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2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 2:18 pm
by Rich Rane
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 2:32 pm
by MrDollarBills
^^Hey Rich are we allowed to continue the Kobe debate from the last thread since we're awhile away from training camp discussion? i found it to be entertaining but i understand if its considered OT.
Re: Roy Tarpley's minutes distribution
Waiting for the preseason is a drag. Nothing to do. Time to predict minute distributions again:
Lin (30) / Russell (10) / Dinwiddie (8)
Russell (20) / Kilpatrick (20) / Levert (8)
Crabbe (28) / Levert (16) / Carroll (4)
RHJ (24) / Carroll (16) / Booker (8)
Mozgov (24) / Booker (16) / Allen (8)
Can't really find minutes for Whitehead, Harris, and Acy.
Roy I seriously doubt that Dinwiddie is only getting 8MPG.
I would cut Kilpatrick's minutes. I can't see him playing more time over LeVert and Whitehead, both of whom are active defenders.
The question mark I have is really with RHJ and Carroll. I don't see Carroll as a PF, to me he's even slimmer than RHJ despite being an inch taller. But I also didn't see RHJ as a PF last year at this time either.
I think the rotation is a 9-10 man set up due to the high pace that we play:
backcourt (dual ball handlers): Lin, Russell, Dinwiddie, Whitehead
<---LeVert may jump in and out of this rotation if needs arise.wings: Crabbe, LeVert, Carroll
(Kilpatrick, Harris are the odd men out, but will get their chances)bigs: Mozgov, RHJ, Booker (Acy, Allen will be odd men out for now, Allen will be eased in as the year progresses)
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 3:37 pm
by Roy Tarpley
MrDollarBills wrote:^^Hey Rich are we allowed to continue the Kobe debate from the last thread since we're awhile away from training camp discussion? i found it to be entertaining but i understand if its considered OT.
Re: Roy Tarpley's minutes distribution
Waiting for the preseason is a drag. Nothing to do. Time to predict minute distributions again:
Lin (30) / Russell (10) / Dinwiddie (8)
Russell (20) / Kilpatrick (20) / Levert (8)
Crabbe (28) / Levert (16) / Carroll (4)
RHJ (24) / Carroll (16) / Booker (8)
Mozgov (24) / Booker (16) / Allen (8)
Can't really find minutes for Whitehead, Harris, and Acy.
Roy I seriously doubt that Dinwiddie is only getting 8MPG.
I would cut Kilpatrick's minutes. I can't see him playing more time over LeVert and Whitehead, both of whom are active defenders.
The question mark I have is really with RHJ and Carroll. I don't see Carroll as a PF, to me he's even slimmer than RHJ despite being an inch taller. But I also didn't see RHJ as a PF last year at this time either.
I think the rotation is a 9-10 man set up due to the high pace that we play:
backcourt (dual ball handlers): Lin, Russell, Dinwiddie, Whitehead
<---LeVert may jump in and out of this rotation if needs arise.wings: Crabbe, LeVert, Carroll
(Kilpatrick, Harris are the odd men out, but will get their chances)bigs: Mozgov, RHJ, Booker (Acy, Allen will be odd men out for now, Allen will be eased in as the year progresses)
I disagree. Skil is the veteran and will not take well to getting less time than Dinwiddie. That's why I thought Skil woul'd be traded. Likewise, I see no minutes for Whitehead, in the aggregate.
The only reason Dinwiddie and Whitehead got so much time last year was because Lin was injured, Foye only played like 15 minutes per game, and Skil was injured for a period too. Now we got Lin back, Dlo with a full 30mpg, AND Skil back and Levert and Crabbe potentially taking SG minutes too.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 6:03 pm
by MrDollarBills
I don't see what Kilpatrick's veteran status has to do with it? if anything it works against him because he's about to be 28 years old and pretty much a finished product whereas Dinwiddie and Whitehead have upside and can handle the ball better + defend. Dinwiddie showed that he's more than capable enough to back up Lin and is active defensively. The team didn't start winning until a) Lin came back and b) the better defenders on the team got all of the minutes. I don't really see anyway that Whitehead or Dinwiddie gets glued to the bench outside of them just playing poorly...they have upside that needs the minutes as opposed to Kilpatrick who is better used as an offensive spark.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 6:23 pm
by shakendfries
MrDollarBills wrote:Pau Gasol is going to be a hall of famer. I'm not going to say he was on some superstar tier, but I just wanted to say that Gasol shouldn't be downplayed either.
