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What an 80% KD Means to Me

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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#21 » by FNQ » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:21 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
FNQ wrote:Hey Nets fans - one note on KD and the Achilles injury:

Not sure if any of you play fantasy football, but on today's Fantasy Focus podcast (Matthew Berry, Field Yates, Stephania Bell), around the 16min mark they start talking about Emmanuel Sanders and Demariyus Thomas, two WR who had their seasons ended by Achilles injuries, who are coming back way before fans expected. And Stephania (who's a medical authority) delves into the why, and how Achilles' injuries are not the death sentence they once were.

Toyed around with posting this on the GB but it gets lost in seas of nonsense there.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive/_/id/2942325
8/22 show (Texans/Jaguars)
16:30 mark


Do you happen to know which leg the injuries occurred in?



Offhand I don't, but should be easily verifiable. What is your concern?

I think it matters a lot more for KD (plant/pivot/leap foot) than it does for the WRs. If they have an issue going a certain way, they can always switch positions, which doesn't ring true for KD as much.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#22 » by BigRedDog » Sun Sep 1, 2019 6:03 am

It's hard to predict how anyone will return from a torn achilles. Historically, it's just about the worst injury you can have.

However, players returning more recently have faired better and it hasnt been a guaranteed career ender. I'm sure some of that has to do with advancements in modern medicine (*cough* steroids *cough).

Anyway, when KD first started having significant lower body injuries he transitioned his game to be much more of a spot up shooter and we saw his FTA slip precipitously. I think offensively we really just see a continued shift in this direction. That can obviously impact his efficiency, but he's still got the height, handles, and shooting touch to be an effective offensive player.

Defensively, I have many more concerns. His defense already really fell off the last few seasons in GSW. Some of that is probably just because they could win while going through the motions. But some of it for sure was due to aging. He still has great length so that will help him offset the loss of athleticism. The Achilles seems to really derail a player's ability to defend.

We've seen guys like Wes Matthews make it back and be a shell of their former self. But his game was mostly predicated on athleticism. We've seen guys like Kobe make it back and be a shell of their former self but he was extremely old. Christian Laettner never regained all-star form but stuck around another seven years. Elton Brand had a few solid seasons as well.

I'm not sure what the future holds for Durant. I can't see him ever being a top 10 player again, but I could picture him in the top 25-30 or so. He doesn't have a ton of mass, rely heavily on athleticism, etc so relatively speaking his game will hold up very well compared to other stars like Isiah Thomas who stood no chance with a torn achilles.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#23 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Sep 1, 2019 1:32 pm

BigRedDog wrote:It's hard to predict how anyone will return from a torn achilles. Historically, it's just about the worst injury you can have.

However, players returning more recently have faired better and it hasnt been a guaranteed career ender. I'm sure some of that has to do with advancements in modern medicine (*cough* steroids *cough).

Anyway, when KD first started having significant lower body injuries he transitioned his game to be much more of a spot up shooter and we saw his FTA slip precipitously. I think offensively we really just see a continued shift in this direction. That can obviously impact his efficiency, but he's still got the height, handles, and shooting touch to be an effective offensive player.

Defensively, I have many more concerns. His defense already really fell off the last few seasons in GSW. Some of that is probably just because they could win while going through the motions. But some of it for sure was due to aging. He still has great length so that will help him offset the loss of athleticism. The Achilles seems to really derail a player's ability to defend.

We've seen guys like Wes Matthews make it back and be a shell of their former self. But his game was mostly predicated on athleticism. We've seen guys like Kobe make it back and be a shell of their former self but he was extremely old. Christian Laettner never regained all-star form but stuck around another seven years. Elton Brand had a few solid seasons as well.

I'm not sure what the future holds for Durant. I can't see him ever being a top 10 player again, but I could picture him in the top 25-30 or so. He doesn't have a ton of mass, rely heavily on athleticism, etc so relatively speaking his game will hold up very well compared to other stars like Isiah Thomas who stood no chance with a torn achilles.


