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The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II

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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#21 » by Prokorov » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:09 pm

MGrand15 wrote:The Gerald Wallace trade isn't any better because Billy King was on the record saying he would've taken Thomas Robinson over Dame Lillard. Their fates are tied together.

Doesn't make it a bad trade but it's definitely part of the evaluation process.


apples and oranges.... with a top 6 lottery pick, you typically get top end talent. at pick #27, you typically are lucky to get a guy who sticks on your roster.

the fact that king would have screwed up the pick in a loaded draft even if he kept it just highlights how incompetent he was.

not to mention, if we didnt trade for wallace, we could have tanked for davis earlier (with 1 more loss we would have got davis instead of NO).

not to mention, if we kept the pick we could have traded for harden.

that trade was the worst in franchise history. worse then even the boston trade
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#22 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:55 pm

MGrand15 wrote:The Gerald Wallace trade isn't any better because Billy King was on the record saying he would've taken Thomas Robinson over Dame Lillard. Their fates are tied together.

Doesn't make it a bad trade but it's definitely part of the evaluation process.


I'm not sure how it is apart of the evaluation process when Kuzma was never, ever going to be a Net regardless of the trade.

Also, comparing trading the 6th pick in the draft to trading the 27th pick is a real stretch. if the Lakers wanted us to pick Ivan Rabb instead of Kuzma no one would be even using him in an attempt to slight the trade. It's pure dishonesty and not really a credible way of evaluating the deal knowing the fact that Kuzma was not going to be selected.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#23 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:57 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:The Gerald Wallace trade isn't any better because Billy King was on the record saying he would've taken Thomas Robinson over Dame Lillard. Their fates are tied together.

Doesn't make it a bad trade but it's definitely part of the evaluation process.


apples and oranges.... with a top 6 lottery pick, you typically get top end talent. at pick #27, you typically are lucky to get a guy who sticks on your roster.

the fact that king would have screwed up the pick in a loaded draft even if he kept it just highlights how incompetent he was.

not to mention, if we didnt trade for wallace, we could have tanked for davis earlier (with 1 more loss we would have got davis instead of NO).

not to mention, if we kept the pick we could have traded for harden.

that trade was the worst in franchise history. worse then even the boston trade


yeah. I don't know how anyone can compare what Billy King did to the Russell trade.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#24 » by MGrand15 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:18 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:The Gerald Wallace trade isn't any better because Billy King was on the record saying he would've taken Thomas Robinson over Dame Lillard. Their fates are tied together.

Doesn't make it a bad trade but it's definitely part of the evaluation process.


I'm not sure how it is apart of the evaluation process when Kuzma was never, ever going to be a Net regardless of the trade.

Also, comparing trading the 6th pick in the draft to trading the 27th pick is a real stretch. if the Lakers wanted us to pick Ivan Rabb instead of Kuzma no one would be even using him in an attempt to slight the trade. It's pure dishonesty and not really a credible way of evaluating the deal knowing the fact that Kuzma was not going to be selected.


Literally every player for draft pick trade is evaluated this way. Thats the risk you take when you trade a pick. You don't think Washington's soul burns every time they see how well Jarrett Allen is playing? A pick they gave up for half a season of Bogdanovic and to get rid of some dead weight.

I'm not saying it makes it a bad trade but Kuzma isn't irrelevant. That's just wild.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#25 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:48 am

MGrand15 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:The Gerald Wallace trade isn't any better because Billy King was on the record saying he would've taken Thomas Robinson over Dame Lillard. Their fates are tied together.

Doesn't make it a bad trade but it's definitely part of the evaluation process.


I'm not sure how it is apart of the evaluation process when Kuzma was never, ever going to be a Net regardless of the trade.

Also, comparing trading the 6th pick in the draft to trading the 27th pick is a real stretch. if the Lakers wanted us to pick Ivan Rabb instead of Kuzma no one would be even using him in an attempt to slight the trade. It's pure dishonesty and not really a credible way of evaluating the deal knowing the fact that Kuzma was not going to be selected.


Literally every player for draft pick trade is evaluated this way. Thats the risk you take when you trade a pick. You don't think Washington's soul burns every time they see how well Jarrett Allen is playing? A pick they gave up for half a season of Bogdanovic and to get rid of some dead weight.

I'm not saying it makes it a bad trade but Kuzma isn't irrelevant. That's just wild.


Kuzma is irrelevant because he wasn't even on the Nets draft board. How can you evaluate a trade based off of a scenario that isn't even remotely based in reality?

