Are the Nets meeting your expectations this year?

[Prokorov]

So the game threads have spiraled a bit so im making a seperate thread for this. Heavy criticism for Atkinson during the current 4 game slide. Sentiment is that he should make win now moves and not worry so much about development (i.e. riding guys struggling late in close games, holding out okafor, etc)

But yet we stand here today and:

-The team is on pace to win over 40% more games then last year (20 wins last year, 31 win pace this year)
-RHJ, Dinwiddie, and Levert have shown solid to remarkable improvement this season
-In the predictions thread, the mean was 34 wins )media sources all predicted 29 wins, lin fans represtend 40 plus wins predictions
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1596149&start=340#start_here

So my question is this:

What where your expectations for this team coming in and are they being met from both a competitive W/L standpoint and from a player improvement standpoint.

[Prokorov]

So the game threads have spiraled a bit so im making a seperate thread for this. Heavy criticism for Atkinson during the current 4 game slide. Sentiment is that he should make win now moves and not worry so much about development (i.e. riding guys struggling late in close games, holding out okafor, etc)

But yet we stand here today and:

-The team is on pace to win 40% more games then last year (20 wins last year, 28 win pace this year)
-RHJ, Dinwiddie, and Levert have shown solid to remarkable improvement this season
-In the predictions thread, the mean was 34 wins )media sources all predicted 29 wins, lin fans represtend 40 plus wins predictions
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1596149&start=340#start_here

So my question is this:

What where your expectations for this team coming in and are they being met from both a competitive W/L standpoint and from a player improvement standpoint.

For me expectations are being exceeded. We are right on pace for what i predicted for wins (29) but i didnt expect RHJ and dinwiddie to improve so quick. RHJ went from a train wreck on offense to be a positive impact offensive player and dinwiddie looks more like george hill every game.

RHJ may be in the running for most improved player.

Kenny makes alot of moves you would avoid if you were gunning for the playoffs, but the majority of the time it is to stick to their development principals of letting guys play through struggles regardless of game situation. and im on board with that

[MrDollarBills]

I expected(and predicted) 28 wins and improvement of the young guys.

so far we 11 wins and Dinwiddie, RHJ, and LeVert all are developing nicely with Russell, Crabbe, Allen, and Okafor pending. so far, so good.

the recent 4 game slide hasn't been easy to digest, but we are also down our top offensive talent in Russell, we miss Booker's presence and we have another piece that is getting prepared to play, all of that on top of Lin's injury. I think once we get fresh bodies into the rotation and up to speed, and we hit January through April I think we will not only hit my 28 win mark prediction but I think the Nets can get 30 wins, maybe even 32 because teams will be tanking and by the grace of the basketball gods we may just have good health.

[TheNetsFan]

I'd say we're meeting or slightly exceeding expectations. I initially predicted 28, then drank the Kool-Aid and bumped it up to 30. I said that I expected us to be about the 6th or 7th worst team That's probably where we end up. We're not a good team. It's all about seeing young guys develop. Allen, RHJ & especially LeVert are improving. Dinwiddie had a great stretch, but he's regressing back to a more modest improvement. Unfortunately, DLo has been hurt, so it'll be tough to gauge improvement for a while.

The losses are frustrating, but I keep reminding myself it's a process that's focused on 2020 and beyond. Wins and Losses are meaningless right now.

[Prokorov]

I'd say we're meeting or slightly exceeding expectations. I initially predicted 28, then drank the Kool-Aid and bumped it up to 30. I said that I expected us to be about the 6th or 7th worst team That's probably where we end up. We're not a good team. It's all about seeing young guys develop. Allen, RHJ & especially LeVert are improving. Dinwiddie had a great stretch, but he's regressing back to a more modest improvement. Unfortunately, DLo has been hurt, so it'll be tough to gauge improvement for a while.

The losses are frustrating, but I keep reminding myself it's a process that's focused on 2020 and beyond. Wins and Losses are meaningless right now.

Yeah I mean its tough not to get caught up when we string a few wins together but at the end of the day even with this losing streak we are on pace for 31 wins.

31 wins!

