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The Official Allen Crabbe Thread

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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#681 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:35 pm

26% from the field 27% from 3.

There is zero reason why he should be starting. He was nowhere near this terrible last season through the first two months either.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#682 » by armin-x » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:05 pm

he is worse than Melo

his PER is 2 :crazy:

shift his minutes to Musa ...doesn't matter is he phyisically ready or not. Crabbe is dead man walking .
good luck for trading him lol.

he will opt in thats for sure
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#683 » by gigantes » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:18 pm

I'm guessing he's in that certain zone where the injury is no longer bothering him physically, but he's not fully comfortable yet. But at $18.5m, what else is there to do but to give him full burn and let him play through it? Like it or not, it's a priority to get Crabbe sorted out ASAP. They've invested too much to give him bench minutes unless it's clear he's a lost cause, and he's clearly not.

Having said all that, you have to think there's a certain pressure on the coaches right now. Crabbe's poor offensive play is on them at this point, and they have to figure out how to get him going, for example like SpeedyG was talking about.

IMO this is yet another situation in which Nets fans have to keep reminding themselves that the team is wealthy in development and experimentation opportunities right now, and that's probably going to be less and less the case in future seasons. Wins are not too important, and now is the time to assess players like Crabbe, RHJ, and DLo. Assess them with a purpose. Overseas rookies like Musa and Kurucs doubtless are working on plenty of things right now and will get their opportunities, for sure.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#684 » by Mosdefinition » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:45 pm

armin-x wrote:he is worse than Melo

his PER is 2 :crazy:

shift his minutes to Musa ...doesn't matter is he phyisically ready or not. Crabbe is dead man walking .
good luck for trading him lol.

he will opt in thats for sure

gigantes wrote:I'm guessing he's in that certain zone where the injury is no longer bothering him physically, but he's not fully comfortable yet. But at $18.5m, what else is there to do but to give him full burn and let him play through it? Like it or not, it's a priority to get Crabbe sorted out ASAP. They've invested too much to give him bench minutes unless it's clear he's a lost cause, and he's clearly not.

Having said all that, you have to think there's a certain pressure on the coaches right now. Crabbe's poor offensive play is on them at this point, and they have to figure out how to get him going, for example like SpeedyG was talking about.

IMO this is yet another situation in which Nets fans have to keep reminding themselves that the team is wealthy in development and experimentation opportunities right now, and that's probably going to be less and less the case in future seasons. Wins are not too important, and now is the time to assess players like Crabbe, RHJ, and DLo. Assess them with a purpose. Foreign rookies like Musa and Kurucs doubtless are working on plenty of things right now and will get their opportunities, for sure.

Marks would have to attach a draft pick in order to move him at this point

He's actually be a perfect fit with the Lakers but there's no chance magic would do that
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#685 » by Prokorov » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:15 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:26% from the field 27% from 3.

There is zero reason why he should be starting. He was nowhere near this terrible last season through the first two months either.


if he shot 45% from three over the next 8 games would you change your mind? with your plan we would never find out. he has started cold 4 of his first 5 seasons. you need to let shooters play. they always come back to their averages unless they are hurt.

no need to knee-jerk remove the guy. at worst he demands space and a guy to chase him around screens
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#686 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:59 am

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:26% from the field 27% from 3.

There is zero reason why he should be starting. He was nowhere near this terrible last season through the first two months either.


if he shot 45% from three over the next 8 games would you change your mind? with your plan we would never find out. he has started cold 4 of his first 5 seasons. you need to let shooters play. they always come back to their averages unless they are hurt.

no need to knee-jerk remove the guy. at worst he demands space and a guy to chase him around screens


I'm not saying that he should be out of the rotation, I'm saying that he shouldn't be starting. It's not a knee jerk reaction to say that a dude who is putting up a PER of 2 shouldn't be starting on an NBA club.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#687 » by Prokorov » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:01 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:26% from the field 27% from 3.

There is zero reason why he should be starting. He was nowhere near this terrible last season through the first two months either.


if he shot 45% from three over the next 8 games would you change your mind? with your plan we would never find out. he has started cold 4 of his first 5 seasons. you need to let shooters play. they always come back to their averages unless they are hurt.

no need to knee-jerk remove the guy. at worst he demands space and a guy to chase him around screens


I'm not saying that he should be out of the rotation, I'm saying that he shouldn't be starting. It's not a knee jerk reaction to say that a dude who is putting up a PER of 2 shouldn't be starting on an NBA club.


Why not? our 2 best offensive lineups this year have crabbe in the lineup. whether the shots are going down or not defense respect him, chase him around screens, switch off ball screens and dont leave him to help on drives.

unless dinwiddie/russell start developing more chemistry i dont see a better option then crabbe with levert out.

not to mention he is going to get hot at some point probably soon. last night may have been the start of that
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#688 » by gigantes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:19 pm

Wow, ND is hitting the Crabbe thing pretty hard. (Is it forbidden to mention them here?)

But one thing that occurs that I haven't seen mentioned-- assuming Crabbe was a 'double mistake' in both the offer sheet & the trade, is it fair to say that the time was right to make such mistakes, or calculated gambles?
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#689 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:47 pm

gigantes wrote:Wow, ND is hitting the Crabbe thing pretty hard. (Is it forbidden to mention them here?)

