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The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II

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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#181 » by IcyVeins » Wed May 23, 2018 7:07 pm

Prokorov wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:Draft picks are hard to come by now....

The Pistons gave away a first rounder, which ended up being a mid first round pick to the Clippers for Blake, who was considered a superstar in the NBA. (They also got Tobias and Avery, but I think both were just fill ins)

Teams wanted DLO, however, they wanted zero part of Mozgov's contract.

Regarding Dlo's contract situation, etc. Some of the numbers you guys put is quite laughable.


Blake was on a huge deal and injured. not apples to apples.

Russell is a lock to make 20 million. people are under estimating what a GM on the hot seat whose plans 1,b,and c fall through will do. how do you think these bad contracts happen all the time?


What's going to happen is the Nets will either do a Wiggins or let him leave for nothing (similar to what might happen to randle and Aaron Gordon. The numbers that were suggested here were downright impossible to resign DLO, knowing his value in a combo guard league.

As I said before, Nets will have to decide soon if they want to give DLO the big deal or ride out with the insurance policy of Spencer D and potential groom Caris as the future PG (Unless the nets get lucky with draft picks in the next few drafts)... BTW, Brunson is reported to be the pick according to many media sources...
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#182 » by Prokorov » Wed May 23, 2018 7:21 pm

IcyVeins wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:Draft picks are hard to come by now....

The Pistons gave away a first rounder, which ended up being a mid first round pick to the Clippers for Blake, who was considered a superstar in the NBA. (They also got Tobias and Avery, but I think both were just fill ins)

Teams wanted DLO, however, they wanted zero part of Mozgov's contract.

Regarding Dlo's contract situation, etc. Some of the numbers you guys put is quite laughable.


Blake was on a huge deal and injured. not apples to apples.

Russell is a lock to make 20 million. people are under estimating what a GM on the hot seat whose plans 1,b,and c fall through will do. how do you think these bad contracts happen all the time?


What's going to happen is the Nets will either do a Wiggins or let him leave for nothing (similar to what might happen to randle and Aaron Gordon. The numbers that were suggested here were downright impossible to resign DLO, knowing his value in a combo guard league.

As I said before, Nets will have to decide soon if they want to give DLO the big deal or ride out with the insurance policy of Spencer D and potential groom Caris as the future PG (Unless the nets get lucky with draft picks in the next few drafts)... BTW, Brunson is reported to be the pick according to many media sources...


Which is why we need to trade him now for whatever we can get
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#183 » by IcyVeins » Wed May 23, 2018 7:29 pm

Prokorov wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Blake was on a huge deal and injured. not apples to apples.

Russell is a lock to make 20 million. people are under estimating what a GM on the hot seat whose plans 1,b,and c fall through will do. how do you think these bad contracts happen all the time?


What's going to happen is the Nets will either do a Wiggins or let him leave for nothing (similar to what might happen to randle and Aaron Gordon. The numbers that were suggested here were downright impossible to resign DLO, knowing his value in a combo guard league.

As I said before, Nets will have to decide soon if they want to give DLO the big deal or ride out with the insurance policy of Spencer D and potential groom Caris as the future PG (Unless the nets get lucky with draft picks in the next few drafts)... BTW, Brunson is reported to be the pick according to many media sources...


Which is why we need to trade him now for whatever we can get


Maybe.

However, I think Marks is basically going to see how DLO and the Nets do and potentially trade him midseason or let him leave during free agency... DLO going to get a big contract and if the Nets dont offer, hes going to leave for nothing pretty much...

(Think reason why they didnt trade Spencer is because he would be the insurance policy...)

So, if DLO explodes and the nets resign to big deal, they can let spencer go via free agency. IF DLo doesn't give the FO confidence, he will either be traded or the nets will lose him for nothing.

Not trading Spencer really showed the lack of confidence they had in DLO and his status with the franchise moving forward (when you essentially have 3 guys that best position is the 1 in Caris, SPencer and DLO)
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#184 » by TheNetsFan » Wed May 23, 2018 7:50 pm

Prokorov wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Blake was on a huge deal and injured. not apples to apples.

Russell is a lock to make 20 million. people are under estimating what a GM on the hot seat whose plans 1,b,and c fall through will do. how do you think these bad contracts happen all the time?


What's going to happen is the Nets will either do a Wiggins or let him leave for nothing (similar to what might happen to randle and Aaron Gordon. The numbers that were suggested here were downright impossible to resign DLO, knowing his value in a combo guard league.

As I said before, Nets will have to decide soon if they want to give DLO the big deal or ride out with the insurance policy of Spencer D and potential groom Caris as the future PG (Unless the nets get lucky with draft picks in the next few drafts)... BTW, Brunson is reported to be the pick according to many media sources...


