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LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never?

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What Should Marks Do?

EXTEND CARIS NOW (5yrs, $120mil)
15
33%
EXTEND CARIS LATER (5yrs, $90-180mil)
8
17%
TRADE / QO / S&T CARIS
5
11%
EXTEND TAUREAN NOW (5yrs, $80mil)
3
7%
EXTEND TAUREAN LATER (5yrs, $60-120mil)
7
15%
TRADE / QO / S&T TAUREAN
8
17%
 
Total votes: 46

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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#101 » by Claud » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:08 pm

My only concern with giving Caris a big deal is so far he's been injury prone in his young career.

Talent wise he is off the charts and has potential to become top 25-30 player in the NBA during the next 4-5 years. Penny/Jimmy Butler/Joe Johnson hybrid/Tmac

Caris is Marks' and Kenny's guy there's no doubt in my mind he will remain a Net one way or another.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#102 » by kamaze » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:41 pm

Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
he is a wing/forward with us. he is nothing like allen. he isnt a screen and roll player or a rim runner. he handles the ball wall and is an end to end player. he is closer to trevor booker. a guy who will get a rebound and go coast to coast. unlike allen he is already a volume three point shooter.

they drafted him because of how well kurucs worked out and how similar the 2 are

there are no similarities between claxton and allen as a player. its a lazy analysis in that quote. that person has clearly not seen much of claxton


Kenny Atkinson likes to describe as the modern NBA center — long, athletic, ready to defend the rim on defense, operate on the perimeter and roll to the basket on offense.


So Claxton isn't 6'11? He's not athletic like Allen? He's not a shot blocker? He shot 3's better than Allen did in college and the center taking 3's is part of the offense...This is just you being stubborn for no reason.


dwayne wade was a shot blocker. would you compare him to allen?
Dirk was 6'11" would you compare him to allen

-when have you ever seen Jarrett allen bring the ball up court and initiate the pick and roll as the ball handler?
-When have you seen allen grab a rebound, cross a guy up at mid court, and finish coast to coast?
-when have you ever seen Allen drive to his off hand then take a step-back 18 foot shot?
-when have you ever seen allen take a top of the k ey or wing three off the dribble?
-when have you ever seen allen catch at 18+ feet out and beat his man off the dribble drive for a lay-in dunk?

these are not things allen does but things that Claxton did on the regular at UG. MAybe they play Claxton at center when they want to go 5-out like the rockets, but he is certainly alot more similar to trevor booker and kurucs then he is to allen or jordan


Dwayne Wade's a shooting guard wtf do you bring him up? Dirk will be a HOF 7 footer for scoring of jump shots but he checks of 3 out of 5 skills on the list.
long, athletic, ready to defend the rim on defense, operate on the perimeter and roll to the basket on offense.


Remember Dirk was a power forward mainly in his career, he didn't have the physicality or toughness to play as a center.

Nick Claxton is more mobile and a better ball handler than Jarrett that's all it is. And he did bring the ball up in summer league trying out new things. Being able to bring the ball up is one of the things the coach expects from a modern NBA center.
Who's going to sacrifice for their teammates here? Defense? Unselfishness?

I'll make you a Sig bet the Franks / 36 numbers this coming season will be as good as Smith's, or better.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#103 » by kamaze » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:43 pm

Moved to the Nic Claxton thread.
Who's going to sacrifice for their teammates here? Defense? Unselfishness?

I'll make you a Sig bet the Franks / 36 numbers this coming season will be as good as Smith's, or better.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#104 » by Prokorov » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:41 am

Paradise wrote:
I mean I don’t understand the idea it would be crazy to pay him as a max player when he’s literally primed for an all-star breakout regular season once again after proving himself in the playoffs.

Playoff Caris is worth $90-$100m. Certainly more valuable than an overpaid Zach Lavine and Aaron Gordon in a seven game series.


