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Joe Tsai becomes Nets & Barclays majority owner for $3B; David Levy hired as new CEO.

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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#21 » by gigantes » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:57 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:If the 1st world governments don't cooperate on climate change, we are all going to die. This requires the United States to regain some semblance of world leadership on the global stage...which is why the 2020 election isn't just about getting Trump out, its about purging the US Government of all anti-science presence that has infected it since 2017. We need to get the crazies the hell out or its curtains.

I hope Germany, Japan and other countries are working hard on their CO2 capture research, because it's hard to have a lot of confidence in the USA quickly turning things around on this stuff. I would think the Dems will need to capture all three branches and own not just majorities, but strong majorities in order to prevent the expected resistance from the party of extremists.

I don't know if it's fair to criticise the Obama admin on this stuff, but I can't help wonder if he shouldn't have made this stuff more of a priority, putting it above healthcare, say. I know the extremists would have done everything they could to block his efforts, but still.

Plus, there's certainly been years of damage done to the govt and govt-science infrastructure by the Trump admin that will take significant extra time to clean up. Some of it may not be able to be fixed at all, such as the fraudulent imbalance of the supreme court.

Anyone who has a pretty good handle on this stuff should be rightfully furious at what the extremists, elites and all-around dumbasses have done to this country. I can't help but wonder when things will get a lot nastier in terms of personal conflict, the closer we get to the end.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#22 » by Prokorov » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:41 pm

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:If the 1st world governments don't cooperate on climate change, we are all going to die. This requires the United States to regain some semblance of world leadership on the global stage...which is why the 2020 election isn't just about getting Trump out, its about purging the US Government of all anti-science presence that has infected it since 2017. We need to get the crazies the hell out or its curtains.

I hope Germany, Japan and other countries are working hard on their CO2 capture research, because it's hard to have a lot of confidence in the USA quickly turning things around on this stuff. I would think the Dems will need to capture all three branches and own not just majorities, but strong majorities in order to prevent the expected resistance from the party of extremists.

I don't know if it's fair to criticise the Obama admin on this stuff, but I can't help wonder if he shouldn't have made this stuff more of a priority, putting it above healthcare, say. I know the extremists would have done everything they could to block his efforts, but still.

Plus, there's certainly been years of damage done to the govt and govt-science infrastructure by the Trump admin that will take significant extra time to clean up. Some of it may not be able to be fixed at all, such as the fraudulent imbalance of the supreme court.

Anyone who has a pretty good handle on this stuff should be rightfully furious at what the extremists, elites and all-around dumbasses have done to this country. I can't help but wonder when things will get a lot nastier in terms of personal conflict, the closer we get to the end.


and its not going to get easier after another 4 years of trump. which is where we are headed with the trash the DNC is putting out for candidates. Biden can not be trump. neither can booker or any female/minority candidate
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#23 » by gigantes » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:54 pm

Prokorov wrote:and its not going to get easier after another 4 years of trump. which is where we are headed with the trash the DNC is putting out for candidates. Biden can not be trump. neither can booker or any female/minority candidate

God, I hope not. You don't think Warren or Sanders have a shot? Seems like they both have the personality and intelligence to match up well with Trump.

I don't even know why Biden is running this time. He's not awful, but he's prone to having poor moments, and just doesn't seem like the right matchup for this particular race. I really hope he fades out relatively early.

But overall it seems to me there'll be enough residual outrage to sink Trump no matter who the opponent is. I just don't know if it will be enough to get the houses in order.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#24 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:48 pm

Prokorov wrote:
gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:If the 1st world governments don't cooperate on climate change, we are all going to die. This requires the United States to regain some semblance of world leadership on the global stage...which is why the 2020 election isn't just about getting Trump out, its about purging the US Government of all anti-science presence that has infected it since 2017. We need to get the crazies the hell out or its curtains.

I hope Germany, Japan and other countries are working hard on their CO2 capture research, because it's hard to have a lot of confidence in the USA quickly turning things around on this stuff. I would think the Dems will need to capture all three branches and own not just majorities, but strong majorities in order to prevent the expected resistance from the party of extremists.

