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WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd

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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#201 » by Netaman » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:34 pm

Again that 2021 second round pick continues to get lost in the shuffle a little bit. Let's look at where those future picks are likely to fall:

2020 - Hawks get our non-lotto first. High #15 - low #30. Likely to end up in the 20's if the improve via FA.
2021 - We get the Hawks 2nd round pick. High #31 - low #60. Like to end up in the 30's. Hawks were 5th worst team in NBA this year and moved down to 8th overall in the lotto. Maybe they take a leap this year or next, but most likely not.

So we are talking about the difference between 1 year and drafting ~10 spots later overall.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#202 » by Prokorov » Sun Jun 9, 2019 8:46 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
Aren’t you guys worried on attitude concerns on Kyrie?

I think he’ll be happier with the Nets though. Atkinson’s system seem to favor scoring PG’s like DLo and Dinwiddie.
I'm a bit worried, but not as much as the current perception around the league. I think he has received a lot of unfair criticism/blame from Celtics, their media & fans. And like you said, I think he would be much happier here.
While I agree with you, I'm hopeful that he recognizes that he would need to check himself a bit.

The reason why we've been on the rise has been due to the attitude of our players and the transparency of management. I'm not saying that he must change, but he at least needs to be open to the idea of it, especially if it's for the betterment of the team.

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whether its here or the knicks dude is going to be playing with a huge chip on his shoulder looking to evicerate the league. people overblow the issues in boston. he NEVER wanted to be there. and this isnt some spin cause he may be i net, i told you guys this since the day he was traded.

if thats not bad enough, the celtics fraud ECF run made the young guys heads eneormous. despite Rozier doing next to nothing ater round 1 and horford being the MVP of the philly series. the media and a decent amount of fans bought into the kids being better/fine without Kyrie, despite it being a small sample. Ainge did a bad job no consolidating assets with the roster and Stevens did an awful job no playing favorites with heyward.

Kyrie was the scapegoat, i mean he could have handled it better, but when you are already pretending you are happy there to remove distractions of if you are leaving and then trying to focus on rehabbing while people tell you the team is better without you all while you know your just there another year its easy to say "screw it"
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#203 » by Papi_swav » Sun Jun 9, 2019 9:12 pm

Packers+NetsWIN wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:
Stop lying trying to make the deal sound better....
It's the 17th pick this year, next years first round pick and a second.
I'm not saying Prince isn't a good player just that they overpaid. Hes only under contract for a year but whatever I'm paranoid lol.


we didnt overpay at all... Crabbe is a horrible contract, that costs a first. Prince is a 24 year old Demarre carrol, he is worth a non lotto first as well

if anythingm we got off cheap because they dont want to pay prince


I agree. I know this is a guaranteed situation, but as a reference point here is the list of every player picked 17th since 2013:

Dennis Schroder
James Young
Rashad Vaughn
Wade Baldwin IV
D.J. Wilson
Donte DiVincenzo

Between that list, the notion that this draft class is thought of as relatively weak, and the fact that the nets still have a first rounder, I feel comfortable with this part of the trade.

And this is before you factor in the fact that Prince is younger, cheaper, and addresses a bigger need on this nets team is a huge win.

And the #27 pick has some very good players picked the last few years.

2018- Robert Williams ( still early)
2017- Kuzma
2016- Siakam
2015- Larry Nance Jr
2014- Bogdan Bogdanovic
2013- Gobert
2009- Demare Carrol

So it seems like we'll draft a future starter , possible All star player... one could hope.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#204 » by vincecarter4pres » Sun Jun 9, 2019 9:19 pm

Prokorov wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:I'm a bit worried, but not as much as the current perception around the league. I think he has received a lot of unfair criticism/blame from Celtics, their media & fans. And like you said, I think he would be much happier here.
While I agree with you, I'm hopeful that he recognizes that he would need to check himself a bit.

