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LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never?

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What Should Marks Do?

EXTEND CARIS NOW (5yrs, $120mil)
15
33%
EXTEND CARIS LATER (5yrs, $90-180mil)
8
17%
TRADE / QO / S&T CARIS
5
11%
EXTEND TAUREAN NOW (5yrs, $80mil)
3
7%
EXTEND TAUREAN LATER (5yrs, $60-120mil)
7
15%
TRADE / QO / S&T TAUREAN
8
17%
 
Total votes: 46

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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#21 » by ecuhus1981 » Thu Jul 4, 2019 11:13 am

TheNetsFan wrote:Just like I said with DLo before this past season, the monetary equivalent of an escalating deal starting at 18% of the cap tends to be pretty standard for guys who have flashed potential but have had some injury concerns or flaws in their game.

Yeah, I can see a number around there.

18% of this year's cap is $19.6mil. With annual 8% raises, the sums in subsequent years would be 21.1, 22.9, 24.7 and 26.7. That's 4 years, $88.3mil or 5 years, $115mil.

I'll be interested to see how Boston handles this situation with Jaylen Brown. He's not quite the defender and not nearly the playmaker that CLV is, but has proven scoring ability and elite athleticism. Like us, BOS will not have capspace next offseason, so they wouldn't be risking flexibility by signing him early. Anyway, Brown's RFA cap hold will be about $19.5mil, similar to his probable starting salary.

I think that their handling of him will inform us on where the market stands of Caris, and how we should proceed. Many times, the deal doesn't happen until the last few days in October before the deadline. I suppose we'll know more then.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#22 » by jbeachboy » Thu Jul 4, 2019 4:17 pm

only if its team friendly deals, we are already struggling with kyrie and kd making near max deals.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#23 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Jul 4, 2019 6:34 pm

jbeachboy wrote:only if its team friendly deals, we are already struggling with kyrie and kd making near max deals.


I'm fairly certain that if paying the luxury tax is the cost of fielding a championship level team, Tsai and Prokhorov will do it.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#24 » by DarkXaero » Thu Jul 4, 2019 10:54 pm

I'm definitely not re-signing Prince early, he has to prove himself here first. As for Levert, it depends on whether we can get him to agree to a team friendly extension, like Dinwiddie. If Levert can agree to $12-15 mill/season, I consider that a really good deal for us.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#25 » by Keith Van Horn » Fri Jul 5, 2019 7:41 pm

I'd like to resign him soon but the injury stuff and just him staying on the floor is concerning. Like DX said if we can agree to the $12-15 a season range, I'd be down for that sooner than later. I really like Caris and his game is perfect for the NBA today. But we do need to see just some consistency with him staying on the floor and producing a little bit better.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#26 » by DowJones » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:13 pm

Are you guys going to match a max offer for Caris? I am sure Cleveland will offer him the max if he stays healthy and has a decent year. The Cavs will have tons of cap-space and we now have his college coach.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#27 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jul 8, 2019 8:48 am

DowJones wrote:Are you guys going to match a max offer for Caris? I am sure Cleveland will offer him the max if he stays healthy and has a decent year. The Cavs will have tons of cap-space and we now have his college coach.

And Caris is from Ohio, so there's that angle as well.

If he has a healthy season, I think just about everyone knows that he'll get max contract offers from other teams. There's very little doubt in my book.

Even if someone doesn't like Caris, the fact that he could be used as a nice asset in a trade down the road makes extending him a no brainer. The only question is about the money. I think the Nets would easily offer at $17-20mil/yr with no injury protection clauses and a near-max contract with significant injury protection clauses.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#28 » by Fiktion » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:02 am

Anyone who watched Caris this year should recognize a budding star.

His season numbers are deflated by his return from injury. He looked like the legitimate MIP before he went down, and he was arguably our best player in the playoffs.

If we have a chance to buy (or rather extend) low, now is the time to do it. I'd do it for anything substantially lower than the max.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#29 » by drchaos » Mon Jul 8, 2019 3:16 pm

DowJones wrote:Are you guys going to match a max offer for Caris? I am sure Cleveland will offer him the max if he stays healthy and has a decent year. The Cavs will have tons of cap-space and we now have his college coach.


