GT: Jazz vs Nets - Wednesday, 11/28/18, 7:30pm

[babyjax13]

Just a horrendous game all around by everyone except Dinwiddie really. Jazz defense definitely played better today than they've been advertised so far this season, but their offense was still horrendous until Mitchell took over in the late fourth.

It's hard to really evaluate coaches when "star" talent is out and the roster is flawed, but Atkinson deserves to starting getting criticism at some point. Stop running all-bench lineup. Stagger the damn starters more. All bench line ups don't work for the most part. And again, the Nets suck in clutch moments ATO. Feels like every clutch movement they have after a timeout, they turn the ball over. How is that even possible?

The Nets need to put the older players on the roster in a retirement home. Trade Carroll, stop playing Dudley (or the other way around). They're doing nothing to justify they're playing time besides being veterans. The team clearly sucks without LeVert, so just go all in on the young talent. Play Kurucs and Musa to see what you have, because this team clearly isn't going to win games with the way their playing right now. If they lose the next few games at home and on the road, they should rev up the tank engine.

I've been watching Nets games when there aren't Jazz games on b/c your offense is just beautiful to watch - even if a lot of the players suck. Atkinson is one of the best coaches in the league.

I think the offense is fine and it's perfect for today's NBA. The team is just lacking in star talent to really make it work, but they're 11 in offensive rating, which is pretty impressive for a team without a star. But there's just minor things he does or doesn't do that irritates me. ATO offense sucks (especially in clutch situations), weird rotations in close games, and all bench lineups don't work unless you're certain teams (Last year's boston/raptors team, Dallas this year).

I'd definitely expect you to know more about small things like that, but it would be really hard to get someone better. Some of those things sound like personnel problems, though.

[MrDollarBills]

You say that like it’s a bad thing lol

That’s a good off-season for everybody else across the league. I love Zion but I think he elevates us as a destination and media attention but I’m not convinced he’s the best talent to become an immediate contributor. He’s going to be closer to Simmons/Randle in the NBA more times than not as a rookie.

I think Zion is a flat out stud and a day 1 starter on any NBA roster. Watching him play, he's one of those dudes who has no business even bothering with college basketball. I think he'd be an immediate contributor on this team. Can you imagine having him, Kurucs, and Allen along with LeVert? I sign up right now for that.

Either way, I'll definitely take Langford or Doumbouya.

I know. I want him too but I’m cool with our initial theory of Reddish/LeVert or Little/LeVert if we don’t.

We’re going to rapidly fall into 4th or 5th on this December upcoming schedule. Memphis, @Washington, OKC, Toronto, @Philly, Washington, ATL, LAL.

Only true ‘winnable’ games are Cavs, Knicks, Hawks in December but we can easily lose those in a close game or get owned by Kanter per usual.

Besides, in the last two to three drafts the magic number has been the 3rd pick.

Watch on YouTube

I think Sekou Doumboya is going to be the Doncic of this draft. He’s by far the best French prospect since Gobert. He’ll murder the combine and the hype will truly begin there.

Watch on YouTube

I don't think we'll get high enough to get Reddish. Doumbouya for sure.

Is Nassir Little even starting on UNC? I dunno about him.

[MrDollarBills]

Just a horrendous game all around by everyone except Dinwiddie really. Jazz defense definitely played better today than they've been advertised so far this season, but their offense was still horrendous until Mitchell took over in the late fourth.

It's hard to really evaluate coaches when "star" talent is out and the roster is flawed, but Atkinson deserves to starting getting criticism at some point. Stop running all-bench lineup. Stagger the damn starters more. All bench line ups don't work for the most part. And again, the Nets suck in clutch moments ATO. Feels like every clutch movement they have after a timeout, they turn the ball over. How is that even possible?

The Nets need to put the older players on the roster in a retirement home. Trade Carroll, stop playing Dudley (or the other way around). They're doing nothing to justify they're playing time besides being veterans. The team clearly sucks without LeVert, so just go all in on the young talent. Play Kurucs and Musa to see what you have, because this team clearly isn't going to win games with the way their playing right now. If they lose the next few games at home and on the road, they should rev up the tank engine.

I think Ed Davis and Napier are fine and they should play. Carroll's peak was last season. Dudley is done.

