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The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II

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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1561 » by Prokorov » Wed May 1, 2019 7:24 pm

DeRoma wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Adding a Durant or Leonard makes everyone on this roster 10x better. The idea that Russell can't play with anyone else is not even remotely based in fact. Russell had no issues going off ball when LeVert is doing work and vice versa.

Trying to paint Russell as a) some schmuck that will be out of the league after posting an all star season and b) trying to basically paint him as selfish because of his usage, which frankly had to be high this season otherwise the Nets had no chance of winning games with both LeVert and Dinwiddie going down, is utterly ridiculous.

I'm all for being critical of how Russell performed versus Philly, but when we start talking nonsense about dudes being out of the league at age 23 following an all star appearance, that veers into the "you've got an obvious agenda" territory.



It's not base on facts. However, there are more evidence that he can't than he can.

Yes, I definitely see teams not giving him anything below the MLE if he continues to play the he has. Which I can see him refusing to accept which ultimately leads him to china is plausible.

I mean a player who demands the ball at the same time an awful off-the ball player when he is not even that dangerous as an initiator can mean that he is a selfish so that's also is plausible

The fact that you are being overly too sensitive to a statement referring I have other "agendas" especially, when plenty of NBA fans (even a few Nets fans) do have the same perception of how I'm seeing DLO, makes me think you are just forcing an issue. All I'm saying is maybe you should reevaluate your position and take a more objective approach. While only looking at the Nets and see what we can realistically do is the way to push the franchise forward. You also need to evaluate correctly into the comparison of the competition to really see where you stand.

I'm not here insinuating we should not resign dlo because I think if we miss out on Kyrie/Kemba we definitely need push for DLO because thats our best move. However, if we have aspirations on contending in the future. We need to be cognizant of who DLO truly is.

To be perfectly clear my intentions with him did not change. We spoke about this a few months and we concluded that we need to see what his capabilities are during the playoffs. Which we then saw and it was a complete failure. Yet, from what I'm seeing is that you are still giving him another excuse.


it is impossible to to come to any other conclusion then you having an agenda when you are saying if someone makes 6 straight all-star teams as the best player on a playoff team that they will be out of the league, in china, or at best get less then the MLE.

ABSURD.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1562 » by Prokorov » Wed May 1, 2019 7:26 pm

DeRoma wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
DeRoma wrote:what's the difference between a Kawhi taking away shots to DLO vs. LeVert taking away shots from DLO? How will his production excel when off the ball production is pretty much non-existent? I mean we've seen similar situation when another high volume USG player is next to him (i.e. Kobe). Didn't see him excelling at all to be frank...


The difference is Kawhi is an elite player and Levert while good is not close to an elite player.

When levert has it going, like he did vs. philly, he can revert Russell to a second option. Levert isnt going to give you 25 ppg on elite efficiency with 38-40% shooting from three over an 82 game season year after year.

Kawhi WILL do that. he will give you that kind of scoring, efficiency, and range shooting. russell wont need to be the guy as often, or ever with Kawhi here...

Further, Kawhi doesnt need high usage or need to initiate the offense to score and impact the game. Levert isnt the offball player Kawhi is. So you can put Russell where he excels, initiating the offense/pick and roll whiel still having kawhi do his damage to the fullest.

Levert/Russell can play together, but still not the fit Dlo and Kawhi would be.

there really is no comparison here



So you're expecting Kawhi to sacrifice touches so DLO can have James Harden types of touches? GOTCHA!


He wouldnt need to sacrafic touches. nor did anyone say that he would.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1563 » by Prokorov » Wed May 1, 2019 7:26 pm

DeRoma wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
DeRoma wrote:This idea that he is only 23 is laughable.


It isnt an "idea" that he is 23.

It is a fact that he is 23. like he was born in 1996. its not some arbitrary subjective thing. the kid is 23. and if you look at the production of 23 year olds either the last few decades or throughout NBA history... even if you only look at top 5 picks, Russell stacks up favorably to all of them and better then most.

You can pretty much say that to most of our core players and some of them played well. Allen, Caris, Dinwiddie, we all in their first time yet, they played decently well. I mean i'm impress how Allen held himself together, when he is actually younger than DLO against the toughest assignment for our players.


most of those guys are asked to do less. and most of them played poorly, just didnt get the criticism. Kurucs for instance had his numbers down across the board, shot 40% FG and 25% from three and was not able to slow down anyone on philly.

Joe Harris shot 19% from threem 27% from the field and his scoring was almost cut in half.