+11 wins from last years total given how much of an overhaul we had and injuries is kind of remarkable. I mean im the first to say i didnt think losing lopez would impact the bottom line but your stil replacing your best player and integrating 3 or 4 new starters.

[Prokorov]

I expected(and predicted) 28 wins and improvement of the young guys.

so far we 11 wins and Dinwiddie, RHJ, and LeVert all are developing nicely with Russell, Crabbe, Allen, and Okafor pending. so far, so good.

the recent 4 game slide hasn't been easy to digest, but we are also down our top offensive talent in Russell, we miss Booker's presence and we have another piece that is getting prepared to play, all of that on top of Lin's injury. I think once we get fresh bodies into the rotation and up to speed, and we hit January through April I think we will not only hit my 28 win mark prediction but I think the Nets can get 30 wins, maybe even 32 because teams will be tanking and by the grace of the basketball gods we may just have good health.

We are on pace to win 31 games now... even with a few slides here and there the late wins vs tank commanders and playoff teams resting should make up for it... the question i have isnt if we get there it is if we do does that meet your expectations.

it seems most are not satisfied winning 31 games this year

[treiz]

I expected(and predicted) 28 wins and improvement of the young guys.

so far we 11 wins and Dinwiddie, RHJ, and LeVert all are developing nicely with Russell, Crabbe, Allen, and Okafor pending. so far, so good.

the recent 4 game slide hasn't been easy to digest, but we are also down our top offensive talent in Russell, we miss Booker's presence and we have another piece that is getting prepared to play, all of that on top of Lin's injury. I think once we get fresh bodies into the rotation and up to speed, and we hit January through April I think we will not only hit my 28 win mark prediction but I think the Nets can get 30 wins, maybe even 32 because teams will be tanking and by the grace of the basketball gods we may just have good health.

Funny thing is, you predicted people would lose their **** in the summer after a few bad run of games.

I'm already predicting next year for people to lose their **** again when Allen is allowed to play through his struggles.

[TheNetsFan]

I'd say we're meeting or slightly exceeding expectations. I initially predicted 28, then drank the Kool-Aid and bumped it up to 30. I said that I expected us to be about the 6th or 7th worst team That's probably where we end up. We're not a good team. It's all about seeing young guys develop. Allen, RHJ & especially LeVert are improving. Dinwiddie had a great stretch, but he's regressing back to a more modest improvement. Unfortunately, DLo has been hurt, so it'll be tough to gauge improvement for a while.

The losses are frustrating, but I keep reminding myself it's a process that's focused on 2020 and beyond. Wins and Losses are meaningless right now.

Yeah I mean its tough not to get caught up when we string a few wins together but at the end of the day even with this losing streak we are on pace for 31 wins.

31 wins!

+11 wins from last years total given how much of an overhaul we had and injuries is kind of remarkable. I mean im the first to say i didnt think losing lopez would impact the bottom line but your stil replacing your best player and integrating 3 or 4 new starters.

The next 5-6 weeks are brutal. We won't be on pace for 31 wins for much longer. Our low point winning percentage-wise will be early February.

[MrDollarBills]

I expected(and predicted) 28 wins and improvement of the young guys.

so far we 11 wins and Dinwiddie, RHJ, and LeVert all are developing nicely with Russell, Crabbe, Allen, and Okafor pending. so far, so good.

the recent 4 game slide hasn't been easy to digest, but we are also down our top offensive talent in Russell, we miss Booker's presence and we have another piece that is getting prepared to play, all of that on top of Lin's injury. I think once we get fresh bodies into the rotation and up to speed, and we hit January through April I think we will not only hit my 28 win mark prediction but I think the Nets can get 30 wins, maybe even 32 because teams will be tanking and by the grace of the basketball gods we may just have good health.

Funny thing is, you predicted people would lose their **** in the summer after a few bad run of games.

I'm already predicting next year for people to lose their **** again when Allen is allowed to play through his struggles.

yep. Adversity hits for the first time for real and Kenny's getting marched to the gallows.

Allen will probably become a starter next season and he will have nights where he gets his ass kicked. and I know what will happen.