Playoff Caris is getting way too much consideration. its a 5 game sample of something he will likely never sustain in the regular season. in that sixers series Caris shot 44% from midrange, 47% from three and 53% from the field and 62TS%. those are all extreme outliers. something you can see in extremely small samples. not something you can project ove an 82 game series. if you want to give Caris kudos for "stepping it up in the playoffs" im down with that but the idea that Caris is that guy in that series next year is way off base.

he just isnt that good of a shooter:

Last year he shot 43% from the field, 39% midrange, 28% on long jumpers 31% from three and 69% from the free throw line for 50 TS%

for his career he is 43% from the field 39% from midrange, 35% on long jumpers, 32% from three and 70% from the line for 53TS%

if he is going to be a 20ppg guy all-star worthy of a contract north of $100 million he needs to become an abover avg shooter with above avg efficiency.

also, Zach LAvine, if anything, is under rated. people talk about caris being a 20/5/5 guy... lavine is already a 24/5/5 guy on who shoots 37% from deep on high volume and gets to the FT line 6 times a game. if Caris can be 80% of lavine he WILL get that big contract
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#105 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:49 pm

Are there no limits to the depth of your hot-takery?

LaVine is a fun player to watch and an electric scorer, but as far as wins and losses, Zach can't hold Caris' jockstrap. There's this thing called defense; LeVert is good while Zach is one of the worst in the league.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#106 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:23 am

I think we should just wait to see what happens. The hope is that LeVert can become more consistent, that in itself will get him paid.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#107 » by kamaze » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:51 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:Are there no limits to the depth of your hot-takery?

LaVine is a fun player to watch and an electric scorer, but as far as wins and losses, Zach can't hold Caris' jockstrap. There's this thing called defense; LeVert is good while Zach is one of the worst in the league.


Caris shot 44% from midrange, 47% from three and 53% from the field
in the playoffs where it matters more but he'd rather go by his season stats for some reason. The playoffs; what every team strives to make, the 2nd season; matter more it's much more than a "five game sample".
Who's going to sacrifice for their teammates here? Defense? Unselfishness?

I'll make you a Sig bet the Franks / 36 numbers this coming season will be as good as Smith's, or better.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#108 » by Prokorov » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:25 am

kamaze wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:Are there no limits to the depth of your hot-takery?

LaVine is a fun player to watch and an electric scorer, but as far as wins and losses, Zach can't hold Caris' jockstrap. There's this thing called defense; LeVert is good while Zach is one of the worst in the league.


Caris shot 44% from midrange, 47% from three and 53% from the field
in the playoffs where it matters more but he'd rather go by his season stats for some reason. The playoffs; what every team strives to make, the 2nd season; matter more it's much more than a "five game sample".


only morons would go by a 5 game sample. if you went by a 5 game sample we should cut joe harris cause he was awful in the playoffs.

what levert did vs. philly is not sustainable over 82 games. he isnt going to shoot 47% from three. you pay a guy on his entire body of work, not a 5 game sample just because its the playoffs. hell it wasnt even a playoff series we won.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#109 » by kamaze » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:50 am

Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:Are there no limits to the depth of your hot-takery?

LaVine is a fun player to watch and an electric scorer, but as far as wins and losses, Zach can't hold Caris' jockstrap. There's this thing called defense; LeVert is good while Zach is one of the worst in the league.


Caris shot 44% from midrange, 47% from three and 53% from the field
in the playoffs where it matters more but he'd rather go by his season stats for some reason. The playoffs; what every team strives to make, the 2nd season; matter more it's much more than a "five game sample".


only morons would go by a 5 game sample. if you went by a 5 game sample we should cut joe harris cause he was awful in the playoffs.

what levert did vs. philly is not sustainable over 82 games. he isnt going to shoot 47% from three. you pay a guy on his entire body of work, not a 5 game sample just because its the playoffs. hell it wasnt even a playoff series we won.


It's the Playoffs the stakes are higher, the defense is better. Teams are remembered for what they do in the post season more than the regular season. The regular season results in the team's jockey for position for the playoffs if you disagree you're the moron.
Who's going to sacrifice for their teammates here? Defense? Unselfishness?