It's time to play Kurucs. If the Nets want to bring Musa along a bit slower fine, but Kurucs has shown that he can play, at least before he gets put onto the opposing scouting reports.

Crabbe at this point is a failed experiment. He's terrible and the Nets may have to really consider either convincing him to opt out and sign for less for more years or even stretching him. that 18 million dollars next season is a no go on the cap.

Out of the three young free agents upcoming, Dinwiddie is the only one making a case to be retained on a decent contact. Russell can't have nights like this and then expect to be paid. RHJ probably isn't going to get more than MLE level money since he hasn't improved his range.

Calm with RHJ bro

where is the lie in my statement fam? i'm his biggest supporter on here to the point where people have insulted me over it. i'm just being honest, right now RHJ does not look like a player that will get more than 8 mil per at least.

[CalamityX12]

13 pts? Lol

[MrDollarBills]

Just a horrendous game all around by everyone except Dinwiddie really. Jazz defense definitely played better today than they've been advertised so far this season, but their offense was still horrendous until Mitchell took over in the late fourth.

It's hard to really evaluate coaches when "star" talent is out and the roster is flawed, but Atkinson deserves to starting getting criticism at some point. Stop running all-bench lineup. Stagger the damn starters more. All bench line ups don't work for the most part. And again, the Nets suck in clutch moments ATO. Feels like every clutch movement they have after a timeout, they turn the ball over. How is that even possible?

The Nets need to put the older players on the roster in a retirement home. Trade Carroll, stop playing Dudley (or the other way around). They're doing nothing to justify they're playing time besides being veterans. The team clearly sucks without LeVert, so just go all in on the young talent. Play Kurucs and Musa to see what you have, because this team clearly isn't going to win games with the way their playing right now. If they lose the next few games at home and on the road, they should rev up the tank engine.

I think Ed Davis and Napier are fine and they should play. Carroll's peak was last season. Dudley is done.

It's time to play Kurucs. If the Nets want to bring Musa along a bit slower fine, but Kurucs has shown that he can play, at least before he gets put onto the opposing scouting reports.

Crabbe at this point is a failed experiment. He's terrible and the Nets may have to really consider either convincing him to opt out and sign for less for more years or even stretching him. that 18 million dollars next season is a no go on the cap.

Out of the three young free agents upcoming, Dinwiddie is the only one making a case to be retained on a decent contact. Russell can't have nights like this and then expect to be paid. RHJ probably isn't going to get more than MLE level money since he hasn't improved his range.

I'm fine with Davis continuing to play. Napier too, but if they decided to cut Napier's minutes to play Musa, I wouldn't mind it.

Crabbe is just a sunken cost at this point. There's no way he's going to opt out of the contract next season, regardless of what the Nets say to him. You don't just opt out of 18M.

I agree on Dinwiddie being the only one that is making a case to be retained. The team has a better netrating when he's out there compared to D'Lo. However, I don't think RHJ will get close to the MLE. I've said it before, but the same issues that existed when he was a rookie still exist four years later. Can't shoot, can't dribble when he's being pressured and stumbles all over the place at times, can't play him at SF cause lack of shooting, and it's hard to play him at the four with a non-shooting big. He may be the only positive defender the Nets have, but he's not an elite defender, just a good one. A non-shooting wing who can't shoot, can't finish at the rim at an above average percentage, and isn't an elite defender isn't worth the MLE or slightly above it. The Nets are going to hardball him cause he doesn't fit in today's NBA, but that's just my opinion.

I think there is a discernible difference between Rondae in 2018 and rookie Rondae who **** his pants every time he got passed the ball. Rondae slashes, rebounds, and has a mid range J. He is totally different from the guy he was in his rookie year.

His problems now are the fact that he hasn't improved his range and he is making dumb mistakes at inopportune times with the ball. He has also been missing FTs, something that he was not doing last year.

I think his defense overall is good, he is very disruptive. However, is he a shut down defender? not at this point.

however, saying that a guy who averaged 14/7 last season and has finally worked his way back into the starting line up isn't an NBA player is a bit much to me. I can't sit here, watch Jared Dudley get PT on this team and then look at RHJ and say that he doesn't deserve time.

[SpeedyG]

Rondae is basically who he is: an energy hustle garbage man guy. There's room for him in an NBA roster. Shoot I wouldn't mind him in our 2nd unit (with the right players around him), but it's looking more and more like last season was an outlier for him.