so is Chris Bosh
mademan wrote:It's like relativeity means nothing. Ya, Lebrons got a stacked roster, but he's still playing in a league with the Warriors in it. Kobe always, ALWAYS, had the best supporting cast in all his championships run, and only one you can argue against is 2010.
Lebron has played on the most overwhelmingly stacked team in the entire NBA from July 2010 to July 2016
Hello Brooklyn wrote:LOL at you bringing up Shaq playing with Nash when he was well past his prime. Thats a stupid argument.
By the time Shaq joined Wade he was nearing the end of his prime anyway.
You're right about Kobe winning 2 as the main guy.
But LeBron won 3 as the main guy. So I'll talk that over Kobe's 2.
And no thats a dumb comparison. Kobe's Lakers teams were stacked. He had Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom Andrew Bynum, and the best coach of all time in Phil Jackson.
Kobe wasn't even good in the 2010 Finals and was absolutely terrible Game 7.
In reality, Gasol should have won FMVP that year. Stop acting like he didn't have a ton of help.
wait, so you're giving Lebron credit for winning with a stacked team but not Kobe?
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 6:44 pm
by mademan
shakendfries wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:Pau Gasol is going to be a hall of famer. I'm not going to say he was on some superstar tier, but I just wanted to say that Gasol shouldn't be downplayed either.
so is Chris Bosh
mademan wrote:It's like relativeity means nothing. Ya, Lebrons got a stacked roster, but he's still playing in a league with the Warriors in it. Kobe always, ALWAYS, had the best supporting cast in all his championships run, and only one you can argue against is 2010.
Lebron has played on the most overwhelmingly stacked team in the entire NBA from July 2010 to July 2016
Hello Brooklyn wrote:LOL at you bringing up Shaq playing with Nash when he was well past his prime. Thats a stupid argument.
By the time Shaq joined Wade he was nearing the end of his prime anyway.
You're right about Kobe winning 2 as the main guy.
But LeBron won 3 as the main guy. So I'll talk that over Kobe's 2.
And no thats a dumb comparison. Kobe's Lakers teams were stacked. He had Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom Andrew Bynum, and the best coach of all time in Phil Jackson.
Kobe wasn't even good in the 2010 Finals and was absolutely terrible Game 7.
In reality, Gasol should have won FMVP that year. Stop acting like he didn't have a ton of help.
wait, so you're giving Lebron credit for winning with a stacked team but not Kobe?
Thats incredibly disingenous. OKC Thunder were equally stoked as the 2012 Heat, 2014 Spurs were clearly better top to bottom after Lebron/Duncan (whoever you consider better between Duncan/Kawhi then), 2015 Kyrie and Love didnt even play, the 2016 W's were overwhelmingly considered one of the GOAT teams. So 1 year, where Lebron had a ridiculous talent advantage in which he choked (2011).
Kobe clearly, clearly, had the best supporting cast in the league in all of his wins (except maybe 2010, where he won playing a chit game/mediocre series). Comparing his cast, relative to the league, to Lebron takes hoop jumping thinking.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 6:55 pm
by shakendfries
mademan wrote:Thats incredibly disingenous. OKC Thunder were equally stoked as the 2012 Heat, 2014 Spurs were clearly better top to bottom after Lebron/Duncan (whoever you consider better between Duncan/Kawhi then), 2015 Kyrie and Love didnt even play, the 2016 W's were overwhelmingly considered one of the GOAT teams. So 1 year, where Lebron had a ridiculous talent advantage in which he choked (2011).