[Roy Tarpley]

My expectations, with a healthy team, was 40 wins. Without Lin and Russell, my expectation would have been a low 20 wins team. So the fact that we're on a pace for 30 wins right now is fantastic. This being said, I think this pace will go down to around low 20s wins by season's end, meaning my expectations would be on point.

From a player improvement standpoint, I think we're seeing exactly what we expected from Levert, RHJ, Dinwiddie, and Harris -- which is a solid progression. Crabbe and Acy have been big disappointments.

Overall, I'm disappointed by the injuries but pleased with how the team is managing given the circumstances.

[Prokorov]

My expectations, with a healthy team, was 40 wins. Without Lin and Russell, my expectation would have been a low 20 wins team. So the fact that we're on a pace for 30 wins right now is fantastic. This being said, I think this pace will go down to around low 20s wins by season's end, meaning my expectations would be on point.

From a player improvement standpoint, I think we're seeing exactly what we expected from Levert, RHJ, Dinwiddie, and Harris -- which is a solid progression.

Thinking Lin is worth 10-20 wins is absurd. he is a role player not a superstar.

I mean we finsihed the year i think 11-16 with Lin back and lopez in the lineup last year. we are 11-18 now with no lin or lopez or russell. so i dont think he really has this lebron like impact you believe he does.

How many times has a team DOUBLED its win total from the year prior after winning at least 15 games the year before?

the last time the nets did it was 2001 going from 25 to 52 wins. that team added the runner up for MVP Jason Kidd. Lin is not Jason Kidd

Crabbe and Acy have been big disappointments.

Crabbe isnt a dissapoitment in my eyes... as it isnt his fault that marks threw a huge contract at him. without that contract you would say he is doing well. how do I know? because without that contract he is the same guy as harris.. 25 year old taken #31 overall who is heavily reliant on catch and shoot threes... and you said you like what you see from harris.

Acy is the same guy he was last year only he started the season in a shooting slump. his raw numbers are identical to last year. he shot just 23% from three in november. 37% from three this month. if he shoots closer to his norm he is fine. you can expect much more then 6 points and 35% from three for a guy who plays 15 minutes and makes the minimum

[MrDollarBills]

Crabbe worries me moreso contract wise than on the court.

Overall, his commitment to defense has been a huge plus. I just want to see him improve on doing everything outside of spot up threes.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I still feel like 30 wins would be a good benchmark to show improvement.

And you always have to take injuries into account. Losing Jeremy Lin has hurt us a lot. Losing D-Angelo for a while has hurt us even more.

This team is definitely meeting expectations for me.

[Roy Tarpley]

Crabbe isnt a dissapoitment in my eyes... as it isnt his fault that marks threw a huge contract at him. without that contract you would say he is doing well. how do I know? because without that contract he is the same guy as harris.. 25 year old taken #31 overall who is heavily reliant on catch and shoot threes... and you said you like what you see from harris.

Acy is the same guy he was last year only he started the season in a shooting slump. his raw numbers are identical to last year. he shot just 23% from three in november. 37% from three this month. if he shoots closer to his norm he is fine. you can expect much more then 6 points and 35% from three for a guy who plays 15 minutes and makes the minimum

My assessment of Crabbe isn't based on his contract but on his per 36 numbers this year compared to his career numbers. In general, Crabbe's percentages are down (39% vs 45% FG) (37% 3pt vs 40%) compared to his career. His points are slightly up but that's just because he's taking more shots. His rebounding is slightly up but everything else is similar. This is basically his worst year since his rookie year.

Same for Acy. Overall numbers look similar to last year but his % are down. He's shooting 31% FG, which is atrocious.

Of course, these aren't static judgments. Crabbe and Acy can improve and my assessments can change. But given this snapshot in time, I am disappointed in Crabbe and Acy. Acy is just a role player so I don't really care, but Crabbe was given free rein this year and he's shooting has been off.

[Prokorov]

My assessment of Crabbe isn't based on his contract but on his per 36 numbers this year compared to his career numbers. In general, Crabbe's percentages are down (39% vs 45% FG) (37% 3pt vs 40%) compared to his career. His points are slightly up but that's just because he's taking more shots. His rebounding is slightly up but everything else is similar. This is basically his worst year since his rookie year.