Dinwiddie played ok and shot well. his numbers were down from the regular season although he did shoot better from three.

Allen played well offensivelt when embiid was off the floor... but philly has little depth and boban is awful outside of stand still post defense.

its a 5 game series vs a much better team. it is too small of a sample size to gauge anything and beyond that these guys are young and its their first series. when russells shot was falling he was going off on spurts and he was really the only guy who did much in the 4th quarter besides levert.

his shot simply wasnt falling. as he gets older, he will develop and find more ways to score when his shot is off... he has already made huge strides in that area from last year to this year



Allen is 21, LeVert is 24 what's their excuse of playing well?


small sample size. same reason harris and russell and kurucs were poor.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1564 » by Prokorov » Wed May 1, 2019 7:28 pm

DeRoma wrote:
gigantes wrote:Btw, how's the weather on Mars?

If you mean having an actual real opinion and not falling on the force hype the social media is pushing for? Pretty nice weather.


no one here supporting russell is going on hype. we are all going on fact.

you are the one going on some subjective nonsense.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1565 » by Prokorov » Wed May 1, 2019 7:29 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:I've been going around in circles on DLo's contract value. Early on, I was estimating 4/$80mil-5/$100mil. More recently, I was thinking 5/$130mil. I'm now wondering if the Nets are pointing to Bledsoe's extension & trying to use that as a benchmark. Right now, I'd put DLo & Bledsoe on about the same, borderline allstar tier. DLo should get more due to the age gap, but how much more? Bledsoe was extended at 4/$70mil. Does that set the market? Probably not, but I'm sure Marks will use that as a starting # in negotiations. That brings me back full circle to a $20mil per average. I think that's fair, but in FA everyone gets overpaid.


I think russell and his agent will use booker and towns extensions. as they are from the same draft, same/similar age and also all-stars
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1566 » by MGrand15 » Wed May 1, 2019 8:11 pm

I think Russell has to do a better job of playing off ball (especially next to Dinwiddie) since he's such a good spot up shooter but that's not entirely on him. Dinwiddie deferred too much to Russell. He seems to do that when he's not the primary ball handler. It's also on the coaching staff. They can call plays and we have specific ones to get our SG in PNRs. Russell also has leeway to do that but it's not 100% on him.

When Russell plays with LeVert, there's really no issue. LeVert is aggressive but even if his assists are low, he's not a selfish player.

With that said, you guys are arguing with someone that thinks Russell might be out of the league in 4-5 years when he's hitting his prime. That just isn't logical.

His struggles against Philly show that he needs to continue to improve because teams are going to continue to put big wings on him as long as we start someone like Joe Harris. I don't think it was a sample size thing at all. It's a tough matchup for even the best PGs in the league. Lowry isn't doing much better and he has a much better team around him. It's not evidence he's not good. If we played any other Eastern team outside of maybe Toronto, Russell would've been his normal self.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1567 » by MrDollarBills » Wed May 1, 2019 8:22 pm

MGrand15 wrote:I think Russell has to do a better job of playing off ball (especially next to Dinwiddie) since he's such a good spot up shooter but that's not entirely on him. Dinwiddie deferred too much to Russell. He seems to do that when he's not the primary ball handler. It's also on the coaching staff. They can call plays and we have specific ones to get our SG in PNRs. Russell also has leeway to do that but it's not 100% on him.

When Russell plays with LeVert, there's really no issue. LeVert is aggressive but even if his assists are low, he's not a selfish player.

With that said, you guys are arguing with someone that thinks Russell might be out of the league in 4-5 years when he's hitting his prime. That just isn't logical.

His struggles against Philly show that he needs to continue to improve because teams are going to continue to put big wings on him as long as we start someone like Joe Harris. I don't think it was a sample size thing at all. It's a tough matchup for even the best PGs in the league. Lowry isn't doing much better and he has a much better team around him. It's not evidence he's not good. If we played any other Eastern team outside of maybe Toronto, Russell would've been his normal self.


I think the coaching staff has to make a point of emphasis for Russell to become a solid catch and shoot player as well when he's on the floor with Dinwiddie/LeVert. When you have two downhill ball handlers like Dinwiddie and LeVert it makes sense for Russell to be prepared to catch a kickout pass on a drive once the defense gets sucked in.

