therealbig3 wrote:I guess I just view Kyrie in a different light than you guys. You guys are saying he's a legit star, and in that top 10-20 range of players, and I just disagree. Yeah, he's had times where he's unbelievable and easily that good, but he's also had moments where he's really bad. His overall level of play is top 20 level? IDK. Maybe there just aren't that many good players out there that Kyrie still makes top 20.
What argument is there that he isnt?
statistically he certainly is.
impact wise he is (best player on a 1 seed celtics team and 50 win celtic team this year
Clutch late in games and in the playoffs
he is one of the best penetrators in the league and under the rim finishers of all tme and an outstanding range shooter.
You can't tell me that the season that Kyrie and the Celtics had this year wasn't a big failure. Especially after what they did the year before without Kyrie. What exactly has he done to prove that he's more than a flashy player who puts up impressive but somewhat empty stats? And yeah, I know that he had some unbelievable playoff performances and was the 2nd biggest contributor to a championship a few years ago...how consistently has he been able to replicate that? Can he be that good consistently on a team like ours as opposed to a team with LeBron?
What exactly is empty about Kyrie's stats? year 1 he lead the celtics to 60 wins and 1 seed. this year was a disappointment... but thats hardly alll on him. ego maniacs like tatum and rozier thinking they are superstars cause they beat a young disjointed philly team in the playoffs? Kyrie never wanted to be in boston, he tried to make it work until his deal was up, but the young guys there and the enviornment is toxic, they all agree on that
So I have these questions about a healthy Kyrie, throw in the fact that he's injury-prone and could easily just not be available for half the season and the playoffs just because, and I really just don't know if Kyrie moves the needle much at all and would be worth throwing a bunch of cap space at.
injuries are a more legit concern then some nonsense he has empty stats
The real benefit of signing Kyrie Irving would be if he came attached to another big name player that actually is THAT good, like Durant or Kawhi or Davis. If we end up not getting anyone else and we spent huge money on Kyrie Irving and he's our only big move, I'd be disappointed. I know that you can't say no, and I know that just sitting on cap space is pointless, but I'm just so meh about Kyrie.
the benefit of kyrie is that he moves our floor to a 50 win playoff team and our ceiling to a 60 win #1 seed
They made the conference finals without Kyrie Irving last year...he comes back along with Hayward, and they don't even win 50 games, and they lose in the 2nd round while he plays like trash. The only time Kyrie Irving has played well in the playoffs is when he's been with LeBron James, and the Cavs made the Finals without Kyrie the very next year. He has not proven that he's a major factor in a team's success at all. That's what I mean by empty stats. He's a great scorer. Cool. Doesn't make anybody better (seems to make them worse actually), and he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. Is always injured and is toxic in the locker room too.
I really don't see a huge difference between him and DLo. Same mold of player, except DLo probably plays better defense but isn't as good of a scorer obviously.
LeBron, Curry, Harden, Durant, Giannis, Butler, Kawhi, Embiid, Westbrook, George, Jokic, Lillard, Green, Klay, Davis, Paul, Aldridge...that's completely off the top of my head, and I would take these guys without question over Kyrie. That's 17 players. I'm sure if I sat down in front of a list of everyone in the league, I could pick a few more I would rather have, or am at least indifferent about compared to Kyrie. Like Draymond Green for example, I have him listed as one of those 17...there are a lot of players in his ilk around the league, guys that aren't big time scorers but do so much out on the court, including playing half the game at an elite level (defense), that I just think they're flat out better than Kyrie, even though he's your traditional 24-30 ppg "#1 option".