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Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II

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AndySF
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#461 » by AndySF » Wed Oct 9, 2019 6:32 pm

LordCovington33 wrote:
AndySF wrote:I feel that the whole situation is a lot more complex than most people believed. There are real discontent amongst young people in Hong Kong for various reasons, and a real concern of the approaching 50 yrs. But it was also lack of trust by the central government due to various reasons.
According to the basic law, Hong Kong will eventually have universal suffrage. It also mandates the pass of sedition and separatist law (23rd amendment, I believe it was call). The Hong Kong government try to enact such law multiple times and failed because of resistance from public. Hong Kong government also try to add patriotic curriculum into education in 2012, but fail due to public resistance. The Chinese government therefore have concerns of separatist influence from aboard (western, Taiwan and so on), and had not allowed for further progress on democracy(it is in the Basic law that any political change will require the enactment of central government legislative body). The 2014 protest for universal suffrage was the result of that(which was for most part peaceful). The 2014 protest also started a number of groups that are independent leaning. The distrust is deep on both sides.

When it comes to separatist movement, it's a national issue that have wide support from Chinese regardless of how they feel towards ccp. Centuries of bullying by other countries had made Chinese people react negatively to any outside influence that deemed bad intentions.

One aspect that most outsiders overlook is the ever changing dynamic between China and Hong Kong. Hong Kong prospered from the 1980s to early 2000s due to their unique status as the sole gateway between China and the rest of the world and the economic growth of China. It was by and large a non political city. Democracy was never a subject or have much significance in those days because those generation never experienced democracy during British rule. The legislative body as well as executive was appointed by the British government and there was no election prior to China demands for the return of the territory. Only during the last appointed executive to Hong Kong had the held election of the legislative branch. Hong Kong was a pure free market with minimal fuzz in politics.

But as mainland city like Shanghai, Shenzhen and Guangzhou open to the world, the significance of Hong Kong gradually eroded. After the 2007 financial crisis, it's economy was in trouble. They no longer have manufacturing jobs, and they lose a lot of import export to other cities in China. It was the Chinese government that encouraged private citizens visiting Hong Kong and holds back some of the other cities in the Zhujiang delta that propped up their economy. That also created a lot of resentment towards mainlander (I don't blame them for feeling that way as as some of the mainlander are poorly educated and lacks common courtesy) as they are seen everywhere in Hong Kong on any given day. That's the beginning of the current movement that is now demanding full democracy.

Hong Kongers had also felt superior to mainlanders. It was so 30, 40 years ago when China was extremely poor. It is today. The diminishing superiority (Shenzhen gdp for the first time equals or surpassed Hong Kong this year) due to the emerging of other Chinese cities and gradually became less relevant had incited resentment even more.

Hong Kong's recent violent protests (by the minority extremists groups) had actually helped the ccp a great deal. It helped them to secured an united front. The sentiment toward pro democracy Hong Kongers had now shifted to the ccp's liking and lessening their concerns Domestically on their citizen's advocating freedoms. It is a loose loose situation for all. Bad for Hong Kong economy, bad for Hong Kong working class, bad for Hong Kong future freedom (ccp will not yield an inch from this point forward in my opinion, to much at stake and bad example for Taiwan and Tibet and Xinjiang), bad for influencing mainland towards freer society as Hong Kong is no longer held in high regard by most Chinese citizens. The line is crossed when you attack civilians and vent your anger on public infrastructure and the police force (which had shown tremendous restraint when compared to other police forces, US and French to name a few. Search up French yellow jackets protest casualties if you like) targeting police officers family because they are simply doing their job.

This small group of extremists had in fact killed the original peaceful movement. As my relatives in Hong Kong told me, many Hong Kong people are changing their opinion on this protest. Many of the working class are losing their income and find it hard to support their family and that is the intention of this small group. They openly stated they would be destroy Hong Kong's economy to get what they wanted. I cannot support such selfish people. It's only freedom when everyone have a right to it and you don't encroach on the right of the others. Whatever the ccp do or did, however awful they may be, do not justify your cowardice actions.

Last point, Joe Tsai Express his views and should be allowed just as Morey's view should be allowed without bullying. Debate the opinion, not character assassination. Fully supported the last statement from Silvers as well, we are a free country even if there people in this country trying to take that away from us.

Feel free to attack for those who wants to, this is a free country I fought for after all.


Disclaimer: I am not Chinese, but have lived in HK for a total of 12 years. My bestfriend is Chinese. My wife is Chinese.

Hong Kong people, including a sister-in-law, have been terribly affected by this. My sister-in-law is the main breadwinner because her husband (my wife’s brother) is very ill. She works in a restaurant and has seen her hours drop. She has had to borrow money from us to make ends meet. There are many stories like this.

