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Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD)

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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2141 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jun 9, 2019 11:41 pm

MGrand15 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:I can't wait for free agency to begin so that these NBA 2K trades can stop being posted on here.


Yeah seriously. I much prefer talking about the team we actually have versus hypothetical teams. There's so much craziness going around.

People wanting to dump 80% of the team. With the possibility of Russell being straight up renounced after the awesome year he's had and the bond he's built with the team / fanbase - I just want this speculation to be over.


I really, really hate this part about the whole thing. Russell really doesn't deserve this.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2142 » by Netaman » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:37 am

Prokorov wrote:
Netaman wrote:
LeBron, Curry, Harden, Durant, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Embiid, Westbrook, George, Jokic, Lillard, Green, Klay, Davis, Paul, Aldridge.


I mean, that's still 12 no brainers and he said it was off the top of his head. I'd probably add Gobert + KAT.

Irving is a very good player but he's also clearly not on in the general top tier of the 5-7 players who have the ability to be the best player on a championship team, 3 of whom happen to be currently available and we're linked to.

Maybe he's the key piece to make 1 of those other pieces happen, but if we are talking ideal offseason, I'm adding 1 of those 3 to the group of guards we already have + then trying to further add to the front court with the remaining cap room. Guess we will find out soon enough.


I eliminated the ones that were no questions asked no argument better then kyrie. the rest you need to go deeper. but i say Kyrie is better then davis, george, jokic and embiid also

KAT?

LOL!


Is this a serious post? You wouldn't take KAT over Irving? The guy has played 82 games 3/4 years in the NBA (77 this past year) and his career 22/12 average includes shooting .392% from 3 (higher than Irving's career avg) from the C position. And Jokic? And PG? On durability alone those guys are no-brainers over Kyrie.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2143 » by Prokorov » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:16 am

Netaman wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Netaman wrote:
I mean, that's still 12 no brainers and he said it was off the top of his head. I'd probably add Gobert + KAT.

Irving is a very good player but he's also clearly not on in the general top tier of the 5-7 players who have the ability to be the best player on a championship team, 3 of whom happen to be currently available and we're linked to.

Maybe he's the key piece to make 1 of those other pieces happen, but if we are talking ideal offseason, I'm adding 1 of those 3 to the group of guards we already have + then trying to further add to the front court with the remaining cap room. Guess we will find out soon enough.


I eliminated the ones that were no questions asked no argument better then kyrie. the rest you need to go deeper. but i say Kyrie is better then davis, george, jokic and embiid also

KAT?

LOL!


Is this a serious post? You wouldn't take KAT over Irving? The guy has played 82 games 3/4 years in the NBA (77 this past year) and his career 22/12 average includes shooting .392% from 3 (higher than Irving's career avg) from the C position. And Jokic? And PG? On durability alone those guys are no-brainers over Kyrie.



KAT is an empty stats player who gets his at everyone elses expense, plays 0 defense, and has a terrible work ethic, Kyrie is roughly infinity plus 1 times better
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2144 » by Papi_swav » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:20 am

Prokorov wrote:
Netaman wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
I eliminated the ones that were no questions asked no argument better then kyrie. the rest you need to go deeper. but i say Kyrie is better then davis, george, jokic and embiid also

KAT?

LOL!


Is this a serious post? You wouldn't take KAT over Irving? The guy has played 82 games 3/4 years in the NBA (77 this past year) and his career 22/12 average includes shooting .392% from 3 (higher than Irving's career avg) from the C position. And Jokic? And PG? On durability alone those guys are no-brainers over Kyrie.



KAT is an empty stats player who gets his at everyone elses expense, plays 0 defense, and has a terrible work ethic, Kyrie is roughly infinity plus 1 times better

I agree on KAT Williams. Everybody is praising him but I always felt he's an empty stats player. He definitely can't lead a team like Jokic/AD/Embiid can. Doesn't play close enough level of defense those other guys play.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2145 » by Netaman » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:27 pm

Prokorov wrote:
KAT is an empty stats player who gets his at everyone elses expense, plays 0 defense, and has a terrible work ethic, Kyrie is roughly infinity plus 1 times better


What exactly has Kyrie done to prove he's not an empty stats player himself? There are only about 10 guys in the NBA who have proven they impact the game way beyond their stats. Those guys are in the MVP convo year after year and carried teams to the playoffs or taken their teams to a new level not previously attained. I'm not saying Kyrie can't do that, just that he hasn't. And that he's also routinely missed games - twice requiring knee surgeries that forced him to miss the postseason in last 5 years.