You cant ask someone to take twice as many shots and not expect their shooting percentages to drop. only the elite of the elite can do that.

Same for Acy. Overall numbers look similar to last year but his % are down. He's shooting 31% FG, which is atrocious.

Raw FG% is basically useless and far inferior to TS%. especially for low minute roll players who take a dispropotionate amount of threes.

Acy takes 5 shots a game. of those 5 shots a game 4 of them are three point attemps. you wont shoot over 40% from the field in that scenario were 80% of your shots are from three

That said his shooting is down.... but its a small sample. he shot awful in november. he was much better outside of that one down month. Last year he shot 33% from three through december. he is at 33% from three right now. his raw stats are all in line. he is the same guy he was last year... just a typical early season shooting slump for him.

Of course, these aren't static judgments. Crabbe and Acy can improve and my assessments can change. But given this snapshot in time, I am disappointed in Crabbe and Acy. Acy is just a role player so I don't really care, but Crabbe was given free rein this year and he's shooting has been off.

im not sure why expectations for crabbe would be high. he was a low draft pick who in 4 years hasnt shown he is anything more then what we are seeing now. he didnt even start until he became a net and we had injuries to force him into the starting lineup. i know its easily to look at his salary but thats a marks thing not a crabbbe thing

[Claud]

I still feel good about my 32 win prediction if healthy. Considering all of the injuries we've had in my eyes we are making significant progress compared to last season. Levert, RHJ, Harris and Dinwiddie have established themselves as at least rotation players in this league which speaks volume of the coaching staff and internal player development.

The negatives so far are Crabbe's + Mozgov's struggles + contract and losing Booker who held the team together. Not sure if Jah has what it takes to be that guy for us. I feel similar about Stauskas. I see solid potential on offense but not sure about their defense. I want 2 way players only. The 2nd rounder is nice but I thought we could get maybe a late 1st rounder for Book?

Burning our cap space for Crabbe was not a wise decision but nobody's perfect. Hopefully the coaching staff can help him.

We need to also see internal growth from the Russell, Fro, IW, Jah. Stauskas next.

DMC and Zeller have been solid the entire year which helps to stay somewhat competitive.

I still think we'll finish close to 30 wins which is about as expected. This team is very young and inexperienced and expecting playoffs was unrealistic even with Lin who is solid 6th man/decent starter talent only.

If other guys take the jump then maybe we can realistic dream about playoffs next season but finally will have our pick so sucking is probably the best route. We are still looking for a franchise defining player and should stay flexible until we do so.

[MrDollarBills]

I expected(and predicted) 28 wins and improvement of the young guys.

so far we 11 wins and Dinwiddie, RHJ, and LeVert all are developing nicely with Russell, Crabbe, Allen, and Okafor pending. so far, so good.

the recent 4 game slide hasn't been easy to digest, but we are also down our top offensive talent in Russell, we miss Booker's presence and we have another piece that is getting prepared to play, all of that on top of Lin's injury. I think once we get fresh bodies into the rotation and up to speed, and we hit January through April I think we will not only hit my 28 win mark prediction but I think the Nets can get 30 wins, maybe even 32 because teams will be tanking and by the grace of the basketball gods we may just have good health.

We are on pace to win 31 games now... even with a few slides here and there the late wins vs tank commanders and playoff teams resting should make up for it... the question i have isnt if we get there it is if we do does that meet your expectations.

it seems most are not satisfied winning 31 games this year

I'd be pretty satisfied with 31 wins, especially in light of the awful injury luck we've had early on. then next year we aim for 42 and the playoffs.

[MrDollarBills]

You want to know who has exceeded my expectations? Tyler Zeller. I expected this guy to just be a practice body but he actually goes out there and competes hard, and stays within his lane. 8.6ppg 4.7rpg 16 PER rating with a a 64% TS percentage and he's been fairly competent from the deep hitting 38% from downtown (5 for 13 on 3pters). He gets his ass kicked here and there (like last night...Randolph gave him the business ) but the guy plays hard. Solid signing on the cheap and he gives you decent mins either as a stop gap starter or a solid back up C that fits this system to a T.