He's a catch-and-go player. Expecting him to do more than that in traffic is just asking for trouble.

I'm not sure I pay him more than I've paid Joe on his deal last season.

The problem, as we've seen the past couple of games now with Rondae moving up to start, is that now Kenny plays DMC and Dudley in the same 2nd unit lineup.

Barf.

When the other players are Napier and Davis, it really doesn't do much offensively and it becomes Spencer hero ball. We were fortunate Spencer got it going last night, or that lineup would have given up the lead sooner.

Dlo...see pivoting back to his monster game. Very similar shots he took tonight vs. Philly. But shots didn't drop for him vs jazz.

He took 25 shots last night and didn't go to the line ONCE.

Inexcusable as a lead scorer.

But hey, keep tanking the tank.

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[MrDollarBills]

Rondae is basically who he is: an energy hustle garbage man guy. There's room for him in an NBA roster. Shoot I wouldn't mind him in our 2nd unit (with the right players around him), but it's looking more and more like last season was an outlier for him.

He's a catch-and-go player. Expecting him to do more than that in traffic is just asking for trouble.

I'm not sure I pay him more than I've paid Joe on his deal last season.

The problem, as we've seen the past couple of games now with Rondae moving up to start, is that now Kenny plays DMC and Dudley in the same 2nd unit lineup.

Barf.

When the other players are Napier and Davis, it really doesn't do much offensively and it becomes Spencer hero ball. We were fortunate Spencer got it going last night, or that lineup would have given up the lead sooner.

Dlo...see pivoting back to his monster game. Very similar shots he took tonight vs. Philly. But shots didn't drop for him vs jazz.

He took 25 shots last night and didn't go to the line ONCE.

Inexcusable as a lead scorer.

But hey, keep tanking the tank.

Sent from my SM-G925T using RealGM mobile app

I don't think last year was an outlier, small sample size but in 3 games as a starter he's averaging 14ppg 8rpg 2apg on 56% TS. That's pretty much in line with his work from last season, but his FT shooting has gone into the crapper and I don't understand why.

It's disappointing that he really hasn't improved his range and tightened up his halfcourt ball handling tbh. Maybe it was the injury that derailed him, maybe this is just who he is.

[SpeedyG]

Rondae is basically who he is: an energy hustle garbage man guy. There's room for him in an NBA roster. Shoot I wouldn't mind him in our 2nd unit (with the right players around him), but it's looking more and more like last season was an outlier for him.

He's a catch-and-go player. Expecting him to do more than that in traffic is just asking for trouble.

I'm not sure I pay him more than I've paid Joe on his deal last season.

The problem, as we've seen the past couple of games now with Rondae moving up to start, is that now Kenny plays DMC and Dudley in the same 2nd unit lineup.

Barf.

When the other players are Napier and Davis, it really doesn't do much offensively and it becomes Spencer hero ball. We were fortunate Spencer got it going last night, or that lineup would have given up the lead sooner.

Dlo...see pivoting back to his monster game. Very similar shots he took tonight vs. Philly. But shots didn't drop for him vs jazz.

He took 25 shots last night and didn't go to the line ONCE.

Inexcusable as a lead scorer.

But hey, keep tanking the tank.

Sent from my SM-G925T using RealGM mobile app

I don't think last year was an outlier, small sample size but in 3 games as a starter he's averaging 14ppg 8rpg 2apg on 56% TS. That's pretty much in line with his work from last season, but his FT shooting has gone into the crapper and I don't understand why.

It's disappointing that he really hasn't improved his range and tightened up his halfcourt ball handling tbh. Maybe it was the injury that derailed him, maybe this is just who he is.

The entire team seems to have taken a step back in FT.

I do see Rondae's confidence improving game by game, so maybe his play improves (the mid range seems to be slowly coming back)

But the three looks awful (as always) and he still can't dribble through traffic. That severely limits his potential.

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[shakendfries]

I think Zion is a flat out stud and a day 1 starter on any NBA roster. Watching him play, he's one of those dudes who has no business even bothering with college basketball. I think he'd be an immediate contributor on this team. Can you imagine having him, Kurucs, and Allen along with LeVert? I sign up right now for that.

Either way, I'll definitely take Langford or Doumbouya.

