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The Official Allen Crabbe Thread

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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#701 » by Prokorov » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:58 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:It is definitely fair to say that taking such a gamble was worth it at the time. The Zach Lowe quote about the additional 1st rounder is unclear. Is he assuming we could've found another salary dump to take for a 1st? Was Portland offering a 1st if we took a worse player/contract? That being said, how much totally dead salary & late 1sts did we really want? We had a 1st & 2nd via the Carroll trade. For all we know, we may have drafted Musa & Kurucs with the 2 1sts, so who did we really miss out on? Diallo, KBD?

We can't discount the fact that we were also able to unload $20mil of Nicholson in the deal.

When all is said & done, the Crabbe trade hasn't really hurt us yet. If we have to use something significant to dump his final year in the offseason, then it hurts a bit. Until then, yes it's probably his worst move, but it hasn't been a significant hindrance yet (it may never be).


to me it just seemed like a dumb forced move at a time when there was no reason to be crass.. i love the nets drafting, but maybe thats more on the scouts? what i do know is that all we have done is throw stupid money at role guys.

it was just crabbe... tyler johnson, kent bazemore, marvin williams, dudley the first time, otto porter.

those are all some pretty awful deals. i think marks has a ways to go in free agency

It's rare that a guy hits FA & doesn't get "overpaid." If we were the only ones throwing that kind of money around for those guys, it would be a valid criticism, but the truth is all of those guys had more than just us willing to throw that amount of money at them. That was/is the market. It's easy to say, let DLo walk, don't give Harris/Middleton $100+mil, etc. but you can't improve if you refuse to provide competitive pay. Very few guys that are not on rookie deals are considered underpaid. Most of the ones that are, are stars whose value exceed the max allowable contract.



of course you need to overpay... just dont overpay role players.... over pay all-stars, overpay superstars, and overpay low level players with some upside (joe harris/dinwiddie/anthony bennett/etc). this way you either have talent or cap. use that cap on picks if no one will take it and build via draft

other teams dumb enough to give role players 20-30 million shoudlnt be our concern. be one of the smart ones
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#702 » by TheNetsFan » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:14 pm

Prokorov wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
to me it just seemed like a dumb forced move at a time when there was no reason to be crass.. i love the nets drafting, but maybe thats more on the scouts? what i do know is that all we have done is throw stupid money at role guys.

it was just crabbe... tyler johnson, kent bazemore, marvin williams, dudley the first time, otto porter.

those are all some pretty awful deals. i think marks has a ways to go in free agency

It's rare that a guy hits FA & doesn't get "overpaid." If we were the only ones throwing that kind of money around for those guys, it would be a valid criticism, but the truth is all of those guys had more than just us willing to throw that amount of money at them. That was/is the market. It's easy to say, let DLo walk, don't give Harris/Middleton $100+mil, etc. but you can't improve if you refuse to provide competitive pay. Very few guys that are not on rookie deals are considered underpaid. Most of the ones that are, are stars whose value exceed the max allowable contract.



of course you need to overpay... just dont overpay role players.... over pay all-stars, overpay superstars, and overpay low level players with some upside (joe harris/dinwiddie/anthony bennett/etc). this way you either have talent or cap. use that cap on picks if no one will take it and build via draft

other teams dumb enough to give role players 20-30 million shoudlnt be our concern. be one of the smart ones

I'd argue that it's virtually impossible to overpay all-stars or superstars. The max prevents that from happening. If there were no max, the top 50 players would get paid ridiculous sums, and the rest of the league would be on minimum deals. As for overpaying for guys with upside, that's what we attempted to do with Crabbe & Porter. Thus far, that upside has not been realized.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#703 » by Prokorov » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:23 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:It's rare that a guy hits FA & doesn't get "overpaid." If we were the only ones throwing that kind of money around for those guys, it would be a valid criticism, but the truth is all of those guys had more than just us willing to throw that amount of money at them. That was/is the market. It's easy to say, let DLo walk, don't give Harris/Middleton $100+mil, etc. but you can't improve if you refuse to provide competitive pay. Very few guys that are not on rookie deals are considered underpaid. Most of the ones that are, are stars whose value exceed the max allowable contract.



