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Phase 4 / The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD)

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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#61 » by Prokorov » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:02 am

MrDollarBills wrote:can't wait for that Nets vs. Raptors game in Barclays this season where Leonard notices that the crowd is cheering louder for his team than the Nets.

you all are playing yourselves. wake up.


i cant wait either, for him to talk to marks and nets guys before and after the game, maybe go out with some of them. see the facilities, the nets staff, the arena. nets fans cheering and chanting his name. i think that will go a long way
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#62 » by DarkXaero » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:15 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:I actually like Kawhi going to the Raptors because in my opinion, it keeps the possibility of Kawhi going somewhere else open. If he landed with the Lakers, I think that would have been set in stone. Additionally (and likely more relevant to us), Spurs gain an all star in Derozan in place of a star player who wasn't playing for them. This puts the Spurs back in playoffs contention in the West and affects Denver's chances of becoming a high playoffs seed in the West.

Anyway, Idk about yall but I'm going to enjoy any good star FA speculation linked to us. If that Toronto beat reporter is right, and Kawhi is considering NYC/Brooklyn, then its a massive thing for us (just being considered). I think some of you are underestimating what Marks/new FO have done for this franchise. We have forged a great reputation among players/agents and even the guys who have left us have said nothing about positive things about their time here. I think that image building and Marks' connections can help us big time in free agency.


I'm underestimating for sure because I think the best thing that will happen to us in 2019 is us drafting a possible stud with our lotto pick, but you guys could be severely overestimating. I don't think "reputation" and and "image building" mean a goddamn thing.

No one was signing with Golden State prior to them becoming the dynasty of the NBA. Now all of a sudden you have Kevin Durant going there, and Demarcus Cousins playing there for 5 million dollars. Why? Because golden state built their club up from the ground up with excellent scouting, drafting, and installing a great infrastructure that is conducive to winning basketball from training, preparation and usage of analytics. They are proven winners.

We have the infrastructure part down pact. The Nets are forward thinking in that regard. But guess what part we aren't going to convince players about?

WINNING GAMES.

WE ARE A LOSING FRANCHISE AND HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY. We have only had two seasons where we were great. TWO. And that was what, nearly two decades ago?

we don't have much to sell free agents on in that department. you guys talk about franchise valuation, cap space, assets etc. NBA players don't think about that stuff. they just want to either go to a place that is already known for winning (THE LAKERS), where they don't have to do much heavy lifting or team up with their buddies.

Good luck to Sean Marks, because if he tries to sell this place as a destination where people can win, he'll have a tough time.

if he even gets a meeting with any of these top free agents. which I highly doubt.
Warriors are actually a great example of turning around a franchise that was historically bad. Sure they drafted a generational player and two damn good players, but Kevin Durant cited the Warriors playing style, the infrastructure, and the organization for signing with them. We don't have the stars in place, but we have good young players, a very well liked FO, the allure of NYC/big market, great facilities, and the ability to create two max slots. No one is saying that its guaranteed to get us stars in FA, but its a good foundation to start on to recruit star FAs, and clearly Marks believes that too. You keep citing our Jersey days but NYC isn't Jersey. Yea, Kevin Durant didn't take a meeting with us because we were hopeless at that point, and Kevin Durant only took meetings with like a few teams (Celtics, Warriors, OKC). We're in much better shape right now to go after free agents in 2019.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#63 » by kamaze » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:18 am

The team is shaping up as young, competitive, hard work bunch. The front office is building the foundation of a strong team (think the Spurs) and keeping flexibility. While it's true they have money for free agents the moves he's made so far haven't been as simple as we have money sign any free agent available he's been acquiring picks with every trade he makes it seems.

”The patience, I can only give credit to ownership that’s stood by and hopefully there’s something down the road, so between Mikhail [Prokhorov] and Joe [Tsai] they’ve been terrific with how they’ve shown their patience and belief in us,”.

“And also, the coaching staff. They want to win right now, and I don’t blame them. That’s part of what I love about our group here, they’re competitive as any. But again, I got to rein them back in and say, ‘trust us, if we’re trying to build this long-term, it’s going to take some time.’”

“I think what we’ve done is we’ve strategically looked at various different ways to build and we’ve been able to pivot over the course of these last couple years, and that’s the same case of what we’ll do over this next year. Obviously the cap space and future draft picks and so forth that we’ve been able to acquire will help in a variety of different ways. Whether that’s in the free agent market, I have no idea. But it just gives us more tools in the toolbox.”
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#64 » by kamaze » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:34 am

MrDollarBills wrote:can't wait for that Nets vs. Raptors game in Barclays this season where Leonard notices that the crowd is cheering louder for his team than the Nets.

you all are playing yourselves. wake up.


It's gotta start somewhere you can't expect everyone else to be fanatical if you yourself aren't. There's nothing wrong with wanting the team to get better that should be everyone's expectation.

I agree with you the star chasing is a fantasy that hasn't happened in the past like the gm said
Obviously the cap space and future draft picks and so forth that we’ve been able to acquire will help in a variety of different ways. Whether that’s in the free agent market, I have no idea. But it just gives us more tools in the toolbox.”


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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#65 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:32 am

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:can't wait for that Nets vs. Raptors game in Barclays this season where Leonard notices that the crowd is cheering louder for his team than the Nets.

you all are playing yourselves. wake up.


i cant wait either, for him to talk to marks and nets guys before and after the game, maybe go out with some of them. see the facilities, the nets staff, the arena. nets fans cheering and chanting his name. i think that will go a long way


yeah. what most likely happens is Leonard hops on the team bus after they smack the **** out of us while being cheered on by the Barclays center crowd and heads out.