All the more reason to extend him now before the season starts.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#30 » by Prokorov » Mon Jul 8, 2019 3:48 pm

DowJones wrote:Are you guys going to match a max offer for Caris? I am sure Cleveland will offer him the max if he stays healthy and has a decent year. The Cavs will have tons of cap-space and we now have his college coach.


Hell No. thats like instant one of the leagues worst contracts. i love caris, but 30 million for caris is absurd
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#31 » by Prokorov » Mon Jul 8, 2019 3:54 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
DowJones wrote:Are you guys going to match a max offer for Caris? I am sure Cleveland will offer him the max if he stays healthy and has a decent year. The Cavs will have tons of cap-space and we now have his college coach.

And Caris is from Ohio, so there's that angle as well.

If he has a healthy season, I think just about everyone knows that he'll get max contract offers from other teams. There's very little doubt in my book.

Even if someone doesn't like Caris, the fact that he could be used as a nice asset in a trade down the road makes extending him a no brainer. The only question is about the money. I think the Nets would easily offer at $17-20mil/yr with no injury protection clauses and a near-max contract with significant injury protection clauses.


i cant see more then 17-18 million on an extension and more likely 14-15 million. he isnt a 20 year old where he has elite ceiling left although he is obviouslystill young enough to improve. he hasnt stayed healthy for 6 years going back to college. and on a team that is heavily invested in efficiency and shooting he was awful from a 3point shotoing and efficiency standpoint last year.

i know marks has been irrespnsbile with big contracts to role players, and caris is one of our own, but i dont think you can give huge money to a guy base on 14 games to start a year were he played good but not all-star level basketball.

you would really be paying him for 2 games to start the year and 5 game series vs a playoff team who couldnt stop anyone who was worth a damn at getting to the rim.

Also, no one is throwing 4/120 at levert. that is absurd. he would need to take an enormous step forward. i think middleton is the baseline for a role type #2.5 to get a max. and his numbers blow caris out of the water and he is solid defensively AND he doesnt have health concerns
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#32 » by Prokorov » Mon Jul 8, 2019 3:55 pm

Fiktion wrote:Anyone who watched Caris this year should recognize a budding star.

His season numbers are deflated by his return from injury. He looked like the legitimate MIP before he went down, and he was arguably our best player in the playoffs.

If we have a chance to buy (or rather extend) low, now is the time to do it. I'd do it for anything substantially lower than the max.


as i showed earlier, even pre-injury levert didnt have great numbers
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#33 » by SpeedyG » Mon Jul 8, 2019 5:15 pm

Prokorov wrote:
DowJones wrote:Are you guys going to match a max offer for Caris? I am sure Cleveland will offer him the max if he stays healthy and has a decent year. The Cavs will have tons of cap-space and we now have his college coach.


Hell No. thats like instant one of the leagues worst contracts. i love caris, but 30 million for caris is absurd
Do you, really? Could have fooled all of us based on your comments all season long (here and at GB)

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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#34 » by Prokorov » Mon Jul 8, 2019 6:56 pm

SpeedyG wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
DowJones wrote:Are you guys going to match a max offer for Caris? I am sure Cleveland will offer him the max if he stays healthy and has a decent year. The Cavs will have tons of cap-space and we now have his college coach.


Hell No. thats like instant one of the leagues worst contracts. i love caris, but 30 million for caris is absurd
Do you, really? Could have fooled all of us based on your comments all season long (here and at GB)

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yes, i just dont drastically over rate him. its funny because 2 years ago some people wanted him traded/benched because he had an awful 2 month stretch shooting to start the year and me and MDB where the only ones to really defend him. now its like everyone thiks he is some start in the making based on... 2 regular season games to start the season and 5 playoff games to end it. ignoring like the other 50 games.

I mean, if someone suggested that like, someone on the knicks with Leverts age/history/production be a future all-star or max player we would laugh them off the forum.

14/4/4 on 50.9 TS% and 31% from three is not a max player... no matter what he did in 5 playoff games.

and for those who want to say those numbers are skewed by injury, his pre-injury numbers are posted above by me, they werent special either.

