The Official Lin Net Thread III.5

[Roy Tarpley]

its about the future not winning now... and the nets cap situation will require alot of flexibility. we need to decide on extensions for RHJ/Dlo... we need decide if we want to pay Dinwiddie instead of letting him hit free agency the next year where he would be unrestricted and we would not have rights to match.

Harris, Staukus, Okafor are all free agents we need to decide if we want to bring back.

We need to decide if we want to bring vezenkov over

we need to see if we want to take on salary to move up in the draft

we only have 13.9 million in cap space. a decision on Lin likely comes sometime between pre-draft and training camp.

Prok, I get your perspective. However, I disagree a bit with it. I think if a team learns how to win that's great for their development. It's great for team morale to win more, not less.

If Marks goes with the way you're thinking, fine. If not, fine. I think vet leadership is very important and Lin is solid in that regard. So, I'm just taking a different angle. But I totally get what you're saying.

We have veteran leadership. his name is demarre carroll. he has played in 52 playoff games (Lin has 17) and been to the conference finals 2 of the last 3 years.

I like Lin as a mentor and teammate but he just no logner fits the team, the roster, or the timeline and unlike when we signed him we have a vet leader and winner guys look up to in Carroll.

we need the 4 mil or so in cap space alot more then another mentor... and if we do need another mentor we can sign one for the minimum

As a Lin fan and someone who really likes the Nets players and the direction of the team, I really want Lin to stay on the Nets.

But Prok's argument about a Lin buyout is hard to disagree with from an objective standpoint. And I suppose, if your rationale is that sensible, then Marks will undoubtedly take it sometime before October 2018. And in Marks I trust.

The first hint will be if there's a draft day trade. Maybe Carroll or Lin or both will be gone. If Lin is still on the team by the start of the season, then there may be a factor that Marks is considering that we the fans aren't.

[13th Man]

can't blame him for accepting the PO. Marks and company should've made it a TO. That money would be nice to have this summer. But then again, if he comes back strong next year, he'll be a prime expiring contract that might get us a 2019 pick (and dead money). That would make next year a prime year to... (gulp) tank. Having our own pick and then another in that draft would be so damn sweet.

Yep. It has always been in the Nets best interest for Lin to come back strong as they could either re-sign him to a team friendly contract or possibly trade him away for picks. There is no other logical scenario here.

Re-signing Lin is detrimental to the nets. they need to clear cap not add to it for someone who doesnt fit the timeline when we already have a logjam at combo gaurd.

an extension doesnt help because it wouldnt kick in until the following season.

we need to reduce his cap number and move on from him

You don't know how he's going to come back, hence why I put in the OR clause. I'll take that as an opinion and not fact.

[13th Man]

But the kind of value it has is cap relief value. Teams trading to acquire an expiring are looking to offload longer term contracts which is what we're trying to avoid if we want to take a swing at FA before all our guys come off their rookie deals. If we're trading him to get cap relief then he's a neutral to negative trade asset depending on what teams have cap space.

Realistically the best case scenario might be something like packaging Lin with the Toronto pick to move up in the draft and taking back a smaller longer term contract. The market value of cap space has temporarily trended up dramatically since the cap raises stagnated. That's how we got the Toronto pick, DLo and Crabbe for pennies on the dollar in outgoing assets.

Not necessarily though. If LIn plays very well. a playoff team could want him to help them take it to the next level i.e. as a 6th man. In this scenario, they wouldn't necessarily be looking to offload baggage.

This is why common sense dictates that the Nets organization and their fans should want Lin to do as well as possible rather than trying to ditch him for nothing.

he wouldnt be able to do that here since there are better/younger guys ahead of him who will get playing time and its better to buyout line or let him expire then to give him minutes just to hope his trade value increases.

plus Lin doesnt have the kind of impact to get a playoff team to the next level not to mention relying on a guy who is now an injury risk

Lin will get some minutes off the bench and his playing time will be dictated upon how he performs. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. All of your opinion are based on speculation which may or may not be true.

[13th Man]

I understand that's your POV. It may even be official POV. I like Carroll but he's not Lin IMO. And they may trade him at some point. Or Lin.

I don't agree with you totally. What you say has merit and I'm not saying you're wrong. But I see multiple scenarios of what can happen. And what you're saying may become mute if certain factors change down the road. Or it may be 100 percent correct.