See, you get yourself all hyped up over this and then when Marks fails to deliver you're going to be the first to dump on him because he couldn't sign Leonard. Watch.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#66 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:44 am

DarkXaero wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:I actually like Kawhi going to the Raptors because in my opinion, it keeps the possibility of Kawhi going somewhere else open. If he landed with the Lakers, I think that would have been set in stone. Additionally (and likely more relevant to us), Spurs gain an all star in Derozan in place of a star player who wasn't playing for them. This puts the Spurs back in playoffs contention in the West and affects Denver's chances of becoming a high playoffs seed in the West.

Anyway, Idk about yall but I'm going to enjoy any good star FA speculation linked to us. If that Toronto beat reporter is right, and Kawhi is considering NYC/Brooklyn, then its a massive thing for us (just being considered). I think some of you are underestimating what Marks/new FO have done for this franchise. We have forged a great reputation among players/agents and even the guys who have left us have said nothing about positive things about their time here. I think that image building and Marks' connections can help us big time in free agency.


I'm underestimating for sure because I think the best thing that will happen to us in 2019 is us drafting a possible stud with our lotto pick, but you guys could be severely overestimating. I don't think "reputation" and and "image building" mean a goddamn thing.

No one was signing with Golden State prior to them becoming the dynasty of the NBA. Now all of a sudden you have Kevin Durant going there, and Demarcus Cousins playing there for 5 million dollars. Why? Because golden state built their club up from the ground up with excellent scouting, drafting, and installing a great infrastructure that is conducive to winning basketball from training, preparation and usage of analytics. They are proven winners.

We have the infrastructure part down pact. The Nets are forward thinking in that regard. But guess what part we aren't going to convince players about?

WINNING GAMES.

WE ARE A LOSING FRANCHISE AND HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY. We have only had two seasons where we were great. TWO. And that was what, nearly two decades ago?

we don't have much to sell free agents on in that department. you guys talk about franchise valuation, cap space, assets etc. NBA players don't think about that stuff. they just want to either go to a place that is already known for winning (THE LAKERS), where they don't have to do much heavy lifting or team up with their buddies.

Good luck to Sean Marks, because if he tries to sell this place as a destination where people can win, he'll have a tough time.

if he even gets a meeting with any of these top free agents. which I highly doubt.
Warriors are actually a great example of turning around a franchise that was historically bad. Sure they drafted a generational player and two damn good players, but Kevin Durant cited the Warriors playing style, the infrastructure, and the organization for signing with them. We don't have the stars in place, but we have good young players, a very well liked FO, the allure of NYC/big market, great facilities, and the ability to create two max slots. No one is saying that its guaranteed to get us stars in FA, but its a good foundation to start on to recruit star FAs, and clearly Marks believes that too. You keep citing our Jersey days but NYC isn't Jersey. Yea, Kevin Durant didn't take a meeting with us because we were hopeless at that point, and Kevin Durant only took meetings with like a few teams (Celtics, Warriors, OKC). We're in much better shape right now to go after free agents in 2019.


The Warriors sucked just like we do now.

They turned things around by being patient, drafting the right players, and also installing people who are forward thinking in terms of training, on court performance, analytics, etc.

This is the route we should approach. Building via the draft and acquiring assets.

No one cares about the allure of the NYC big market or great facilities. Players care about being a part of a winning organization. The Nets aren't that.

I don't see much of a difference between our Jersey days versus Brooklyn. we have no fan base. When people on sports radio talk about the NY franchises they mention Yankees, Giants, Jets, Mets, Rangers, Islanders. People forget that the Nets are even in New York! Hell, people still call them THE NEW JERSEY NETS.

In fact, our jersey days were actually better in terms of on court stuff. we went to two NBA finals. TWO. We then had the Vince Carter days where we were at least respectable. What have we done since moving to BK?

-1st round knockout by a Bulls team where we watched Deron Williams and Brook Lopez get punked by Nate Robinson and Joakim Noah. Joe Johnson was off somewhere snoozing in a corner.

-traded multiple 1st rounders to field a luxury tax team that barely got past the Raptors and then got dragged by the Miami Heat. Deron Williams was visibly seen running from the ball in those games.

-fielded a sub .500 that somehow stumbled into the playoffs. Deron Williams basically plays himself right out of the NBA, Joe Johnson can be seen visibly sleeping while he's standing on the court.

and we've been ass ever since. You think free agents are going to come running to this club?

Once the Nets start winning on their own merits, the flood gates will open. until then, these delusions of kawhi leonard forming a super team with klay thompson and kyrie irving in Brooklyn are 100% pipe dreams.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#67 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:49 am

This whole chasing stars narrative on here shows me that no one has learned anything from the last several years.

Next summer is going to be hot and cruel for a lot of you on here when your dreams of the Nets forming a super team don't come true. Me? I'll be good. Marks will stay the course. we'll retain who needs to be retained, we'll draft well, we will accumulate more assets and continue to build slowly and properly.

I'm sure the narrative at that point will jump from "hey lets form a super team with kawhi, kyrie, and klay!" to "omg lets trade all of our first round picks and every young player that we have for anthony davis!!"

watch. this is exactly what will happen.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#68 » by Prokorov » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:18 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:can't wait for that Nets vs. Raptors game in Barclays this season where Leonard notices that the crowd is cheering louder for his team than the Nets.

you all are playing yourselves. wake up.


i cant wait either, for him to talk to marks and nets guys before and after the game, maybe go out with some of them. see the facilities, the nets staff, the arena. nets fans cheering and chanting his name. i think that will go a long way


yeah. what most likely happens is Leonard hops on the team bus after they smack the **** out of us while being cheered on by the Barclays center crowd and heads out.