The question isn't whether he's got great ability or worth a max - he's a bonafide all star and he is worth a max. It's about where he ranks among the subset of max players who aren't in that top tier. That second tier is full of stat stuffers but with rare abilities that in the right team environment can be championship caliber. They are projections on the hope that they will take that step up to the elite tier in the right situation the way Harden and the Greek freak did.

If this offseason was just add kyrie or don't add him, I'd imagine everyone would be thrilled to add him because he'd instantly be the best player on the team. But it's not. The question this offseason is similarly how to rank him in relation to the other max options available, as well as how much more value he'll produce over the next several years compared to DLo. I'm less bullish on him than you are. I see some shades of both Marbury + DWill.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2146 » by Prokorov » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:16 pm

Netaman wrote:What exactly has Kyrie done to prove he's not an empty stats player himself?


1) won a title as a top 2 player on his team, hitting the biggest shot of the series, beating a 73-win team
2) Lead a team to 55+ wins as its best player, and a top 2 seed in the conference

KAT has done neither. or come even close.

The question isn't whether he's got great ability or worth a max - he's a bonafide all star and he is worth a max. It's about where he ranks among the subset of max players who aren't in that top tier. That second tier is full of stat stuffers but with rare abilities that in the right team environment can be championship caliber. They are projections on the hope that they will take that step up to the elite tier in the right situation the way Harden and the Greek freak did.


he is a top 12 player. period. some years he has been top 8.
If this offseason was just add kyrie or don't add him, I'd imagine everyone would be thrilled to add him because he'd instantly be the best player on the team. But it's not. The question this offseason is similarly how to rank him in relation to the other max options available, as well as how much more value he'll produce over the next several years compared to DLo. I'm less bullish on him than you are. I see some shades of both Marbury + DWill.


Kyrie is clearly behind durant and kawhi. but thats the only 2 FA's he is behind. if you factor age then no one below him is even close. he is signifcantly better then Russell, who i love and want to stay.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2147 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:08 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Netaman wrote:What exactly has Kyrie done to prove he's not an empty stats player himself?


1) won a title as a top 2 player on his team, hitting the biggest shot of the series, beating a 73-win team
2) Lead a team to 55+ wins as its best player, and a top 2 seed in the conference

KAT has done neither. or come even close.

The question isn't whether he's got great ability or worth a max - he's a bonafide all star and he is worth a max. It's about where he ranks among the subset of max players who aren't in that top tier. That second tier is full of stat stuffers but with rare abilities that in the right team environment can be championship caliber. They are projections on the hope that they will take that step up to the elite tier in the right situation the way Harden and the Greek freak did.


he is a top 12 player. period. some years he has been top 8.
If this offseason was just add kyrie or don't add him, I'd imagine everyone would be thrilled to add him because he'd instantly be the best player on the team. But it's not. The question this offseason is similarly how to rank him in relation to the other max options available, as well as how much more value he'll produce over the next several years compared to DLo. I'm less bullish on him than you are. I see some shades of both Marbury + DWill.


Kyrie is clearly behind durant and kawhi. but thats the only 2 FA's he is behind. if you factor age then no one below him is even close. he is signifcantly better then Russell, who i love and want to stay.

Yeah I struggle to name more than 10 players better than him. There are another 3 or 4 who have a completely legitimate argument because they're basically his equal, but 10 or 11 better than him is about right.

LeBron
Kawhi
Durant
Curry
Harden
Giannis
Embiid
AD
PG

All definitely better.

Jokic is probably better.

Lillard, Westbrook and Jimmy Butler all have legit arguments for sure.

But after that you drop an entire tier. He is clearly in the above grouping.
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