The reason why we've been on the rise has been due to the attitude of our players and the transparency of management. I'm not saying that he must change, but he at least needs to be open to the idea of it, especially if it's for the betterment of the team.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


whether its here or the knicks dude is going to be playing with a huge chip on his shoulder looking to evicerate the league. people overblow the issues in boston. he NEVER wanted to be there. and this isnt some spin cause he may be i net, i told you guys this since the day he was traded.

if thats not bad enough, the celtics fraud ECF run made the young guys heads eneormous. despite Rozier doing next to nothing ater round 1 and horford being the MVP of the philly series. the media and a decent amount of fans bought into the kids being better/fine without Kyrie, despite it being a small sample. Ainge did a bad job no consolidating assets with the roster and Stevens did an awful job no playing favorites with heyward.

Kyrie was the scapegoat, i mean he could have handled it better, but when you are already pretending you are happy there to remove distractions of if you are leaving and then trying to focus on rehabbing while people tell you the team is better without you all while you know your just there another year its easy to say "screw it"

Going to be beyond souped if Kyrie signs here. Dude has been one of my favorite players since high school and although he's been a touch overrated at times, he's become criminally underrated. When healthy he's a beast and he's only 27. Even if he has an early falloff, he's probably going to be a dominant star for at least the first 3 years of his 4 year deal.

He's a guy whose a lock top 20 player year in and year out and has full seasons where he's been a legitimate top 8 player at least a couple times and on top of this mainly ups his game in the playoffs.

Sign him, re-sign DLo, maybe spend the rest of the cap on 1 year bloated deal(2 year, 2nd non-guaranteed) to shore up the 4 spot and have expiring salary available for a deadline deal and it's on. Add KD, one of the 5 best players in the world but having to renounce Russell, even better.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#205 » by Netaman » Sun Jun 9, 2019 10:00 pm

I have no issue signing Kyrie and will be pumped if he's the guy we end up maxing. He's a very good player, if he's the best we can do with our $, terrific. But if we can get KD (or Leonard) without him I say keep the younger, cheaper, DLo.

"super teams" just haven't worked out, and JMO but it's a mark against him that he asked out of Cleveland, got his wish, went to a contender and that didn't work out either. Look no further than what Kawhi is doing in Toronto - in the NBA 1 player can most definitely elevate an organization. I'm not blaming Kyrie for all the ills of those 2 teams but it's just a fact that he's about to leave his 2nd org on bad terms. Russell came here and put the work in to become the player he is right now. Is he as good or as Kyrie? No. Can he continue improving and get that good? Maybe, maybe not. But in this case the difference isn't big enough for me to dump the horse that got me here. I'd rather keep building with him and use the extra $ to add another good rotation player in the front court.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#206 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jun 9, 2019 11:40 pm

Netaman wrote:The 2nd in 2021 and the 2020 first could end up being no more than 10-20 picks away from each other (though obviously 1 year apart). So in terms of the future picks, that value is certainly something that could practically end up a lot more similar than it seems.

That Marks gave up the 17th pick this year though is still somewhat surprising and telling, I mean with how good he's been drafting we need to think of that like he just gave up Caris Levert or Jarrett Allen and their entire rookie contract. So why would he do that?

1. He knows exactly what he needs that cap room for - and it's worth it.
2. He knows there are picks for sale, so #17 is replaceable if he sees a player he wants falling.
3. He covets Prince and thinks 1 year of his rookie deal is worth that pick.
4. Some combination of all 3.

I'm guessing the answer is #4 but would speculate that #1 has to be the key trigger for the deal to do agree to it before seeing how the draft actually breaks. He needed to have the flexibility to do whatever he needs to do in FA because he's confident he's landing 1 of his top targets - and he couldn't risk waiting to have that flexibility. And via FA every teams obvious top 2 targets would be KD or Leonard, with KD seeming to be the more likely option in this scenario since he's the only 35% max player we couldn't previously afford but now can.

Greg Logan had an interesting tweet storm last night speculating on KD as well as the Kyrie rumors possibly coming from Kyrie side of things in an effort to get in on what's about to happen here (as opposed to being Marks' top target). That would certainly make sense as to why he's been the only guy we've specifically been connected to despite there likely being other top targets on Marks' board.
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I would be totally fine with signing Irving, signing someone like Tobias Harris (I don't think Philly will resign both him and Butler) and then going over the cap to resign Russell.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#207 » by LOUiS-D » Sun Jun 9, 2019 11:46 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Netaman wrote:The 2nd in 2021 and the 2020 first could end up being no more than 10-20 picks away from each other (though obviously 1 year apart). So in terms of the future picks, that value is certainly something that could practically end up a lot more similar than it seems.