I'll make you a Sig bet the Franks / 36 numbers this coming season will be as good as Smith's, or better.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#110 » by Prokorov » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:05 am

kamaze wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:
in the playoffs where it matters more but he'd rather go by his season stats for some reason. The playoffs; what every team strives to make, the 2nd season; matter more it's much more than a "five game sample".


only morons would go by a 5 game sample. if you went by a 5 game sample we should cut joe harris cause he was awful in the playoffs.

what levert did vs. philly is not sustainable over 82 games. he isnt going to shoot 47% from three. you pay a guy on his entire body of work, not a 5 game sample just because its the playoffs. hell it wasnt even a playoff series we won.


It's the Playoffs the stakes are higher, the defense is better. Teams are remembered for what they do in the post season more than the regular season. The regular season results in the team's jockey for position for the playoffs if you disagree you're the moron.


again, you dont pay a player based on what they do in 5 games. if that was true then D'angello russell wouldnt be on a max deal righ tnow and joe harris would be cut by the the nets.

since you have said multiple times you dont understand the cap and have proved time and time again you know little about how the NBA works, you should speak in absolutles on something you are incredibly ignorant to

only the worst GMs pay players based on 5 games in a LOSING effort when siad player is coming off an injury plagued season where shot the ball extremely poor
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#111 » by ecuhus1981 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:10 pm

Stand down, Prok.

No one advocates paying Caris based on 5 games. This is another straw-man argument from you. LeVert has done plenty outside of those 5 games game to merit consideration for an extension.

YET AND STILL, among 5-game sample sizes, none matter more than a playoff series. It's not easy to bring your best to the biggest stage; it hardly means everything, and you would be a fool to think it means nothing.

I look forward to your reply where you twist my words into a Strawman that you feel brave enough to combat. Good day, sir.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#112 » by kamaze » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:12 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:Stand down, Prok.

No one advocates paying Caris based on 5 games. This is another straw-man argument from you. LeVert has done plenty outside of those 5 games game to merit consideration for an extension.

YET AND STILL, among 5-game sample sizes, none matter more than a playoff series. It's not easy to bring your best to the biggest stage; it hardly means everything, and you would be a fool to think it means nothing.

I look forward to your reply where you twist my words into a Strawman that you feel brave enough to combat. Good day, sir.


I've been watching the NBA for years and only on this forum by a few (I believe it's more than just Prok who called the playoffs a 5 game sample).

Reply to him and not to me please I said what I needed to say. There's no need for this to turn into name calling etc.
Who's going to sacrifice for their teammates here? Defense? Unselfishness?

I'll make you a Sig bet the Franks / 36 numbers this coming season will be as good as Smith's, or better.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#113 » by Prokorov » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:18 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:Stand down, Prok.

No one advocates paying Caris based on 5 games. This is another straw-man argument from you. LeVert has done plenty outside of those 5 games game to merit consideration for an extension.

YET AND STILL, among 5-game sample sizes, none matter more than a playoff series. It's not easy to bring your best to the biggest stage; it hardly means everything, and you would be a fool to think it means nothing.

I look forward to your reply where you twist my words into a Strawman that you feel brave enough to combat. Good day, sir.


Kamaze legit says explicity we should... but he is also a low key troll so
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#114 » by Prokorov » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:22 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:Stand down, Prok.

No one advocates paying Caris based on 5 games. This is another straw-man argument from you. LeVert has done plenty outside of those 5 games game to merit consideration for an extension.

YET AND STILL, among 5-game sample sizes, none matter more than a playoff series. It's not easy to bring your best to the biggest stage; it hardly means everything, and you would be a fool to think it means nothing.