Khris middleton is basically the bare minimum of what it takes to get a max deal. and he has had 4 consecutive healthy seasons better then anything levert has done on significantly better shooting, efficiency, and health.

if levert posts a 20/5/4 season in 70+ games on 36% or more from deep and 56 TS% or better then maybe we can talk about something approach the max for him. he hasnt done that, let alone done it voer a full year let alone done it over multiple years.

it would be worse then any contract marks has offered out to extend levert on anything near the max, because he is extremely unlikely to play his way to max deal and teams are unlikely to offer him one at his age with his injuries and his lack of shooting.

we are MUCH better off rolling the dice. if he does prove us wrong an earn the max then at least we can say we have a third all-star.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#35 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Jul 9, 2019 5:58 am

Prokorov wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
DowJones wrote:Are you guys going to match a max offer for Caris? I am sure Cleveland will offer him the max if he stays healthy and has a decent year. The Cavs will have tons of cap-space and we now have his college coach.

And Caris is from Ohio, so there's that angle as well.

If he has a healthy season, I think just about everyone knows that he'll get max contract offers from other teams. There's very little doubt in my book.

Even if someone doesn't like Caris, the fact that he could be used as a nice asset in a trade down the road makes extending him a no brainer. The only question is about the money. I think the Nets would easily offer at $17-20mil/yr with no injury protection clauses and a near-max contract with significant injury protection clauses.


i cant see more then 17-18 million on an extension and more likely 14-15 million. he isnt a 20 year old where he has elite ceiling left although he is obviouslystill young enough to improve. he hasnt stayed healthy for 6 years going back to college. and on a team that is heavily invested in efficiency and shooting he was awful from a 3point shotoing and efficiency standpoint last year.

i know marks has been irrespnsbile with big contracts to role players, and caris is one of our own, but i dont think you can give huge money to a guy base on 14 games to start a year were he played good but not all-star level basketball.

you would really be paying him for 2 games to start the year and 5 game series vs a playoff team who couldnt stop anyone who was worth a damn at getting to the rim.

Also, no one is throwing 4/120 at levert. that is absurd. he would need to take an enormous step forward. i think middleton is the baseline for a role type #2.5 to get a max. and his numbers blow caris out of the water and he is solid defensively AND he doesnt have health concerns

Has there ever been a non-minimum/exception contract that Marks hasn’t overpaid for?

Any big money player gets AT LEAST the upper bracket of what we all expect and usually goes above it. Based on his own history, it’s obvious to me that Marks will (over)pay Caris.

And if he’s actually healthy and does what expected of him, some team will max him. Next year’s group of free agents(outside of AD) is nowhere near as good as this year’s.

If there’s any one player other teams have called the Nets about over the years, it’s Caris. IF he’s healthy (and that’s a big IF), he will get paid; and if not by us, another team.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#36 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Jul 9, 2019 6:08 am

Prokorov wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Hell No. thats like instant one of the leagues worst contracts. i love caris, but 30 million for caris is absurd
Do you, really? Could have fooled all of us based on your comments all season long (here and at GB)

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yes, i just dont drastically over rate him. its funny because 2 years ago some people wanted him traded/benched because he had an awful 2 month stretch shooting to start the year and me and MDB where the only ones to really defend him.

Please link the threads where this happened. At best, this seems hyperbolic. The idea that you and MDB were the only two who were defending Caris (who if anything has been referred to as the board’s golden boy) over and against the rest of the board is highly dubious.

I’ve never wanted him traded.

When he was first drafted, I and a few others were throwing around the name Penny Hardaway’s name based on his slender frame and point forward abilities displayed in college. Others posters (correctly) checked us and reminded us of how good Penny was and that Caris shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence, even if we’re just referring to body type and similar on-court positions/roles.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#37 » by Prokorov » Tue Jul 9, 2019 10:09 am

NyCeEvO wrote:Has there ever been a non-minimum/exception contract that Marks hasn’t overpaid for?


Harris and Dinwiddie both were paid solid value.

