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Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD)

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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2121 » by vincecarter4pres » Sun Jun 9, 2019 2:42 am

IceManBK1 wrote:This would be a very good non Max FA team.
Dlo/George Hill
Harris/Levert
Prince/Kurucs
Randle/Brandon Clarke(trade DW to move up)
Vucevic/Allen

Would be very balanced team IMO. We got offense and defense. You can mix and match the starters and bench really well. I have Allen as backup center cuz Vucevic is better overall. Say what you want about his defense. I don't trust Allen being the paint patroller neither. We have better wings to prevent guard penetration. So our bigs can focus on guarding their own man and not get into foul trouble trying to guard the smalls.

Gross. If they miss on all the big time guys they better at least walk with Tobias Harris and a great trade.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2122 » by IceManBK1 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 2:52 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:This would be a very good non Max FA team.
Dlo/George Hill
Harris/Levert
Prince/Kurucs
Randle/Brandon Clarke(trade DW to move up)
Vucevic/Allen

Would be very balanced team IMO. We got offense and defense. You can mix and match the starters and bench really well. I have Allen as backup center cuz Vucevic is better overall. Say what you want about his defense. I don't trust Allen being the paint patroller neither. We have better wings to prevent guard penetration. So our bigs can focus on guarding their own man and not get into foul trouble trying to guard the smalls.

Gross. If they miss on all the big time guys they better at least walk with Tobias Harris and a great trade.


Wouldn't mind maxing Tobias Harris and Dlo. Then trade Allen+DW(can flip him for a high teen pick) for Clint Capela. that's your great trade lol.
Dlo
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Prince
T Harris
Capela
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2123 » by Prokorov » Sun Jun 9, 2019 3:23 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:This would be a very good non Max FA team.
Dlo/George Hill
Harris/Levert
Prince/Kurucs
Randle/Brandon Clarke(trade DW to move up)
Vucevic/Allen

Would be very balanced team IMO. We got offense and defense. You can mix and match the starters and bench really well. I have Allen as backup center cuz Vucevic is better overall. Say what you want about his defense. I don't trust Allen being the paint patroller neither. We have better wings to prevent guard penetration. So our bigs can focus on guarding their own man and not get into foul trouble trying to guard the smalls.

Gross. If they miss on all the big time guys they better at least walk with Tobias Harris and a great trade.


yeah id vomit on myself if we brought in vucevic. talk about a trash player. we dont need a 1980s offensive iso center. allen is our center now and longterm and is already better then vucevic. randle... again... he is a center and we have allen. prince and kurucs would play F in this scenario, not randle
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2124 » by Prokorov » Sun Jun 9, 2019 3:24 am

IceManBK1 wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:This would be a very good non Max FA team.
Dlo/George Hill
Harris/Levert
Prince/Kurucs
Randle/Brandon Clarke(trade DW to move up)
Vucevic/Allen

Would be very balanced team IMO. We got offense and defense. You can mix and match the starters and bench really well. I have Allen as backup center cuz Vucevic is better overall. Say what you want about his defense. I don't trust Allen being the paint patroller neither. We have better wings to prevent guard penetration. So our bigs can focus on guarding their own man and not get into foul trouble trying to guard the smalls.

Gross. If they miss on all the big time guys they better at least walk with Tobias Harris and a great trade.


Wouldn't mind maxing Tobias Harris and Dlo. Then trade Allen+DW(can flip him for a high teen pick) for Clint Capela. that's your great trade lol.
Dlo
Harris
Prince
T Harris
Capela


thats a terible trade
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2125 » by MGrand15 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 3:40 am

Prokorov wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Gross. If they miss on all the big time guys they better at least walk with Tobias Harris and a great trade.


