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Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread

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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#541 » by Netaman » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:58 pm

We may not have a traditional PF but we need another big - having to play Dudley at C/PF is obviously a big part of why we got steamrolled by Embid. You take the best players you can get out of what's available, but this roster absolutely needs a dynamic big who can score and defend in the worst way. Prince may be a step in the right direction but he's far from the answer.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#542 » by Papi_swav » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:07 pm

Netaman wrote:We may not have a traditional PF but we need another big - having to play Dudley at C/PF is obviously a big part of why we got steamrolled by Embid. You take the best players you can get out of what's available, but this roster absolutely needs a dynamic big who can score and defend in the worst way. Prince may be a step in the right direction but he's far from the answer.

lol I mean we're not asking Prince to guard centers now, I've made a list somewhere of bruiser centers we can grab to guard big guys like Embiid. It was a few days ago on one of these threads.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#543 » by Netaman » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:16 pm

Papi_swav wrote:
Netaman wrote:We may not have a traditional PF but we need another big - having to play Dudley at C/PF is obviously a big part of why we got steamrolled by Embid. You take the best players you can get out of what's available, but this roster absolutely needs a dynamic big who can score and defend in the worst way. Prince may be a step in the right direction but he's far from the answer.

lol I mean we're not asking Prince to guard centers now, I've made a list somewhere of bruiser centers we can grab to guard big guys like Embiid. It was a few days ago on one of these threads.


Sure but if you sign another bruiser like Ed Davis who can't do much on offense, it doesn't really help because that guy isn't gonna be on the floor much in crunch time. Other than the few obvious targets out there, there aren't that many guys who can do both.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#544 » by Kaiser30 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:37 pm

Prokorov wrote:they nets dont use a power forward. they dont believe it has a place in the modern NBA. they use 2 small forwards. price is a perfect fit

Can you please clarify what a "power forward" in your terms actually means in today's nba? After reading these discussions and your argument so often since the end of the season, I'd be very happy to get a clarification here.

An oldschool bruiser/rebounder/post player with limited shooting range? I guess it is (or at least should be) common sense that these players have only limited use in today's nba.

Your big small forward category should be clear, guys like Carroll, Kurucs and Prince.

But what about guys that are taller/heavier? Guys like Blake Griffin and John Collins? Both are definitely not considered as "big small forwards". Do you consider them to be a center under Kenny?

To an extreme, would KP strictly be a center in Brooklyn and in absolutely no way a fit at the 4 for at least 15 minutes of his 35 minutes per game?

Under Kenny, various players have started at the four. Prior to Kurucs and Dudley also guys like Booker and Scola. My biggest takeaway is, he first and foremost values shooting and spacing at the four. Last years version flat out had no taller players who were able to shoot the three at a decent level, so he relied on very small lineups. But I'm very unsure if this approach couldn't change next year if Kenny gets a bigger player/better rebounder who is also able to shoot from outside. Note that last years roster wasn't exactly build to fit Kenny's vision because roster spots were pretty scarce after the draft and due to the salary dumps. The option to go small will definitely remain a big part of his tactics, but I could also see Kenny going bigger for stretches. Or at least have a real stretch 5 again. I think as a coach, he will demand more tools to play with compared to last year.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#545 » by Papi_swav » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:26 am

Netaman wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:
Netaman wrote:We may not have a traditional PF but we need another big - having to play Dudley at C/PF is obviously a big part of why we got steamrolled by Embid. You take the best players you can get out of what's available, but this roster absolutely needs a dynamic big who can score and defend in the worst way. Prince may be a step in the right direction but he's far from the answer.

lol I mean we're not asking Prince to guard centers now, I've made a list somewhere of bruiser centers we can grab to guard big guys like Embiid. It was a few days ago on one of these threads.


Sure but if you sign another bruiser like Ed Davis who can't do much on offense, it doesn't really help because that guy isn't gonna be on the floor much in crunch time. Other than the few obvious targets out there, there aren't that many guys who can do both.