Kobe clearly, clearly, had the best supporting cast in the league in all of his wins (except maybe 2010, where he won playing a chit game/mediocre series). Comparing his cast, relative to the league, to Lebron takes hoop jumping thinking.
Lebron has played for the most overwhelmingly stacked team in the entire NBA from July 2010 to July 2016.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 6:57 pm
by mademan
shakendfries wrote:mademan wrote:Thats incredibly disingenous. OKC Thunder were equally stoked as the 2012 Heat, 2014 Spurs were clearly better top to bottom after Lebron/Duncan (whoever you consider better between Duncan/Kawhi then), 2015 Kyrie and Love didnt even play, the 2016 W's were overwhelmingly considered one of the GOAT teams. So 1 year, where Lebron had a ridiculous talent advantage in which he choked (2011).
Kobe clearly, clearly, had the best supporting cast in the league in all of his wins (except maybe 2010, where he won playing a chit game/mediocre series). Comparing his cast, relative to the league, to Lebron takes hoop jumping thinking.
Lebron has played for the most overwhelmingly stacked team in the entire NBA from July 2010 to July 2016.
Thats not an argument. lol. But you win.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 7:15 pm
by Karate Diop
The devalue Lebron's supporting cast game is one of my favorite games...
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 7:46 pm
by MrDollarBills
mademan wrote:shakendfries wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:Pau Gasol is going to be a hall of famer. I'm not going to say he was on some superstar tier, but I just wanted to say that Gasol shouldn't be downplayed either.
so is Chris Bosh
mademan wrote:It's like relativeity means nothing. Ya, Lebrons got a stacked roster, but he's still playing in a league with the Warriors in it. Kobe always, ALWAYS, had the best supporting cast in all his championships run, and only one you can argue against is 2010.
Lebron has played on the most overwhelmingly stacked team in the entire NBA from July 2010 to July 2016
Hello Brooklyn wrote:LOL at you bringing up Shaq playing with Nash when he was well past his prime. Thats a stupid argument.
By the time Shaq joined Wade he was nearing the end of his prime anyway.
You're right about Kobe winning 2 as the main guy.
But LeBron won 3 as the main guy. So I'll talk that over Kobe's 2.
And no thats a dumb comparison. Kobe's Lakers teams were stacked. He had Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom Andrew Bynum, and the best coach of all time in Phil Jackson.
Kobe wasn't even good in the 2010 Finals and was absolutely terrible Game 7.
In reality, Gasol should have won FMVP that year. Stop acting like he didn't have a ton of help.
wait, so you're giving Lebron credit for winning with a stacked team but not Kobe?
Thats incredibly disingenous. OKC Thunder were equally stoked as the 2012 Heat, 2014 Spurs were clearly better top to bottom after Lebron/Duncan (whoever you consider better between Duncan/Kawhi then), 2015 Kyrie and Love didnt even play, the 2016 W's were overwhelmingly considered one of the GOAT teams. So 1 year, where Lebron had a ridiculous talent advantage in which he choked (2011).
Kobe clearly, clearly, had the best supporting cast in the league in all of his wins (except maybe 2010, where he won playing a chit game/mediocre series).
Comparing his cast, relative to the league, to Lebron takes hoop jumping thinking.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 7:56 pm
by CalamityX12
2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 7:58 pm
by Paradise
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 8:03 pm
by CalamityX12
Paradise wrote:Zeller or Sullinger?
not that i particuraly want either of them but at least Zeller is a 7 footer, we need some size for insurance and play.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 8:05 pm
by steady
Paradise wrote:Zeller or Sullinger?
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
Yea, I don't think it's going to be Sullinger. Don't know why exactly. Maybe it is that Anthony Bennett was not a fun experience, so why take the risk ?
Also, I agree with those who think Skil and Jarrett Allen will get more minutes than some are expecting.
Who will get the least minutes? I can't even begin to guess.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 8:09 pm
by MrDollarBills
Paradise wrote:Zeller or Sullinger?
what's Zeller's defensive metrics looking like
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 8:14 pm
by Hello Brooklyn
This is the problem with discussing Kobe.