I don't know if it's fair to criticise the Obama admin on this stuff, but I can't help wonder if he shouldn't have made this stuff more of a priority, putting it above healthcare, say. I know the extremists would have done everything they could to block his efforts, but still.

Plus, there's certainly been years of damage done to the govt and govt-science infrastructure by the Trump admin that will take significant extra time to clean up. Some of it may not be able to be fixed at all, such as the fraudulent imbalance of the supreme court.

Anyone who has a pretty good handle on this stuff should be rightfully furious at what the extremists, elites and all-around dumbasses have done to this country. I can't help but wonder when things will get a lot nastier in terms of personal conflict, the closer we get to the end.


and its not going to get easier after another 4 years of trump. which is where we are headed with the trash the DNC is putting out for candidates. Biden can not be trump. neither can booker or any female/minority candidate


I disagree. Biden and Gabbard are trash, Warren and Harris aren't (I prefer Warren, I like Harris but she's like Hillary-lite to me). Warren is an excellent candidate with solid ideas and actual plans behind what she's talking about. I think she is a very serious candidate. I think Warren and whoever her potential running mate could be would ramp up Democat voter turnout. Biden would absolutely demoralize Dem voters. I like Pete, Castro, Yang and Beto (especially now after he stopped holding back) but now's not their time. I wouldn't mind seeing any one of them run for Senate.

You've got to remember, the Dem voter base is larger than the GOPs. Running a white male candidate isn't a necessity for Democrats as it is for racist and sexist GOP voters. A woman or minority candidate is not an issue, it's the substance of the candidate. Joe Biden absolutely sucks and he needs to retire from politics.

Also, don't underestimate the fact that Trump's further push to extremism is alienating voters. His approval ratings are down significantly in key battle ground states. He is vulnerable and what happened yesterday with the markets is another wound. His trade war is going to upend him as the incoming recession begins. People just need to show up at the polls.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#25 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:54 pm

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:If the 1st world governments don't cooperate on climate change, we are all going to die. This requires the United States to regain some semblance of world leadership on the global stage...which is why the 2020 election isn't just about getting Trump out, its about purging the US Government of all anti-science presence that has infected it since 2017. We need to get the crazies the hell out or its curtains.

I hope Germany, Japan and other countries are working hard on their CO2 capture research, because it's hard to have a lot of confidence in the USA quickly turning things around on this stuff. I would think the Dems will need to capture all three branches and own not just majorities, but strong majorities in order to prevent the expected resistance from the party of extremists.

I don't know if it's fair to criticise the Obama admin on this stuff, but I can't help wonder if he shouldn't have made this stuff more of a priority, putting it above healthcare, say. I know the extremists would have done everything they could to block his efforts, but still.

Plus, there's certainly been years of damage done to the govt and govt-science infrastructure by the Trump admin that will take significant extra time to clean up. Some of it may not be able to be fixed at all, such as the fraudulent imbalance of the supreme court.

Anyone who has a pretty good handle on this stuff should be rightfully furious at what the extremists, elites and all-around dumbasses have done to this country. I can't help but wonder when things will get a lot nastier in terms of personal conflict, the closer we get to the end.


With an obstructionist GOP congress, the fact that Obama got anything accomplished at all is a miracle in itself. It's why its important to not only dump Trump in 2020 but retain the House and capture the Senate.

Capture both the House/Senate and White House and you can then expand the seats on the Supreme Court and pack it judges who have common sense and dignity.

What Trump and the GOP have done in these 3 years will stay with people for a lifetime....if they get washed in 2020 they'll never have control of government again for a generation.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#26 » by Prokorov » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:26 pm

gigantes wrote:
Prokorov wrote:and its not going to get easier after another 4 years of trump. which is where we are headed with the trash the DNC is putting out for candidates. Biden can not be trump. neither can booker or any female/minority candidate

God, I hope not. You don't think Warren or Sanders have a shot? Seems like they both have the personality and intelligence to match up well with Trump.

I don't even know why Biden is running this time. He's not awful, but he's prone to having poor moments, and just doesn't seem like the right matchup for this particular race. I really hope he fades out relatively early.