Which is why we need to trade him now for whatever we can get

No. Unless somebody presents an offer we can't refuse, you see how he develops with a full offseason & hopefully healthy first half of the season. Then you make a decision. You don't give up on a guy with his potential for pennies on the dollar after only an injury divided 48 games. He has talent on a team void of talent. He's not going to get quicker, so he needs to get stronger. That's what the performance team needs to focus on. Get him that Harden/Eric Gordon build, and he'll be much better off.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#185 » by vincecarter4pres » Wed May 23, 2018 8:12 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:
What's going to happen is the Nets will either do a Wiggins or let him leave for nothing (similar to what might happen to randle and Aaron Gordon. The numbers that were suggested here were downright impossible to resign DLO, knowing his value in a combo guard league.

As I said before, Nets will have to decide soon if they want to give DLO the big deal or ride out with the insurance policy of Spencer D and potential groom Caris as the future PG (Unless the nets get lucky with draft picks in the next few drafts)... BTW, Brunson is reported to be the pick according to many media sources...


Which is why we need to trade him now for whatever we can get

No. Unless somebody presents an offer we can't refuse, you see how he develops with a full offseason & hopefully healthy first half of the season. Then you make a decision. You don't give up on a guy with his potential for pennies on the dollar after only an injury divided 48 games. He has talent on a team void of talent. He's not going to get quicker, so he needs to get stronger. That's what the performance team needs to focus on. Get him that Harden/Eric Gordon build, and he'll be much better off.

You guys keep saying this kind of stuff and I'm still miffed, as in you think D-Lo is athletic, or quick.

Idc what anyone says, Harden is a well above average athlete. Just because he isn't Russell Westbrook, Zach LeVine, Lebron James athletic where he's throwing down 2 handed tomahawks from 12 feet out in traffic, does not mean D-Lo compares to him in the least, nor does it mean he's an average athlete. His end to end speed, first step, burst, change of direction, it's all straight up elite. Not just good, elite. There are more things to being an athlete then jumping high and far. Guys like Westbrook, LeVine, James, they can do most of what Harden can, probably better, plus jump out of the gym. Those players are the absolute cream of the crop athletes, but again, just because Harden isn't the top 10 in the world athlete those guys are, doesn't make him an average athlete, or just a hair above at the NBA level. He is one step below freak.

And Eric Gordon? Even after the injuries and even after altering his game a bit to avoid future risk, still a lot more athletic then D.

Russell is legit a below average athlete in the NBA, especially for a guard. He's akin to a Steve Nash, maybe a Mike Conley, or Goran Dragic.

I'm not saying you're wrong to say he should strengthen up, you are absolutely correct, but people just need to come clean with it, you cannot compare him to guys who are athletic in any context.

Maybe I'm assuming that's what you meant, but I see people say this stuff all the time. Like yes, he'll be better off with a Harden-like physique, but he will never be the athlete Harden is. Chauncey Billups is more likely and even then, Billups had really good lateral quicks and super high bbiq on the defensive end to blend in perfectly to top team defensive schemes.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#186 » by Prokorov » Wed May 23, 2018 8:30 pm

IcyVeins wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:
What's going to happen is the Nets will either do a Wiggins or let him leave for nothing (similar to what might happen to randle and Aaron Gordon. The numbers that were suggested here were downright impossible to resign DLO, knowing his value in a combo guard league.

As I said before, Nets will have to decide soon if they want to give DLO the big deal or ride out with the insurance policy of Spencer D and potential groom Caris as the future PG (Unless the nets get lucky with draft picks in the next few drafts)... BTW, Brunson is reported to be the pick according to many media sources...


Which is why we need to trade him now for whatever we can get


Maybe.

However, I think Marks is basically going to see how DLO and the Nets do and potentially trade him midseason or let him leave during free agency... DLO going to get a big contract and if the Nets dont offer, hes going to leave for nothing pretty much...

(Think reason why they didnt trade Spencer is because he would be the insurance policy...)

So, if DLO explodes and the nets resign to big deal, they can let spencer go via free agency. IF DLo doesn't give the FO confidence, he will either be traded or the nets will lose him for nothing.

Not trading Spencer really showed the lack of confidence they had in DLO and his status with the franchise moving forward (when you essentially have 3 guys that best position is the 1 in Caris, SPencer and DLO)


they can still trade dinwiddie. i dont think it has anything to do with DLO. spencer doesnt get you back much in return anyhow. maybe a second rounder or two.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#187 » by IcyVeins » Wed May 23, 2018 8:49 pm

Prokorov wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Which is why we need to trade him now for whatever we can get


Maybe.

