ImageImageImageImageImage

Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition

Moderators: jerseyjac, Rich Rane, NyCeEvO

Which Door Would YOU Take?

Door #1: strip assets to bring in 2 veteran All-Star FA's
10
53%
Door #2: don't get a star FA, amass quality youth assets
9
47%
 
Total votes: 19

ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 13,643
And1: 228
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#1 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri May 17, 2019 6:10 am

Let's imagine 2 scenarios for Brooklyn's summer, and see which you would take. Reality will probably fall somewhere in the middle, but I'm just curious to see which extreme folks would prefer. Please vote, and list your reasons in reply.

DOOR #1 - OFFLOAD SALARY, MORTGAGE FUTURE ASSETS FOR SUPERTEAM
Step 1: Crabbe/17 for Dallas' TPE/Broekhoff
Step 2: Harris/27 for DEN's TPE/Vanderbilt
Step 3: Dinwiddie/'20 BRK1st for Briscoe

We accept less-than-optimal value return, in order to clear enough capspace to sign BOTH Durant AND Butler. Grizzled veterans with winning pedigree, who slot beautifully around our young stars.
Russell, LeVert, Butler, Durant, Allen
Napier, Graham, Musa, Kurucs, Williams



DOOR #2 - STRIKE OUT ON MAX FA'S, ABSORB SALARY, SIGN YOUNG ROLEPLAYERS
Step 1: Crabbe/Harris for Wiggins/11
Step 2: Sign Looney for 4 years, $33mil
Step 3: Sign Lyles for 4 years, $41mil
Step 4: Sign Rozier for 4 years, $37mil

We spend our capspace on young diamonds in the rough, players who have shown above-average two-way skill, and are still able to be pried from their current team.
Russell, LeVert, Wiggins, Lyles, Allen
Rozier, Dinwiddie, [Little], Kurucs, Looney
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
Aussienet3
Junior
Posts: 429
And1: 89
Joined: Jul 17, 2017
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#2 » by Aussienet3 » Fri May 17, 2019 11:40 am

I really like looney as a FA get.
User avatar
SpeedyG
RealGM
Posts: 15,333
And1: 1,234
Joined: Mar 07, 2003

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#3 » by SpeedyG » Fri May 17, 2019 12:14 pm

Honestly I don't like either, though option 2 is far worse. At least option 1 gives us a chance because Durant is here.

Not opposed to blowing the team up if the opportunity is there, but Caris/Butler/Durant aren't a great fit IMO. You're basically banking on Russell and Caris to be consistent enough outside shooting to open it up for Durant.

Butler and Caris are too similar, strength and weaknesses alike.



Sent from my SM-G925T using RealGM mobile app
Bless the man if his heart and his land are one ~ FrancisM, R.I.P. 3/6/09
TheNetsFan
Veteran
Posts: 2,902
And1: 587
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
   

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#4 » by TheNetsFan » Fri May 17, 2019 12:46 pm

In Let's Make a Deal, every door is not supposed to be a Zonk. These may be the 2 worst possible offseasons.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 33,182
And1: 10,289
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#5 » by Prokorov » Fri May 17, 2019 12:56 pm

I'll take option number 3:

Don't strip any young assets, add 1 max all-star free agent (one of KAwhi, Tobias, Butler, Kemba, Kyrie)

Door 2 is god awful. massively overpaying role players who dont move the needle at all.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 13,643
And1: 228
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#6 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri May 17, 2019 2:40 pm

Prokorov wrote:I'll take option number 3:

Don't strip any young assets, add 1 max all-star free agent (one of KAwhi, Tobias, Butler, Kemba, Kyrie)

Door 2 is god awful. massively overpaying role players who dont move the needle at all.