But one thing that occurs that I haven't seen mentioned-- assuming Crabbe was a 'double mistake' in both the offer sheet & the trade, is it fair to say that the time was right to make such mistakes, or calculated gambles?


The rule regarding ND is kind of iffy, i mean we quote articles from them all the time. I guess we just can't talk **** about a particular person who runs it. :lol:

Crabbe was a mistake but I agree, I don't think it's that damaging of a move. I would have preferred to receive a 1st round pick along with him though. Either way, he will be an expiring next year so its really a moot issue.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#690 » by gigantes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:56 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:The rule regarding ND is kind of iffy, i mean we quote articles from them all the time. I guess we just can't talk **** about a particular person who runs it. :lol:

Haha, makes sense. Probably a bunch of drama this sub doesn't need.

I do have to give them credit for doing a great job. Just like this sub is easily the best Nets forum I've ever run across, ND strikes me as the best team coverage site out there. Any team in any major sport, AFAIK.

Come to think of it, the Nets broadcasters are arguably among the best out there, and Marks seems well on his way to being one of the most effective GM's in the league.

Good time to be a fan, amirite? :king:
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#691 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:21 pm

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:The rule regarding ND is kind of iffy, i mean we quote articles from them all the time. I guess we just can't talk **** about a particular person who runs it. :lol:

Haha, makes sense. Probably a bunch of drama this sub doesn't need.

I do have to give them credit for doing a great job. Just like this sub is easily the best Nets forum I've ever run across, ND strikes me as the best team coverage site out there. Any team in any major sport, AFAIK.

Come to think of it, the Nets broadcasters are arguably among the best out there, and Marks seems well on his way to being one of the most effective GM's in the league.

Good time to be a fan, amirite? :king:


Yeah.. ND great for news, bad for forum content
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#692 » by gigantes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:54 pm

They actually shut down their forums some years ago, so all they have left is the article comment sections. My problem with comment sections in general is that they tend to fill up with useless clutter.

One thing I like about Reddit is that it largely fixes that problem via their voting system. It's not perfect, but it helps the best stuff rise to the top, where it can get further discussion / feedback.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#693 » by TheNetsFan » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:11 pm

gigantes wrote:Wow, ND is hitting the Crabbe thing pretty hard. (Is it forbidden to mention them here?)

But one thing that occurs that I haven't seen mentioned-- assuming Crabbe was a 'double mistake' in both the offer sheet & the trade, is it fair to say that the time was right to make such mistakes, or calculated gambles?

It is definitely fair to say that taking such a gamble was worth it at the time. The Zach Lowe quote about the additional 1st rounder is unclear. Is he assuming we could've found another salary dump to take for a 1st? Was Portland offering a 1st if we took a worse player/contract? That being said, how much totally dead salary & late 1sts did we really want? We had a 1st & 2nd via the Carroll trade. For all we know, we may have drafted Musa & Kurucs with the 2 1sts, so who did we really miss out on? Diallo, KBD?

We can't discount the fact that we were also able to unload $20mil of Nicholson in the deal.

When all is said & done, the Crabbe trade hasn't really hurt us yet. If we have to use something significant to dump his final year in the offseason, then it hurts a bit. Until then, yes it's probably his worst move, but it hasn't been a significant hindrance yet (it may never be).
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#694 » by Prokorov » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:26 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
gigantes wrote:Wow, ND is hitting the Crabbe thing pretty hard. (Is it forbidden to mention them here?)

But one thing that occurs that I haven't seen mentioned-- assuming Crabbe was a 'double mistake' in both the offer sheet & the trade, is it fair to say that the time was right to make such mistakes, or calculated gambles?

It is definitely fair to say that taking such a gamble was worth it at the time. The Zach Lowe quote about the additional 1st rounder is unclear. Is he assuming we could've found another salary dump to take for a 1st? Was Portland offering a 1st if we took a worse player/contract? That being said, how much totally dead salary & late 1sts did we really want? We had a 1st & 2nd via the Carroll trade. For all we know, we may have drafted Musa & Kurucs with the 2 1sts, so who did we really miss out on? Diallo, KBD?

We can't discount the fact that we were also able to unload $20mil of Nicholson in the deal.

When all is said & done, the Crabbe trade hasn't really hurt us yet. If we have to use something significant to dump his final year in the offseason, then it hurts a bit. Until then, yes it's probably his worst move, but it hasn't been a significant hindrance yet (it may never be).


to me it just seemed like a dumb forced move at a time when there was no reason to be crass.. i love the nets drafting, but maybe thats more on the scouts? what i do know is that all we have done is throw stupid money at role guys.

it was just crabbe... tyler johnson, kent bazemore, marvin williams, dudley the first time, otto porter.

those are all some pretty awful deals. i think marks has a ways to go in free agency
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#695 » by MGrand15 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:42 pm

Don't think you can just discount that Marks knew these deals were going to be matched. We really made life difficult for these teams. I'm positive Washington hates Marks for what he did to Otto's contract.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#696 » by gigantes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:44 pm

Prokorov wrote:to me it just seemed like a dumb forced move at a time when there was no reason to be crass.. i love the nets drafting, but maybe thats more on the scouts? what i do know is that all we have done is throw stupid money at role guys.

it was just crabbe... tyler johnson, kent bazemore, marvin williams, dudley the first time, otto porter.

those are all some pretty awful deals. i think marks has a ways to go in free agency

Yeah, good points. I think when you tally it like that, Marks looks kinda out of control. You jump forward and imagine a roster filled with overpaid players, with the team's cap shot to hell and no flexibility.