But overall it seems to me there'll be enough residual outrage to sink Trump no matter who the opponent is. I just don't know if it will be enough to get the houses in order.


Warren 100% no. trump has his base and this country still is too sexist where deomcrats would go third party over warren.

Bernie would have a shot... but trump would paint him as a jew and socialist and america is too dumb to really overcome that i think
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#27 » by gigantes » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:55 am

MrDollarBills wrote:Capture both the House/Senate and White House and you can then expand the seats on the Supreme Court and pack it judges who have common sense and dignity.

Like... change it from nine to 11 or 13... something like that?

That's... that's f-cking interesting, man, that's f-cking interesting.
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Prokorov wrote:Warren 100% no. trump has his base and this country still is too sexist where deomcrats would go third party over warren.

Bernie would have a shot... but trump would paint him as a jew and socialist and america is too dumb to really overcome that i think

I mean, a "woman" easily won the general election last time around, and it seemed like NOBODY, starting with her staunch supporters, really liked her as a person.

Not to mention, if it wasn't for typical GOP voter fraud (and quite possibly Russian troll-farm stuff), that ass-spanking probably would have been even more epic & devastating upon the GOP than it already was.

But yeah... when it comes down to it... the extremists do kinda seem like a bunch of cornered animals, altho with lots of money and influence to reap havoc, so to speak. Sort of the critical X-factors, if you will.

I mean, like-- maybe, just MAYBE, we sometimes underestimate these folks. Perhaps we imagine them having decent values and a sense of fair play, for example, based on their nominal affiliations, for example. What if we're actually way off on that stuff, and they've become exceptionally talented at recognising our delusions and taking advantage of us?
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#28 » by Prokorov » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:08 am

gigantes wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Capture both the House/Senate and White House and you can then expand the seats on the Supreme Court and pack it judges who have common sense and dignity.

Like... change it from nine to 11 or 13... something like that?

That's... that's f-cking interesting, man, that's f-cking interesting.
--The Big Lebowski

Prokorov wrote:Warren 100% no. trump has his base and this country still is too sexist where deomcrats would go third party over warren.

Bernie would have a shot... but trump would paint him as a jew and socialist and america is too dumb to really overcome that i think

I mean, a "woman" easily won the general election last time around, and it seemed like NOBODY, starting with her staunch supporters, really liked her as a person.

Not to mention, if it wasn't for typical GOP voter fraud (and quite possibly Russian troll-farm stuff), that ass-spanking probably would have been even more epic & devastating upon the GOP than it already was.

But yeah... when it comes down to it... the extremists do kinda seem like a bunch of cornered animals, altho with lots of money and influence to reap havoc, so to speak. Sort of the critical X-factors, if you will.

I mean, like-- maybe, just MAYBE, we sometimes underestimate these folks. Perhaps we imagine them having decent values and a sense of fair play, for example, based on their nominal affiliations, for example. What if we're actually way off on that stuff, and they've become exceptionally talented at recognising our delusions and taking advantage of us?


since last election it has become publicaly acceptable to be an open sexist and racist. they have all come out of the woodwork. Only person beating trump is a white WASP who is beyond reproach. i dont see that guy. maybe Beto but he seems more like a 2024 candidate.

the only real way we dont see trump for the next 4 years is if the female vote is up 12-15% or if trump gets impeached/convicted on felony charges.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#29 » by gigantes » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:15 pm

Prokorov wrote:since last election it has become publicaly acceptable to be an open sexist and racist. they have all come out of the woodwork. Only person beating trump is a white WASP who is beyond reproach. i dont see that guy. maybe Beto but he seems more like a 2024 candidate.

the only real way we dont see trump for the next 4 years is if the female vote is up 12-15% or if trump gets impeached/convicted on felony charges.

They've come out of the woodwork in terms of bad behavior, but their voting numbers haven't necessarily increased. When you look at the overall voting for... probably many elections in a row at this point, the Dem candidate seems to get a pretty consistent five million vote edge or so.

Combine that with some pretty inevitable national backlash against Trump, and I doubt that goes backwards, next election.