I don't think that $9-11mil/yr is a massive overpay at all, for 3 players whose "needles" are pointing up and project well statistically going forward. It's a strategy the teams like Utah, Memphis, Denver and Portland have executed with success.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 13,643
And1: 228
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#7 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri May 17, 2019 2:49 pm

SpeedyG wrote:Not opposed to blowing the team up if the opportunity is there, but Caris/Butler/Durant aren't a great fit IMO. You're basically banking on Russell and Caris to be consistent enough outside shooting to open it up for Durant.

I understand the logic here, but I disagree with your conclusion. First, KD led some very successful Thunder teams with less efficient outside shooters around him than D'Angelo and Caris. Spacing can help any superstar, but Durant doesn't need anyone to" open it up" for him.

I see your point about Butler and Levert having similar skill sets, but they have different body types for defensive switches. I think we could do far worse as a 3rd/4th option.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
TheNetsFan
Veteran
Posts: 2,902
And1: 587
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
   

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#8 » by TheNetsFan » Fri May 17, 2019 3:42 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:I'll take option number 3:

Don't strip any young assets, add 1 max all-star free agent (one of KAwhi, Tobias, Butler, Kemba, Kyrie)

Door 2 is god awful. massively overpaying role players who dont move the needle at all.

I don't think that $9-11mil/yr is a massive overpay at all, for 3 players whose "needles" are pointing up and project well statistically going forward. It's a strategy the teams like Utah, Memphis, Denver and Portland have executed with success.

I wouldn't want any of those guys. I'm fine with napping some young, higher end role players, but that list is awful. You want those young role players to have proven something. I'd much rather overpay for a guy like Brogdon than sign those bums.
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 13,643
And1: 228
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#9 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:17 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:I wouldn't want any of those guys. I'm fine with napping some young, higher end role players, but that list is awful. You want those young role players to have proven something. I'd much rather overpay for a guy like Brogdon than sign those bums.

I'd rather have him too, even with very similar players already here. But Brogdon is not going anywhere, MIL will keep him at whatever price the market bears.

The best FA's under 25 that I feel are gettable without a S&T or giving up assets are:

-- Randle (but he'll cost $20mil+/year to sign)
-- Bell (I'll be interested to see if a bidding war breaks out, he projects as a rich-man's Montrezl IMO)

And the 3 guys I listed. Lyles did not have good statistical output this season, but he's proven in the past to be a very solid two-way versatile player. He can knock down 3's at a good clip, and is a plus-defender at 3 positions. He looks super ordinary, but he's legit. Looney has a weird skill set, but would fit our system well IMO. You can see the positive impact he has in the Warriors' rotation. Rozier could be considered surplus to requirements, and may prefer to go elsewhere for a larger role. But I think it's possible to snag him at this price, and turn our young guard rotation into the most feared one in the league.

Satoransky and Mirotic could also be under-the-radar value investments, but they are both over 25.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 13,643
And1: 228
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#10 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:19 pm

Also, I don't mean to over-reply to my own thread, I'm curious as to folks' thoughts on the Wiggins deal. If we struck out on the big FA's, would YOU be happy to get him and the 11th pick for Crabbe and Goyle, I mean, Harris?
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
TheNetsFan
Veteran
Posts: 2,902
And1: 587
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
   

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#11 » by TheNetsFan » Fri May 17, 2019 5:09 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I wouldn't want any of those guys. I'm fine with napping some young, higher end role players, but that list is awful. You want those young role players to have proven something. I'd much rather overpay for a guy like Brogdon than sign those bums.

I'd rather have him too, even with very similar players already here. But Brogdon is not going anywhere, MIL will keep him at whatever price the market bears.

I know it’s newer ownership, but I have a hard time believing Milwaukee will go tax crazy. They already locked up Bledsoe. They’ll likely prioritize Middleton. I’m sure they want Lopez to return. They may match all offers and then dump someone in a year or two. I’d still make a run at Brogdon though.
DarkXaero
General Manager
Posts: 8,459
And1: 1,872
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#12 » by DarkXaero » Fri May 17, 2019 6:17 pm

Why would anyone pick option #2 over #1?
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 13,643
And1: 228
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#13 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:31 pm

DarkXaero wrote:Why would anyone pick option #2 over #1?