See, you get yourself all hyped up over this and then when Marks fails to deliver you're going to be the first to dump on him because he couldn't sign Leonard. Watch.


who is "hyped up" all im saying is the nets are a legitimate destination and probably in the top 3 or 5 teams these stars consider next summer. and i wont kill marks for missing on those guys if he does.

the only thing id kill marks for is missing and then using that money on scrubby 3rd tier stars instead of staying the course with a slow rebuild.

Kyrie, Kawhi, Klay, Butler.... those are guys you pivot for. otherwise, keep rebuilding via draft and stockpiling assets, reset sights on the davis/giannis summer.

but dont spend 60 million in cap on tobias harris, kemba walker, and vucevic
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#69 » by Keith Van Horn » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:47 pm

seems like best case scenario at this point is for the Nets to win as much as possible if they want to get anyone in the 2019 sweepstakes. I've still got 1 foot in the "tank for a top 3 pick, develop young talent, don't waste money, acquire assets" boat and 1 foot in the "time in now" boat. But it's pretty clear they're going to try to ball out this year and make shrewd low key moves.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#70 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:30 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:This whole chasing stars narrative on here shows me that no one has learned anything from the last several years.

Next summer is going to be hot and cruel for a lot of you on here when your dreams of the Nets forming a super team don't come true. Me? I'll be good. Marks will stay the course. we'll retain who needs to be retained, we'll draft well, we will accumulate more assets and continue to build slowly and properly.

I'm sure the narrative at that point will jump from "hey lets form a super team with kawhi, kyrie, and klay!" to "omg lets trade all of our first round picks and every young player that we have for anthony davis!!"

watch. this is exactly what will happen.

Damn dude, who poured Hatorade in your Corn Flakes?

You've gone from a realist and cautious to a flat out pessimist consumed with superstition.

First off, at least for me, I'm not going to be crushed, or angry, or surprised if we strike out in free agency or trade next summer. As long as the cap is spent and/or managed wisely and a treadmill with little to no hope of getting better isn't formed, I'll be fine with whatever direction Marks and co. take this roster. I feel most others here will feel the same, unless they're the ones already condemning Marks for his patience and lack of instant on court improvement.

Second, you're really stuck on this, "We're the Nets, we'll always suck, we'll never have anybody good, never have any success! Get used to it suckaz!", type of superstitious negativity. And it's your right to have that opinion as an individual and we're all here to talk Nets hoops and it's good to have a dissenting voice of reason, but you're hitting Rain Man levels here with your Uzi-like rate-of-fire repeating of said opinion lol.

The Warriors were once a laughing stock. The Clippers as well. The Nets too, yet even in the Swamp, even with a notorious cheapskate in Ratner with ulterior motives, we still had a contender for 4 years and a strong playoff team for a few years after, with 2 of the biggest names in professional basketball at the time on the roster, who both re-signed. We then had a horribly built, but big name team in Brooklyn. With a GM who destroyed a 5 to 7 year window of future basketball for the fans with a comic series of horrid trades. But we're climbing back out. Through these times we've had guys lobby to come here who were marque players at the time. D12. Garnett in the past before he was shipped to Boston. Michael Redd for a very brief period before his knee injury. And these were all in less relevant times, in even murkier transition periods. The buzz now is players are spreading the good word. Things have changed.

But back to other teams and turnarounds. How about the Kings? They're like the opposite. Went from a laughing stock, to a contender with ownership and management change, who made a series of savvy moves to form one of the most entertaining teams in the league for a long period, who were legitimately robbed of a trip to the Finals in one of the biggest rig jobs in American professional sports. Then the Maloofs sold and they're back to ****.

The Hawks were a big success back in the day, then mired in mediocrity, then became an extended success story and during that period attracted many young star free agents, starting with Joe Johnson wanting to leave an on the rise Phoenix to lead there when they were at their worst.

Memphis was a place players avoided like the plague and then formed a place players wanted to be, a real contender for a few years, with nearly a decade of strong playoff ball.

The Mavs were looked at like b-ball Siberia for the longest, but now they've been one of the more respected franchises and free agent and forced trade destinations with immense success for a decade and a half.

San An used to be the golden rule, now you have MVP level players and stars trying to force their way out.



The point is, the NBA is often fluid and cyclical. There are a handful of certain teams who always seem to have the upper hand, but there is always opportunity when you have a big market, a wealthy owner willing to spend, a wide open conference and management and coaching who get it.


You're too hung up on wins, on free agents wanting to join "playoff teams". The Warriors are the outlier in the free agent sense. They were the already best team in the league juggernaut, who caught the bitch-made superstar at his moment of weakness, who strategically kept open the cap just for all this to come together as a the perfect storm.



The other stars who forced trades, or joined forces, they did so for the aforementioned from the paragraph 2 above.

LeBron and Bosh joined Miami because they wanted to form Voltron with Wade and the #2 overall pick. Not because the Heat had just won 40 something games.

Harden wanted a place like Houston because he wanted his own team, with smart management, a big market, an owner who spends, a war chest of assets to add pieces around him, etc. Not because Houston was a perennial treadmill.

Kawhi wanted LAL because that's where he's from, because of the market, because his uncle is a douche and he's an autistic weirdo who follows him like a 14 year old kid puppy with a wet nose and because they'll draw other players. Not because they've been winning so much.

Dwight wanted BK because of market, because of teaming with Deron and JJ. Because of opportunity. Not because they were a first round exit.