Any big money player gets AT LEAST the upper bracket of what we all expect and usually goes above it. Based on his own history, it’s obvious to me that Marks will (over)pay Caris.


Caris is not a big money player. "what we all expect of him".... if that means what the nets board expects its unrealsitic and not in line with anything he has actually every produced. people talk of him like a star despite pretty average numbers for the volume pre-injury and really poor numbers post injury.

unless you want to pay him based on a 5-game sample in a series we lost 4-1 then he should be nowhere close to 20 million. no one in league history, who posted what levert did, even pre-injury has gotten near max money

And if he’s actually healthy and does what expected of him, some team will max him. Next year’s group of free agents(outside of AD) is nowhere near as good as this year’s.


if he plays like he did last year he will 10000000000% not get anything close to the max from anyone. teams arent paying the max for an ineffient volume scorer who doesnt shoot threes well.
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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#38 » by Prokorov » Tue Jul 9, 2019 10:10 am

NyCeEvO wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:Do you, really? Could have fooled all of us based on your comments all season long (here and at GB)

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yes, i just dont drastically over rate him. its funny because 2 years ago some people wanted him traded/benched because he had an awful 2 month stretch shooting to start the year and me and MDB where the only ones to really defend him.

Please link the threads where this happened. At best, this seems hyperbolic. The idea that you and MDB were the only two who were defending Caris (who if anything has been referred to as the board’s golden boy) over and against the rest of the board is highly dubious.

I’ve never wanted him traded.

When he was first drafted, I and a few others were throwing around the name Penny Hardaway’s name based on his slender frame and point forward abilities displayed in college. Others posters (correctly) checked us and reminded us of how good Penny was and that Caris shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence, even if we’re just referring to body type and similar on-court positions/roles.


check 2018 game threads 1 through 30.
Kswiss wrote:Go watch a D'Angelo Russell highlight tape and tell me with a straight face the kid looks like a NBA prospect. I just can't see him in the league in three years.


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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#39 » by SpeedyG » Tue Jul 9, 2019 11:38 am

Prokorov wrote:
SpeedyG wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Hell No. thats like instant one of the leagues worst contracts. i love caris, but 30 million for caris is absurd
Do you, really? Could have fooled all of us based on your comments all season long (here and at GB)

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yes, i just dont drastically over rate him. its funny because 2 years ago some people wanted him traded/benched because he had an awful 2 month stretch shooting to start the year and me and MDB where the only ones to really defend him. now its like everyone thiks he is some start in the making based on... 2 regular season games to start the season and 5 playoff games to end it. ignoring like the other 50 games.

I mean, if someone suggested that like, someone on the knicks with Leverts age/history/production be a future all-star or max player we would laugh them off the forum.

14/4/4 on 50.9 TS% and 31% from three is not a max player... no matter what he did in 5 playoff games.

and for those who want to say those numbers are skewed by injury, his pre-injury numbers are posted above by me, they werent special either.

Khris middleton is basically the bare minimum of what it takes to get a max deal. and he has had 4 consecutive healthy seasons better then anything levert has done on significantly better shooting, efficiency, and health.

if levert posts a 20/5/4 season in 70+ games on 36% or more from deep and 56 TS% or better then maybe we can talk about something approach the max for him. he hasnt done that, let alone done it voer a full year let alone done it over multiple years.

it would be worse then any contract marks has offered out to extend levert on anything near the max, because he is extremely unlikely to play his way to max deal and teams are unlikely to offer him one at his age with his injuries and his lack of shooting.

we are MUCH better off rolling the dice. if he does prove us wrong an earn the max then at least we can say we have a third all-star.
So you love him but:

Don't think he's a good defender (I think I've seen you call him the worst defender of our trio last season)

Don't think he's an All star caliber player

Don't think he was our best player in the playoffs

Think he's overrated.

And is a worse player than Knox.

You need to evaluate your definition of loving a player

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Re: LeVert & Prince Extensions: Now, Later or Never? 

Post#40 » by KD35Netted » Tue Jul 9, 2019 11:59 am

Don't make a move until the market is tested is what I say. If a better player who fits our needs becomes available, they become assets. No need to have albatross contracts tie up our cap space.

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