However, I think Marks is basically going to see how DLO and the Nets do and potentially trade him midseason or let him leave during free agency... DLO going to get a big contract and if the Nets dont offer, hes going to leave for nothing pretty much...

(Think reason why they didnt trade Spencer is because he would be the insurance policy...)

So, if DLO explodes and the nets resign to big deal, they can let spencer go via free agency. IF DLo doesn't give the FO confidence, he will either be traded or the nets will lose him for nothing.

Not trading Spencer really showed the lack of confidence they had in DLO and his status with the franchise moving forward (when you essentially have 3 guys that best position is the 1 in Caris, SPencer and DLO)


they can still trade dinwiddie. i dont think it has anything to do with DLO. spencer doesnt get you back much in return anyhow. maybe a second rounder or two.


Tell that to this board that thinks his valuation is mid first round pick
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#188 » by vincecarter4pres » Wed May 23, 2018 8:53 pm

IcyVeins wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:
Maybe.

However, I think Marks is basically going to see how DLO and the Nets do and potentially trade him midseason or let him leave during free agency... DLO going to get a big contract and if the Nets dont offer, hes going to leave for nothing pretty much...

(Think reason why they didnt trade Spencer is because he would be the insurance policy...)

So, if DLO explodes and the nets resign to big deal, they can let spencer go via free agency. IF DLo doesn't give the FO confidence, he will either be traded or the nets will lose him for nothing.

Not trading Spencer really showed the lack of confidence they had in DLO and his status with the franchise moving forward (when you essentially have 3 guys that best position is the 1 in Caris, SPencer and DLO)


they can still trade dinwiddie. i dont think it has anything to do with DLO. spencer doesnt get you back much in return anyhow. maybe a second rounder or two.


Tell that to this board that thinks his valuation is mid first round pick

Still think that any of picks 20, 21, 23, 24 and 26 make perfect sense for him though, from the other teams' perspective.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#189 » by Prokorov » Wed May 23, 2018 8:59 pm

IcyVeins wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:
Maybe.

However, I think Marks is basically going to see how DLO and the Nets do and potentially trade him midseason or let him leave during free agency... DLO going to get a big contract and if the Nets dont offer, hes going to leave for nothing pretty much...

(Think reason why they didnt trade Spencer is because he would be the insurance policy...)

So, if DLO explodes and the nets resign to big deal, they can let spencer go via free agency. IF DLo doesn't give the FO confidence, he will either be traded or the nets will lose him for nothing.

Not trading Spencer really showed the lack of confidence they had in DLO and his status with the franchise moving forward (when you essentially have 3 guys that best position is the 1 in Caris, SPencer and DLO)


they can still trade dinwiddie. i dont think it has anything to do with DLO. spencer doesnt get you back much in return anyhow. maybe a second rounder or two.


Tell that to this board that thinks his valuation is mid first round pick


It depends on the circumstance. are we taking on salary in addition to giving up dinwiddie? are we adding #29 or our second round selections?
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#190 » by Prokorov » Wed May 23, 2018 9:00 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
they can still trade dinwiddie. i dont think it has anything to do with DLO. spencer doesnt get you back much in return anyhow. maybe a second rounder or two.


Tell that to this board that thinks his valuation is mid first round pick

Still think that any of picks 20, 21, 23, 24 and 26 make perfect sense for him though, from the other teams' perspective.


i think 29 and dinwiddie might move you up to that range. i dont think he gets there by himself. but as i said in the other threads it only takes 1 GM out of 29 to overvalue something for it to happen
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#191 » by MrDollarBills » Wed May 23, 2018 9:04 pm

Who has more value, Dinwiddie or Trey Lyles? Because Utah screwed Denver badly last year.

All it takes is one dumb GM...
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#192 » by Prokorov » Wed May 23, 2018 9:24 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Who has more value, Dinwiddie or Trey Lyles? Because Utah screwed Denver badly last year.

All it takes is one dumb GM...



I'd have to think Lyles...

-he was 21 to dinwiddies 25/26
-had 2 years left on his deal to dinwiddie who is expiring
-statistical edge tips in dinwidies favor but evens out when you consider a stretch big has more value then a backup pg?
-Lyles was a lottery pick, who was projected higher then #12 where he was taken due to injury
-He is a super athlete and long

on paper, lyles is the dream bigman prospect... 6'10" with very good wingspan, and great leaper who dunks on people, can put it on the floor, and can shoot from three (38%).

