stop cruising until the game is on the line and start playing like a leading role player. It'll be less of a shock to his body and prevent these weakass hammy injuries.

[Roy Tarpley]

I'm not sure if there is a more underrated G in the NBA. Which is exactly the type of player Marks and the Nets need.

[TTNN]

I didn't mean to make the errors a bigger issue than it is. It's not. I can live with mistakes because the effort outweighs it.

You guys seriously have no clue how enjoyable it is to have a guy like Lin here after the last few years. That's why I was baffled as to why people were coming down hard on him after he had poor shooting nights.

And the NBA 2k18 rating pretty much says that they don't really research the players before they decide rankings.

I agree, a 2:1 ratio of assist to TOV is not that bad.

Also if Lin gets calls from ref he will get a bit better with his TOV, there are times he got whacked and lost the ball, but not get a whistle, those become TOVs.

[TinmanZBoy]

Lin actually is one of the more clutch players in the league... always is...
and he is one of the best guards defending the paint... always is...

[13th Man]

I'm a big Lin fan but can also be one of his harshest critics. Imo, he has a history of cracking under high pressure (confidence issues) but he has gradually gotten better as he's gained more experience. Last year he gained confidence as a true starter, this year I hope that he becomes truly comfortable in the role as a leader and will play with almost the same level of confidence throughout the game.

Every player will experience gitters especially in crunch time, but the great players will relish these moments and not let their nerves get the better of them. Being courageous and not being afraid to take the big shots is one thing but actually having ice in your veins is another. By having ice veins, I don't mean that he has to go hero-mode for late game heroics, but rather his decision making ability and play mechanics in the crunch is similar to any other point in the game. So basically maintaining good composure in crucial situations is what I'm getting at. I'm looking and even expecting for Lin to improve on that aspect this year.

Interesting perceptions of players. Especially about their clutch play, or referred as "cracking under pressure".

D'Lo is well known about his "ice in the veins" performance. So even people accept that he might not be an efficient player yet, but no one denies him a clutch player. In contrast, even though Lin had plenty of great late game performance ever since his Linsanity days, he was still labeled as "has a history of cracking under high pressure" or concerned about his turnover in late games.

So I pulled out the stats last season and compared Lin and D'Lo for their all-season performance and compare that to their clutch time performance shown in the following table, these numbers are all per 100 possessions numbers.



So Lin was shooting at 45% FG, 50% 3pts, and 100% FT in the clutch situation and D'Lo is 29.3% FG and 16.7% 3pts, and with a significant decrease of +/-.

Somehow with Lin, the perception just could not put together with numbers. (Maybe that's why a lot of people hate Lin fans bring out stats because sometimes it just beyond ridiculous.)

I appreciate you digging out those numbers, they do not lie. I probably should have clarified my point and what I meant by high pressure situations. These are the big games that matter including playoff games. i.e. Game 6 of Hornets/Heat. Because Brooklyn was the last place team in the league, he didn't have many high-pressure situations to deal with. He has gotten better in clutch situations the past couple of years but what I really want to see from him is having complete composure in the big games and moments. I believe he will can get to that level this year, I think he's finally comfortable with where he is in the NBA.

[ChokeFasncists]

^
That game 6 he was probably real tired, after carrying the team to three straight tough wins. It was the fourth game in 7 nights. He had to play straight thru a lot of minutes with no rest. It didn't help that he sprained his ankle the previous game.

One bad game, he did bounce back and play well the next game, but unfortunately free agency was more important to the franchise

[Lorenzomax7]

Looking at the stats, Lin is fine in the clutch, but should cut down on TOs. But his steals are up there so he causes the other team TOs as well and draws fouls (is that in the stats, how many fouls Lin draws in the clutch?) Overall stats show he's a strong clutch performer. I think if Lin cuts down on TOs in the clutch, it'll take his game to the next level. Russell has more areas to improve in his clutch play than Lin but he's a lot less experienced. DRuss is a developing player, so hopefully these stats will improve. I think in terms of attitude, both guys have an attitude of looking to make clutch plays and shots. But Lin looks more on the defensive, gritty side more.