That Marks gave up the 17th pick this year though is still somewhat surprising and telling, I mean with how good he's been drafting we need to think of that like he just gave up Caris Levert or Jarrett Allen and their entire rookie contract. So why would he do that?

1. He knows exactly what he needs that cap room for - and it's worth it.
2. He knows there are picks for sale, so #17 is replaceable if he sees a player he wants falling.
3. He covets Prince and thinks 1 year of his rookie deal is worth that pick.
4. Some combination of all 3.

I'm guessing the answer is #4 but would speculate that #1 has to be the key trigger for the deal to do agree to it before seeing how the draft actually breaks. He needed to have the flexibility to do whatever he needs to do in FA because he's confident he's landing 1 of his top targets - and he couldn't risk waiting to have that flexibility. And via FA every teams obvious top 2 targets would be KD or Leonard, with KD seeming to be the more likely option in this scenario since he's the only 35% max player we couldn't previously afford but now can.

Greg Logan had an interesting tweet storm last night speculating on KD as well as the Kyrie rumors possibly coming from Kyrie side of things in an effort to get in on what's about to happen here (as opposed to being Marks' top target). That would certainly make sense as to why he's been the only guy we've specifically been connected to despite there likely being other top targets on Marks' board.
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I would be totally fine with signing Irving, signing someone like Tobias Harris (I don't think Philly will resign both him and Butler) and then going over the cap to resign Russell.

Do you still want Tobi if you have to clear 13.4M to do it (Din + Prince/Musa+Rodi)?

All the 2 max guys + retain DLo situations involve pretty big trade offs.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#208 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jun 9, 2019 11:49 pm

LOUiS-D wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Netaman wrote:The 2nd in 2021 and the 2020 first could end up being no more than 10-20 picks away from each other (though obviously 1 year apart). So in terms of the future picks, that value is certainly something that could practically end up a lot more similar than it seems.

That Marks gave up the 17th pick this year though is still somewhat surprising and telling, I mean with how good he's been drafting we need to think of that like he just gave up Caris Levert or Jarrett Allen and their entire rookie contract. So why would he do that?

1. He knows exactly what he needs that cap room for - and it's worth it.
2. He knows there are picks for sale, so #17 is replaceable if he sees a player he wants falling.
3. He covets Prince and thinks 1 year of his rookie deal is worth that pick.
4. Some combination of all 3.

I'm guessing the answer is #4 but would speculate that #1 has to be the key trigger for the deal to do agree to it before seeing how the draft actually breaks. He needed to have the flexibility to do whatever he needs to do in FA because he's confident he's landing 1 of his top targets - and he couldn't risk waiting to have that flexibility. And via FA every teams obvious top 2 targets would be KD or Leonard, with KD seeming to be the more likely option in this scenario since he's the only 35% max player we couldn't previously afford but now can.

Greg Logan had an interesting tweet storm last night speculating on KD as well as the Kyrie rumors possibly coming from Kyrie side of things in an effort to get in on what's about to happen here (as opposed to being Marks' top target). That would certainly make sense as to why he's been the only guy we've specifically been connected to despite there likely being other top targets on Marks' board.
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I would be totally fine with signing Irving, signing someone like Tobias Harris (I don't think Philly will resign both him and Butler) and then going over the cap to resign Russell.

Do you still want Tobi if you have to clear 13.4M to do it (Din + Prince/Musa+Rodi)?

All the 2 max guys + retain DLo situations involve pretty big trade offs.


How much is Harris' max?
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#209 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:40 am

Netaman wrote:I have no issue signing Kyrie and will be pumped if he's the guy we end up maxing. He's a very good player, if he's the best we can do with our $, terrific. But if we can get KD (or Leonard) without him I say keep the younger, cheaper, DLo.