I don't think it matters nearly as much as it used to in terms of having a traditionally unusual candidate. Such folks did win the last three general elections, after all. Unless you're an extremist, I think you can look at a woman candidate or whatever and feel its a pretty ordinary situation at this point. Arguably the most important world leader right now also happens to be a woman.

AFAIK it's not possible for Trump to be impeached with the senate in Moscow Mitch's hands.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#30 » by Claud » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:08 pm

Proky wasn't perfect but he was the best owner in the history of the franchise.

Yeah, he messed up at the beginning but he was able to fix his mistakes and set up the franchise with a very bright future.

Would have been cool to see Proky holding an NBA trophy and going crazy but he made a killing with this deal so it's good business.

All Tsai has to do is let Marks and Kenny run the basketball ops and not mess up the momentum built already.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#31 » by Paradise » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:03 am

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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#32 » by gigantes » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:57 am

Claud wrote:Proky wasn't perfect but he was the best owner in the history of the franchise.

Yeah, he messed up at the beginning but he was able to fix his mistakes and set up the franchise with a very bright future.

Would have been cool to see Proky holding an NBA trophy and going crazy but he made a killing with this deal so it's good business.

I'm a little surprised Prokhy decided to (evidently) get out of the Nets business entirely. From where I'm sitting, I would have thought it smart to hang out to some reasonable fraction of the team / arena, etc. That way he can (rightfully) share in successes down the road.

Meanwhile, one of the lead writers over at VOX-SBN is sort of damning him with faint praise, but I think that guy's missing some msjor points, there-- that not only did Prokhy make a financial killing on the team, but he also helped the Nets immensely in facilitating the Brooklyn move, the new arena, and in selecting Marks to run the franchise.

Yes, he screwed up big time in overpursuing a championship, and to this day Billy King still gets most of the blame that rightfully belongs to Prohkes, but... those days are now in the past. At the end of the day, Prokhy did good.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#33 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:01 pm

Yep Prok left the team in a better state than he found it, which is all you can ask from an owner.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#34 » by kamaze » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:53 pm

Prokhorov always treated the team like a business. Now that Tsai is the owner of Barclays I hope he brings some entertainment during timeouts at Nets games and brings the Liberty there.
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#35 » by KDSniper » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:15 pm

I like the moves this team is making in the right direction
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Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#36 » by Paradise » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:43 pm

kamaze wrote:Prokhorov always treated the team like a business. Now that Tsai is the owner of Barclays I hope he brings some entertainment during timeouts at Nets games and brings the Liberty there.

It’s pretty much a foregone conclusion the NY Liberty will be at Barclays.

“We need to find a solution when it comes to playing venue, a place where the fans can get excited about,” Tsai had told The Post. “Right now the Westchester venue has a limit of something like 3,000 seats. It’s tiny, it’s hard to get to. If you live in New York City, it’s kind of difficult to get to White Plains. That’s the first order of business. As an owner I see that as my most important responsibility, how to bring more fans into the arena to watch the team.”

“I don’t own this building,” Tsai said in May. “So still things need to be worked out. Of course I’m going to consider Barclays Center as one of the options, but no promises at this point. The Coliseum is far. I’d say we’re trying to explore all options. Right now the current situation is not ideal. Barclays Center would be great.”
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#37 » by KDSniper » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:15 am

New owner Joseph Tsai wagers China, Durant will ‘Net’ him a win
Taiwanese-Canadian businessman Joseph Tsai bought the Brooklyn Nets for a record price — despite the fact that the team had the worst attendance in the NBA last year.
It’s a gamble — but one that Tsai could win, experts said.
Tsai, the co-founder and vice chair of Alibaba, became the new owner of the Nets on Friday in a deal that cost $2.35 billion over two years— the most ever paid for a sports team.
The median value of an NBA team today is about $1.75 billion, sports bankers said, which means Tsai paid a hefty premium even though the Nets barely make a profit.
Tsai, 55, went forward with the deal anyway because he wanted a New York City team and it was the only one for sale, a source familiar with his thinking said.
“Billionaires want to live in New York, Los Angeles or South Florida,” the source said, adding that the location of the team will also help Tsai if he were to sell.
Tsai is also banking on the NBA’s international growth, especially in China where he has deep ties, sources said.
In just one sign of how hot China is getting for the NBA, tech company Tencent Holdings last month announced a five-year expansion of its existing digital media partnership with the basketball league. And it agreed to pay $1.5 billion for the rights — or triple the previous price of $500 million, a source said.
China’s demand for the NBA — and the Nets specifically — could grow exponentially if Tsai were to recruit a Chinese player, which he has said he wants to do. “I think it’s just a matter of time,” he told Netsdaily.com in May.
Tsai’s purchase also comes as the Nets are poised to become a more popular team in their own backyard — thanks to their newly inked contracts with NBA All-Star free agents Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant.

