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Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD)

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Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#1 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:12 pm

Last thread exceeded 100 pages. Keep it going here.

Here were the last few posts from the Part 1:

Netaman wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
KAT is an empty stats player who gets his at everyone elses expense, plays 0 defense, and has a terrible work ethic, Kyrie is roughly infinity plus 1 times better


What exactly has Kyrie done to prove he's not an empty stats player himself? There are only about 10 guys in the NBA who have proven they impact the game way beyond their stats. Those guys are in the MVP convo year after year and carried teams to the playoffs or taken their teams to a new level not previously attained. I'm not saying Kyrie can't do that, just that he hasn't. And that he's also routinely missed games - twice requiring knee surgeries that forced him to miss the postseason in last 5 years.

The question isn't whether he's got great ability or worth a max - he's a bonafide all star and he is worth a max. It's about where he ranks among the subset of max players who aren't in that top tier. That second tier is full of stat stuffers but with rare abilities that in the right team environment can be championship caliber. They are projections on the hope that they will take that step up to the elite tier in the right situation the way Harden and the Greek freak did.

If this offseason was just add kyrie or don't add him, I'd imagine everyone would be thrilled to add him because he'd instantly be the best player on the team. But it's not. The question this offseason is similarly how to rank him in relation to the other max options available, as well as how much more value he'll produce over the next several years compared to DLo. I'm less bullish on him than you are. I see some shades of both Marbury + DWill.




Prokorov wrote:
Netaman wrote:What exactly has Kyrie done to prove he's not an empty stats player himself?


1) won a title as a top 2 player on his team, hitting the biggest shot of the series, beating a 73-win team
2) Lead a team to 55+ wins as its best player, and a top 2 seed in the conference

KAT has done neither. or come even close.

The question isn't whether he's got great ability or worth a max - he's a bonafide all star and he is worth a max. It's about where he ranks among the subset of max players who aren't in that top tier. That second tier is full of stat stuffers but with rare abilities that in the right team environment can be championship caliber. They are projections on the hope that they will take that step up to the elite tier in the right situation the way Harden and the Greek freak did.


he is a top 12 player. period. some years he has been top 8.
If this offseason was just add kyrie or don't add him, I'd imagine everyone would be thrilled to add him because he'd instantly be the best player on the team. But it's not. The question this offseason is similarly how to rank him in relation to the other max options available, as well as how much more value he'll produce over the next several years compared to DLo. I'm less bullish on him than you are. I see some shades of both Marbury + DWill.


Kyrie is clearly behind durant and kawhi. but thats the only 2 FA's he is behind. if you factor age then no one below him is even close. he is signifcantly better then Russell, who i love and want to stay.



vincecarter4pres wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Netaman wrote:What exactly has Kyrie done to prove he's not an empty stats player himself?


1) won a title as a top 2 player on his team, hitting the biggest shot of the series, beating a 73-win team
2) Lead a team to 55+ wins as its best player, and a top 2 seed in the conference

KAT has done neither. or come even close.

The question isn't whether he's got great ability or worth a max - he's a bonafide all star and he is worth a max. It's about where he ranks among the subset of max players who aren't in that top tier. That second tier is full of stat stuffers but with rare abilities that in the right team environment can be championship caliber. They are projections on the hope that they will take that step up to the elite tier in the right situation the way Harden and the Greek freak did.


he is a top 12 player. period. some years he has been top 8.
If this offseason was just add kyrie or don't add him, I'd imagine everyone would be thrilled to add him because he'd instantly be the best player on the team. But it's not. The question this offseason is similarly how to rank him in relation to the other max options available, as well as how much more value he'll produce over the next several years compared to DLo. I'm less bullish on him than you are. I see some shades of both Marbury + DWill.


Kyrie is clearly behind durant and kawhi. but thats the only 2 FA's he is behind. if you factor age then no one below him is even close. he is signifcantly better then Russell, who i love and want to stay.

Yeah I struggle to name more than 10 players better than him. There are another 3 or 4 who have a completely legitimate argument because they're basically his equal, but 10 or 11 better than him is about right.

LeBron
Kawhi
Durant
Curry
Harden
Giannis
Embiid
AD
PG

All definitely better.

Jokic is probably better.

Lillard, Westbrook and Jimmy Butler all have legit arguments for sure.

But after that you drop an entire tier. He is clearly in the above grouping.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#2 » by IceManBK1 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:57 pm

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Hope they ship him to the knicks, if not us. Hate the Lakers.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#3 » by Keith Van Horn » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:39 pm

I think if we're going for Kyrie, we need to make sure we bring Durant or Davis in too.

I had been fine with with DLo + Harris or Butler path too and just build around that. But with Marks being so aggressive in dumping Crabbe it makes me think the Kyrie + another big name is happening.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#4 » by IceManBK1 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:48 pm

i hope we can get the suns involved in this trade..DW+J Harris to Suns. Suns #6, Levert, Allen, Kurucs+our 27th and future protected 1st to pelicans. Pelicans sign and trade Randle(12-15 mil)+Davis to us.

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Dlo
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Randle
AD
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#5 » by JoseRizal » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:17 pm

Breaking News! Nets not on Randle’s list of preferred teams. - JOW
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#6 » by Netaman » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:25 pm

I think KD & Leonard are the top 2 targets, with KD being the more likely one. Also think Marks' preference is to improve with 1 of those guys via FA vs. gut the roster for AD. I'm sure he'd be willing to swoop in and make a trade like the Kawhi deal last summer if NO can't work out a trade with teams he wants to extend with long term, but I'm guessing the Knicks will be all in and willing to give up whatever NO wants (and Marks won't be).