Some of you guys are completely irrational because you grew up idolizing Kobe.
Objectively, Kobe is not in the tier of Jordan/LeBron. But in the minds of fans he is because of his own brand.
And I guess that an accomplishment in itself.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 8:46 pm
by Netaman
Could do a lot worse than Zeller - his career per36 numbers are better than Mozgov's. I can see why we might go in a different direction because it may be preferable to bring in somebody who adds something that isn't currently on the roster, but he'd be a good depth signing and if something were to happen to Mozgov he has some upside. In '14-'15 he was worth 6+ WS.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 8:55 pm
by Netaman
Waiting for the preseason is a drag. Nothing to do. Time to predict minute distributions again:
Lin (30) / Russell (10) / Dinwiddie (8)
Russell (20) / Kilpatrick (20) / Levert (8)
Crabbe (28) / Levert (16) / Carroll (4)
RHJ (24) / Carroll (16) / Booker (8)
Mozgov (24) / Booker (16) / Allen (8)
Can't really find minutes for Whitehead, Harris, and Acy.
Too many minutes for Kilpatrick. I think he drops way out of the rotation barring injury to Russell or LeVert.
I'd predict the foursome of Lin - Russell - Crabbe - LeVert will each be close to 30 mpg (or over), taking up the vast majority of the minutes between the 1-3. Of the leftover 20 mpg, I think some (~10-15 min) will go to Dinwiddie backing up the point and some to RHJ/DMC whenever we need to shift to a bigger lineup.
For the 4 & 5 I think it's probably a more of a mix and match split based on matchups and riding the hot hand. Mozgov will probably be in the low 20's. RHJ/DMC have a pretty big range in possible minutes depending on their form (15-30 mpg). Booker will also probably be safe for around 20 mpg backing up both spots. Allen is a total wild card.
Re: 2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 8:58 pm
by Roy Tarpley
MrDollarBills wrote:I don't see what Kilpatrick's veteran status has to do with it? if anything it works against him because he's about to be 28 years old and pretty much a finished product whereas Dinwiddie and Whitehead have upside and can handle the ball better + defend. Dinwiddie showed that he's more than capable enough to back up Lin and is active defensively. The team didn't start winning until a) Lin came back and b) the better defenders on the team got all of the minutes. I don't really see anyway that Whitehead or Dinwiddie gets glued to the bench outside of them just playing poorly...they have upside that needs the minutes as opposed to Kilpatrick who is better used as an offensive spark.
I think Skil's veteran status gives him the edge, everything else being equal. Since he won't have to play PG, he'll arguably be playing better than last year, providing the instant offense the bench needs (offense seems to get more recognition than defense). Also, from a morale standpoint, unless Skil is shipped out, I can't see him being a faithful towel waver after what he's overcome and achieved over the last two years - whereas a 2nd year player might be expected more to suck it up.
Assuming Skil, Dinwiddie, and Whitehead all play the same in preseason, I feel like Skil would get the edge as the backup SG and Dinwiddie as the backup PG. Marks's excellent roster creation puts Whitehead in a tough spot.
If you look at the gamelog from the first few Nets games last year, 4 players basically split the G minutes: Lin, Vasquez, Bogs, and Skil. I could the same happening with Lin, Dlo, Dinwiddie, and Skil.
2017 Nets Offseason Thread IV
Posted: Fri Sep 8, 2017 9:24 pm
by Paradise
Skil averaged 13/4/2 on 34% 3pt shooting and a .547 TS%. We don't reach 20 wins without his scoring and ability to draw fouls last season.
There's no reason why Kenny will push his minutes back to start the season. He's quietly become one of the most well known faces on the team besides Lin and D'Lo.
He's been working out with Caris, Durant and Nash this past month. I'm sure the Nets think he's got more upside in this offense especially now he's going to be surrounded with more NBA caliber players and floor spacers.