"super teams" just haven't worked out, and JMO but it's a mark against him that he asked out of Cleveland, got his wish, went to a contender and that didn't work out either. Look no further than what Kawhi is doing in Toronto - in the NBA 1 player can most definitely elevate an organization. I'm not blaming Kyrie for all the ills of those 2 teams but it's just a fact that he's about to leave his 2nd org on bad terms. Russell came here and put the work in to become the player he is right now. Is he as good or as Kyrie? No. Can he continue improving and get that good? Maybe, maybe not. But in this case the difference isn't big enough for me to dump the horse that got me here. I'd rather keep building with him and use the extra $ to add another good rotation player in the front court.

There is no confusion between Kawhi and Kyrie. Nor KD and Kyrie. Or AD and Kyrie. Well maybe the latter, almost. He's more Lillard or Paul George than LeBron, obviously and for sure. But he's still a great player, in his prime, a lifelong Nets fan, etc.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#210 » by TheNetsFan » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:53 am

LOUiS-D wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Netaman wrote:The 2nd in 2021 and the 2020 first could end up being no more than 10-20 picks away from each other (though obviously 1 year apart). So in terms of the future picks, that value is certainly something that could practically end up a lot more similar than it seems.

That Marks gave up the 17th pick this year though is still somewhat surprising and telling, I mean with how good he's been drafting we need to think of that like he just gave up Caris Levert or Jarrett Allen and their entire rookie contract. So why would he do that?

1. He knows exactly what he needs that cap room for - and it's worth it.
2. He knows there are picks for sale, so #17 is replaceable if he sees a player he wants falling.
3. He covets Prince and thinks 1 year of his rookie deal is worth that pick.
4. Some combination of all 3.

I'm guessing the answer is #4 but would speculate that #1 has to be the key trigger for the deal to do agree to it before seeing how the draft actually breaks. He needed to have the flexibility to do whatever he needs to do in FA because he's confident he's landing 1 of his top targets - and he couldn't risk waiting to have that flexibility. And via FA every teams obvious top 2 targets would be KD or Leonard, with KD seeming to be the more likely option in this scenario since he's the only 35% max player we couldn't previously afford but now can.

Greg Logan had an interesting tweet storm last night speculating on KD as well as the Kyrie rumors possibly coming from Kyrie side of things in an effort to get in on what's about to happen here (as opposed to being Marks' top target). That would certainly make sense as to why he's been the only guy we've specifically been connected to despite there likely being other top targets on Marks' board.
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I would be totally fine with signing Irving, signing someone like Tobias Harris (I don't think Philly will resign both him and Butler) and then going over the cap to resign Russell.

Do you still want Tobi if you have to clear 13.4M to do it (Din + Prince/Musa+Rodi)?

All the 2 max guys + retain DLo situations involve pretty big trade offs.

I'm still not convince that Harris will get a full max. He may, but that is not a definite.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd  

Post#211 » by Keith Van Horn » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:58 am

TheNetsFan wrote:
Netaman wrote:I don't know how many teams are gonna be fighting over Carroll or Dudley - I would be surprised if 1 of them aren't back as a depth guy for a minimum deal.

Dudley is a minimum guy next year. Carroll could get more, but I seem to recall an interview a while back where he stated it’s his wife’s turn to decide where he’s going to play.

Carroll will probably go somewhere he can play meaningful minutes. I think Dudley is back here on a 2 year vet min deal.


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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#212 » by LOUiS-D » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:00 am

MrDollarBills wrote:How much is Harris' max?

Same years of service as Kyrie. Entitled to 30% of the cap for 32.7M.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#213 » by LOUiS-D » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:11 am

TheNetsFan wrote:I'm still not convince that Harris will get a full max. He may, but that is not a definite.

Still between Kyrie and Tobi they're not going to take 13.4M worth of pay cuts. It'd come down to renounce DLo or a bare minimum of moving Joe or Din. At that point I'm exploring whether a lesser second FA can be acquired at ~20M instead. Then again that's slim pickings.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#214 » by TheNetsFan » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:16 am

LOUiS-D wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I'm still not convince that Harris will get a full max. He may, but that is not a definite.

Still between Kyrie and Tobi they're not going to take 13.4M worth of pay cuts. It'd come down to renounce DLo or a bare minimum of moving Joe or Din. At that point I'm exploring whether a lesser second FA can be acquired at ~20M instead.