A fair question.

In scenario 1, you get two 30-something two-way studs, and you keep your other 3 starters. It costs you alot of other youth assets to jettison productive role-players, to free up enough capspace to sign those two. Then, you consider the health of both players. Jimmy has only once played more than 67 games in a season since 2012. KD's latest injury is worse than GSW are admitting; his reaction was that of an Achilles tear. When you think about it, it's kind of like the Celtics trade, through free agency instead. The players are younger, and the price of assets isn't as steep, but in order to get them you have to sign them to 4-year max deals. You have to hope you get the entire contract's worth form the first two years, because the last 2 aren't going to be a bed of roses.

I would LOVE to assemble this starting five, and there are enough reasons to feel wary of the opportunity cost.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
Nebkreb11
Sophomore
Posts: 107
And1: 34
Joined: Jun 29, 2014
         

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#14 » by Nebkreb11 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:25 pm

If we had to pick, I'd take one because any team with Durant is a title contender, especially in the East.
That being said, I don't think it'll take that much 'stripping' to open up two max slots. I think we trade one of our 1sts along with Crabbe to dump his salary, and that's a good start.
DarkXaero
General Manager
Posts: 8,459
And1: 1,872
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#15 » by DarkXaero » Fri May 17, 2019 8:31 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:Why would anyone pick option #2 over #1?

A fair question.

In scenario 1, you get two 30-something two-way studs, and you keep your other 3 starters. It costs you alot of other youth assets to jettison productive role-players, to free up enough capspace to sign those two. Then, you consider the health of both players. Jimmy has only once played more than 67 games in a season since 2012. KD's latest injury is worse than GSW are admitting; his reaction was that of an Achilles tear. When you think about it, it's kind of like the Celtics trade, through free agency instead. The players are younger, and the price of assets isn't as steep, but in order to get them you have to sign them to 4-year max deals. You have to hope you get the entire contract's worth form the first two years, because the last 2 aren't going to be a bed of roses.

I would LOVE to assemble this starting five, and there are enough reasons to feel wary of the opportunity cost.
Yes but the upside of option #2 isn't much at all. At least with option #1, you're getting a likely contender. Option #2's upside isn't contention.
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 13,643
And1: 228
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#16 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri May 17, 2019 9:12 pm

DarkXaero wrote:Yes but the upside of option #2 isn't much at all. At least with option #1, you're getting a likely contender. Option #2's upside isn't contention.

I agree, it's a collection of nickels that you're hoping will turn into quarters, instead of a couple of wrinkled dollar bills.

I don't think we're guaranteed a superstar in free agency. There are a ton of teams vying for a few difference-makers, and when the music stops, some teams are going to be left without chairs. We could either throw max money at non-max players, or we could dig a bit deeper. Look for guys who have played well and contributed in a positive way, who aren't likely to command huge money and whose teams are not financially capable of matching a decent offer. The hope is that 2 of those 3 players end up as positive trade assets while they're positive contributors to your team, and maybe you use them as trade bait for a superstar later.

It's not sexy, but it's better than sitting on our hands and signing scrap-heap guys to a bunch of 1-year deals, hoping to swing big in FA again next summer. By then, we'll have Caris' RFA hold to maneuver, along with Russell's deal on the books. Now is our window of opportunity, utilize our capspace to either sign stars or collect assets who might become semi-stars, and could facilitate a trade for one.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
Aussienet3
Junior
Posts: 429
And1: 89
Joined: Jul 17, 2017
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#17 » by Aussienet3 » Sat May 18, 2019 2:33 am

Prokorov wrote:I'll take option number 3:

Don't strip any young assets, add 1 max all-star free agent (one of KAwhi, Tobias, Butler, Kemba, Kyrie)

Door 2 is god awful. massively overpaying role players who dont move the needle at all.