Wouldn't mind maxing Tobias Harris and Dlo. Then trade Allen+DW(can flip him for a high teen pick) for Clint Capela. that's your great trade lol.
Dlo
Harris
Prince
T Harris
Capela


thats a terible trade


That's a terrible trade - we wouldn't have room to sign Julius Randle.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2126 » by IceManBK1 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 3:45 am

MGrand15 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:
Wouldn't mind maxing Tobias Harris and Dlo. Then trade Allen+DW(can flip him for a high teen pick) for Clint Capela. that's your great trade lol.
Dlo
Harris
Prince
T Harris
Capela


thats a terible trade


That's a terrible trade - we wouldn't have room to sign Julius Randle.


no Randle in that lineup..Tobias Harris is our PF signing.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2127 » by IceManBK1 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 3:49 am

Prokorov wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:
IceManBK1 wrote:This would be a very good non Max FA team.
Dlo/George Hill
Harris/Levert
Prince/Kurucs
Randle/Brandon Clarke(trade DW to move up)
Vucevic/Allen

Would be very balanced team IMO. We got offense and defense. You can mix and match the starters and bench really well. I have Allen as backup center cuz Vucevic is better overall. Say what you want about his defense. I don't trust Allen being the paint patroller neither. We have better wings to prevent guard penetration. So our bigs can focus on guarding their own man and not get into foul trouble trying to guard the smalls.

Gross. If they miss on all the big time guys they better at least walk with Tobias Harris and a great trade.


yeah id vomit on myself if we brought in vucevic. talk about a trash player. we dont need a 1980s offensive iso center. allen is our center now and longterm and is already better then vucevic. randle... again... he is a center and we have allen. prince and kurucs would play F in this scenario, not randle


Randle is not a center..he's a pf. but could be used as a small ball 5. his midrange and 3 pt shot has improved alot. he's a diff player than he was in his first couple of yrs. and vucevic isn't 1980s center. he's in the mold of brook lopez. not the greatest defender at center. but skilled scorers all over the court. not just post up players.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2128 » by Prokorov » Sun Jun 9, 2019 6:27 am

IceManBK1 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Gross. If they miss on all the big time guys they better at least walk with Tobias Harris and a great trade.


yeah id vomit on myself if we brought in vucevic. talk about a trash player. we dont need a 1980s offensive iso center. allen is our center now and longterm and is already better then vucevic. randle... again... he is a center and we have allen. prince and kurucs would play F in this scenario, not randle


Randle is not a center..he's a pf. but could be used as a small ball 5. his midrange and 3 pt shot has improved alot. he's a diff player than he was in his first couple of yrs. and vucevic isn't 1980s center. he's in the mold of brook lopez. not the greatest defender at center. but skilled scorers all over the court. not just post up players.


there is a reason we got rid of brook lopepz. because you cant win giving big/max money to players of that mold. Marks was very smart to kick lopez to the curb, bring in a modern center, and invest the big money in gaurds and wings.

We dont have a PF in our system and Randle is the worst possible fit you could find here at wing. he is a center here, but we have allen. it would be terrible, as would trading allen and dinwiddie for capella, who allen will soon be better than
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2129 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jun 9, 2019 12:32 pm

I can't wait for free agency to begin so that these NBA 2K trades can stop being posted on here.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2130 » by therealbig3 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 3:49 pm

Prokorov wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:I guess I just view Kyrie in a different light than you guys. You guys are saying he's a legit star, and in that top 10-20 range of players, and I just disagree. Yeah, he's had times where he's unbelievable and easily that good, but he's also had moments where he's really bad. His overall level of play is top 20 level? IDK. Maybe there just aren't that many good players out there that Kyrie still makes top 20.


What argument is there that he isnt?

statistically he certainly is.
impact wise he is (best player on a 1 seed celtics team and 50 win celtic team this year
Clutch late in games and in the playoffs

he is one of the best penetrators in the league and under the rim finishers of all tme and an outstanding range shooter.

You can't tell me that the season that Kyrie and the Celtics had this year wasn't a big failure. Especially after what they did the year before without Kyrie. What exactly has he done to prove that he's more than a flashy player who puts up impressive but somewhat empty stats? And yeah, I know that he had some unbelievable playoff performances and was the 2nd biggest contributor to a championship a few years ago...how consistently has he been able to replicate that? Can he be that good consistently on a team like ours as opposed to a team with LeBron?