Simple adjustment to me really. Of course, Russell has to work on getting stronger and better. I could care less about his speed. Him being able to finish through contact or drawing fouls at the rim has to be a next step for him. No more short arming layups.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1568 » by DeRoma » Wed May 1, 2019 10:19 pm

SpeedyG wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I've been going around in circles on DLo's contract value. Early on, I was estimating 4/$80mil-5/$100mil. More recently, I was thinking 5/$130mil. I'm now wondering if the Nets are pointing to Bledsoe's extension & trying to use that as a benchmark. Right now, I'd put DLo & Bledsoe on about the same, borderline allstar tier. DLo should get more due to the age gap, but how much more? Bledsoe was extended at 4/$70mil. Does that set the market? Probably not, but I'm sure Marks will use that as a starting # in negotiations. That brings me back full circle to a $20mil per average. I think that's fair, but in FA everyone gets overpaid.


I have no issue with 20-22 mil per.


Hmm i wonder if Russell is willing to play ball...

Wonder if we can offer him a $124M over 5 year deal. We can basicly start him at about $17M for 2019, lowering his cap hit by $4M from the hold. This SHOULD be the space we need for a Durant MAX.

Now, to make it worth it for Russell, we would give him an Player/ETO after two years.

Why 2 years? Because that would give him 6 years of eligibility, which means his MAX at that point is 30% (instead of the 25%).

Basically, we can resign him to a fair deal that gives him security while maximizing our cap space to go after a Durant.

And if Russell is really balling, he can ETO in 2021, make up the money he "lost" earlier to sign a larger max deal.

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I'm down with this. I believe this is a fair spot for both parties.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1569 » by DeRoma » Wed May 1, 2019 10:32 pm

MGrand15 wrote:I think Russell has to do a better job of playing off ball (especially next to Dinwiddie) since he's such a good spot up shooter but that's not entirely on him. Dinwiddie deferred too much to Russell. He seems to do that when he's not the primary ball handler. It's also on the coaching staff. They can call plays and we have specific ones to get our SG in PNRs. Russell also has leeway to do that but it's not 100% on him.

When Russell plays with LeVert, there's really no issue. LeVert is aggressive but even if his assists are low, he's not a selfish player.

With that said, you guys are arguing with someone that thinks Russell might be out of the league in 4-5 years when he's hitting his prime. That just isn't logical.

His struggles against Philly show that he needs to continue to improve because teams are going to continue to put big wings on him as long as we start someone like Joe Harris. I don't think it was a sample size thing at all. It's a tough matchup for even the best PGs in the league. Lowry isn't doing much better and he has a much better team around him. It's not evidence he's not good. If we played any other Eastern team outside of maybe Toronto, Russell would've been his normal self.


How is my speculation not possible? Was it not possible for Carmelo, Iverson, Marbury, and plenty of other talented players to be out of the league so quickly? Until Russell learns how to play off the ball my statement definitely in the realm of possibility. Even if he is not as selfish in comparison to the players i mentioned above. He can still be categorize along with those players because he is not talented enough to live and die by him like the way the Rockets play James Harden.

Even if we play Toronto they would just put Lowry on Harris to chase him around and put a bigger player like Danny Green or Kawhi on Russell to shut him down. That's really not fixing the issue.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1570 » by gigantes » Wed May 1, 2019 10:42 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:...Simple adjustment to me really. Of course, Russell has to work on getting stronger and better. I could care less about his speed. Him being able to finish through contact or drawing fouls at the rim has to be a next step for him. No more short arming layups.

I'd commented a couple months ago on that, but don't recall anyone responding. Lemme try again:

It seems like from the games I watched, Russell started the season as the finesse-type player we were already familiar with, and maybe around the midway point it became noticeable that he wasn't flinching away from contact quite so much, and was starting to consistently make the classic NBA foul-drawing moves & gestures. Over the course of the season I believe he averaged one more FT/game than he started with, on pretty much the same mpg. (but probably more USG, but still)

Point is-- he's not there yet, but he does seem headed in the right direction. It looks like DLo started laying down a muscle-memory foundation that he can continue to improve on, particularly with added strength.

But just in general, this young guy seems to have a superb attitude-- humble, but hungry. Wide-eyed, but motivated to do all the right things to improve. A lot like LeVert, I think. (and needles to say, the opposite of a Carmelo) That's similar to others on the team, of course, but Russell is in more of a formative phase right now. Side note-- DWid is an interesting contrast, in that he seems more like the typical NBA badass who insists on doing things his way. At least, by Nets standards.