The trade's evaluation comes from the improvement or lack of improvement of D'Angelo Russell. Nothing else really matters. Kyle Kuzma turning out to be a sleeper pick doesn't mean anything since he never was going to be a Net. If the Lakers asked us to draft another player that wasn't making any noise, no one would be using said player to evaluate trading for D'Angelo Russell.

re: Washington, I doubt it, because they might not have even had Allen on their board.

Sean Marks isn't losing a lick of sleep over this because he knows he wasn't going to take Kuzma. The hand wringing over this is basically crying over spilled milk.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#26 » by Prokorov » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:10 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
I'm not sure how it is apart of the evaluation process when Kuzma was never, ever going to be a Net regardless of the trade.

Also, comparing trading the 6th pick in the draft to trading the 27th pick is a real stretch. if the Lakers wanted us to pick Ivan Rabb instead of Kuzma no one would be even using him in an attempt to slight the trade. It's pure dishonesty and not really a credible way of evaluating the deal knowing the fact that Kuzma was not going to be selected.


Literally every player for draft pick trade is evaluated this way. Thats the risk you take when you trade a pick. You don't think Washington's soul burns every time they see how well Jarrett Allen is playing? A pick they gave up for half a season of Bogdanovic and to get rid of some dead weight.

I'm not saying it makes it a bad trade but Kuzma isn't irrelevant. That's just wild.


Kuzma is irrelevant because he wasn't even on the Nets draft board. How can you evaluate a trade based off of a scenario that isn't even remotely based in reality?

The trade's evaluation comes from the improvement or lack of improvement of D'Angelo Russell. Nothing else really matters. Kyle Kuzma turning out to be a sleeper pick doesn't mean anything since he never was going to be a Net. If the Lakers asked us to draft another player that wasn't making any noise, no one would be using said player to evaluate trading for D'Angelo Russell.

re: Washington, I doubt it, because they might not have even had Allen on their board.

Sean Marks isn't losing a lick of sleep over this because he knows he wasn't going to take Kuzma. The hand wringing over this is basically crying over spilled milk.


Yeah... if we dont make this trade Kuzma is still a laker as we would have taken Rabb at 27 and they would have taken Kuzma at 28.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#27 » by moonpie » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:07 pm

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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#28 » by IceManBK1 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:21 am

moonpie wrote:
Read on Twitter


I think it's the coach's fault sometimes for his lack of consistency. I mean, the guy makes mistakes, you bench him. When the guy is on fire, you bench him. whether the team is getting blown out and blowing out another team, you bench him. The coach needs to let him play through his mistakes sometimes; and let him pad some stats even during a blowout in either direction. Other teams still play their starters in blowouts. That's how some supposedly stars collect their stats. Plus Dlo's and touches and mins are inconsistent too. And he came off the bench for like 15 games playing limited mins and getting limited touches.


But yea, Dlo does need to improve in other areas. Like just man up and beat your man off the dribble sometimes w/o a pick and roll from a teammate; get better at attacking the rim. Stop shooting so many 3s when your long range is not connecting. Improve his defense; esp chasing his man after getting picked off. Improve your speed and athleticism. Always have an aggressive mentality. Take better care of the basketball.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#29 » by bws94 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:35 am

Well, let's keep DMC then. Because DLo will have his ups and downs. So, good to see someone like DMC giving him a push when needed, some reassurance when needed.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#31 » by kamaze » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:11 am

IceManBK1 wrote:
moonpie wrote:
Read on Twitter


I think it's the coach's fault sometimes for his lack of consistency. I mean, the guy makes mistakes, you bench him. When the guy is on fire, you bench him. whether the team is getting blown out and blowing out another team, you bench him. The coach needs to let him play through his mistakes sometimes; and let him pad some stats even during a blowout in either direction. Other teams still play their starters in blowouts. That's how some supposedly stars collect their stats. Plus Dlo's and touches and mins are inconsistent too. And he came off the bench for like 15 games playing limited mins and getting limited touches.


But yea, Dlo does need to improve in other areas. Like just man up and beat your man off the dribble sometimes w/o a pick and roll from a teammate; get better at attacking the rim. Stop shooting so many 3s when your long range is not connecting. Improve his defense; esp chasing his man after getting picked off. Improve your speed and athleticism. Always have an aggressive mentality. Take better care of the basketball.


Before the season, Carroll was asked which of the young players impressed him the most. Without hesitation, he said Caris LeVert because of his work ethic. The Nets want Carroll to guide D’Angelo Russell and be that voice in his head.