We're at $47.5mil in space now. Moving Din for a future pick would but us around $57mil. Stashing #27 or trading down frees up another couple of million. Getting about $6mil short may be striking range,
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#215 » by JoseRizal » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:58 am

TheNetsFan wrote:
LOUiS-D wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I'm still not convince that Harris will get a full max. He may, but that is not a definite.

Still between Kyrie and Tobi they're not going to take 13.4M worth of pay cuts. It'd come down to renounce DLo or a bare minimum of moving Joe or Din. At that point I'm exploring whether a lesser second FA can be acquired at ~20M instead.

We're at $47.5mil in space now. Moving Din for a future pick would but us around $57mil. Stashing #27 or trading down frees up another couple of million. Getting about $6mil short may be striking range,


The sad reality is that should we go the Kyrie/Tobias route we can retain D’lo but will lose a combination of Spencer + Joe or Spencer + Prince & Musa.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#216 » by Netaman » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:18 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
Netaman wrote:
I would be totally fine with signing Irving, signing someone like Tobias Harris (I don't think Philly will resign both him and Butler) and then going over the cap to resign Russell.


Same. That would basically create a GS-East.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#217 » by Netaman » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:25 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
Netaman wrote:I have no issue signing Kyrie and will be pumped if he's the guy we end up maxing. He's a very good player, if he's the best we can do with our $, terrific. But if we can get KD (or Leonard) without him I say keep the younger, cheaper, DLo.

"super teams" just haven't worked out, and JMO but it's a mark against him that he asked out of Cleveland, got his wish, went to a contender and that didn't work out either. Look no further than what Kawhi is doing in Toronto - in the NBA 1 player can most definitely elevate an organization. I'm not blaming Kyrie for all the ills of those 2 teams but it's just a fact that he's about to leave his 2nd org on bad terms. Russell came here and put the work in to become the player he is right now. Is he as good or as Kyrie? No. Can he continue improving and get that good? Maybe, maybe not. But in this case the difference isn't big enough for me to dump the horse that got me here. I'd rather keep building with him and use the extra $ to add another good rotation player in the front court.

There is no confusion between Kawhi and Kyrie. Nor KD and Kyrie. Or AD and Kyrie. Well maybe the latter, almost. He's more Lillard or Paul George than LeBron, obviously and for sure. But he's still a great player, in his prime, a lifelong Nets fan, etc.


Lillard is a perfectly reasonable comp in terms of how they've produced - the difference is that Lillard hasn't bounced around 2 teams. This is going to come off harsher than the reality, but there's a Marbury quality to Irving. Maybe it was just unfortunate circumstances in both CLE & BOS. Or maybe not. If he's the best we can do I have no issue rolling the dice. Giving up DLo is where I have some pause.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#218 » by Aussienet3 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:55 am

Keith Van Horn wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:
Netaman wrote:I don't know how many teams are gonna be fighting over Carroll or Dudley - I would be surprised if 1 of them aren't back as a depth guy for a minimum deal.

Dudley is a minimum guy next year. Carroll could get more, but I seem to recall an interview a while back where he stated it’s his wife’s turn to decide where he’s going to play.

Carroll will probably go somewhere he can play meaningful minutes. I think Dudley is back here on a 2 year vet min deal.


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Carroll will get another sweet deal. Even if we don't re-sign him. Dude has done an awesome job both in and out of our locker room. This is all due to the nets front office investment in a great team that works hard.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#219 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:05 pm

LOUiS-D wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:How much is Harris' max?

Same years of service as Kyrie. Entitled to 30% of the cap for 32.7M.


I would be stunned if he gets that from either us or Philadelphia.
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Re: WOJ BOMB: Nets trade Crabbe, #17, ‘20 1st to Hawks for Taurean Prince, 2021 2nd 

Post#220 » by TheNetsFan » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:06 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
LOUiS-D wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:How much is Harris' max?

Same years of service as Kyrie. Entitled to 30% of the cap for 32.7M.


I would be stunned if he gets that from either us or Philadelphia.

Somebody may do something completely crazy, but I see him as a 4 year, $100-120mil player. That would put a starting salary somewhere between $23mil-$28mil.

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