Again, his TO Ratio in the clutch time is relative LOOOOOOOOOW.


Don't make me believe you are one of the biased Rockets fans, do you?

TO Ratio / AST%

Austin Rivers, 22.4 / 9.7
Manu Ginobili, 16.4 / 28.9
T.J. McConnell 14.4 / 32.7
Schroder, 13.5 / 38.3
Lin, 13.1 / 37.0
Holiday, 13.1 / 39.4
Rubio, 12.8 / 41.1
CP3, 12.1 / 50.0
Lillard, 11.5 / 17.8
Harden, 11.4 / 40.0
Dragic, 11.3 / 20.5
Derrick Rose, 10.5 / 28.6
D'Angelo Russell, 8.7 / 27.7

Lin's AST/TO ratio is 2.0, ranks 37 among 132 qualified guards.

There are 60 starting guards in the league, I would consider it above average.

And since the clutch time is really a small sample for a single season, I would prefer to expand the "clutch moment" to the full 4th quarter:

Lin's AST/TO in the 4th quarter is 2.85, which is better than Chris Paul. So... NO BIG DEAL to me.

[bws94]

Looking at the stats, Lin is fine in the clutch, but should cut down on TOs. But his steals are up there so he causes the other team TOs as well and draws fouls (is that in the stats, how many fouls Lin draws in the clutch?) Overall stats show he's a strong clutch performer. I think if Lin cuts down on TOs in the clutch, it'll take his game to the next level. Russell has more areas to improve in his clutch play than Lin but he's a lot less experienced. DRuss is a developing player, so hopefully these stats will improve. I think in terms of attitude, both guys have an attitude of looking to make clutch plays and shots. But Lin looks more on the defensive, gritty side more.

Again, his TO Ratio in the clutch time is relative LOOOOOOOOOW.


Don't make me believe you are one of the biased Rockets fans, do you?

TO Ratio / AST%

Austin Rivers, 22.4 / 9.7
Manu Ginobili, 16.4 / 28.9
T.J. McConnell 14.4 / 32.7
Schroder, 13.5 / 38.3
Lin, 13.1 / 37.0
Holiday, 13.1 / 39.4
Rubio, 12.8 / 41.1
CP3, 12.1 / 50.0
Lillard, 11.5 / 17.8
Harden, 11.4 / 40.0
Dragic, 11.3 / 20.5
Derrick Rose, 10.5 / 28.6
D'Angelo Russell, 8.7 / 27.7

Lin's AST/TO ratio is 2.0, ranks 37 among 132 qualified guards.

There are 60 starting guards in the league, I would consider it above average.

And since the clutch time is really a small sample for a single season, I would prefer to expand the "clutch moment" to the full 4th quarter:

Lin's AST/TO in the 4th quarter is 2.85, which is better than Chris Paul. So... NO BIG DEAL to me.

Biased Rockets fan? You're joking, right?

I said cut down on TOs late games to get to the next level, not AST/TO. Most players can have room for improvement to get their game to the next level.

[Vae Victus]

Basically what im getting out of that stat breakdown is that while Lin DOES TO a decent amount in the clutch/4th, he's also doing ALOT of playmaking and creating buckets for his team with his penetration and passing.

Which is what a starting PG is supposed to do for their team.

Ugh this season can start soon enough. I pussed otu though and only put 500 on the Nets beating their over.

[Roy Tarpley]

Basically what im getting out of that stat breakdown is that while Lin DOES TO a decent amount in the clutch/4th, he's also doing ALOT of playmaking and creating buckets for his team with his penetration and passing.

Which is what a starting PG is supposed to do for their team.

Ugh this season can start soon enough. I pussed otu though and only put 500 on the Nets beating their over.

I put 300 on Nets over. But also 100 each on Sixers under, Nets in playoffs, and Nets winning Atlantic division. I would bet more on Nets over but wife would kill me! If it's was just me, I think I'd do 1000.