Option 3 wasn't put up because its mostly likely not happening. Outside of Kawhi i'm still scratching my head that you believe the other players will move the needle? Outside of Kawhi we know what we get with Tobias, Butler, Kemba and Kyrie. Nothing past the second round! Max Kemba who can't even get his current team to the playoffs? Max Kyrie who has done nothing but pout and not win anything with out LeBren? That to me is god awful and over paying players who won't move the needle at ALL!
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 33,182
And1: 10,289
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#18 » by Prokorov » Sat May 18, 2019 4:30 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:I'll take option number 3:

Don't strip any young assets, add 1 max all-star free agent (one of KAwhi, Tobias, Butler, Kemba, Kyrie)

Door 2 is god awful. massively overpaying role players who dont move the needle at all.

I don't think that $9-11mil/yr is a massive overpay at all, for 3 players whose "needles" are pointing up and project well statistically going forward. It's a strategy the teams like Utah, Memphis, Denver and Portland have executed with success.


the seconed worst contract you can hand out is the 10 million contract to a low level bench role player. we would be doing that like 3 times in a row. it is the absolute worst possible use of cap space.

we would be better off taking dead money for draft picks.

i have seen 0 teams employ this with success. utah is good because they drafted one of the best defensive players off all time. denver is good because they drafted a top 10 player in jokoc. the blazers are good because they have 2 elite gaurds. memphis is not good.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 33,182
And1: 10,289
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#19 » by Prokorov » Sat May 18, 2019 4:33 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I wouldn't want any of those guys. I'm fine with napping some young, higher end role players, but that list is awful. You want those young role players to have proven something. I'd much rather overpay for a guy like Brogdon than sign those bums.

I'd rather have him too, even with very similar players already here. But Brogdon is not going anywhere, MIL will keep him at whatever price the market bears.

The best FA's under 25 that I feel are gettable without a S&T or giving up assets are:

-- Randle (but he'll cost $20mil+/year to sign)
-- Bell (I'll be interested to see if a bidding war breaks out, he projects as a rich-man's Montrezl IMO)

And the 3 guys I listed. Lyles did not have good statistical output this season, but he's proven in the past to be a very solid two-way versatile player. He can knock down 3's at a good clip, and is a plus-defender at 3 positions. He looks super ordinary, but he's legit. Looney has a weird skill set, but would fit our system well IMO. You can see the positive impact he has in the Warriors' rotation. Rozier could be considered surplus to requirements, and may prefer to go elsewhere for a larger role. But I think it's possible to snag him at this price, and turn our young guard rotation into the most feared one in the league.

Satoransky and Mirotic could also be under-the-radar value investments, but they are both over 25.


i wouldnt want any of those players, even for half what you listed.

lyles is trash. rozier is absolute, complete and utter dumpster garbage. looney is the definition of a below avg role player. if you said i could get all 3 for 11 million id turn it down, let alone like 11 million each.

Mirotic would be my #1, worst possible signing/move we could make.

Randle is the only guy on that list worth a damn, and he isnt a good investment with allen here on a rookie deal
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 33,182
And1: 10,289
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: Let's Make a Deal, 2019 Nets Offseason Edition 

Post#20 » by Prokorov » Sat May 18, 2019 4:35 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:Also, I don't mean to over-reply to my own thread, I'm curious as to folks' thoughts on the Wiggins deal. If we struck out on the big FA's, would YOU be happy to get him and the 11th pick for Crabbe and Goyle, I mean, Harris?


id need more. we are giving up our cap space for 30 million of arguably the leagues worst player among players who played more then 20 minutes per game. 11th pick is nice but not enough. taking crabbe is typically good but not when crabbe is dealt for the leagues 3rd worst contract.

we dont need to be making moves like this.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017

Return to Brooklyn Nets