I look forward to your reply where you twist my words into a Strawman that you feel brave enough to combat. Good day, sir.


in the scheme of a new contract the 5 games mean nothing. him showing he is healthy has more weight then his playoff performance. if he put us on his back and carried us to an upset over philly and going 6 or 7 vs the raptors maybe that says something. but 4 good games in a series we were nearly swept?

no, a smart GM doesnt care about that. a Smart GM looks at the 150 regular season games with an emphasis on this past season. he looks at the injuries and factors in the risk tolerance against injuries of a 4 or 5 year deal. he looks at the shooting and talks with his people about the probability of turning caris into a consistent shooter. he looks at similar players whose age/injuries/production/efficiency match Caris and offers 75-100% of that based on the comparison

the 5 games should not play a big role. recency bias gets GMs fired. so does romantacizing hot shooting over 5 games in a series we got stomped in
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


Timestamp: July 21, 2017
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#115 » by ecuhus1981 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:31 pm

Prokorov wrote:in the scheme of a new contract the 5 games mean nothing. him showing he is healthy has more weight then his playoff performance. if he put us on his back and carried us to an upset over philly and going 6 or 7 vs the raptors maybe that says something. but 4 good games in a series we were nearly swept?

no, a smart GM doesnt care about that. a Smart GM looks at the 150 regular season games with an emphasis on this past season. he looks at the injuries and factors in the risk tolerance against injuries of a 4 or 5 year deal. he looks at the shooting and talks with his people about the probability of turning caris into a consistent shooter. he looks at similar players whose age/injuries/production/efficiency match Caris and offers 75-100% of that based on the comparison

the 5 games should not play a big role. recency bias gets GMs fired. so does romantacizing hot shooting over 5 games in a series we got stomped in

We'll agree to disagree on what in the PHI series would have persuaded you to think differently about Caris.

Of course LeVert's health and his entire body of work are bigger determinants than 5 playoff games in extension talks. No one's arguing with you there. Based on Caris' 168 NBA regular-season games, he merits consideration for an early extension. For a team like Brooklyn who will be skirting the luxury tax as they contend for a title in future, betting early and believing in his health and our training staff could pay major dividends.

Has CLV proven more than Myles Turner did before his extension (4yrs, $72mil)? I'd say no. More than Larry Nance (4yrs, $45mil)? I believe so. If we split the middle with a 4-year, $60mil offer, and Caris accepts, I'll be thrilled. However,by the time the extension pays out the cap will have jumped 15% in the 2 years since those 2 aforementioned renewals. Caris' camp may rightly demand an inflation adjustment, or more. I just don't want to alienate LeVert with a lowball offer, especially when he's poised to make a big jump given the opportunities available before KD returns. He's already shown enough that even if he doesn't ball out this year, he'll be a big fish next summer in a shallow pond of FA's. We have RFA rights, but we'll save ourselves the pain of matching a rich offer by securing his services now.

We've probably beaten this dead horse enough, let's see what if anything materializes over the next few months.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#116 » by TheNetsFan » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:11 am

18% escalating or equivalent tends to be the magic number on post rookie deals for guys that have shown bright flashes with some red flags: Curry, Oladipo, Gordon, LaVine, etc. That’s the ceiling for LeVert in my opinion, and works out to about 4/$95mil if based on this year’s cap. I could see Prok’s 75% of that as the floor. That would be 4/$66. If LeVert gets extended before the season, I would assume it’s on the higher end (15-18%). If his worst case in FA is a full MLE, the lower end isn’t enough of a premium to warrant passing on UFA.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#117 » by kamaze » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:48 am

Prokorov wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:Stand down, Prok.

No one advocates paying Caris based on 5 games. This is another straw-man argument from you. LeVert has done plenty outside of those 5 games game to merit consideration for an extension.

YET AND STILL, among 5-game sample sizes, none matter more than a playoff series. It's not easy to bring your best to the biggest stage; it hardly means everything, and you would be a fool to think it means nothing.

I look forward to your reply where you twist my words into a Strawman that you feel brave enough to combat. Good day, sir.


Kamaze legit says explicity we should... but he is also a low key troll so


:lol: You're act is old you need some new lines. :lol:
Who's going to sacrifice for their teammates here? Defense? Unselfishness?

I'll make you a Sig bet the Franks / 36 numbers this coming season will be as good as Smith's, or better.
-Ignitowsky

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