My bestfriend lives in a village in the New Territories. He has been approached on multiple occasions to join the movement by no-good Triad types. He has been presented with a list of acts that he could participate in and how much he could make from. He said it resembled a wine list. The more daring, the more money he could stand to make. He has declined because he is a teacher for a government school.

My wife is also a teacher. Several of her students have participated in marches, some getting paid HKD200 or more. One of her students got HKD1500 to be at the front of the march and shout slogans at the police. He got arrested and is now in a world of poo. They believe in the cause but getting money certainly made the decision easier to join.

Anyway, I have seen videos about the police joining the marchers. Beyond that, I don’t know. Are they creating trouble as rioters, or they embedding themselves with these groups to find out who is running them?


Thanks for the information. I had read stories of payments towards some protesters but didn't want to bring that up as that could be ccp propaganda. I know billionaire is bankrolling supply and some funding for the movement but I am not sure if paid protesters is true or not.

It's hard for outsiders to feel the pain that the common non political Hong Kongers are feeling. Because they never have to face the reality of not able to provide for their family. Unlike here, welfare systems isn't going to take care of them, especially in short order.

It is why I always have disdain for politicians. They are either corrupted, lying or egoistic jerks who want to ram their ideals down other people's throats because they are supposed to know what's best for everyone else. They are no different from the ccp they despise. Flip side of the coin and just better at hiding it. To me, the world isn't black and white. It's a million shades of grey and other colors. As much as people hated dictatorships, the differences between Singapore and Saudi Arabia is tremendous. Yet, we as a country defended Saudi. Hard for me to buy the argument that Saudi is some how more free than China. It was always what benefits us that determine how we deal with any country. It was never any issue whe cheap labor producing consumer products by polluting their environment to support our appetite for material pleasure until now. I take any politicians word with an ocean of salt.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#462 » by gigantes » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:48 pm

AndySF wrote:It's hard for outsiders to feel the pain that the common non political Hong Kongers are feeling. Because they never have to face the reality of not able to provide for their family. Unlike here, welfare systems isn't going to take care of them, especially in short order.

Hah. People all across the world are feeling the direct pain of 'just trying to go about their business.' I.e., HK is not some magical case in that regard. (Just look at what we're dealing with, right here in the USA)

But at least in HK, there's a real point behind the locals putting up with the inconvenience of all that.

Back where I'm from, a person could get erased overnight for going against the particular Trump-du-jour.

Regardless, if local peoples were marching against Trump, and they were being abused like the HK protesters have been, I certainly know where my allegiances and sympathies would lie.

"Pain and inconvenience?" Don't make me laugh, matey. The very battle-cry of the CCP and its army of China-sycophants is veritably: "They hurt our feelings! Now they must pay!"

Change my mind, please.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#463 » by AndySF » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:39 pm

gigantes wrote:
AndySF wrote:It's hard for outsiders to feel the pain that the common non political Hong Kongers are feeling. Because they never have to face the reality of not able to provide for their family. Unlike here, welfare systems isn't going to take care of them, especially in short order.

Hah. People all across the world are feeling the direct pain of 'just trying to go about their business.' I.e., HK is not some magical case in that regard. (Just look at what we're dealing with, right here in the USA)

But at least in HK, there's a real point behind the locals putting up with the inconvenience of all that.

Back where I'm from, a person could get erased overnight for going against the particular Trump-du-jour.

Regardless, if local peoples were marching against Trump, and they were being abused like the HK protesters have been, I certainly know where my allegiances and sympathies would lie.

"Pain and inconvenience?" Don't make me laugh, matey. The very battle-cry of the CCP and its army of China-sycophants is veritably: "They hurt our feelings! Now they must pay!"

Change my mind, please.


I see that you had deleted your post last night that got me a party membership. I think I know even more about you now. Enjoy your chamber. Out.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#464 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:57 pm

Read on Twitter


Very sad news to hear, he fought the good fight til the end. Rest well.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#465 » by gigantes » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:25 pm

AndySF wrote:I see that you had deleted your post last night that got me a party membership. I think I know even more about you now. Enjoy your chamber. Out.

No idea what you're on about there, but I felt like I was being to harsh and borderline classless with that deleted post the other day. My apologies.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#466 » by gigantes » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:30 pm

This was just too incredibly, amazingly delicious--

https://v.redd.it/6vjtl3i7p8v31/DASH_1080?source=fallback
(full post here if that video doesn't work)

That was Trump at the Nationals' baseball game the other day. It starts with him hearing the residual cheering for the military folks shown on the Jumbotron. Then his group gets displayed up there, and the boos start raining down...
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#467 » by Rich Rane » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:13 pm

gigantes wrote:This was just too incredibly, amazingly delicious--

https://v.redd.it/6vjtl3i7p8v31/DASH_1080?source=fallback
(full post here if that video doesn't work)

That was Trump at the Nationals' baseball game the other day. It starts with him hearing the residual cheering for the military folks shown on the Jumbotron. Then his group gets displayed up there, and the boos start raining down...


Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


Congratulations to the Nationals, by the way. That was no easy feat.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#468 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:49 pm

Why are political propaganda ads being played at an MLB park?

And God bless those Nats fans. That moment will haunt Trump for the rest of his life.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#469 » by Rich Rane » Wed Nov 6, 2019 1:40 am

Read on Twitter





Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#470 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Nov 6, 2019 2:47 am

Rich Rane wrote:
Read on Twitter





Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


Mitch McConnell is somewhere quietly crapping his pants.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#471 » by Rich Rane » Thu Dec 5, 2019 2:34 pm

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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#472 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Dec 5, 2019 5:52 pm

Rich Rane wrote:
Read on Twitter


Nancy went off today :lol: about damn time.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#473 » by Prokorov » Thu Dec 5, 2019 8:07 pm

All of this is irrelevant. The facts don't matter. Which is really sad because there are so many major issues and if we had a real political system with our vast resources we could solve so many of the country and worlds issues...

Congress was going to 100% impeach trump whether he 100% did nothing wrong or he had a currupt phone call on live TV and then Shot someone in the face on the white house lawn. these hearings dont matter. it was a foregone conclusion he was going to be impeached regardless of facts

likewise, the senate is 100% not going to convict trump... trump could come out on live TV and say he is a russian spy who killed Americans and kicked puppies and the senate wont convict.

the hearings are just a show, to help try and get someone besides trump elected in 2020. but that likely wont happen, because racists and bigots love trump and this country loves it some racist bigotry and keeping white rich dudes empowered.

The fact that an ignorant, racist, naraccasitic, woman abusing, adulterer, dickwad like trump was even in the running for president shows what a horrific place this country is in.

it is so broken that nothing we can do will change it without a complete revamp of the system, starting with ditching the electoral college, make it mandatory by law that all americans vote (like most countries) and make election day a national holiday emloyers cant force employees to work on. then we get something closer to the real voice of the people.... get rid of superpacs, lobbyists etc...

maybe someday our government will look more like canada...where the secretary of science is a scientist, and the secretary of education is a professor.... and its more then just white people and men...

instead of the head of energy being the head of exxon mobil... or betsy davos... good lord.

this country sucks so bad right now
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#474 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Dec 5, 2019 9:33 pm

Prokorov wrote:All of this is irrelevant. The facts don't matter. Which is really sad because there are so many major issues and if we had a real political system with our vast resources we could solve so many of the country and worlds issues...

Congress was going to 100% impeach trump whether he 100% did nothing wrong or he had a currupt phone call on live TV and then Shot someone in the face on the white house lawn. these hearings dont matter. it was a foregone conclusion he was going to be impeached regardless of facts

likewise, the senate is 100% not going to convict trump... trump could come out on live TV and say he is a russian spy who killed Americans and kicked puppies and the senate wont convict.

the hearings are just a show, to help try and get someone besides trump elected in 2020. but that likely wont happen, because racists and bigots love trump and this country loves it some racist bigotry and keeping white rich dudes empowered.

The fact that an ignorant, racist, naraccasitic, woman abusing, adulterer, dickwad like trump was even in the running for president shows what a horrific place this country is in.

it is so broken that nothing we can do will change it without a complete revamp of the system, starting with ditching the electoral college, make it mandatory by law that all americans vote (like most countries) and make election day a national holiday emloyers cant force employees to work on. then we get something closer to the real voice of the people.... get rid of superpacs, lobbyists etc...

maybe someday our government will look more like canada...where the secretary of science is a scientist, and the secretary of education is a professor.... and its more then just white people and men...

instead of the head of energy being the head of exxon mobil... or betsy davos... good lord.

this country sucks so bad right now


Can't argue this, but I will say I don't think that the House Dems were going to roll with impeachment until Trump basically got caught red handed extorting Ukraine. After that point they had to impeach, regardless of what the Senate will do.

I share the same anger that you do man. I hope everyone gets out and votes a year from now and hopefully we can get some of the big money out but I doubt it, especially if Biden wins the nomination which will kill voter turn out.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#475 » by gigantes » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:38 pm

Prokorov wrote:this country sucks so bad right now

A lot of casuals and other types still don't understand this, or refuse to see it, or can't be bothered, and that might be the most f'd-up stuff of all. Like... chilling, and nauseating, both.

So this hefty bloc of people can't see just how bad it's gotten, and just how much the extremist right-wingers and ultra wealthy are wedging open the door towards societal collapse, mostly for the purposes of short-term greed and fear of change, and all of that stuff pretty much happening in plain sight if only one dares to recognise facts & reality.

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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#476 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Nov 7, 2020 7:18 pm

F*ck a Trump.
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Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
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Re: Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II 

Post#477 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Nov 8, 2020 1:33 am

BE GONE, THOT
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