of course you need to overpay... just dont overpay role players.... over pay all-stars, overpay superstars, and overpay low level players with some upside (joe harris/dinwiddie/anthony bennett/etc). this way you either have talent or cap. use that cap on picks if no one will take it and build via draft

other teams dumb enough to give role players 20-30 million shoudlnt be our concern. be one of the smart ones

I'd argue that it's virtually impossible to overpay all-stars or superstars. The max prevents that from happening. If there were no max, the top 50 players would get paid ridiculous sums, and the rest of the league would be on minimum deals. As for overpaying for guys with upside, that's what we attempted to do with Crabbe & Porter. Thus far, that upside has not been realized.


overpaying crabbe and porter is overpaying role players

im talking about giving 5-10 million to the guys 1 step down. not 15-30 million to crabbe/porter types. i dont think there is a FA move worse then overpaying guys like that
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#704 » by gigantes » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:13 am

I'm wondering if there's any thoughts on this EliteSportsNY article from the other day. It contains lots of good highlights and specific examples, but I'll just paste in a couple selected thoughts here:

Since receiving a promotion to the starting lineup, Brooklyn Nets guard Allen Crabbe has been playing out of his mind on both sides of the ball.

- While playing with the reserves, Crabbe was the only real focal point for opposing perimeter defenses. Looking at his surrounding teammates on the bench, it’s easy to see why.

- Crabbe’s promotion has given him much more room to operate now that he isn’t run off the three-point line on every possession.

- Playing with the starters also appears to have done something to Crabbe’s defense. He’s been playing with an intensity we haven’t seen from him all season long.

- The Nets will need Crabbe to continue playing defense with this much vigor. Crabbe is probably the best defender in their new starting lineup. He’s capable of picking up positions 1-through-3.

- Crabbe is a two-way menace who consistently shows up. He’s been Brooklyn’s best all-around player during the month of March and has earned these starting minutes.

Since I haven't seen the team much lately, I don't know if this guy is high on loco weed or making some sense.

Even if true, I doubt this really changes much for Crabbe's long-term fit with the team, but it does seem to be coming at a particularly interesting time...
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#705 » by 3pt_chucker » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Crabbe has def done a lot of the little things after being inserted in the starting lineup, but this article is exaggerating a lot of things.

If the article actually had stats to back it up and not just cherry picked clips, I'd be more inclined to believe the hype.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#706 » by gigantes » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:02 pm

3pt_chucker wrote:Crabbe has def done a lot of the little things after being inserted in the starting lineup, but this article is exaggerating a lot of things.

If the article actually had stats to back it up and not just cherry picked clips, I'd be more inclined to believe the hype.

Thanks. That's kinda how I felt, but hadn't watched enough recent games to get a good sense of how Crabbe's doing. But he did seem to be moving better last night, FWIW.

Hadn't seen that site before, either. If it's like ND, I guess it would be in the realm of 'mostly true, with overtones of homerism.'
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#707 » by kamaze » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:01 am

Crabbe had his first double double ever with 14 points and 10 rebounds there's a stat for those who need them.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#708 » by kamaze » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:36 am

Great find gigantes Matt Brooks writes up some good stories about the team!

Crabbe’s promotion has given him much more room to operate now that he isn’t run off the three-point line on every possession. As a result, he’s showing increasing confidence on the offensive end. Take a look at this cheeky handoff play that he and Jarrett Allen busted out on Wednesday.



“Allen Crabbe has become overlooked in what he brings to the table because of that lofty $18 million contract.”

https://elitesportsny.com/2019/03/09/brooklyn-nets-allen-crabbe-is-locked-in-at-the-right-time-film-room/
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#709 » by kamaze » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:45 am

Since returning from injury, Crabbe has hovered around his career mark of 39 percent from three.

Playing next to Joe Harris and D’Angelo Russell—two guys who can knock down threes, put the ball on the floor, and distribute at an unheralded rate—Crabbe has all of the room in the world to fire from long range. He’s actually the team leader in three-point attempts per game, and that number results from his fearless ability to just simply launch it.