I know. I want him too but I’m cool with our initial theory of Reddish/LeVert or Little/LeVert if we don’t.

We’re going to rapidly fall into 4th or 5th on this December upcoming schedule. Memphis, @Washington, OKC, Toronto, @Philly, Washington, ATL, LAL.

Only true ‘winnable’ games are Cavs, Knicks, Hawks in December but we can easily lose those in a close game or get owned by Kanter per usual.

Besides, in the last two to three drafts the magic number has been the 3rd pick.

Watch on YouTube

I think Sekou Doumboya is going to be the Doncic of this draft. He’s by far the best French prospect since Gobert. He’ll murder the combine and the hype will truly begin there.

Watch on YouTube

I don't think we'll get high enough to get Reddish. Doumbouya for sure.

Is Nassir Little even starting on UNC? I dunno about him.

I'm happy with Sekou who might have the chops to develop into a lockdown defender at the 3, or Reddish who's got a legitimate offensive bag (playing with the same staff that developed Tatum), but Bol Bol is the one player to me that 5 years from now could be un-guard-able as a stretch 4 in Kenny's system.

Watch on YouTube

[Claud]

Not surprised. Looks like losing so many close games where we were leading earlier in the game is starting to get to these guys.

We battled them for 3 quarters up 8 going to 4th but that last quarter was one of the worst quarters I've ever seen.

Glad to see RHJ slowly get back last year's form but if he wanted to get PAID he needed to IMPROVE from last season.
Has not happened yet. We are just hoping he gets back to his old self at this point.

Our bench was booty. Ed Davis missed a bunch of bunnies, DMC looks washed, Dudley is dudley, Napier has 1 good game every 5.
Dinwiddie went nova in the 3rd which is what gave us the lead going into the 4th. He went out and the lead evaporated quickly with Russ/Napier backcourt. Zero defense is a major problem for Russ/Napier.

Dlo did not take bad shots IMO but they just did not go down. This is the reason why he might a flawed player... only way he can impact the game is IF he is hitting his shots at a good clip on a particular night. I still feel you can't keep both Russ and Din but we'll see.

Maybe Crabbe also has the yips... dude made like 5 mistakes in a row during one sequence.
I hope he starts hitting those 3s at a higher clip and maybe we can get rid of him at the deadline.

We were in similar situations during the last few years only our picks were going to Boston or Cleveland, etc..
At least this year we can look forward to minimum a top 10 pick with Marks at the helm.

[Prokorov]

Take this tape and throw it in the trash. The Nets just did not have it as a team offensively.

Russell cannot have 6-25, 4 TO performances. I thought he did some good things out there (7 asts, 3 stls) despite the poor shooting but the team is relying on him to come through. The inconsistency has got to go.

We need a stretch 4 for our gaurds and ball handlers to play at their best. I love RHJ but he just isnt a fit. if dudley sint that guy or kurucs isnt ready then we draft/sign/trade for somebody. but its clear this offense doesnt work with RHJ on the floor.

that isnt why we lost... they are a better team, flat out.

[Prokorov]

Just a horrendous game all around by everyone except Dinwiddie really. Jazz defense definitely played better today than they've been advertised so far this season, but their offense was still horrendous until Mitchell took over in the late fourth.

It's hard to really evaluate coaches when "star" talent is out and the roster is flawed, but Atkinson deserves to starting getting criticism at some point. Stop running all-bench lineup. Stagger the damn starters more. All bench line ups don't work for the most part. And again, the Nets suck in clutch moments ATO. Feels like every clutch movement they have after a timeout, they turn the ball over. How is that even possible?

The Nets need to put the older players on the roster in a retirement home. Trade Carroll, stop playing Dudley (or the other way around). They're doing nothing to justify they're playing time besides being veterans. The team clearly sucks without LeVert, so just go all in on the young talent. Play Kurucs and Musa to see what you have, because this team clearly isn't going to win games with the way their playing right now. If they lose the next few games at home and on the road, they should rev up the tank engine.

I've been watching Nets games when there aren't Jazz games on b/c your offense is just beautiful to watch - even if a lot of the players suck. Atkinson is one of the best coaches in the league.

Agreed... despite this loss the nets are off to a fantastic start given our talent + our insane schedule (both opponents and so many back to backs already). One of if not our best player is out on a team that is like 99% role and bench players yet we are still 8-14 and in basically every game with huge improvement from Dinwiddie, russell, allen, levert, and harris.