[MrDollarBills]

Crabbe isnt a dissapoitment in my eyes... as it isnt his fault that marks threw a huge contract at him. without that contract you would say he is doing well. how do I know? because without that contract he is the same guy as harris.. 25 year old taken #31 overall who is heavily reliant on catch and shoot threes... and you said you like what you see from harris.

Acy is the same guy he was last year only he started the season in a shooting slump. his raw numbers are identical to last year. he shot just 23% from three in november. 37% from three this month. if he shoots closer to his norm he is fine. you can expect much more then 6 points and 35% from three for a guy who plays 15 minutes and makes the minimum

My assessment of Crabbe isn't based on his contract but on his per 36 numbers this year compared to his career numbers. In general, Crabbe's percentages are down (39% vs 45% FG) (37% 3pt vs 40%) compared to his career. His points are slightly up but that's just because he's taking more shots. His rebounding is slightly up but everything else is similar. This is basically his worst year since his rookie year.

Same for Acy. Overall numbers look similar to last year but his % are down. He's shooting 31% FG, which is atrocious.

Of course, these aren't static judgments. Crabbe and Acy can improve and my assessments can change. But given this snapshot in time, I am disappointed in Crabbe and Acy. Acy is just a role player so I don't really care, but Crabbe was given free rein this year and he's shooting has been off.

37% is still a solid percentage from downtown. I kind of expected his shooting efficiency to dip with more shots. what I worry about is that we need to see him add more to his game overall, threes are fine but I need to see him actually add something to his offensive skill set. I think his defense has been pretty decent actually so that's a positive development. but we need more on offense, and we can't have him playing like he did last night versus Sacto. he is too good of a shooter to be firing up duds like that.

[Roy Tarpley]

Crabbe isnt a dissapoitment in my eyes... as it isnt his fault that marks threw a huge contract at him. without that contract you would say he is doing well. how do I know? because without that contract he is the same guy as harris.. 25 year old taken #31 overall who is heavily reliant on catch and shoot threes... and you said you like what you see from harris.

Acy is the same guy he was last year only he started the season in a shooting slump. his raw numbers are identical to last year. he shot just 23% from three in november. 37% from three this month. if he shoots closer to his norm he is fine. you can expect much more then 6 points and 35% from three for a guy who plays 15 minutes and makes the minimum

My assessment of Crabbe isn't based on his contract but on his per 36 numbers this year compared to his career numbers. In general, Crabbe's percentages are down (39% vs 45% FG) (37% 3pt vs 40%) compared to his career. His points are slightly up but that's just because he's taking more shots. His rebounding is slightly up but everything else is similar. This is basically his worst year since his rookie year.

Same for Acy. Overall numbers look similar to last year but his % are down. He's shooting 31% FG, which is atrocious.

Of course, these aren't static judgments. Crabbe and Acy can improve and my assessments can change. But given this snapshot in time, I am disappointed in Crabbe and Acy. Acy is just a role player so I don't really care, but Crabbe was given free rein this year and he's shooting has been off.

37% is still a solid percentage from downtown. I kind of expected his shooting efficiency to dip with more shots. what I worry about is that we need to see him add more to his game overall, threes are fine but I need to see him actually add something to his offensive skill set. I think his defense has been pretty decent actually so that's a positive development. but we need more on offense, and we can't have him playing like he did last night versus Sacto. he is too good of a shooter to be firing up duds like that.

Yeah, to me, everything is relative to your own capabilities. So if RHJ is shooting 37% from downtown, that's awesome because it's a good percentage in general but also because RHJ is a sub 30% shooter. But Crabbe was the #2 3PT shooter in the league last year so 37% is not that great for him, even with the increase in shooting. Korver's 3pt % actually seemed to increase the more shots he took. Steph Curry is shooting 38% this year, which is good for most people, but not for Curry whose average is 44%.

But you're right that Crabbe's defense has been surprisingly decent given how bad he was last year on D.