Kyrie wanted NYC and San An before he was shipped to Boston because he wanted his own team, a big market, spendy owners and the ability to team up with another great player who he views as a shade less great than himself. Not because the Knix are a constant lotto ball magnet, or because San An has such great Mexican food.

LeBron, the greatest player on the flat face of this planet Earth, wanted the Lakers. Not because they've been a 40 something win runaway train year after year. But because great players want to team up with another great player from a very short specific list of their mutual choosing, in a huge market. Not because he sees so much in Lonzo Ball or Hart...

If it were all about winning, most of these players wouldn't even want to leave the situations they are in! Why would Kyrie ever dream of leaving Boston? Kawhi the Spurs? Why wouldn't LeBron have went somewhere like Philly? Found a way to force his way to Houston? Found a route to the Pelicans?



Will we land 2 superstar free agents next summer? Not likely. But I'm not going to be so insanely dismissive as you due to preconceived notions and superstitious sports witch craft. And I'll be fine if they strikeout, use the cap to acquire picks and suck one last year yet again. But this team has a lot going for it as a destination next summer, it really does. There's a reason to be cautiously optimistic. Relax, live life a little, be a fan first and be critical second. Maybe it will all be wonderful. Maybe we'll crash and burn as we've been traumatized to expect as of late. :lol:



**** it though, maybe I am just a:

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So be it! :party:
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#71 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:33 pm

Keith Van Horn wrote:seems like best case scenario at this point is for the Nets to win as much as possible if they want to get anyone in the 2019 sweepstakes. I've still got 1 foot in the "tank for a top 3 pick, develop young talent, don't waste money, acquire assets" boat and 1 foot in the "time in now" boat. But it's pretty clear they're going to try to ball out this year and make shrewd low key moves.

Free agents(and their agents and camps) looking to team up don't normally equate 1st round sweeps or almost being 8th seed fodder as this big draw and hot button point of emphasis a lot of fans and pundits do.

They want market, smart management, an owner willing to spend, good role players around them, assets for management to make further moves to improve them and have long term viability, maybe a blue chip young guy on rookie scale to grow with them and eventually carry them when said free agent stars are winding down in their twilight.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#72 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:41 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
i cant wait either, for him to talk to marks and nets guys before and after the game, maybe go out with some of them. see the facilities, the nets staff, the arena. nets fans cheering and chanting his name. i think that will go a long way


yeah. what most likely happens is Leonard hops on the team bus after they smack the **** out of us while being cheered on by the Barclays center crowd and heads out.

See, you get yourself all hyped up over this and then when Marks fails to deliver you're going to be the first to dump on him because he couldn't sign Leonard. Watch.


who is "hyped up" all im saying is the nets are a legitimate destination and probably in the top 3 or 5 teams these stars consider next summer. and i wont kill marks for missing on those guys if he does.

the only thing id kill marks for is missing and then using that money on scrubby 3rd tier stars instead of staying the course with a slow rebuild.

Kyrie, Kawhi, Klay, Butler.... those are guys you pivot for. otherwise, keep rebuilding via draft and stockpiling assets, reset sights on the davis/giannis summer.

but dont spend 60 million in cap on tobias harris, kemba walker, and vucevic

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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#73 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:46 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
i cant wait either, for him to talk to marks and nets guys before and after the game, maybe go out with some of them. see the facilities, the nets staff, the arena. nets fans cheering and chanting his name. i think that will go a long way


yeah. what most likely happens is Leonard hops on the team bus after they smack the **** out of us while being cheered on by the Barclays center crowd and heads out.

See, you get yourself all hyped up over this and then when Marks fails to deliver you're going to be the first to dump on him because he couldn't sign Leonard. Watch.


who is "hyped up" all im saying is the nets are a legitimate destination and probably in the top 3 or 5 teams these stars consider next summer. and i wont kill marks for missing on those guys if he does.

the only thing id kill marks for is missing and then using that money on scrubby 3rd tier stars instead of staying the course with a slow rebuild.

Kyrie, Kawhi, Klay, Butler.... those are guys you pivot for. otherwise, keep rebuilding via draft and stockpiling assets, reset sights on the davis/giannis summer.

but dont spend 60 million in cap on tobias harris, kemba walker, and vucevic


I disagree. we aren't a legitimate destination. not yet. we need to keep building this talent base up first.

and I'm with you. Not if, but WHEN Marks misses on these guys i would prefer that he not spend money on 3rd tier players. maintain flexibility and stay the course.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#74 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:52 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:This whole chasing stars narrative on here shows me that no one has learned anything from the last several years.

Next summer is going to be hot and cruel for a lot of you on here when your dreams of the Nets forming a super team don't come true. Me? I'll be good. Marks will stay the course. we'll retain who needs to be retained, we'll draft well, we will accumulate more assets and continue to build slowly and properly.

I'm sure the narrative at that point will jump from "hey lets form a super team with kawhi, kyrie, and klay!" to "omg lets trade all of our first round picks and every young player that we have for anthony davis!!"

watch. this is exactly what will happen.

Damn dude, who poured Hatorade in your Corn Flakes?

You've gone from a realist and cautious to a flat out pessimist consumed with superstition.

First off, at least for me, I'm not going to be crushed, or angry, or surprised if we strike out in free agency or trade next summer. As long as the cap is spent and/or managed wisely and a treadmill with little to no hope of getting better isn't formed, I'll be fine with whatever direction Marks and co. take this roster. I feel most others here will feel the same, unless they're the ones already condemning Marks for his patience and lack of instant on court improvement.