Carroll wants Russell to show him what LeVert showed him last summer.


Kenny A. has done a good job building up Rhondae, Caris, Joe Harris, Allen Crabbe, Quincy Acy, Jarret Allenn etc. DLO has improved under him as well but:

He just has to come in this summer and buy in, hit the weights, do what the performance team tells him to do, live in this gym like Caris did last year.”


From a teammate this is what's holding him back, not the coaches it's his attitude.

DeMarre wants to take D’Angelo Russell under his wing this summer we'll see if he changes.

https://www.netsdaily.com/2018/4/12/17231396/demarre-carroll-wants-to-take-dangelo-russell-under-his-wing-this-summer
Who's going to sacrifice for their teammates here? Defense? Unselfishness?
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#32 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:36 am

It's very simple. If he wants to succeed and get paid, he will lock in and listen.

I see no indication that he won't. It's time to be humble and work.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#33 » by Roy Tarpley » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:34 pm

I don't know enough about training to make any prescriptions but I'd really like to see Dlo improve his strength (core and legs) and get his efficiency percentages up.

His 3pt% his first two years was already 35%, that's a great foundation, so he should be able to get it to 37%, that's all he needs. Likewise, any good NBA guard needs to shoot 80+% on FTs.

If he can get to 44/37/80 (not asking too much when guys like McConnell, Collison, Teague can hit these levels), I will be the first person to jump on the bandwagon.

If he stays at 41/33/75 next season, which will be his 4th season, I don't even know if the Nets should keep him at a mid-level salary.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#34 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:24 pm

So in a lot of threads I keep reading how D'Angelo is the Nets most talented player, has the most potential, has near franchise level potential, has the most skills, can leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc.

And I have to ask... after 3 seasons in this league of nearly the exact same stuff, why is that perception accurate?

I still feel the need to start with the disclaimers of, I get why the trade was done, I would do it again myself and I do not flatout dislike D-Lo... but I just don't see it. LeVert, Allen and RHJ have massively more potential in my eyes, 2 of the 3 are just as if not more talented, pretty much no one on this roster has true near franchise level potential and only 2 of these guys can leap medium buildings off one foot or a jump stop.


I really want him to turn the corner, I really want to like him as a player, but I really need someone to convince me here. I even see the flashes of fantastic passes and court vision, the times his shot is falling where you say if he even became a consistent 38 from 3 and 44 from the field he'd light it up and he has the ball on a string. But his burst and first step are meh as hell, he's not even excessively quick in the open court, his bbiq overall is low, his decision making poor, his foot speed and defense is abysmal, his attitude is all **** up and real $hitty and he can barely dunk.

Someone make me see the light.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#35 » by Prokorov » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:25 pm

Roy Tarpley wrote:I don't know enough about training to make any prescriptions but I'd really like to see Dlo improve his strength (core and legs) and get his efficiency percentages up.

His 3pt% his first two years was already 35%, that's a great foundation, so he should be able to get it to 37%, that's all he needs. Likewise, any good NBA guard needs to shoot 80+% on FTs.

If he can get to 44/37/80 (not asking too much when guys like McConnell, Collison, Teague can hit these levels), I will be the first person to jump on the bandwagon.

If he stays at 41/33/75 next season, which will be his 4th season, I don't even know if the Nets should keep him at a mid-level salary.


its ALOT easier to shoot those percentages on low volume.

DLO takes twice as many threes as teague and 6 times as may threes as mcconnell. he also does so as the main option/source of offense, more volume off the dribble, with more focus on him.

it actually IS alot to ask someone to approach 45/38/80 when shooting so many threes.

look at crabbe, he shot it will from three and didnt hit those marks
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#36 » by Prokorov » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:31 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:So in a lot of threads I keep reading how D'Angelo is the Nets most talented player, has the most potential, has near franchise level potential, has the most skills, can leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc.

And I have to ask... after 3 seasons in this league of nearly the exact same stuff, why is that perception accurate?


a few reasons

1) we dont have alot of young guys with huge ceilings. especially on offense. RHJ and Allen are 2 and 3 for potential/ceiling and alot of that is tied to defensive ability

2) he has done the same for 3 seasons, but that level he has repeated is quite good for an 18,19,20 year old. after 3 years he is still younger then everyone on our team but allen.