What exactly is empty about Kyrie's stats? year 1 he lead the celtics to 60 wins and 1 seed. this year was a disappointment... but thats hardly alll on him. ego maniacs like tatum and rozier thinking they are superstars cause they beat a young disjointed philly team in the playoffs? Kyrie never wanted to be in boston, he tried to make it work until his deal was up, but the young guys there and the enviornment is toxic, they all agree on that

So I have these questions about a healthy Kyrie, throw in the fact that he's injury-prone and could easily just not be available for half the season and the playoffs just because, and I really just don't know if Kyrie moves the needle much at all and would be worth throwing a bunch of cap space at.

injuries are a more legit concern then some nonsense he has empty stats

The real benefit of signing Kyrie Irving would be if he came attached to another big name player that actually is THAT good, like Durant or Kawhi or Davis. If we end up not getting anyone else and we spent huge money on Kyrie Irving and he's our only big move, I'd be disappointed. I know that you can't say no, and I know that just sitting on cap space is pointless, but I'm just so meh about Kyrie.


the benefit of kyrie is that he moves our floor to a 50 win playoff team and our ceiling to a 60 win #1 seed


They made the conference finals without Kyrie Irving last year...he comes back along with Hayward, and they don't even win 50 games, and they lose in the 2nd round while he plays like trash. The only time Kyrie Irving has played well in the playoffs is when he's been with LeBron James, and the Cavs made the Finals without Kyrie the very next year. He has not proven that he's a major factor in a team's success at all. That's what I mean by empty stats. He's a great scorer. Cool. Doesn't make anybody better (seems to make them worse actually), and he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. Is always injured and is toxic in the locker room too.

I really don't see a huge difference between him and DLo. Same mold of player, except DLo probably plays better defense but isn't as good of a scorer obviously.

LeBron, Curry, Harden, Durant, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Embiid, Westbrook, George, Jokic, Lillard, Green, Klay, Davis, Paul, Aldridge...that's completely off the top of my head, and I would take these guys without question over Kyrie. That's 17 players. I'm sure if I sat down in front of a list of everyone in the league, I could pick a few more I would rather have, or am at least indifferent about compared to Kyrie. Like Draymond Green for example, I have him listed as one of those 17...there are a lot of players in his ilk around the league, guys that aren't big time scorers but do so much out on the court, including playing half the game at an elite level (defense), that I just think they're flat out better than Kyrie, even though he's your traditional 24-30 ppg "#1 option".
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2131 » by Netaman » Sun Jun 9, 2019 4:16 pm

If we get Kyrie, we all know what the hopeful follow-up move is (KD). Here's a new question, if KD is the main move and Mark's decides to keep DLo > Kyrie, then what's the follow-up move? It would seem that there would be room for 1 more non-max but substantial addition, either via FA or trade. If this is basically our lineup:

DLo - Din - Musa
Levert - Harris
KD - Prince
Kurocs - draft pick
Allen - draft pick

So what's your next move? Obviously would seem that another big would be helpful, even if Ed Davis is willing to come back on the 4.7m room exception. Maybe Marcus Morris? Or maybe there's a lesser known Jamychal Green/Montrezl Harrell type? Brook Lopez off the bench!!!!
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2132 » by Prokorov » Sun Jun 9, 2019 5:11 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
They made the conference finals without Kyrie Irving last year...he comes back along with Hayward, and they don't even win 50 games, and they lose in the 2nd round while he plays like trash. The only time Kyrie Irving has played well in the playoffs is when he's been with LeBron James, and the Cavs made the Finals without Kyrie the very next year. He has not proven that he's a major factor in a team's success at all. That's what I mean by empty stats. He's a great scorer. Cool. Doesn't make anybody better (seems to make them worse actually), and he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. Is always injured and is toxic in the locker room too.


they didnt make the conference finals without kyrie... Kyrie led them to a #2 seed... without that, the celtics dont get out of the first round. they were 1-8 on the road in the playoffs that season (the 1 win an overtime win philly choked away in regulation). Kyrie helong them get home court was enormous for them getting to the ECF.

I really don't see a huge difference between him and DLo. Same mold of player, except DLo probably plays better defense but isn't as good of a scorer obviously.


irving does everything Dlo does but then also can blow by his man and get to the FT line.