The clip above is a great example of just how much Crabbe flourishes while playing next to Joe Harris and D’Angelo Russell. In a rare transition opportunity for the Nets, D’Angelo Russell pushed the pace full court. Fearing a transition three-pointer from the Nets’ All-Star, the Raptors converged onto Russell.

Russell surely must have smiled with glee; the Raptors had fallen right into his trip. D-Lo swung the ball to Joe Harris: the best spot-up shooter in the league.

At this point, the Raptors’ Kyle Lowry—an outstanding defender in his own right—lurched out at Harris to dissuade him from firing a gut-wrenching three-pointer. In a split second, Harris recognized the incoming defender and executed a beautiful touch pass to Allen Crabbe who was spotting up in the corner. Three-points, Brooklyn.

Harris’ absurdly-high assisted field-goal percentage has become a bit of a talking point among NBA circles. However, Crabbe is not far behind. 98.9 percent of his three-point attempts come from a teammate’s pass.


They are similar catch and shoot players when Crabbe starts it's tough for the defense to guard all 3 positions on the perimeter. If they force one off the 3 point line by crowding him they still have to deal with Dlo and Crabbe when there's ball movement. Keep the ball *popping!

*moving, crisp passing

https://elitesportsny.com/2019/03/09/brooklyn-nets-allen-crabbe-is-locked-in-at-the-right-time-film-room/
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#710 » by kamaze » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:53 am

While playing with the reserves, Crabbe was the only real focal point for opposing perimeter defenses.

Crabbe flourishes while playing next to Joe Harris and D’Angelo Russell. Crabbe isn’t just a good fit for the starting lineup because he bolsters the three-point shooting. He also isn’t a starter only because of LeVert’s struggles. No, he’s a starter because he’s been flat out amazing on both sides of the floor.


Playing with the starters also appears to have done something to Crabbe’s defense. He’s been playing with an intensity we haven’t seen from him all season long.

One of the best ways to invigorate a player on defense is to increase their role on offense. It allows the player to feel more involved, thereby causing them to buy into team success.

Defense starts and ends with effort. Right now, you’ll be hard-pressed to find a player on Brooklyn’s roster who is fighting harder to get around screens than Allen Crabbe.

Against the Cavaliers, Crabbe ran into a particularly brutal Larry Nance Jr. screen during the first quarter. Instead of giving up on the play, Crabbe brushed the (likely) pain off, hustled around Nance’s burly frame, and leaped forward to block Brandon Knight‘s shot.

(Also, take note of how Crabbe’s pump-fake in transition resulted in a wide-open Jarrett Allen dunk on the other side of the floor. The perks of being unconscious from three, I tell ya!)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=15&v=AoWelMPpgqI

https://elitesportsny.com/2019/03/09/brooklyn-nets-allen-crabbe-is-locked-in-at-the-right-time-film-room/
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#711 » by kamaze » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:00 am

A few possessions later, Crabbe was at it again—this time ricocheting the ball off the leg of Cedi Osman in a simple handoff play. Osman looks shocked and discouraged by the turn of events.





https://elitesportsny.com/2019/03/09/brooklyn-nets-allen-crabbe-is-locked-in-at-the-right-time-film-room/
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#712 » by kamaze » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:02 am

Crabbe’s extra effort paid dividends; it’s one of the 18 turnovers that the Nets generated on their home floor during Wednesday’s game.

Not many guys battle this hard to get around screens—especially this late into the season. Most players display exhaustion as the season rolls on and their effort wanes. Crabbe, apparently, continues to get stronger as the schedule progresses.

Perhaps my favorite Allen Crabbe clip occurred at the two-minute mark in the first quarter of the Cavaliers game. It’s very easy to miss, but take a look at Crabbe’s all-out defense on Cedi Osman.





As the ball crossed half court, Osman was standing in the right corner—waiting for the ball to swing his way. Osman’s dream came true when the ball ended up in the hands of Matthew Dellavedova. Delly signaled to Osman to sprint from the corner to the right wing for a (likely) hand-off. Ideally, Osman would then take one dribble and drill a three-pointer.

Crabbe, seeing the scoring opportunity, blew up Osman’s off-ball movement by angling his body in a way that walled Osman off from ever touching the ball. Osman responded by frantically cutting back-and-forth alongside the sideline out-of-bounds but to no avail.