Pick n Roll.. Ed Davis was pretty good in the pick n roll and had a good touch around the rim, he isn't much of a shooter or scorer but in the Nets system, they don't value centers scoring much. They like the Capela/ Gobert type centers.. all defense with points coming off putbacks and lob dunks with an occasional 3.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#546 » by Kingsway_fan » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:18 am

Any FA's heading there??? Or are they all going out west...
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#547 » by Kingsway_fan » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:19 am

Any FA's heading there??? Or are they all going out west...
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#548 » by NetsJets » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:00 pm

I like the idea of adding Dewayne Dedmon he does what Ed Davis does but unlike Davis he can shoot the 3. Someone on here brought his name up and I’ve liked the idea ever since.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#549 » by Rockice_24 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:16 pm

I still think we look to pair Kyrie and Russell together. All this crap about Russell leaving was started by a Knicks beat writer.

Only way Russell walks is if we sign KD which I still think is real possibility. If not gut says we move Dinwiddie and try to bring in Tobias slightly under the max.

Either some form of

Kyrie/Din
Levert/Musa
Harris/Prince
KD/Kurucs
Allen/Davis

or

Kyrie/Levert
Russell/Musa
Harris/Prince
Harris/Kurucs
Allen/Davis
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#550 » by GTR11 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:19 pm

Papi_swav wrote:
Netaman wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:lol I mean we're not asking Prince to guard centers now, I've made a list somewhere of bruiser centers we can grab to guard big guys like Embiid. It was a few days ago on one of these threads.


Sure but if you sign another bruiser like Ed Davis who can't do much on offense, it doesn't really help because that guy isn't gonna be on the floor much in crunch time. Other than the few obvious targets out there, there aren't that many guys who can do both.

Pick n Roll.. Ed Davis was pretty good in the pick n roll and had a good touch around the rim, he isn't much of a shooter or scorer but in the Nets system, they don't value centers scoring much. They like the Capela/ Gobert type centers.. all defense with points coming off putbacks and lob dunks with an occasional 3.

That's a huge issue I have with Kenny's system. I just hope we did it due to lack of talent Marks could provide. If anything, successful playoff teams do have capable bigs who can score and pass, those put back and defense first big teams usually out co.e semifinal. Houston couldn't play Capela and now looking to trade him, Gobert being questioned if he's a true max player because of his offensive deficiencies etc. The fact that teams big must be capable offensively to pass, make a 10-15ft and 3pt shot is just undeniable. Well unless you can go and get Curry and Klay.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#551 » by Rockice_24 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:36 pm

GTR11 wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:
Netaman wrote:
Sure but if you sign another bruiser like Ed Davis who can't do much on offense, it doesn't really help because that guy isn't gonna be on the floor much in crunch time. Other than the few obvious targets out there, there aren't that many guys who can do both.

Pick n Roll.. Ed Davis was pretty good in the pick n roll and had a good touch around the rim, he isn't much of a shooter or scorer but in the Nets system, they don't value centers scoring much. They like the Capela/ Gobert type centers.. all defense with points coming off putbacks and lob dunks with an occasional 3.

That's a huge issue I have with Kenny's system. I just hope we did it due to lack of talent Marks could provide. If anything, successful playoff teams do have capable bigs who can score and pass, those put back and defense first big teams usually out co.e semifinal. Houston couldn't play Capela and now looking to trade him, Gobert being questioned if he's a true max player because of his offensive deficiencies etc. The fact that teams big must be capable offensively to pass, make a 10-15ft and 3pt shot is just undeniable. Well unless you can go and get Curry and Klay.


I think you can make it work if your C is the only guy on the floor that can't shoot. The issue becomes if the C can't switch out on stretch PF's though. It wasn't offensively for Capela but defensively why they took him out. Pretty sure GS went small on them with Green at the 5 and they matched up. Very few teams can do what GS does.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#552 » by Papi_swav » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:58 pm

Rockice_24 wrote:
GTR11 wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:Pick n Roll.. Ed Davis was pretty good in the pick n roll and had a good touch around the rim, he isn't much of a shooter or scorer but in the Nets system, they don't value centers scoring much. They like the Capela/ Gobert type centers.. all defense with points coming off putbacks and lob dunks with an occasional 3.

That's a huge issue I have with Kenny's system. I just hope we did it due to lack of talent Marks could provide. If anything, successful playoff teams do have capable bigs who can score and pass, those put back and defense first big teams usually out co.e semifinal. Houston couldn't play Capela and now looking to trade him, Gobert being questioned if he's a true max player because of his offensive deficiencies etc. The fact that teams big must be capable offensively to pass, make a 10-15ft and 3pt shot is just undeniable. Well unless you can go and get Curry and Klay.