Just some Earthly observations. :P
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1571 » by MrDollarBills » Thu May 2, 2019 8:45 am

DeRoma wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:I think Russell has to do a better job of playing off ball (especially next to Dinwiddie) since he's such a good spot up shooter but that's not entirely on him. Dinwiddie deferred too much to Russell. He seems to do that when he's not the primary ball handler. It's also on the coaching staff. They can call plays and we have specific ones to get our SG in PNRs. Russell also has leeway to do that but it's not 100% on him.

When Russell plays with LeVert, there's really no issue. LeVert is aggressive but even if his assists are low, he's not a selfish player.

With that said, you guys are arguing with someone that thinks Russell might be out of the league in 4-5 years when he's hitting his prime. That just isn't logical.

His struggles against Philly show that he needs to continue to improve because teams are going to continue to put big wings on him as long as we start someone like Joe Harris. I don't think it was a sample size thing at all. It's a tough matchup for even the best PGs in the league. Lowry isn't doing much better and he has a much better team around him. It's not evidence he's not good. If we played any other Eastern team outside of maybe Toronto, Russell would've been his normal self.


How is my speculation not possible? Was it not possible for Carmelo, Iverson, Marbury, and plenty of other talented players to be out of the league so quickly? Until Russell learns how to play off the ball my statement definitely in the realm of possibility. Even if he is not as selfish in comparison to the players i mentioned above. He can still be categorize along with those players because he is not talented enough to live and die by him like the way the Rockets play James Harden.

Even if we play Toronto they would just put Lowry on Harris to chase him around and put a bigger player like Danny Green or Kawhi on Russell to shut him down. That's really not fixing the issue.


Carmelo Anthony spent 15 seasons in the NBA and was a multiple time all star, 6 time all NBA, a top 20 all time NBA scorer and an Olympic gold medalist. He is going to be a hall of famer. If D'Angelo Russell can pull anything CLOSE to that off and a bulk of that time of it is spent as apart of our team that is a MASSIVE success for both parties involved. Are you kidding me my dude?

Allen Iverson spent 14 seasons in the NBA, 11 time all star, top 25 in scoring all time, all nba, 1st ballot HoF. etc etc etc.

If you're telling me D'Angelo Russell is on a career path like those dudes, and will be "out of the league quickly" by the time he's in his mid 30s, SIGN ME UP RIGHT NOW. :lol: :lol: :lol: !!!
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1572 » by MrDollarBills » Thu May 2, 2019 8:48 am

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:...Simple adjustment to me really. Of course, Russell has to work on getting stronger and better. I could care less about his speed. Him being able to finish through contact or drawing fouls at the rim has to be a next step for him. No more short arming layups.

I'd commented a couple months ago on that, but don't recall anyone responding. Lemme try again:

It seems like from the games I watched, Russell started the season as the finesse-type player we were already familiar with, and maybe around the midway point it became noticeable that he wasn't flinching away from contact quite so much, and was starting to consistently make the classic NBA foul-drawing moves & gestures. Over the course of the season I believe he averaged one more FT/game than he started with, on pretty much the same mpg. (but probably more USG, but still)

Point is-- he's not there yet, but he does seem headed in the right direction. It looks like DLo started laying down a muscle-memory foundation that he can continue to improve on, particularly with added strength.

But just in general, this young guy seems to have a superb attitude-- humble, but hungry. Wide-eyed, but motivated to do all the right things to improve. A lot like LeVert, I think. (and needles to say, the opposite of a Carmelo) That's similar to others on the team, of course, but Russell is in more of a formative phase right now. Side note-- DWid is an interesting contrast, in that he seems more like the typical NBA badass who insists on doing things his way. At least, by Nets standards.

Just some Earthly observations. :P


Russell is also very coachable, which is huge and could be the difference him being a fringe all star to becoming a permanent one.

Also, he needs to keep utilizing that headfake of his and learn to draw contact. As we sit here watch Butler, Harden etc draw fouls off of crap like that D'Angelo needs to start learning how to work the refs too.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1573 » by SpeedyG » Thu May 2, 2019 10:15 am

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:...Simple adjustment to me really. Of course, Russell has to work on getting stronger and better. I could care less about his speed. Him being able to finish through contact or drawing fouls at the rim has to be a next step for him. No more short arming layups.

I'd commented a couple months ago on that, but don't recall anyone responding. Lemme try again:

It seems like from the games I watched, Russell started the season as the finesse-type player we were already familiar with, and maybe around the midway point it became noticeable that he wasn't flinching away from contact quite so much, and was starting to consistently make the classic NBA foul-drawing moves & gestures. Over the course of the season I believe he averaged one more FT/game than he started with, on pretty much the same mpg. (but probably more USG, but still)

Point is-- he's not there yet, but he does seem headed in the right direction. It looks like DLo started laying down a muscle-memory foundation that he can continue to improve on, particularly with added strength.