At any rate, Brooklyn basketball is worth watching due to the young players. I like this team a lot more than the Knicks and hope the Nets fanbase grows. Kinda tough hearing fans rooting for the opponents at Barclays.

Solid post as usual, Prok. Thanks.

Carroll not being Lin is a good thing..... Carroll is a SF, SF is our biggest need without much depth. Carroll has won more in this league then Lin. Caroll has more experience in big games then Lin. Carroll has worked longer with kenny, etc..

I think if anything, the decision was between Carroll and Lin. They even traded for Cunningham who has playoff experience. But now that Demarre is the guy that people are listening to, you're not going to have 3 or 4 voices in that situation. So a Lin trade or buyout is very possible.

Possible but unlikely.

[LKIRNets]

Carroll not being Lin is a good thing..... Carroll is a SF, SF is our biggest need without much depth. Carroll has won more in this league then Lin. Caroll has more experience in big games then Lin. Carroll has worked longer with kenny, etc..

I think if anything, the decision was between Carroll and Lin. They even traded for Cunningham who has playoff experience. But now that Demarre is the guy that people are listening to, you're not going to have 3 or 4 voices in that situation. So a Lin trade or buyout is very possible.

Possible but unlikely.

LeBron, Melo, Tyreke or Paul George may be going somewhere this offseason. Likely someone's role will diminish and have to be moved if they don't end up on the Lakers. Lin's contract is the perfect trade and buyout for a team wit a young player's role diminished and needing to get out of his deal.

[Netaman]

I could see them swapping Lin to fill a need with a similarly priced 1 year vet like Faried. Also, it gives them options at the draft if they decide to give up an asset like Dinwiddie to move up. Lin is still affordable and coming off the injury I don't think he'd have any issue playing more of a 6th man role depending on how the roster shakes out.

[13th Man]

1) What would the Nets benefit from having an extra 2-4M in change next year? Next year should theoretically be a tank year if anything since the Nets finally get their pick back and are thirsty to rebuild. They also haven't shown any signs of becoming a playoff team so why the sudden urgency to muster a bit of extra cap space?

2) Lin's contract is not the one handcuffing the team the most, it's Mozgov and Crabbe whom both are on the hook for another 2 years.

3) No team is going offer Lin 4M next year, not in his current state. Right now he is considered a liability more than anything until he can show something on the court.

4) I don't see Lin getting traded either, see point #3. Lin is not an asset currently, he has a negative value. The Nets cannot afford to take on anymore bad contracts.

Like the market, it's important for GMs to buy low/sell high. You guys are asking for the Nets to sell low right now which go against basic principles.

[Prokorov]

I understand that's your POV. It may even be official POV. I like Carroll but he's not Lin IMO. And they may trade him at some point. Or Lin.

I don't agree with you totally. What you say has merit and I'm not saying you're wrong. But I see multiple scenarios of what can happen. And what you're saying may become mute if certain factors change down the road. Or it may be 100 percent correct.

At any rate, Brooklyn basketball is worth watching due to the young players. I like this team a lot more than the Knicks and hope the Nets fanbase grows. Kinda tough hearing fans rooting for the opponents at Barclays.

Solid post as usual, Prok. Thanks.

Carroll not being Lin is a good thing..... Carroll is a SF, SF is our biggest need without much depth. Carroll has won more in this league then Lin. Caroll has more experience in big games then Lin. Carroll has worked longer with kenny, etc..

All true. I think. Lin can work with the facilitators/distributors more in practice. They bring different good things as they play different positions. They bring different leadership qualities. I'm all in on keeping Carroll around with Lin if possible.

if lin wants to mentor ball handlers he can accept a buyout and sign on as an assistant coach. he isnt worth wasting the cap space on with 3 better combo gaurds on the roster

[Prokorov]

Not necessarily though. If LIn plays very well. a playoff team could want him to help them take it to the next level i.e. as a 6th man. In this scenario, they wouldn't necessarily be looking to offload baggage.