Too many homers here who think we should be some good team despite bottom 5 type talent.

Atkinson isnt quite turning water into wine...but its close like turning spoiled milk into grape juice or something.

[Prokorov]

Just a horrendous game all around by everyone except Dinwiddie really. Jazz defense definitely played better today than they've been advertised so far this season, but their offense was still horrendous until Mitchell took over in the late fourth.

It's hard to really evaluate coaches when "star" talent is out and the roster is flawed, but Atkinson deserves to starting getting criticism at some point. Stop running all-bench lineup. Stagger the damn starters more. All bench line ups don't work for the most part. And again, the Nets suck in clutch moments ATO. Feels like every clutch movement they have after a timeout, they turn the ball over. How is that even possible?

The Nets need to put the older players on the roster in a retirement home. Trade Carroll, stop playing Dudley (or the other way around). They're doing nothing to justify they're playing time besides being veterans. The team clearly sucks without LeVert, so just go all in on the young talent. Play Kurucs and Musa to see what you have, because this team clearly isn't going to win games with the way their playing right now. If they lose the next few games at home and on the road, they should rev up the tank engine.

I've been watching Nets games when there aren't Jazz games on b/c your offense is just beautiful to watch - even if a lot of the players suck. Atkinson is one of the best coaches in the league.

I think the offense is fine and it's perfect for today's NBA. The team is just lacking in star talent to really make it work, but they're 11 in offensive rating, which is pretty impressive for a team without a star. But there's just minor things he does or doesn't do that irritates me. ATO offense sucks (especially in clutch situations), weird rotations in close games, and all bench lineups don't work unless you're certain teams (Last year's boston/raptors team, Dallas this year).

I dont get the problem with all bench lineups when you can argue everyone on our bench is as good or better then the guy who starts over them. sure if you have legit starting NBA talent 1-5 and some all-stars you dont want all bench lineups but...

How much worse is dinwiddie then russel? Crabbe then harris? Carroll then RHJ? Davis then Allen?

you could (easily) argue dinwiddie is the best player on the nets right now.

[Prokorov]

Dlo...see pivoting back to his monster game. Very similar shots he took tonight vs. Philly. But shots didn't drop for him vs jazz.

He took 25 shots last night and didn't go to the line ONCE.

Inexcusable as a lead scorer.

But hey, keep tanking the tank.

Sent from my SM-G925T using RealGM mobile app

this is simply inaccurate. his shot chart isnt close to the phlly game. he did shoot some floaters, but he didnt get to the rim anywhere near as much. he had 8-9 layups vs philly.

[SpeedyG]

Dlo...see pivoting back to his monster game. Very similar shots he took tonight vs. Philly. But shots didn't drop for him vs jazz.

He took 25 shots last night and didn't go to the line ONCE.

Inexcusable as a lead scorer.

But hey, keep tanking the tank.

Sent from my SM-G925T using RealGM mobile app

this is simply inaccurate. his shot chart isnt close to the phlly game. he did shoot some floaters, but he didnt get to the rim anywhere near as much. he had 8-9 layups vs philly.

www.espn.com/nba/?gameId=401070970

www.espn.com/nba/?gameId=401070989

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[3pt_chucker]

We had no answer for Gobert. He dominated Allen and Davis offensively and disrupted most of our drives. We needed to get him in more pnr action/switches. He controlled the paint on both ends which killed our flow from the start of the game.

We only looked decent when he was off the floor. Spencer went off when Gobert was off the floor but was quiet when he cam back in because Gobert was in the game again.

We just get dominated far to often by opposing big men. We are too small/play to small too often. Our roster is just not built to handle bigs who are really good right now. Especially since Kenny does not believe in 2 bigs and would rather go small ball 5 than match up(which has hilariously never worked but we always go to it.)

[MrDollarBills]

Take this tape and throw it in the trash. The Nets just did not have it as a team offensively.

Russell cannot have 6-25, 4 TO performances. I thought he did some good things out there (7 asts, 3 stls) despite the poor shooting but the team is relying on him to come through. The inconsistency has got to go.