It’s such a simple, yet essential play to make. It completely stymied Osman, too. (Notice the shrugged shoulders, head-down reaction.)

Poor defense on easy spot-up opportunities can easily get a capable shooter like Osman going. However, if you defend him as well as Crabbe did in this instance, you can completely take a shooter like Osman out of his game.

The Nets will need to Crabbe to continue playing defense with this much vigor. Crabbe is probably the best defender in their new starting lineup. He’s capable of picking up positions 1-through-3.


https://elitesportsny.com/2019/03/09/brooklyn-nets-allen-crabbe-is-locked-in-at-the-right-time-film-room/
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#713 » by kamaze » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:09 am

In one short second, Crabbe goes from defending a shot at the rim to defending a shot from three. He must have covered, what, 15-to-20 feet in three short steps? There’s no denying that he provoked the Cavaliers’ David Nwaba (who went 3-for-5 from deep) into a miss.

Allen Crabbe is peaking at the right time.




It’s very easy to view Allen Crabbe with a glass-half-empty outlook because of his hefty contract.
Crabbe is a two-way menace who consistently shows up. He’s been Brooklyn’s best all-around player during the month of March and has earned these starting minutes.

Most of all, he’s doing his damnedest to earn every penny of that $18.5-million contract.


https://elitesportsny.com/2019/03/09/brooklyn-nets-allen-crabbe-is-locked-in-at-the-right-time-film-room/
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#714 » by SpeedyG » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:12 pm

Crabbe's defensive effort has been better since becoming a Net. But to say hes been "amazing" on both ends since bring a starter is...watching the game through Coogi-patterned glasses.

He was 2 for 6 from three in his 1st 2 starts, then proceeded to shoot 1-7 in the Hawks game making it 3 for 13 from downtown.

That's not AC, that's not even Allen. That's Graham like lol. He was shooting 29% from the field.

How anyone can call that "amazing" is beyond me, especially when he also had 4 turnovers to 2 assists.

Really, up until the Detroit game when he got out of his funk, his play in the games leading up to it has been the same whether he was a starter or a reserve.

He opened things up for Russell sure, but to say he was amazing is just too much.

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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#715 » by Prokorov » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:12 pm

SpeedyG wrote:Crabbe's defensive effort has been better since becoming a Net. But to say hes been "amazing" on both ends since bring a starter is...watching the game through Coogi-patterned glasses.

He was 2 for 6 from three in his 1st 2 starts, then proceeded to shoot 1-7 in the Hawks game making it 3 for 13 from downtown.

That's not AC, that's not even Allen. That's Graham like lol. He was shooting 29% from the field.

How anyone can call that "amazing" is beyond me, especially when he also had 4 turnovers to 2 assists.

Really, up until the Detroit game when he got out of his funk, his play in the games leading up to it has been the same whether he was a starter or a reserve.

He opened things up for Russell sure, but to say he was amazing is just too much.

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agreed... "2-way menace" isnt what i would use to describe crabbe in march.... maybe Kawhi, maybe paul george... but not Crabbe.

his D effort is there, and he plays with IQ and is in the right spots. but its not like he is disruptiing offenses and shutting down stars. not that he needs to... but you get the idea

offensively he has been good. reliable... not a menace... he hasnt had a big 25-30 point outburst where he cant miss... again we dont need that. him just being reliable on open threes and steady on off screen jumpers is huge for us
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#716 » by kamaze » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:27 pm

SpeedyG wrote:Crabbe's defensive effort has been better since becoming a Net. But to say hes been "amazing" on both ends since bring a starter is...watching the game through Coogi-patterned glasses.

He was 2 for 6 from three in his 1st 2 starts, then proceeded to shoot 1-7 in the Hawks game making it 3 for 13 from downtown.

That's not AC, that's not even Allen. That's Graham like lol. He was shooting 29% from the field.

How anyone can call that "amazing" is beyond me, especially when he also had 4 turnovers to 2 assists.

Really, up until the Detroit game when he got out of his funk, his play in the games leading up to it has been the same whether he was a starter or a reserve.