LeBron, Curry, Harden, Durant, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Embiid, Westbrook, George, Jokic, Lillard, Green, Klay, Davis, Paul, Aldridge...that's completely off the top of my head, and I would take these guys without question over Kyrie. That's 17 players. I.


laughable. if you want to have a real discussion fine. but if you are going to throw around nonsense like this we cant have an intelligent discussion.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2133 » by therealbig3 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 6:31 pm

Prokorov wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
They made the conference finals without Kyrie Irving last year...he comes back along with Hayward, and they don't even win 50 games, and they lose in the 2nd round while he plays like trash. The only time Kyrie Irving has played well in the playoffs is when he's been with LeBron James, and the Cavs made the Finals without Kyrie the very next year. He has not proven that he's a major factor in a team's success at all. That's what I mean by empty stats. He's a great scorer. Cool. Doesn't make anybody better (seems to make them worse actually), and he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. Is always injured and is toxic in the locker room too.


they didnt make the conference finals without kyrie... Kyrie led them to a #2 seed... without that, the celtics dont get out of the first round. they were 1-8 on the road in the playoffs that season (the 1 win an overtime win philly choked away in regulation). Kyrie helong them get home court was enormous for them getting to the ECF.

I really don't see a huge difference between him and DLo. Same mold of player, except DLo probably plays better defense but isn't as good of a scorer obviously.


irving does everything Dlo does but then also can blow by his man and get to the FT line.

LeBron, Curry, Harden, Durant, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Embiid, Westbrook, George, Jokic, Lillard, Green, Klay, Davis, Paul, Aldridge...that's completely off the top of my head, and I would take these guys without question over Kyrie. That's 17 players. I.


laughable. if you want to have a real discussion fine. but if you are going to throw around nonsense like this we cant have an intelligent discussion.


Go ahead, make an argument for Kyrie over any of those players.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2134 » by MGrand15 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 7:19 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:I can't wait for free agency to begin so that these NBA 2K trades can stop being posted on here.


Yeah seriously. I much prefer talking about the team we actually have versus hypothetical teams. There's so much craziness going around.

People wanting to dump 80% of the team. With the possibility of Russell being straight up renounced after the awesome year he's had and the bond he's built with the team / fanbase - I just want this speculation to be over.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2135 » by Prokorov » Sun Jun 9, 2019 9:14 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
They made the conference finals without Kyrie Irving last year...he comes back along with Hayward, and they don't even win 50 games, and they lose in the 2nd round while he plays like trash. The only time Kyrie Irving has played well in the playoffs is when he's been with LeBron James, and the Cavs made the Finals without Kyrie the very next year. He has not proven that he's a major factor in a team's success at all. That's what I mean by empty stats. He's a great scorer. Cool. Doesn't make anybody better (seems to make them worse actually), and he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. Is always injured and is toxic in the locker room too.


they didnt make the conference finals without kyrie... Kyrie led them to a #2 seed... without that, the celtics dont get out of the first round. they were 1-8 on the road in the playoffs that season (the 1 win an overtime win philly choked away in regulation). Kyrie helong them get home court was enormous for them getting to the ECF.

I really don't see a huge difference between him and DLo. Same mold of player, except DLo probably plays better defense but isn't as good of a scorer obviously.


irving does everything Dlo does but then also can blow by his man and get to the FT line.

LeBron, Curry, Harden, Durant, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Embiid, Westbrook, George, Jokic, Lillard, Green, Klay, Davis, Paul, Aldridge...that's completely off the top of my head, and I would take these guys without question over Kyrie. That's 17 players. I.


laughable. if you want to have a real discussion fine. but if you are going to throw around nonsense like this we cant have an intelligent discussion.


Go ahead, make an argument for Kyrie over any of those players.


Well from a statistical standpoint he is better then: westbrook, green, paul, aldridge. klay and from a wins/PO wins standpoint he is as good or better then westbrook,george, jokic, aldridge.