I think you can make it work if your C is the only guy on the floor that can't shoot. The issue becomes if the C can't switch out on stretch PF's though. It wasn't offensively for Capela but defensively why they took him out. Pretty sure GS went small on them with Green at the 5 and they matched up. Very few teams can do what GS does.

Good point, Gobert/Capela are strictly in the paint guys and are not that great on switches, Allen can keep up with smaller guys on defense. To win it you need elite guards or wings, almost every team that won had a great guard or wing, you can go all the way back to the Jordan Bulls. We don't need dominate centers to win it anymore, this isn't the 90s. I wish Allen can start making 3s, Gasol 3 point shot was a huge weapon for Toronto.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#553 » by Netaman » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:28 pm

They don't need to re-invent the wheel in terms of how they deploy their lineup. They simply need 1 or 2 more bigs who can match up defensively and contribute offensively somewhat so they aren't playing 4 on 5 in crunch time.

The Raptors took their next step not only by adding Leonard, but also Gasol and seeing Siakam develop. Without that crew doing what they did they don't get by Embid or the Greek freak. That's where this roster is currently non-competitive and adding Irving won't be enough to compensate alone. It also can't be whitewashed by saying "we don't play a PF, so we can just put an extra guard on the court".

Adding KD or Leonard would obviously be the best way to address this, as well as drafting another competent player with length like Kurocs (and continuing his development). If we miss out on those guys Tobias Harris is the next most obvious target, along with a possibly a few others. With the draft being so loaded with guys who could fit the 3&D stretch 4 role trading Dinwiddie for a lotto pick and signing Irving seems like an efficient way to improve the roster in both the backcourt and frontcourt. Not to mention create room to retain DLo and continue adding pieces in the future.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#554 » by Rockice_24 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:01 pm

Lets say we miss on KD (resigns in GS) and can choose between keeping Russell or keeping Din/Prince/#27. Basically in order to bring in another max FA we'd have to move a combo of those 3 assets or Russell. In reality maybe we can keep Prince or #27 because one of Butler or Tobias will take a little less but in this scenario both say they'll come but only for full max. I don't think moving Harris is an option for us because of his scheme fit. Which would you prefer to do? The other max target would be Butler or Tobias (player of your choice for this scenario).

So what do you do Russell (best player out of all of them) or more depth (Din, Prince, #27)?
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#555 » by Prokorov » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:57 pm

Papi_swav wrote:
Netaman wrote:We may not have a traditional PF but we need another big - having to play Dudley at C/PF is obviously a big part of why we got steamrolled by Embid. You take the best players you can get out of what's available, but this roster absolutely needs a dynamic big who can score and defend in the worst way. Prince may be a step in the right direction but he's far from the answer.

lol I mean we're not asking Prince to guard centers now, I've made a list somewhere of bruiser centers we can grab to guard big guys like Embiid. It was a few days ago on one of these threads.


exactly... we need our version of aaron baynes
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#556 » by Prokorov » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:58 pm

Netaman wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:
Netaman wrote:We may not have a traditional PF but we need another big - having to play Dudley at C/PF is obviously a big part of why we got steamrolled by Embid. You take the best players you can get out of what's available, but this roster absolutely needs a dynamic big who can score and defend in the worst way. Prince may be a step in the right direction but he's far from the answer.

lol I mean we're not asking Prince to guard centers now, I've made a list somewhere of bruiser centers we can grab to guard big guys like Embiid. It was a few days ago on one of these threads.


Sure but if you sign another bruiser like Ed Davis who can't do much on offense, it doesn't really help because that guy isn't gonna be on the floor much in crunch time. Other than the few obvious targets out there, there aren't that many guys who can do both.


if allen cant be on the floor in crunch time in 2-3 years you move on from him
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#557 » by Prokorov » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:59 pm

Kaiser30 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:they nets dont use a power forward. they dont believe it has a place in the modern NBA. they use 2 small forwards. price is a perfect fit

Can you please clarify what a "power forward" in your terms actually means in today's nba? After reading these discussions and your argument so often since the end of the season, I'd be very happy to get a clarification here.