This is why common sense dictates that the Nets organization and their fans should want Lin to do as well as possible rather than trying to ditch him for nothing.

he wouldnt be able to do that here since there are better/younger guys ahead of him who will get playing time and its better to buyout line or let him expire then to give him minutes just to hope his trade value increases.

plus Lin doesnt have the kind of impact to get a playoff team to the next level not to mention relying on a guy who is now an injury risk

Lin will get some minutes off the bench and his playing time will be dictated upon how he performs. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. All of your opinion are based on speculation which may or may not be true.

his performance is irrelevant since the goal is development not wins. which is why lin is no longer a great fit. we have other mentors and at 30 he doesnt fir a 6 year rebuild plan

[bws94]

I think Lin not being with the team next season at some point is a very real possibility. But, it isn't the only possibility. Many comments aren't seeing how he could stay with the team, and a few just want him gone and are just confirming that POV with scenarios. There are many scenarios that can play out. There also may be players that are here now that may not be here by the beginning of next season. And there are always injuries which could affect things in the way none of us could predict. That said, the last thing I want to see is any significant injury to any Nets player. And an injury to a core player would suck mightily.

[13th Man]

Carroll not being Lin is a good thing..... Carroll is a SF, SF is our biggest need without much depth. Carroll has won more in this league then Lin. Caroll has more experience in big games then Lin. Carroll has worked longer with kenny, etc..

All true. I think. Lin can work with the facilitators/distributors more in practice. They bring different good things as they play different positions. They bring different leadership qualities. I'm all in on keeping Carroll around with Lin if possible.

if lin wants to mentor ball handlers he can accept a buyout and sign on as an assistant coach. he isnt worth wasting the cap space on with 3 better combo gaurds on the roster

What the Nets decide to do has nothing to do with Lin's best interest, it has to do with their own. The best that the Nets could hope for if they want to move on from Lin is for him to become a positive value then trade him before the deadline next season. They gain picks, the tank rolls on.

[Prokorov]

1) What would the Nets benefit from having an extra 2-4M in change next year? Next year should theoretically be a tank year if anything since the Nets finally get their pick back and are thirsty to rebuild. They also haven't shown any signs of becoming a playoff team so why the sudden urgency to muster a bit of extra cap space?

Many possible benefits

1) an extra 4 million could be the difference between signing harris or him leaving

2) an extra 4 million could be the difference between extending dinwiddie long term vs. letting him play out his final year and becoming a free agent

3) an extra 4 million could mean having the cap space to take on another salary dump landing us a 1st round pick or Russell type aquisition

2) Lin's contract is not the one handcuffing the team the most, it's Mozgov and Crabbe whom both are on the hook for another 2 years.

Mozgov has 2 years 32 million left. thats not something we can realistically buyout.

Crabbe has a role on the team and marks has a love affair with him

Lin on the other hand has no role on the team and is a perfect buyout candidate given he could get his money and find a team that has a role for him

3) No team is going offer Lin 4M next year, not in his current state. Right now he is considered a liability more than anything until he can show something on the court.

maybe but 4... but 2 million. i think lin would consider 10.5 million and get to play over 12.5 million and sitting behind young deveoping players on a team with no aspirations for winning

4) I don't see Lin getting traded either, see point #3. Lin is not an asset currently, he has a negative value. The Nets cannot afford to take on anymore bad contracts.

there are teams that would trade their similarly bad fit for our bad fit. something like faried for lin

Like the market, it's important for GMs to buy low/sell high. You guys are asking for the Nets to sell low right now which go against basic principles.

its not about selling high or low. its about cap space. even at his apex lin has little value as a 30 year old coming off 2 injuries. and to get to his highest value we would need to play him which is at the detriment of the team and player development

Lin has to go. and it slikely he gets bought out.

[MGrand15]

Lin getting a buy out is about as likely as your theory that Lin may turn down his player option in search of a starting job.

[Prokorov]

Lin getting a buy out is about as likely as your theory that Lin may turn down his player option in search of a starting job.

it is a near certainty lin will be bought out or traded.

we know you dont care about the cap or dont understand it. but it does exsist

[13th Man]

Many possible benefits

1) an extra 4 million could be the difference between signing harris or him leaving

2) an extra 4 million could be the difference between extending dinwiddie long term vs. letting him play out his final year and becoming a free agent

3) an extra 4 million could mean having the cap space to take on another salary dump landing us a 1st round pick or Russell type aquisition

1) They can always pick up another Joe Harris next offseason

2) Hassles and complications involved not worth the risk imo.

3) Nets have taken on enough salary dumps. They want to start rebuilding after they get their pick back. Perfect timing as Lin's contract expires the same time.