I think the Kyrie talk is possible, but his I suspect his camp is driving the narrative more because he wants in here. I don't think he's Marks' top priority, nor do I think Marks would renounce DLo and let him walk for nothing.

My predictions as of today would be 1 of KD/Leonard going to LAC, the other coming here. Most likely Leonard going home to LAC and Durant changing things up heading East. Lakers and Knicks each offer up everything possible for AD, flip a coin for whoever wins out (I think Lakers have better players to offer). Whichever team doesn't get AD signs Kyrie and/or Butler. Harris resigns in Philly for max.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#7 » by Paradise » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:13 am

.....Damn.

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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#8 » by DarkXaero » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:14 am

Looks like our KD hopes are over...
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#9 » by Netaman » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:18 am

Twitterdocs say it's achillies. I doubt that changes much about his FA decision though to be honest. Pretty sure everyone will still try to max him out but who knows. I'd still gladly max him out.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#10 » by TheNetsFan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:30 am

If it's an achilles tear, we should stay away. He'll be out at least 6 months, possibly much more. He'll take time to round back into shape, and then he'll be 32.

Kawhi is, was & always will be priority 1, but also seeming impossible. I'd rather go with a DLo-Tobias-Kyrie/Butler combo over KD at this point. Tobias+Kyrie would be one of the lesser immediate options, but at least they're young & can grow with the rest of the team.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#11 » by Netaman » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:38 am

1 of the other docs said he doesn't think it's a full tear because he was flexing his foot while he was on the ground. So I guess we'll just wait to hear.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#12 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:38 am

I think Kyrie and Tobias Harris or Jimmy Butler should be the targets now. Achilles' tears aren't some walk in the park.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#13 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:40 am

Netaman wrote:1 of the other docs said he doesn't think it's a full tear because he was flexing his foot while he was on the ground. So I guess we'll just wait to hear.


its hard to say without an MRI.

The Warriors rushed that man back and this is the end result. The Nets training staff and coaching staff would have never allowed that.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#14 » by TheNetsFan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:50 am

If the news is bad on KD's injury, don't be surprised if it leaks that AD only wants the Lakers (not Knicks) or adds teams like the Clippers, Nets, Philly or Portland. I think he wants to have a chance to be on a contender, at the Lakers/Knicks story is to latch on to Lebron or pre-injury KD.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#15 » by LOUiS-D » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:55 am

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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#16 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:07 am

Yeah, it affects free agency, but right now I just feel really bad for him.

The first time he got injured, it looked like an Achilles tear. Even the videos of him wearing an ice pack show how low the ice pack is on his leg. It made you think "Man, that looks like an achilles."

Him re-injuring or worsening his injury was on my mind from the tip. Sadly, I'm not surprised at the result given the fact that they weren't even going to have him on a minutes restriction.

He had a simple turn when he first injured it, why wouldn't a simple move on an non-recovered calf/achilles strain do the same, if not make it worse.

I did not like his decision to join GSW, but no one can question whether KD has heart for the game. It absolutely sucks that this could affect his free agency and career long term.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#17 » by LOUiS-D » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:17 am

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more or less official now. he'll probably return to the warriors.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#18 » by IceManBK1 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:18 am

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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#19 » by MGrand15 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:54 am

This is exactly why our team is so cautious with injuries no matter how impatient the player is. Durant was clearly not ready.

Something like this happened to Kyrie with the Cavs and I'm pretty sure that's where the relationship really soured. They didn't publicly say anything but they pressured him to play through an injury.
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Re: Pt. II – The 2019 Free Agency Thread (Kyrie, KD, Kawhi, AD) 

Post#20 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:44 am

MGrand15 wrote:This is exactly why our team is so cautious with injuries no matter how impatient the player is. Durant was clearly not ready.

Something like this happened to Kyrie with the Cavs and I'm pretty sure that's where the relationship really soured. They didn't publicly say anything but they pressured him to play through an injury.

I know everyone wants to jump on the Warriors medical staff (and justifiably so), but it seems there were at least 3 parties involved in the decision to allow him to play:1) the team, 2) KD himself, 3) Medical staff.

There were reports before and after Game 4 that the both the team and KD seemed to be at odds with the medical staff and their refusal to clear him to play.

I have a feeling that the medical staff didn't want him to play, but the team as well as KD himself really pushed to allow it to happen. It feels like they turned a blind eye and said "KD is not ready to go, but I won't stop you if you're this insistent on playing." And unfortunately, this ended with the result that everyone feared.

When I heard KD was going to play, I felt uneasy for this exact reason.

I understand why KD would want to play: You're on the cusp of winning another championship and really solidifying your team's status as a dynasty. To come back from 3-1 would be such an awesome narrative and would actually bring together all of the GSW fans & KD fans who fight over who's the better player and whether GSW is Curry's or Steph's team. This would really have been a team championship in which Curry led the charge for the team since KD went down, but Steph needs KD to beat the Raptors. This would basically be a perfect ending for everyone.

At the same time, you could easily worsen whatever injury you sustained (whether it's actually a calf strain or achilles' related) and not only lose the series, but also jeopardize your long-term health and therefore money making ability for your career.

Not even the most ardent Curry stan should question KD's heart and motives after tonight's game. The Warriors clearly needed KD and he tried to come back for the good of the team, even though it wouldn't have been for his own personal good.

I'm really sad for him. It's hard for me to even talk about free agency, because it feels like he's being treated like a commodity. Yesterday, he was object of everyone's desire; today, most do not want him to consider him at all. It sucks for him as a human. I feel for him.

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