OTOH I think you can also look at it as Marks calculating that he had a single opportunity at the time to overpay a project player. Who it ultimately wound up being wasn't as important as simply using that opportunity while he had it.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#697 » by TheNetsFan » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:45 pm

Prokorov wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:
gigantes wrote:Wow, ND is hitting the Crabbe thing pretty hard. (Is it forbidden to mention them here?)

But one thing that occurs that I haven't seen mentioned-- assuming Crabbe was a 'double mistake' in both the offer sheet & the trade, is it fair to say that the time was right to make such mistakes, or calculated gambles?

It is definitely fair to say that taking such a gamble was worth it at the time. The Zach Lowe quote about the additional 1st rounder is unclear. Is he assuming we could've found another salary dump to take for a 1st? Was Portland offering a 1st if we took a worse player/contract? That being said, how much totally dead salary & late 1sts did we really want? We had a 1st & 2nd via the Carroll trade. For all we know, we may have drafted Musa & Kurucs with the 2 1sts, so who did we really miss out on? Diallo, KBD?

We can't discount the fact that we were also able to unload $20mil of Nicholson in the deal.

When all is said & done, the Crabbe trade hasn't really hurt us yet. If we have to use something significant to dump his final year in the offseason, then it hurts a bit. Until then, yes it's probably his worst move, but it hasn't been a significant hindrance yet (it may never be).


to me it just seemed like a dumb forced move at a time when there was no reason to be crass.. i love the nets drafting, but maybe thats more on the scouts? what i do know is that all we have done is throw stupid money at role guys.

it was just crabbe... tyler johnson, kent bazemore, marvin williams, dudley the first time, otto porter.

those are all some pretty awful deals. i think marks has a ways to go in free agency

It's rare that a guy hits FA & doesn't get "overpaid." If we were the only ones throwing that kind of money around for those guys, it would be a valid criticism, but the truth is all of those guys had more than just us willing to throw that amount of money at them. That was/is the market. It's easy to say, let DLo walk, don't give Harris/Middleton $100+mil, etc. but you can't improve if you refuse to provide competitive pay. Very few guys that are not on rookie deals are considered underpaid. Most of the ones that are, are stars whose value exceed the max allowable contract.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#698 » by TheNetsFan » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:51 pm

gigantes wrote:
Prokorov wrote:to me it just seemed like a dumb forced move at a time when there was no reason to be crass.. i love the nets drafting, but maybe thats more on the scouts? what i do know is that all we have done is throw stupid money at role guys.

it was just crabbe... tyler johnson, kent bazemore, marvin williams, dudley the first time, otto porter.

those are all some pretty awful deals. i think marks has a ways to go in free agency

Yeah, good points. I think when you tally it like that, Marks looks kinda out of control. You jump forward and imagine a roster filled with overpaid players, with the team's cap shot to hell and no flexibility.

OTOH I think you can also look at it as Marks calculating that he had a single opportunity at the time to overpay a project player. Who it ultimately wound up being wasn't as important as simply using that opportunity while he had it.

It wouldn't be a roster full of overpaid players, because most of those offers or rumored offers were in series, not parallel.

For example, If Bazemore said yes, likely no offers for TJ or Crabbe. If Marvin said yes, or Miami/Portland don't match, no offer for Porter. If Washington doesn't match, no trade for Crabbe. We were never going to have a roster full of overpaid players (unless you count the compensated salary dumps we took on).
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#699 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:45 pm

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:The rule regarding ND is kind of iffy, i mean we quote articles from them all the time. I guess we just can't talk **** about a particular person who runs it. :lol:

Haha, makes sense. Probably a bunch of drama this sub doesn't need.

I do have to give them credit for doing a great job. Just like this sub is easily the best Nets forum I've ever run across, ND strikes me as the best team coverage site out there. Any team in any major sport, AFAIK.

Come to think of it, the Nets broadcasters are arguably among the best out there, and Marks seems well on his way to being one of the most effective GM's in the league.

Good time to be a fan, amirite? :king:


As long as you don't read the article comments, because it is a scientific fact that reading the excrement that gets spewed there will kill brains cells, browsing ND is always worth a few minutes each day.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#700 » by Prokorov » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:56 pm

MGrand15 wrote:Don't think you can just discount that Marks knew these deals were going to be matched. We really made life difficult for these teams. I'm positive Washington hates Marks for what he did to Otto's contract.


Bazemore, Williams, dudley were not RFAs. so those werent matches thankfully they went with other teams isntead.

considereing we traded for crabbe, i doubt the plan was for portland to match
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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