We need a stretch 4 for our gaurds and ball handlers to play at their best. I love RHJ but he just isnt a fit. if dudley sint that guy or kurucs isnt ready then we draft/sign/trade for somebody. but its clear this offense doesnt work with RHJ on the floor.

that isnt why we lost... they are a better team, flat out.

That is some pretty shaky evidence....the offense looked just fine versus Philadelphia with Rondae out there. The difference is last night the team shot horribly across the board.

Rondae was not the reason why the starting backcourt combined to shoot 9-35 from the field. Jared Dudley's 30.8% 3PT efficiency or lack thereof would not have changed this. Russell couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and airballed at least two lay up attempts in a baffling fashion. Crabbe was throwing up some hard, amateurish bricks.

I'm not going to argue your point about the team and a stretch 4, I have been sitting here for the last few weeks screaming for Kenny to stop this nonsense and get Kurucs into the rotation....but to imply that Rondae is the reason for the offense not working last night is 100% false. Both teams were out there firing up bricks for the majority of the game before the Jazz got it clicking on their end, and it came down to Gobert outplaying Allen inside and Mitchell killing the Nets in the 4th.

Any time the Nets offense stalls out is because the team is shooting like trash. That is a common factor in each and every bad loss.

[MrDollarBills]

We had no answer for Gobert. He dominated Allen and Davis offensively and disrupted most of our drives. We needed to get him in more pnr action/switches. He controlled the paint on both and ends with killed our flow from the syart of the game.

We only looked decent when he was off the floor. Spencer went off when Gobert was off the floor but was quiet when he cam back in because Gobert was in the game again.

We just get dominated far to often by opposing big men. We are too small/play to small too often. Our roster is just not built to handle bigs who are really good right now. Especially since Kenny does not believe in 2 bigs and would rather go small ball 5 that match up(which has hilariously never worked but we always go to it.)

Gobert was tossing Russell's shot into the stands last night. Add that with him bricking nearly every 3 point and mid range shot we didn't stand a chance.

We were outclassed by a team whose talent blows ours out of the water. Can't win games when your lead guard forgets how to shoot following a game where he was unconscious from the field.

[MrDollarBills]

Dlo...see pivoting back to his monster game. Very similar shots he took tonight vs. Philly. But shots didn't drop for him vs jazz.

He took 25 shots last night and didn't go to the line ONCE.

Inexcusable as a lead scorer.

But hey, keep tanking the tank.

Sent from my SM-G925T using RealGM mobile app

this is simply inaccurate. his shot chart isnt close to the phlly game. he did shoot some floaters, but he didnt get to the rim anywhere near as much. he had 8-9 layups vs philly.

He couldn't because Golbert was waiting there to gun any lay up attempt right back in his face

[Prokorov]

Take this tape and throw it in the trash. The Nets just did not have it as a team offensively.

Russell cannot have 6-25, 4 TO performances. I thought he did some good things out there (7 asts, 3 stls) despite the poor shooting but the team is relying on him to come through. The inconsistency has got to go.

We need a stretch 4 for our gaurds and ball handlers to play at their best. I love RHJ but he just isnt a fit. if dudley sint that guy or kurucs isnt ready then we draft/sign/trade for somebody. but its clear this offense doesnt work with RHJ on the floor.

that isnt why we lost... they are a better team, flat out.

That is some pretty shaky evidence....the offense looked just fine versus Philadelphia with Rondae out there. The difference is last night the team shot horribly across the board.

Rondae was not the reason why the starting backcourt combined to shoot 9-35 from the field. Jared Dudley's 30.8% 3PT efficiency or lack thereof would not have changed this. Russell couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and airballed at least two lay up attempts in a baffling fashion. Crabbe was throwing up some hard, amateurish bricks.

I'm not going to argue your point about the team and a stretch 4, I have been sitting here for the last few weeks screaming for Kenny to stop this nonsense and get Kurucs into the rotation....but to imply that Rondae is the reason for the offense not working last night is 100% false. Both teams were out there firing up bricks for the majority of the game before the Jazz got it clicking on their end, and it came down to Gobert outplaying Allen inside and Mitchell killing the Nets in the 4th.

Any time the Nets offense stalls out is because the team is shooting like trash. That is a common factor in each and every bad loss.

Why is sitting kurucs nonsense? why should every young guy on this roster have to really earn their time but Kurucs have it gifted to him?