Second, you're really stuck on this, "We're the Nets, we'll always suck, we'll never have anybody good, never have any success! Get used to it suckaz!", type of superstitious negativity. And it's your right to have that opinion as an individual and we're all here to talk Nets hoops and it's good to have a dissenting voice of reason, but you're hitting Rain Man levels here with your Uzi-like rate-of-fire repeating of said opinion lol.

The Warriors were once a laughing stock. The Clippers as well. The Nets too, yet even in the Swamp, even with a notorious cheapskate in Ratner with ulterior motives, we still had a contender for 4 years and a strong playoff team for a few years after, with 2 of the biggest names in professional basketball at the time on the roster, who both re-signed. We then had a horribly built, but big name team in Brooklyn. With a GM who destroyed a 5 to 7 year window of future basketball for the fans with a comic series of horrid trades. But we're climbing back out. Through these times we've had guys lobby to come here who were marque players at the time. D12. Garnett in the past before he was shipped to Boston. Michael Redd for a very brief period before his knee injury. And these were all in less relevant times, in even murkier transition periods. The buzz now is players are spreading the good word. Things have changed.

But back to other teams and turnarounds. How about the Kings? They're like the opposite. Went from a laughing stock, to a contender with ownership and management change, who made a series of savvy moves to form one of the most entertaining teams in the league for a long period, who were legitimately robbed of a trip to the Finals in one of the biggest rig jobs in American professional sports. Then the Maloofs sold and they're back to ****.

The Hawks were a big success back in the day, then mired in mediocrity, then became an extended success story and during that period attracted many young star free agents, starting with Joe Johnson wanting to leave an on the rise Phoenix to lead there when they were at their worst.

Memphis was a place players avoided like the plague and then formed a place players wanted to be, a real contender for a few years, with nearly a decade of strong playoff ball.

The Mavs were looked at like b-ball Siberia for the longest, but now they've been one of the more respected franchises and free agent and forced trade destinations with immense success for a decade and a half.

San An used to be the golden rule, now you have MVP level players and stars trying to force their way out.



The point is, the NBA is often fluid and cyclical. There are a handful of certain teams who always seem to have the upper hand, but there is always opportunity when you have a big market, a wealthy owner willing to spend, a wide open conference and management and coaching who get it.


You're too hung up on wins, on free agents wanting to join "playoff teams". The Warriors are the outlier in the free agent sense. They were the already best team in the league juggernaut, who caught the bitch-made superstar at his moment of weakness, who strategically kept open the cap just for all this to come together as a the perfect storm.



The other stars who forced trades, or joined forces, they did so for the aforementioned from the paragraph 2 above.

LeBron and Bosh joined Miami because they wanted to form Voltron with Wade and the #2 overall pick. Not because the Heat had just won 40 something games.

Harden wanted a place like Houston because he wanted his own team, with smart management, a big market, an owner who spends, a war chest of assets to add pieces around him, etc. Not because Houston was a perennial treadmill.

Kawhi wanted LAL because that's where he's from, because of the market, because his uncle is a douche and he's an autistic weirdo who follows him like a 14 year old kid puppy with a wet nose and because they'll draw other players. Not because they've been winning so much.

Dwight wanted BK because of market, because of teaming with Deron and JJ. Because of opportunity. Not because they were a first round exit.

Kyrie wanted NYC and San An before he was shipped to Boston because he wanted his own team, a big market, spendy owners and the ability to team up with another great player who he views as a shade less great than himself. Not because the Knix are a constant lotto ball magnet, or because San An has such great Mexican food.

LeBron, the greatest player on the flat face of this planet Earth, wanted the Lakers. Not because they've been a 40 something win runaway train year after year. But because great players want to team up with another great player from a very short specific list of their mutual choosing, in a huge market. Not because he sees so much in Lonzo Ball or Hart...

If it were all about winning, most of these players wouldn't even want to leave the situations they are in! Why would Kyrie ever dream of leaving Boston? Kawhi the Spurs? Why wouldn't LeBron have went somewhere like Philly? Found a way to force his way to Houston? Found a route to the Pelicans?



Will we land 2 superstar free agents next summer? Not likely. But I'm not going to be so insanely dismissive as you due to preconceived notions and superstitious sports witch craft. And I'll be fine if they strikeout, use the cap to acquire picks and suck one last year yet again. But this team has a lot going for it as a destination next summer, it really does. There's a reason to be cautiously optimistic. Relax, live life a little, be a fan first and be critical second. Maybe it will all be wonderful. Maybe we'll crash and burn as we've been traumatized to expect as of late. :lol:



**** it though, maybe I am just a:

Image

So be it! :party:


I just don't see the cause for optimism. at all.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#75 » by TheNetsFan » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:31 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
yeah. what most likely happens is Leonard hops on the team bus after they smack the **** out of us while being cheered on by the Barclays center crowd and heads out.

See, you get yourself all hyped up over this and then when Marks fails to deliver you're going to be the first to dump on him because he couldn't sign Leonard. Watch.


who is "hyped up" all im saying is the nets are a legitimate destination and probably in the top 3 or 5 teams these stars consider next summer. and i wont kill marks for missing on those guys if he does.

the only thing id kill marks for is missing and then using that money on scrubby 3rd tier stars instead of staying the course with a slow rebuild.

Kyrie, Kawhi, Klay, Butler.... those are guys you pivot for. otherwise, keep rebuilding via draft and stockpiling assets, reset sights on the davis/giannis summer.

but dont spend 60 million in cap on tobias harris, kemba walker, and vucevic


I disagree. we aren't a legitimate destination. not yet. we need to keep building this talent base up first.

and I'm with you. Not if, but WHEN Marks misses on these guys i would prefer that he not spend money on 3rd tier players. maintain flexibility and stay the course.