He opened things up for Russell sure, but to say he was amazing is just too much.

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This isn't true his defense has been better as a starter as well so the offense is better since teams don't allow Joe to get open much.
Offensively he's opened things up just by being another shooter.

I don't know how you can look at the clips above and come up with that conclusion but some people just don't like him due to the contract they gave him.
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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#717 » by SpeedyG » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:47 pm

kamaze wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:Crabbe's defensive effort has been better since becoming a Net. But to say hes been "amazing" on both ends since bring a starter is...watching the game through Coogi-patterned glasses.

He was 2 for 6 from three in his 1st 2 starts, then proceeded to shoot 1-7 in the Hawks game making it 3 for 13 from downtown.

That's not AC, that's not even Allen. That's Graham like lol. He was shooting 29% from the field.

How anyone can call that "amazing" is beyond me, especially when he also had 4 turnovers to 2 assists.

Really, up until the Detroit game when he got out of his funk, his play in the games leading up to it has been the same whether he was a starter or a reserve.

He opened things up for Russell sure, but to say he was amazing is just too much.

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This isn't true his defense has been better as a starter as well so the offense is better since teams don't allow Joe to get open much.
Offensively he's opened things up just by being another shooter.

I don't know how you can look at the clips above and come up with that conclusion but some people just don't like him due to the contract they gave him.
Again, not questioning that he opened up our offense but you say he was amazing?

That's nuts.

Caris was "amazing" during his early stretch.

Spencer was "amazing" in that stretch after Caris went down.

Russell was "amazing" in that January stretch"

Crabbe, in his 4 starts since the Miami game, was not amazing.

He has however, been a good fit just as Dudley was a good fit at our 4 spot early in the season.

But neither of them were amazing...

You would have to be doing Jason Kidd-like elite non-box score stuff to be "amazing" while shooting 29%

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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#718 » by kamaze » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:03 am

SpeedyG wrote:
kamaze wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:Crabbe's defensive effort has been better since becoming a Net. But to say hes been "amazing" on both ends since bring a starter is...watching the game through Coogi-patterned glasses.

He was 2 for 6 from three in his 1st 2 starts, then proceeded to shoot 1-7 in the Hawks game making it 3 for 13 from downtown.

That's not AC, that's not even Allen. That's Graham like lol. He was shooting 29% from the field.

How anyone can call that "amazing" is beyond me, especially when he also had 4 turnovers to 2 assists.

Really, up until the Detroit game when he got out of his funk, his play in the games leading up to it has been the same whether he was a starter or a reserve.

He opened things up for Russell sure, but to say he was amazing is just too much.

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This isn't true his defense has been better as a starter as well so the offense is better since teams don't allow Joe to get open much.
Offensively he's opened things up just by being another shooter.

I don't know how you can look at the clips above and come up with that conclusion but some people just don't like him due to the contract they gave him.
Again, not questioning that he opened up our offense but you say he was amazing?

That's nuts.

Caris was "amazing" during his early stretch.

Spencer was "amazing" in that stretch after Caris went down.

Russell was "amazing" in that January stretch"

Crabbe, in his 4 starts since the Miami game, was not amazing.

He has however, been a good fit just as Dudley was a good fit at our 4 spot early in the season.

But neither of them were amazing...

You would have to be doing Jason Kidd-like elite non-box score stuff to be "amazing" while shooting 29%

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He's been good. The writer chose to use the word amazing...I choose to focus on what Crabbe's doing moreso than a word a writer uses in an article to describe him. What's wrong with enthusiasm? he focuses on the positives.

“Allen Crabbe has become overlooked in what he brings to the table because of that lofty $18 million contract.”



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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#719 » by kamaze » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:03 am

double post

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Re: The Official Allen Crabbe Thread 

Post#720 » by kamaze » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:16 am



-If you were at this game and saw a him steal and inbounds then retreat to the 3 point line and splash the shot you could call it amazing. @the 12 second mark

-the same if you watched him come off a screen going to his left and shoot a 3 pointer to his right hitting it off glass that's a tough shot

"Allen Crabbe in his 3rd game back after missing 2 months has been absolutely lights out. His work comes before the catch" Sarah Kustok says...
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