Mozgov has 2 years 32 million left. thats not something we can realistically buyout.

Crabbe has a role on the team and marks has a love affair with him

Lin on the other hand has no role on the team and is a perfect buyout candidate given he could get his money and find a team that has a role for him

Not so fast. Dlo hasn't proven to be that guy yet. Let's see if he can finish off this season healthy and come back to old form? Funny how Lin has been written off completely while DLo gets a pass just because he's 21. He still needs to show dependability which he hasn't yet. His role could be an insurance guard for Dlo's unreliability.

maybe but 4... but 2 million. i think lin would consider 10.5 million and get to play over 12.5 million and sitting behind young deveoping players on a team with no aspirations for winning

The Nets aren't going through hoops to free up 2.5M of cap space. They'd also lose Lin's rebound potential, which is the potential for him to become an asset.

there are teams that would trade their similarly bad fit for our bad fit. something like faried for lin

So sell low for another low player, ok.

its not about selling high or low. its about cap space. even at his apex lin has little value as a 30 year old coming off 2 injuries. and to get to his highest value we would need to play him which is at the detriment of the team and player development

Lin has to go. and it slikely he gets bought out.

If they buy out Lin they gain what around 2.5M in cap space? Big deal. They will lose the potential for him to become an asset which could turn out to be worth a lot more than 2.5M. This is what they should be striving for and most likely will be doing.

[MGrand15]

Lin getting a buy out is about as likely as your theory that Lin may turn down his player option in search of a starting job.

it is a near certainty lin will be bought out or traded.

we know you dont care about the cap or dont understand it. but it does exsist

You said it's likely he gets bought out. Thats not happening.

The team's not going to push for it. And Lin wouldn't want to do it. For 1000 reasons.

You can keep deluding yourself just because you don't like Lin fans though.

[tonman]

Lin getting a buy out is about as likely as your theory that Lin may turn down his player option in search of a starting job.

it is a near certainty lin will be bought out or traded.

we know you dont care about the cap or dont understand it. but it does exsist

Laughable. And you complain about lin fans. Nobody on this team is a star. They play hard together and thats what is good. At the way they are playing theyre a 27 win team.

[Prokorov]

1) They can always pick up another Joe Harris next offseason

with what money? 13.9 million before addressing okafor, stauskus, dinwiddie, acy, etc...

3) Nets have taken on enough salary dumps. They want to start rebuilding after they get their pick back. Perfect timing as Lin's contract expires the same time.

you cant have too many salary dumps when they are tied to picks and lotto talent

Not so fast. Dlo hasn't proven to be that guy yet. Let's see if he can finish off this season healthy and come back to old form? Funny how Lin has been written off completely while DLo gets a pass just because he's 21. He still needs to show dependability

Dlo doesnt get a pass. he is 21 not 30. makes sense to play him. he can potentially be part of the future. lin cant be

If they buy out Lin they gain what around 2.5M in cap space? Big deal. They will lose the potential for him to become an asset which could turn out to be worth a lot more than 2.5M. This is what they should be striving for and most likely will be doing.

2.5 million goes a long way when your cap is tight and you have tons of guys on your team hiting free agency

lin wont become an assett because he wont play

[Prokorov]

Lin getting a buy out is about as likely as your theory that Lin may turn down his player option in search of a starting job.

it is a near certainty lin will be bought out or traded.

we know you dont care about the cap or dont understand it. but it does exsist

You said it's likely he gets bought out. Thats not happening.

The team's not going to push for it. And Lin wouldn't want to do it. For 1000 reasons.

You can keep deluding yourself just because you don't like Lin fans though.

Nets wont have to push for it, its mutually beneficial.

there are 0 reasons for lin not to o it.

[Prokorov]

Lin getting a buy out is about as likely as your theory that Lin may turn down his player option in search of a starting job.

it is a near certainty lin will be bought out or traded.

we know you dont care about the cap or dont understand it. but it does exsist

Laughable. And you complain about lin fans. Nobody on this team is a star. They play hard together and thats what is good. At the way they are playing theyre a 27 win team.

who said this was a team that was going to win games? not me. ive constantly said we wont. who said there is star on this team?

lin having no future here has to do with his age and 3 younger guys ahead of him. no playing time. we need the cap space. hes gone.