It depends on what you consider 3rd tier, and how old they are. In some cases, I'd prefer to go with younger 3rd tier guys over older, injury-prone stars. I believe Marks is looking for consistency & longevity. That's not achieved bringing in 30+ year olds, no matter how good they are. The oldest FAs of consequence Marks has signed so far has been Booker (29) & Lin (28). I believe that's by design. Butler will be 30 in 2019, and has a history of missing time. Butler's games played per season: 42-82-67-65-67-76-59. It's a big risk dedicating long-term max money to a 30 year old who was only able to play 80% of his games throughout his 20s.

If Tobias/Kemba are tier 3 level players, sign me up. Don't max them, but if you can get them at a combined $40mil, and then add one truly elite star like Kawhi, I'd probably prefer 2 Levels 3s of those caliber players coupled with 1 level 1 to a 30+ year old level 2 star with an injury history.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#76 » by Prokorov » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Keith Van Horn wrote:seems like best case scenario at this point is for the Nets to win as much as possible if they want to get anyone in the 2019 sweepstakes. I've still got 1 foot in the "tank for a top 3 pick, develop young talent, don't waste money, acquire assets" boat and 1 foot in the "time in now" boat. But it's pretty clear they're going to try to ball out this year and make shrewd low key moves.


I actually think the opposite is true. i think us having a top 3 pick in the draft and able to draft RJ Barrett or Cam Reddish is alot more appealing then us winning 38 or 40 games.

If im a star, im not looking at an 8 seed and being like "championship!"

but i WOULD look at the team being able to add a stud in the draft + another max guy forming a legit big three.

Look at the Cavs for isntance. i know its not an apples to apples thing since kyrie was in place and lebron had ties to the cavs/ohio but that team was awful. but they had a second star in kyrie and the #1 pick which they turned into a second star (Love).

we could sign a second star and trade a top 3 pick for a third star or have that pick be the third star.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019”  

Post#77 » by Paradise » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:43 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:This whole chasing stars narrative on here shows me that no one has learned anything from the last several years.

Next summer is going to be hot and cruel for a lot of you on here when your dreams of the Nets forming a super team don't come true. Me? I'll be good. Marks will stay the course. we'll retain who needs to be retained, we'll draft well, we will accumulate more assets and continue to build slowly and properly.

I'm sure the narrative at that point will jump from "hey lets form a super team with kawhi, kyrie, and klay!" to "omg lets trade all of our first round picks and every young player that we have for anthony davis!!"

watch. this is exactly what will happen.

Damn dude, who poured Hatorade in your Corn Flakes?

You've gone from a realist and cautious to a flat out pessimist consumed with superstition.

First off, at least for me, I'm not going to be crushed, or angry, or surprised if we strike out in free agency or trade next summer. As long as the cap is spent and/or managed wisely and a treadmill with little to no hope of getting better isn't formed, I'll be fine with whatever direction Marks and co. take this roster. I feel most others here will feel the same, unless they're the ones already condemning Marks for his patience and lack of instant on court improvement.

Second, you're really stuck on this, "We're the Nets, we'll always suck, we'll never have anybody good, never have any success! Get used to it suckaz!", type of superstitious negativity. And it's your right to have that opinion as an individual and we're all here to talk Nets hoops and it's good to have a dissenting voice of reason, but you're hitting Rain Man levels here with your Uzi-like rate-of-fire repeating of said opinion lol.

The Warriors were once a laughing stock. The Clippers as well. The Nets too, yet even in the Swamp, even with a notorious cheapskate in Ratner with ulterior motives, we still had a contender for 4 years and a strong playoff team for a few years after, with 2 of the biggest names in professional basketball at the time on the roster, who both re-signed. We then had a horribly built, but big name team in Brooklyn. With a GM who destroyed a 5 to 7 year window of future basketball for the fans with a comic series of horrid trades. But we're climbing back out. Through these times we've had guys lobby to come here who were marque players at the time. D12. Garnett in the past before he was shipped to Boston. Michael Redd for a very brief period before his knee injury. And these were all in less relevant times, in even murkier transition periods. The buzz now is players are spreading the good word. Things have changed.

But back to other teams and turnarounds. How about the Kings? They're like the opposite. Went from a laughing stock, to a contender with ownership and management change, who made a series of savvy moves to form one of the most entertaining teams in the league for a long period, who were legitimately robbed of a trip to the Finals in one of the biggest rig jobs in American professional sports. Then the Maloofs sold and they're back to ****.

The Hawks were a big success back in the day, then mired in mediocrity, then became an extended success story and during that period attracted many young star free agents, starting with Joe Johnson wanting to leave an on the rise Phoenix to lead there when they were at their worst.

Memphis was a place players avoided like the plague and then formed a place players wanted to be, a real contender for a few years, with nearly a decade of strong playoff ball.

The Mavs were looked at like b-ball Siberia for the longest, but now they've been one of the more respected franchises and free agent and forced trade destinations with immense success for a decade and a half.

San An used to be the golden rule, now you have MVP level players and stars trying to force their way out.



The point is, the NBA is often fluid and cyclical. There are a handful of certain teams who always seem to have the upper hand, but there is always opportunity when you have a big market, a wealthy owner willing to spend, a wide open conference and management and coaching who get it.


You're too hung up on wins, on free agents wanting to join "playoff teams". The Warriors are the outlier in the free agent sense. They were the already best team in the league juggernaut, who caught the bitch-made superstar at his moment of weakness, who strategically kept open the cap just for all this to come together as a the perfect storm.