I still feel the need to start with the disclaimers of, I get why the trade was done, I would do it again myself and I do not flatout dislike D-Lo... but I just don't see it. LeVert, Allen and RHJ have massively more potential in my eyes, 2 of the 3 are just as if not more talented, pretty much no one on this roster has true near franchise level potential and only 2 of these guys can leap medium buildings off one foot or a jump stop.


you can make an argument RHJ or allen have more potential but even if you are "massively more potential" is a pretty big overstatement. if they have higher potential its marginal. Levert certainly doesnt have more potential. he is probably closer to his final finished product then Dlo. Levert is pretty good at everything but good at little to nothing, doesnt play above the rim, is fast but not quick, can get to the lane but not consistently. is average or below defensively. he is like your ideal career 6th man. the kind of guy who maybe has 1 monster year off the bench and sneaks into the last spot to become a career 1 time all-star.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#37 » by Roy Tarpley » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:37 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Roy Tarpley wrote:I don't know enough about training to make any prescriptions but I'd really like to see Dlo improve his strength (core and legs) and get his efficiency percentages up.

His 3pt% his first two years was already 35%, that's a great foundation, so he should be able to get it to 37%, that's all he needs. Likewise, any good NBA guard needs to shoot 80+% on FTs.

If he can get to 44/37/80 (not asking too much when guys like McConnell, Collison, Teague can hit these levels), I will be the first person to jump on the bandwagon.

If he stays at 41/33/75 next season, which will be his 4th season, I don't even know if the Nets should keep him at a mid-level salary.


its ALOT easier to shoot those percentages on low volume.

DLO takes twice as many threes as teague and 6 times as may threes as mcconnell. he also does so as the main option/source of offense, more volume off the dribble, with more focus on him.

it actually IS alot to ask someone to approach 45/38/80 when shooting so many threes.

look at crabbe, he shot it will from three and didnt hit those marks


You're changing the goalposts a bit, I said 44/37/80, not 45/38/80.

There's many guys who can shoot 44/37/80 on high volume threes. To name a few.

Bojan Bogdanovic
Reggie Bullock
Joe Ingles
Anthony Tolliver
Jayson Tatum
Joe Harris
Tobias Harris
Joe Harris

These guys aren't world beaters. If Dlo wants to be a franchise player, he needs to get to a solid level of efficiency. No one is asking for Steph Curry 50/42/92 levels.

If he can't hit those percentages, the other option is to be in the Westbrook or Wall mold, and excel in other areas like defense or rebounds or assists or steals.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#38 » by MGrand15 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:44 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:So in a lot of threads I keep reading how D'Angelo is the Nets most talented player, has the most potential, has near franchise level potential, has the most skills, can leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc.

And I have to ask... after 3 seasons in this league of nearly the exact same stuff, why is that perception accurate?

I still feel the need to start with the disclaimers of, I get why the trade was done, I would do it again myself and I do not flatout dislike D-Lo... but I just don't see it. LeVert, Allen and RHJ have massively more potential in my eyes, 2 of the 3 are just as if not more talented, pretty much no one on this roster has true near franchise level potential and only 2 of these guys can leap medium buildings off one foot or a jump stop.


I really want him to turn the corner, I really want to like him as a player, but I really need someone to convince me here. I even see the flashes of fantastic passes and court vision, the times his shot is falling where you say if he even became a consistent 38 from 3 and 44 from the field he'd light it up and he has the ball on a string. But his burst and first step are meh as hell, he's not even excessively quick in the open court, his bbiq overall is low, his decision making poor, his foot speed and defense is abysmal, his attitude is all **** up and real $hitty and he can barely dunk.

Someone make me see the light.


I wouldn't go as far as you're going but I mostly agree.

His potential coming into the draft came from: great size for a PG, elite ball handling, elite shooting (off the dribble especially) and elite vision.

His size at PG helps but with questions about whether hes better on or off the ball, it becomes less of a strength. His shooting has been average at best, very inconsistent. His ball handling is nice but won't really be effective until his shooting scares the defense. His vision is as good as advertised but it's nullified by his poor decision making.

All of this skill stuff is crucial since he's been a BAD athlete this year. Slow, not explosive, not strong.

I guess people still see the potential because he has the draft pedigree and he plays with that alpha dog, #1 option swagger. I do think there's something to that. But as the sample size of games increases, it's hard for me to look at him with a STAR ceiling.

I don't think he separated himself from LeVert or Dinwiddie this year but I could see if someone is wowed by his shot creator potential, his vision, and his shooting touch.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#39 » by SpeedyG » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:46 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:So in a lot of threads I keep reading how D'Angelo is the Nets most talented player, has the most potential, has near franchise level potential, has the most skills, can leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc.

And I have to ask... after 3 seasons in this league of nearly the exact same stuff, why is that perception accurate?