But just in general, this young guy seems to have a superb attitude-- humble, but hungry. Wide-eyed, but motivated to do all the right things to improve. A lot like LeVert, I think. (and needles to say, the opposite of a Carmelo) That's similar to others on the team, of course, but Russell is in more of a formative phase right now. Side note-- DWid is an interesting contrast, in that he seems more like the typical NBA badass who insists on doing things his way. At least, by Nets standards.

Just some Earthly observations. :P
It was me. I think Russell got better at getting to the line, but I'm hesitant to look at raw numbers because his usage also went up and up as the season went (especially after Spencer got hurt and Caris was still finding his form).

But there was a noticeable uptick in at least his attempts, yes.

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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1574 » by SpeedyG » Thu May 2, 2019 10:21 am

I think the problem we have is that Russell and Spencer doesn't move when they are playing off-ball. They are mostly spot up guys when the ball isn't in their hands, which stagnate our offense.

Caris is better off-ball cutter than either Russell or Spencer, but he's not as good a shooter. If he develops his shooting to level we saw in playoffs (even lower, since I think he shot over 40% in the small sample size... not happening over 80 games) , it makes it a better fit.

Nevertheless, all three of these guys need to learn how to play without the ball on offense. It's how Kenny always envisioned his 2-guard offense anyway

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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1575 » by MGrand15 » Thu May 2, 2019 1:49 pm

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:...Simple adjustment to me really. Of course, Russell has to work on getting stronger and better. I could care less about his speed. Him being able to finish through contact or drawing fouls at the rim has to be a next step for him. No more short arming layups.

I'd commented a couple months ago on that, but don't recall anyone responding. Lemme try again:

It seems like from the games I watched, Russell started the season as the finesse-type player we were already familiar with, and maybe around the midway point it became noticeable that he wasn't flinching away from contact quite so much, and was starting to consistently make the classic NBA foul-drawing moves & gestures. Over the course of the season I believe he averaged one more FT/game than he started with, on pretty much the same mpg. (but probably more USG, but still)

Point is-- he's not there yet, but he does seem headed in the right direction. It looks like DLo started laying down a muscle-memory foundation that he can continue to improve on, particularly with added strength.

But just in general, this young guy seems to have a superb attitude-- humble, but hungry. Wide-eyed, but motivated to do all the right things to improve. A lot like LeVert, I think. (and needles to say, the opposite of a Carmelo) That's similar to others on the team, of course, but Russell is in more of a formative phase right now. Side note-- DWid is an interesting contrast, in that he seems more like the typical NBA badass who insists on doing things his way. At least, by Nets standards.

Just some Earthly observations. :P


Dinwiddie the typical NBA badass :lol:

Completely agree with your last paragraph. It's easy to bet on Russell because of his attitude. He had a great off-season. Followed it up by responding really well when he was being benched in the 4th quarter. Never turned sour when the national media started claiming LeVert was our best player. Turned into one of the ring leaders on our bench cheering and supporting the team. Always says the right things to media.

He takes a lot of shots but I just don't get the sense that he's a selfish me-first type player. He's a young player trying to find the balance between scoring, running the offense, playmaking, etc.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1576 » by MrDollarBills » Thu May 2, 2019 2:55 pm

I think Russell takes a lot of shots out of necessity and not because he's trying to go out for self. The team needs him to score. Now hopefully next season he won't have to do that.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1577 » by KobeBryant24 » Thu May 2, 2019 8:14 pm

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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1578 » by Rich Rane » Thu May 2, 2019 8:30 pm

KobeBryant24 wrote:Weed in my veins


Which I guess is still better than alleged rapist.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1579 » by KobeBryant24 » Thu May 2, 2019 8:45 pm

Rich Rane wrote:
KobeBryant24 wrote:Weed in my veins


Which I guess is still better than alleged rapist.


:lol: boii you know white girl wanted that D
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#1580 » by MrDollarBills » Fri May 3, 2019 4:15 am

KobeBryant24 wrote:
Rich Rane wrote:
KobeBryant24 wrote:Weed in my veins


Which I guess is still better than alleged rapist.


:lol: boii you know white girl wanted that D


get your rape apologist ass off of this board.
"Mother____er, get me two fingers of Southern Comfort"

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