He had less talent around him then anyone on that list as well
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2136 » by vincecarter4pres » Sun Jun 9, 2019 9:29 pm

Prokorov wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
they didnt make the conference finals without kyrie... Kyrie led them to a #2 seed... without that, the celtics dont get out of the first round. they were 1-8 on the road in the playoffs that season (the 1 win an overtime win philly choked away in regulation). Kyrie helong them get home court was enormous for them getting to the ECF.



irving does everything Dlo does but then also can blow by his man and get to the FT line.



laughable. if you want to have a real discussion fine. but if you are going to throw around nonsense like this we cant have an intelligent discussion.


Go ahead, make an argument for Kyrie over any of those players.


Well from a statistical standpoint he is better then: westbrook, green, paul, aldridge. klay and from a wins/PO wins standpoint he is as good or better then westbrook,george, jokic, aldridge.

He had less talent around him then anyone on that list as well

Yeah I waa gonna quote realbig3's post and say similar. Although there's a purely entertainment value argument to be made for all his list, its absurd to say CP3, Green, Klay or LMA are still or ever have been in the convo and I'd personally side with you on Westbrook.

It dilutes one's point when you feel the need to stretch these types of lists to strengthen said point, you're actually doing the opposite. We've all been guilty of this and right now big3 has certainly joined the party lol.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2137 » by Netaman » Sun Jun 9, 2019 10:09 pm

LeBron, Curry, Harden, Durant, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Embiid, Westbrook, George, Jokic, Lillard, Green, Klay, Davis, Paul, Aldridge.


I mean, that's still 12 no brainers and he said it was off the top of his head. I'd probably add Gobert + KAT.

Irving is a very good player but he's also clearly not on in the general top tier of the 5-7 players who have the ability to be the best player on a championship team, 3 of whom happen to be currently available and we're linked to.

Maybe he's the key piece to make 1 of those other pieces happen, but if we are talking ideal offseason, I'm adding 1 of those 3 to the group of guards we already have + then trying to further add to the front court with the remaining cap room. Guess we will find out soon enough.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2138 » by GTR11 » Sun Jun 9, 2019 10:11 pm

Big3 have a point when he's questioning Kyries leadership and stats do need to be put into a context. Long story short you need to track what he did and said before putting #'s and comparing it with others.
Me personally, I won't doubt Kyries or KD's talent or #'s.However I will question their leadership and mental toughness. Neither one proved they been able to be true number player on respective teams. Also both have some rep creating toxic environment that didn't seat well with their teammates. Look they both great talents and that's why teams fight for their services, but unless you have strong leadership in your locker to keep that in check... you asking for drama and chaos.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2139 » by drchaos » Sun Jun 9, 2019 10:29 pm

Netaman wrote:If we get Kyrie, we all know what the hopeful follow-up move is (KD). Here's a new question, if KD is the main move and Mark's decides to keep DLo > Kyrie, then what's the follow-up move? It would seem that there would be room for 1 more non-max but substantial addition, either via FA or trade. If this is basically our lineup:

DLo - Din - Musa
Levert - Harris
KD - Prince
Kurocs - draft pick
Allen - draft pick

So what's your next move? Obviously would seem that another big would be helpful, even if Ed Davis is willing to come back on the 4.7m room exception. Maybe Marcus Morris? Or maybe there's a lesser known Jamychal Green/Montrezl Harrell type? Brook Lopez off the bench!!!!

Randal would be nice.
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Re: Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2140 » by Prokorov » Sun Jun 9, 2019 11:14 pm

Netaman wrote:
LeBron, Curry, Harden, Durant, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Embiid, Westbrook, George, Jokic, Lillard, Green, Klay, Davis, Paul, Aldridge.


I mean, that's still 12 no brainers and he said it was off the top of his head. I'd probably add Gobert + KAT.

Irving is a very good player but he's also clearly not on in the general top tier of the 5-7 players who have the ability to be the best player on a championship team, 3 of whom happen to be currently available and we're linked to.

Maybe he's the key piece to make 1 of those other pieces happen, but if we are talking ideal offseason, I'm adding 1 of those 3 to the group of guards we already have + then trying to further add to the front court with the remaining cap room. Guess we will find out soon enough.


I eliminated the ones that were no questions asked no argument better then kyrie. the rest you need to go deeper. but i say Kyrie is better then davis, george, jokic and embiid also

KAT?

LOL!
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