The Brooklyn team has been projecting that revenue for the upcoming season will pop by 10 percent to 15 percent before Durant, its biggest new star, even makes it onto the court, The Post reported last month.
The Nets signed Durant for $164 million despite an Achilles tendon injury that could sideline him for a year.
The risk is that the Nets continue their losing streak if Durant does not return to his former self, which would also leave the team cash-strapped and further hinder the team’s ability to grow its fan base, sources said.
“If the Nets are bad and the Knicks become good no one would care about the Nets,” which has been the case in many of their seasons, one expert said.
“There is very little brand equity in the Nets,” this person said of the team, which only moved to Brooklyn in 2012. Prior to that they had been the New Jersey Nets.
If Tsai loses money on the Nets, it could really hurt as the total cost of the transaction is roughly one-third his estimated net worth of $9.4 billion.
In addition to the team, Tsai also forked over $700 million for the Barclays Center arena, the Nets’ home since they moved to Brooklyn. Because the arena also comes with $325 million in debt, the total cost to Tsai sits at $3.38 billion, according to a person with knowledge of the transaction.

https://nypost.com/2019/08/16/new-owner-joseph-tsai-wagers-china-durant-will-net-him-a-win/
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#38 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:33 pm

KDSniper wrote:New owner Joseph Tsai wagers China, Durant will ‘Net’ him a win
Taiwanese-Canadian businessman Joseph Tsai bought the Brooklyn Nets for a record price — despite the fact that the team had the worst attendance in the NBA last year.
It’s a gamble — but one that Tsai could win, experts said.
Tsai, the co-founder and vice chair of Alibaba, became the new owner of the Nets on Friday in a deal that cost $2.35 billion over two years— the most ever paid for a sports team.
The median value of an NBA team today is about $1.75 billion, sports bankers said, which means Tsai paid a hefty premium even though the Nets barely make a profit.
Tsai, 55, went forward with the deal anyway because he wanted a New York City team and it was the only one for sale, a source familiar with his thinking said.
“Billionaires want to live in New York, Los Angeles or South Florida,” the source said, adding that the location of the team will also help Tsai if he were to sell.
Tsai is also banking on the NBA’s international growth, especially in China where he has deep ties, sources said.
In just one sign of how hot China is getting for the NBA, tech company Tencent Holdings last month announced a five-year expansion of its existing digital media partnership with the basketball league. And it agreed to pay $1.5 billion for the rights — or triple the previous price of $500 million, a source said.
China’s demand for the NBA — and the Nets specifically — could grow exponentially if Tsai were to recruit a Chinese player, which he has said he wants to do. “I think it’s just a matter of time,” he told Netsdaily.com in May.
Tsai’s purchase also comes as the Nets are poised to become a more popular team in their own backyard — thanks to their newly inked contracts with NBA All-Star free agents Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant.

The Brooklyn team has been projecting that revenue for the upcoming season will pop by 10 percent to 15 percent before Durant, its biggest new star, even makes it onto the court, The Post reported last month.
The Nets signed Durant for $164 million despite an Achilles tendon injury that could sideline him for a year.
The risk is that the Nets continue their losing streak if Durant does not return to his former self, which would also leave the team cash-strapped and further hinder the team’s ability to grow its fan base, sources said.
“If the Nets are bad and the Knicks become good no one would care about the Nets,” which has been the case in many of their seasons, one expert said.
“There is very little brand equity in the Nets,” this person said of the team, which only moved to Brooklyn in 2012. Prior to that they had been the New Jersey Nets.
If Tsai loses money on the Nets, it could really hurt as the total cost of the transaction is roughly one-third his estimated net worth of $9.4 billion.
In addition to the team, Tsai also forked over $700 million for the Barclays Center arena, the Nets’ home since they moved to Brooklyn. Because the arena also comes with $325 million in debt, the total cost to Tsai sits at $3.38 billion, according to a person with knowledge of the transaction.