An oldschool bruiser/rebounder/post player with limited shooting range? I guess it is (or at least should be) common sense that these players have only limited use in today's nba.

Your big small forward category should be clear, guys like Carroll, Kurucs and Prince.

But what about guys that are taller/heavier? Guys like Blake Griffin and John Collins? Both are definitely not considered as "big small forwards". Do you consider them to be a center under Kenny?

To an extreme, would KP strictly be a center in Brooklyn and in absolutely no way a fit at the 4 for at least 15 minutes of his 35 minutes per game?

Under Kenny, various players have started at the four. Prior to Kurucs and Dudley also guys like Booker and Scola. My biggest takeaway is, he first and foremost values shooting and spacing at the four. Last years version flat out had no taller players who were able to shoot the three at a decent level, so he relied on very small lineups. But I'm very unsure if this approach couldn't change next year if Kenny gets a bigger player/better rebounder who is also able to shoot from outside. Note that last years roster wasn't exactly build to fit Kenny's vision because roster spots were pretty scarce after the draft and due to the salary dumps. The option to go small will definitely remain a big part of his tactics, but I could also see Kenny going bigger for stretches. Or at least have a real stretch 5 again. I think as a coach, he will demand more tools to play with compared to last year.


We dont use a PF. we use two wings/small forwards. Caroll is the prototype. same with tobias. 6'7 - 6'10" player who can handle the ball, run around screens. not just a stretch big
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#558 » by Netaman » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:43 pm

The talent we had on the roster the past couple years and the optimal talent for the system are 2 different things. Carroll, RHJ, and Dudley were playing PF out of necessity, not by design. The same way the Hawks had Millsap + Horford I'd be shocked if Kenny wouldn't far prefer to have 2 multi-dimensional bigs who can fit within his system and start instead of 1. I mean, that's just common sense.

Obviously you accommodate the best talent you can find be it KD, Kawhi, or Harris. But it's undeniable that this team as currently constituted is not long enough or big enough on the inside to play the kind of defense it's going to take to get by Milwaukee or Philly in upcoming years. Prince, Kurocs, and Allen are all nice pieces but they need more both developmentally and around them.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#559 » by Rockice_24 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:39 pm

Suns are heating up their trade talks trying to get max space. I take that as they are hoping Russell hits the market.

I hope Marks can build something around Russell to PHX and #6 back to us. They get what they want, we get something back for Russell and clear more cap space for 2 max guys.

Only thing is we have to do the deal before the draft or just take whoever they draft at #6 because if Kyrie changes his mind after we do that deal we are burned hard and have to hope whoever we draft at #6 is as good as Russell.

I saw PHX has about 22M so $27 is D-Lo's max they need to lose about 5M to land him at the max.

Russell 27M + #27 (1.9M) for #6 (4M), Jackson (6M). That give the Nets 2 max slots for Kyrie and Butler/Tobias. 5M short of the KD max roughly. We get to try and salvage Jackson in the G-League but also get something valuable for Russell.

Seems like a win win to me. PHX now has Russell, Booker, Bridges, Warren, Ayton.
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Re: Official 2019 Brooklyn Nets Offseason Thread 

Post#560 » by CalamityX12 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:02 am

Rockice_24 wrote:Suns are heating up their trade talks trying to get max space. I take that as they are hoping Russell hits the market.

I hope Marks can build something around Russell to PHX and #6 back to us. They get what they want, we get something back for Russell and clear more cap space for 2 max guys.

Only thing is we have to do the deal before the draft or just take whoever they draft at #6 because if Kyrie changes his mind after we do that deal we are burned hard and have to hope whoever we draft at #6 is as good as Russell.

I saw PHX has about 22M so $27 is D-Lo's max they need to lose about 5M to land him at the max.

Russell 27M + #27 (1.9M) for #6 (4M), Jackson (6M). That give the Nets 2 max slots for Kyrie and Butler/Tobias. 5M short of the KD max roughly. We get to try and salvage Jackson in the G-League but also get something valuable for Russell.

Seems like a win win to me. PHX now has Russell, Booker, Bridges, Warren, Ayton.

I thought we couldn't trade Dlo as is....

if we could, though I'm not advocating to move from DLO as I think he should be here, hell yea Dlo to PHX for their 6th..

but I thought we couldn't trade him per the rules.
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