The other stars who forced trades, or joined forces, they did so for the aforementioned from the paragraph 2 above.

LeBron and Bosh joined Miami because they wanted to form Voltron with Wade and the #2 overall pick. Not because the Heat had just won 40 something games.

Harden wanted a place like Houston because he wanted his own team, with smart management, a big market, an owner who spends, a war chest of assets to add pieces around him, etc. Not because Houston was a perennial treadmill.

Kawhi wanted LAL because that's where he's from, because of the market, because his uncle is a douche and he's an autistic weirdo who follows him like a 14 year old kid puppy with a wet nose and because they'll draw other players. Not because they've been winning so much.

Dwight wanted BK because of market, because of teaming with Deron and JJ. Because of opportunity. Not because they were a first round exit.

Kyrie wanted NYC and San An before he was shipped to Boston because he wanted his own team, a big market, spendy owners and the ability to team up with another great player who he views as a shade less great than himself. Not because the Knix are a constant lotto ball magnet, or because San An has such great Mexican food.

LeBron, the greatest player on the flat face of this planet Earth, wanted the Lakers. Not because they've been a 40 something win runaway train year after year. But because great players want to team up with another great player from a very short specific list of their mutual choosing, in a huge market. Not because he sees so much in Lonzo Ball or Hart...

If it were all about winning, most of these players wouldn't even want to leave the situations they are in! Why would Kyrie ever dream of leaving Boston? Kawhi the Spurs? Why wouldn't LeBron have went somewhere like Philly? Found a way to force his way to Houston? Found a route to the Pelicans?



Will we land 2 superstar free agents next summer? Not likely. But I'm not going to be so insanely dismissive as you due to preconceived notions and superstitious sports witch craft. And I'll be fine if they strikeout, use the cap to acquire picks and suck one last year yet again. But this team has a lot going for it as a destination next summer, it really does. There's a reason to be cautiously optimistic. Relax, live life a little, be a fan first and be critical second. Maybe it will all be wonderful. Maybe we'll crash and burn as we've been traumatized to expect as of late. :lol:



**** it though, maybe I am just a:

Image

So be it! :party:


I just don't see the cause for optimism. at all.

Does that mean everyone else should be? You might as well just skip next season then. It will continuously talked about and we will continue to grind our way to wins.

It’s just kind of annoying to nitpick things not to be optimistic about. People can’t even discuss the core without **** on DLo or Dinwiddie. We can’t discuss FA because we’re not supposed to be but everyone else who is an insider could reference us as a future destination? So we’re supposed to talk about salary dumps for the next 10 years?

That makes no sense. Nobody guaranteed landing any of these guys but I think it’s pretty important to discuss what kind of team we’d build if we do attract them.

I’d rather focus on not having a 2013 season than worrying about never forgetting 2010 FA.

-We’re not coming off 12 wins.
- We’re not in Newark
- We’re not ran by imbeciles
- We’re not selling a star on waiting to play in Brooklyn anymore.
- We’re not selling Jay-Z as some market recruiter
- We’re not devoid of assets no longer
- We’re not pitching Courtney Lee and Lopez as our blue chip prospects.

That’s a terrible comparison.

We didn’t even attempt to attract free agents in 2012 under Billy King. We just made a stupid Joe Johnson, Wallace deal to appease Deron. We foolishly believed we were good enough there and reports were came out years back that we could’ve signed Dragic who would’ve come here had Deron walked to Dallas.

2019 is the first real free agency in the Brooklyn era. Period. It’s a big deal. There’s nothing wrong with having that conversation after our entire FO understands they are preparing.

You do have to factor into the reality Sean Marks is also looking to get extended. He has to speed up the process somewhat.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#78 » by CalamityX12 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:50 pm

Joe Johnson wasn't stupid.... he was great early.

That Wallace trade was the worst thing I've ever seen. perhaps the first time ever in my sports fandom life that I stopped and demanded answers from our FO explaining the exchange.
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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#79 » by Prokorov » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:41 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:This whole chasing stars narrative on here shows me that no one has learned anything from the last several years.

Next summer is going to be hot and cruel for a lot of you on here when your dreams of the Nets forming a super team don't come true. Me? I'll be good. Marks will stay the course. we'll retain who needs to be retained, we'll draft well, we will accumulate more assets and continue to build slowly and properly.

I'm sure the narrative at that point will jump from "hey lets form a super team with kawhi, kyrie, and klay!" to "omg lets trade all of our first round picks and every young player that we have for anthony davis!!"

watch. this is exactly what will happen.

Damn dude, who poured Hatorade in your Corn Flakes?

You've gone from a realist and cautious to a flat out pessimist consumed with superstition.

First off, at least for me, I'm not going to be crushed, or angry, or surprised if we strike out in free agency or trade next summer. As long as the cap is spent and/or managed wisely and a treadmill with little to no hope of getting better isn't formed, I'll be fine with whatever direction Marks and co. take this roster. I feel most others here will feel the same, unless they're the ones already condemning Marks for his patience and lack of instant on court improvement.

Second, you're really stuck on this, "We're the Nets, we'll always suck, we'll never have anybody good, never have any success! Get used to it suckaz!", type of superstitious negativity. And it's your right to have that opinion as an individual and we're all here to talk Nets hoops and it's good to have a dissenting voice of reason, but you're hitting Rain Man levels here with your Uzi-like rate-of-fire repeating of said opinion lol.