https://nypost.com/2019/08/16/new-owner-joseph-tsai-wagers-china-durant-will-net-him-a-win/



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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#39 » by gigantes » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:35 pm

Late reply, but I think this is worth commenting on:

MrDollarBills wrote:...What Trump and the GOP have done in these 3 years will stay with people for a lifetime....if they get washed in 2020 they'll never have control of government again for a generation.

If people were guided more by rational thought, then you would certainly think so.

I don't know if you remember, but IIRC last year in one of the politics threads, I pasted in a rather canny comment I saw on Reddit. The person was arguing that things might not go the way we might suspect) and hope for).

The idea is that Trump basically represents new breakthroughs in monied interests marshaling the ignorant and the inane in order to do their bidding. Once they're done using Trump, they'll have no problem with a bunch of blame being laid on him, and will move on to their next pieces on the game board. The ignorant and the lazy will have the luxury of not learning a thing from all this, and will be mobilised / manipulated in to whatever's next. A lot of that will just run itself without outside assistance of course, i.e. the bigots & haters being emboldened to act out, more.

Anyway, I think that was a solid chunk of what the commenter was saying.

I think if you're a true centrist (i.e. a Democrat-type), you hope for the best but plan for the worst. You don't assume anyone will learn their lesson from any of this. To coin a phrase-- people prefer going extinct than to change beyond their comfort level.
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MrDollarBills
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Re: Joe Tsai to buy all majority of the Nets for $2.3 billion 

Post#40 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:40 am

gigantes wrote:Late reply, but I think this is worth commenting on:

MrDollarBills wrote:...What Trump and the GOP have done in these 3 years will stay with people for a lifetime....if they get washed in 2020 they'll never have control of government again for a generation.

If people were guided more by rational thought, then you would certainly think so.

I don't know if you remember, but IIRC last year in one of the politics threads, I pasted in a rather canny comment I saw on Reddit. The person was arguing that things might not go the way we might suspect) and hope for).

The idea is that Trump basically represents new breakthroughs in monied interests marshaling the ignorant and the inane in order to do their bidding. Once they're done using Trump, they'll have no problem with a bunch of blame being laid on him, and will move on to their next pieces on the game board. The ignorant and the lazy will have the luxury of not learning a thing from all this, and will be mobilised / manipulated in to whatever's next. A lot of that will just run itself without outside assistance of course, i.e. the bigots & haters being emboldened to act out, more.

Anyway, I think that was a solid chunk of what the commenter was saying.

I think if you're a true centrist (i.e. a Democrat-type), you hope for the best but plan for the worst. You don't assume anyone will learn their lesson from any of this. To coin a phrase-- people prefer going extinct than to change beyond their comfort level.


I'm thinking moreso about the demographics shift and basically how millennials and gen z have been royally **** ed over and are watching one of the most, if not the most, corrupt and cruel administrations in the country's history coupled with a congress that has been stonewalled by Mitch McConnell. I'm optimistic enough to believe that a serious correction is on its way next November.

Also, I don't think I'm a centrist democrat. I think everything that has happened over the last 3 years has pushed me further to the left. I was fairly moderate but now I'm just like screw all that. That centrist, third way bull **** is what paved the way for the situation at hand now.

Conservatives in America have outed themselves to be a pack of racist, fascist white supremacists that don't believe in facts or peer reviewed science. They are **** ing crazy. The mask has come off.

I say this in full seriousness: America will die a horrible death unless we remove them from having any power in government.

I'll deal with moderates from either side all day, but straight up right wing aligned **** ers? hell no. they're evil as hell. there's not a shred of any decency from these people who still align themselves with the GOP and Trump. they bask in cruelty.
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