GMs go crazy for that stuff

in hindsight the deal is awful cause mitchell is a stud.... but if you needed a big you trade #13 for lyels who is a 21 year old big who was taken #13 2 years ago and get #24. you can justify that.

if the jazz took Luke Kenard (taken 12th) or Adebayo (taken 14th) instead of mitchell that trade suddenly looks really good. especially when you consider the nuggets were never going to take mitchell when they have Murray
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#193 » by IcyVeins » Wed May 23, 2018 10:05 pm

Prokorov wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:
IcyVeins wrote:
Tell that to this board that thinks his valuation is mid first round pick

Still think that any of picks 20, 21, 23, 24 and 26 make perfect sense for him though, from the other teams' perspective.


i think 29 and dinwiddie might move you up to that range. i dont think he gets there by himself. but as i said in the other threads it only takes 1 GM out of 29 to overvalue something for it to happen


Just cause it takes one dumb GM doesn't make his value a mid first round pick....

Like I said before, Just cause Mitch signed Mozgov and Deng to terrible contracts doesn't mean that is their true valuation...

Cavs were in desperate mode and just wanted to trade for anyone since it was probably their last run at a Championship (and cause IT was being a Pain in the A)
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#194 » by vincecarter4pres » Wed May 23, 2018 10:23 pm

IcyVeins wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Still think that any of picks 20, 21, 23, 24 and 26 make perfect sense for him though, from the other teams' perspective.


i think 29 and dinwiddie might move you up to that range. i dont think he gets there by himself. but as i said in the other threads it only takes 1 GM out of 29 to overvalue something for it to happen


Just cause it takes one dumb GM doesn't make his value a mid first round pick....

Like I said before, Just cause Mitch signed Mozgov and Deng to terrible contracts doesn't mean that is their true valuation...

Cavs were in desperate mode and just wanted to trade for anyone since it was probably their last run at a Championship (and cause IT was being a Pain in the A)

The tear Widdie was on pre-All Star break was something else though and it looked legit, because he looked legit the season prior as well, that he was finally turning the corner. Many here, myself included, felt he was shaping up to be the new George Hill. Post break he looked relatively terrible though and couldn't fit with another ball handler, especially Russell.

I think there were GM's that saw the same pre-break which we saw here and actually valued him. I still think some GM's will value him, he is a legit NBA player, he still has remaining ceiling and he can help a good team more than a lot of the unknown of a 20's pick rookie could or even might in the future. And a team over the cap will have his Bird Rights, so even if he "only" gets a contract similar to a full MLE deal, they can sign another player with their MLE and re-sign him with Bird Rights after.

The NBA isn't entirely about rookie contracts and the hope of potential. Contenders and strong playoff teams often strive to attain a player like Dinwiddie, who has experience, is good, young and athletic and can likely be re-signed to a reasonable deal and has some remaining legitimate ceiling. For a team like ours, he makes little sense though, unless they are thinking of letting go of Russell if he under-performs again and even then, that's all the more reason they won't care about replacing him at that point in time. The NBA is almost entirely about rookie contracts and potential for a team like ours.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#195 » by MrDollarBills » Thu May 24, 2018 2:54 am

^Should Dinwiddie be capped at how he finished the season though? I think the fact that he finished as a finalist for MIP kind of says to me that his value may not be as low as we think it is.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#196 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu May 24, 2018 3:50 am

MrDollarBills wrote:^Should Dinwiddie be capped at how he finished the season though? I think the fact that he finished as a finalist for MIP kind of says to me that his value may not be as low as we think it is.

No, I do not believe his upside should be capped indefinitely. He's a solid athlete, good first step, one foot jumper with some stealthy explosion, isn't afraid to take big shots, good size and length and has a passion for the game and wants to win.

But his jumper does have a weird hidden hitch to it and his shot selection is often abdominal. Also, he's a solid playmaker, but his crazy A/TO ration is more the product of either being safe to a fault, or pounding the ball into oblivion and last second drive and kicking. In general he's just an inefficient scorer as well, because he relies on his streaky mediocre jumper too much, at least and especially when his role and responsibilities are expanded too wide.

I'm not dramatically swinging from thinking he's the next George Hill to thinking he's a scrub, but George Hill, even in his prime was replaceable and we aren't in a dire need for a player like that at this current moment.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#197 » by Paradise » Sat Jun 9, 2018 10:08 pm

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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#198 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Jun 9, 2018 11:00 pm

Russell's efficiency issues kind of derail the author's point imo.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#199 » by shakendfries » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:22 pm

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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#200 » by rocketsfan100 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:27 am

MrDollarBills wrote:the fact that you made a new account just to troll this board is whats really funny. good luck.

Yep these Lin fans are mentally deranged. This is their calling card. They create multiple different accounts and troll. Sometimes they reply to themselves and carry on agreeing with their different accounts.

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