The Warriors were once a laughing stock. The Clippers as well. The Nets too, yet even in the Swamp, even with a notorious cheapskate in Ratner with ulterior motives, we still had a contender for 4 years and a strong playoff team for a few years after, with 2 of the biggest names in professional basketball at the time on the roster, who both re-signed. We then had a horribly built, but big name team in Brooklyn. With a GM who destroyed a 5 to 7 year window of future basketball for the fans with a comic series of horrid trades. But we're climbing back out. Through these times we've had guys lobby to come here who were marque players at the time. D12. Garnett in the past before he was shipped to Boston. Michael Redd for a very brief period before his knee injury. And these were all in less relevant times, in even murkier transition periods. The buzz now is players are spreading the good word. Things have changed.

But back to other teams and turnarounds. How about the Kings? They're like the opposite. Went from a laughing stock, to a contender with ownership and management change, who made a series of savvy moves to form one of the most entertaining teams in the league for a long period, who were legitimately robbed of a trip to the Finals in one of the biggest rig jobs in American professional sports. Then the Maloofs sold and they're back to ****.

The Hawks were a big success back in the day, then mired in mediocrity, then became an extended success story and during that period attracted many young star free agents, starting with Joe Johnson wanting to leave an on the rise Phoenix to lead there when they were at their worst.

Memphis was a place players avoided like the plague and then formed a place players wanted to be, a real contender for a few years, with nearly a decade of strong playoff ball.

The Mavs were looked at like b-ball Siberia for the longest, but now they've been one of the more respected franchises and free agent and forced trade destinations with immense success for a decade and a half.

San An used to be the golden rule, now you have MVP level players and stars trying to force their way out.



The point is, the NBA is often fluid and cyclical. There are a handful of certain teams who always seem to have the upper hand, but there is always opportunity when you have a big market, a wealthy owner willing to spend, a wide open conference and management and coaching who get it.


You're too hung up on wins, on free agents wanting to join "playoff teams". The Warriors are the outlier in the free agent sense. They were the already best team in the league juggernaut, who caught the bitch-made superstar at his moment of weakness, who strategically kept open the cap just for all this to come together as a the perfect storm.



The other stars who forced trades, or joined forces, they did so for the aforementioned from the paragraph 2 above.

LeBron and Bosh joined Miami because they wanted to form Voltron with Wade and the #2 overall pick. Not because the Heat had just won 40 something games.

Harden wanted a place like Houston because he wanted his own team, with smart management, a big market, an owner who spends, a war chest of assets to add pieces around him, etc. Not because Houston was a perennial treadmill.

Kawhi wanted LAL because that's where he's from, because of the market, because his uncle is a douche and he's an autistic weirdo who follows him like a 14 year old kid puppy with a wet nose and because they'll draw other players. Not because they've been winning so much.

Dwight wanted BK because of market, because of teaming with Deron and JJ. Because of opportunity. Not because they were a first round exit.

Kyrie wanted NYC and San An before he was shipped to Boston because he wanted his own team, a big market, spendy owners and the ability to team up with another great player who he views as a shade less great than himself. Not because the Knix are a constant lotto ball magnet, or because San An has such great Mexican food.

LeBron, the greatest player on the flat face of this planet Earth, wanted the Lakers. Not because they've been a 40 something win runaway train year after year. But because great players want to team up with another great player from a very short specific list of their mutual choosing, in a huge market. Not because he sees so much in Lonzo Ball or Hart...

If it were all about winning, most of these players wouldn't even want to leave the situations they are in! Why would Kyrie ever dream of leaving Boston? Kawhi the Spurs? Why wouldn't LeBron have went somewhere like Philly? Found a way to force his way to Houston? Found a route to the Pelicans?



Will we land 2 superstar free agents next summer? Not likely. But I'm not going to be so insanely dismissive as you due to preconceived notions and superstitious sports witch craft. And I'll be fine if they strikeout, use the cap to acquire picks and suck one last year yet again. But this team has a lot going for it as a destination next summer, it really does. There's a reason to be cautiously optimistic. Relax, live life a little, be a fan first and be critical second. Maybe it will all be wonderful. Maybe we'll crash and burn as we've been traumatized to expect as of late. :lol:



**** it though, maybe I am just a:

Image

So be it! :party:


this post deserves a pulitzer
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: Sean Marks: “We have a year to prepare for summer of 2019” 

Post#80 » by Prokorov » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:43 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
yeah. what most likely happens is Leonard hops on the team bus after they smack the **** out of us while being cheered on by the Barclays center crowd and heads out.

See, you get yourself all hyped up over this and then when Marks fails to deliver you're going to be the first to dump on him because he couldn't sign Leonard. Watch.


who is "hyped up" all im saying is the nets are a legitimate destination and probably in the top 3 or 5 teams these stars consider next summer. and i wont kill marks for missing on those guys if he does.

the only thing id kill marks for is missing and then using that money on scrubby 3rd tier stars instead of staying the course with a slow rebuild.

Kyrie, Kawhi, Klay, Butler.... those are guys you pivot for. otherwise, keep rebuilding via draft and stockpiling assets, reset sights on the davis/giannis summer.

but dont spend 60 million in cap on tobias harris, kemba walker, and vucevic


I disagree. we aren't a legitimate destination. not yet. we need to keep building this talent base up first.

and I'm with you. Not if, but WHEN Marks misses on these guys i would prefer that he not spend money on 3rd tier players. maintain flexibility and stay the course.


Agree to disagree. i think the exsisting talent is completely irrelevant (unless you have a star). it doesnt matter how good or bad levert/RHJ/Allen are or if they improve. stars want to play with stars. us improving to a 45 win team would not move the needle much or at all.

What moves the needle is stars knowing we can put 2 other stars next to them, 1 with cap room alone and another via trade.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017

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