I still feel the need to start with the disclaimers of, I get why the trade was done, I would do it again myself and I do not flatout dislike D-Lo... but I just don't see it. LeVert, Allen and RHJ have massively more potential in my eyes, 2 of the 3 are just as if not more talented, pretty much no one on this roster has true near franchise level potential and only 2 of these guys can leap medium buildings off one foot or a jump stop.


I really want him to turn the corner, I really want to like him as a player, but I really need someone to convince me here. I even see the flashes of fantastic passes and court vision, the times his shot is falling where you say if he even became a consistent 38 from 3 and 44 from the field he'd light it up and he has the ball on a string. But his burst and first step are meh as hell, he's not even excessively quick in the open court, his bbiq overall is low, his decision making poor, his foot speed and defense is abysmal, his attitude is all **** up and real $hitty and he can barely dunk.

Someone make me see the light.


As someone who has rated Russell with the highest potential in our team, its for one simple-reason....the NBA is all about scoring. How good you are as a scorer is ultimately what caps your ability in the NBA. And from that perspective, there's no one from our team who can put up points in as many ways as Russell can....granted he doesn't do it consistently or efficiently, but that's what dictates his "potential". He's not the quickest, his decision making can be questionable and risky far too often, but his trigger is so quick that he can pretty much get his shot off against anyone. That last statement is pretty much the definition of a superstar...the ability to get your shot against their best defender, whenever you want. Again, consistency is an issue, but you see it there.

I mentioned it when we acquired him, but you take away a bit of the explosiveness of Deron (before he got fat)...and you have a game that isn't far too dissimilar from Russell's...and Deron in his peak was a top 1-2 PG in the game.

I had JA 4th at the beginning of the season, mainly because I didn't see a guy with an offense. But he's shown improved footwork, soft touch, extended range, pretty decent hands as the year went on. Doubt he'll ever be a guy you build your offense around or ask him to create for others, but when you add that offense from the 5 spot along with his already effective help side shot blocking, there's potential there for a pretty legit top 10 center in the game (if not higher).

Caris and Rondae...I feel flip-flopping myself sometimes. I think both exceeded expectations heading into the year. I didn't think Rondae would ever develop a mid-range, much less the confidence to take and make turnaround jumpers (contested one at that). But his form from downtown still is far from textbook, so I'm not sure he'll make a full-time switch to SF, which makes him a very effective 4 for our team...except against the 5-6 teams that goes big against us and then we get pummeled on the glass (not always just his fault, but that's for another conversation).

Caris on the other hand, really emerged as an attack dog both offensively and defensively. Even had a few games where he took over some games offensively (heck, even defensively). But he still looks like, at best a good #2 if not a really great #3.

So there you have it, the NBA is all about points. And from the ability to handle the ball, release, creativity and actually hitting them some (when he gets hot especially), that combination makes me put Russell's potential higher than the other three.

That doesn't mean he'll reach it. I think Caris is probably closest to hitting his potential, and IMO, RHJ has already exceeded his initial potential cap. I think you can squeeze a bit more out of his game, but I don't think you can squeeze much more out of it.
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Re: The Official D'Angelo Russell Thread II 

Post#40 » by kamaze » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:54 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:So in a lot of threads I keep reading how D'Angelo is the Nets most talented player, has the most potential, has near franchise level potential, has the most skills, can leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc.

And I have to ask... after 3 seasons in this league of nearly the exact same stuff, why is that perception accurate?

I still feel the need to start with the disclaimers of, I get why the trade was done, I would do it again myself and I do not flatout dislike D-Lo... but I just don't see it. LeVert, Allen and RHJ have massively more potential in my eyes, 2 of the 3 are just as if not more talented, pretty much no one on this roster has true near franchise level potential and only 2 of these guys can leap medium buildings off one foot or a jump stop.


I really want him to turn the corner, I really want to like him as a player, but I really need someone to convince me here. I even see the flashes of fantastic passes and court vision, the times his shot is falling where you say if he even became a consistent 38 from 3 and 44 from the field he'd light it up and he has the ball on a string. But his burst and first step are meh as hell, he's not even excessively quick in the open court, his bbiq overall is low, his decision making poor, his foot speed and defense is abysmal, his attitude is all **** up and real $hitty and he can barely dunk.

Someone make me see the light.


Tell em why you mad :lol I feel the same way but only he can show me otherwise. This was his third year in the league he's not a rookie no more excuses.

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Who's going to sacrifice for their teammates here? Defense? Unselfishness?

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