I'm not too concerned about his defense. He still has the length to be disruptive if need be. Kenny Atkinson also employs a lot of zone defense as well since we really don't have good defenders to begin with.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#24 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Sep 1, 2019 1:33 pm

FNQ wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
FNQ wrote:Hey Nets fans - one note on KD and the Achilles injury:

Not sure if any of you play fantasy football, but on today's Fantasy Focus podcast (Matthew Berry, Field Yates, Stephania Bell), around the 16min mark they start talking about Emmanuel Sanders and Demariyus Thomas, two WR who had their seasons ended by Achilles injuries, who are coming back way before fans expected. And Stephania (who's a medical authority) delves into the why, and how Achilles' injuries are not the death sentence they once were.

Toyed around with posting this on the GB but it gets lost in seas of nonsense there.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive/_/id/2942325
8/22 show (Texans/Jaguars)
16:30 mark


Do you happen to know which leg the injuries occurred in?



Offhand I don't, but should be easily verifiable. What is your concern?

I think it matters a lot more for KD (plant/pivot/leap foot) than it does for the WRs. If they have an issue going a certain way, they can always switch positions, which doesn't ring true for KD as much.


True I didn't think of it that way.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#25 » by FNQ » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:52 am

Dunno if any of you listened to Stephania Bell in that link I provided earlier, but the early results from Emmanuel Sanders have to be extremely encouraging. We're a bit in uncharted waters here - the technique has improved really recently so there's no total agreement on the earlier timeline... yet. But Sanders is looking as explosive as ever a mere 9 months after the initial injury and returned to practice at about 8 months (229 days post surgery)

229 days post KD's surgery? That would be January 28th, 2020.

Lots of reason for optimism here.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#26 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:19 am

FNQ wrote:Dunno if any of you listened to Stephania Bell in that link I provided earlier, but the early results from Emmanuel Sanders have to be extremely encouraging. We're a bit in uncharted waters here - the technique has improved really recently so there's no total agreement on the earlier timeline... yet. But Sanders is looking as explosive as ever a mere 9 months after the initial injury and returned to practice at about 8 months (229 days post surgery)

229 days post KD's surgery? That would be January 28th, 2020.

Lots of reason for optimism here.


Yeah I have Sanders on my fantasy team, outside of today's performance dude is beasting.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#27 » by Prokorov » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:05 pm

we could very well have a 100% KD back before the all-star game. that could mean a title this season.

even an 80% KD = ECF floor
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#28 » by FNQ » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:15 pm

Prokorov wrote:we could very well have a 100% KD back before the all-star game. that could mean a title this season.

even an 80% KD = ECF floor


I very much doubt Sanders was 100% when he started practicing again, but 2 months after that he looked to be near it, if not at it. ASG would be a very, very optimistic timeline for KD to be 100%, but it’s definitely plausible to have him playing by then, and plausible to have him be 100% before the season ends.

All that said, keep your eyes on Sanders. Is he getting nicked up, having trouble with it.. he is your guide
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#29 » by kamaze » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:35 am

Prokorov wrote:we could very well have a 100% KD back before the all-star game. that could mean a title this season.

even an 80% KD = ECF floor


I'll make a sig bet with you KD won't come back 100% before All star game.

Not that I'm rooting against him it's just that achilles injuries take longer to heal, so I doubt he'll be back and 100% by the All Star Game.

This isn't negativity it's based on facts look at Demarcus Cousins he had the same injury. KD will get better with time rushing back is a bad idea.

It's not like he's waiting for a pay day they just signed him. It made sense for Golden State to let him play they were trying to win a championship now it's a different situation. Brooklyn needs to listen to their doctors advice he's got a history with leg injuries and rushing back to play.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#30 » by Prokorov » Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:14 pm

kamaze wrote:
Prokorov wrote:we could very well have a 100% KD back before the all-star game. that could mean a title this season.

even an 80% KD = ECF floor


I'll make a sig bet with you KD won't come back 100% before All star game.

Not that I'm rooting against him it's just that achilles injuries take longer to heal, so I doubt he'll be back and 100% by the All Star Game.

This isn't negativity it's based on facts look at Demarcus Cousins he had the same injury. KD will get better with time rushing back is a bad idea.

It's not like he's waiting for a pay day they just signed him. It made sense for Golden State to let him play they were trying to win a championship now it's a different situation. Brooklyn needs to listen to their doctors advice he's got a history with leg injuries and rushing back to play.


cousins tore his left achilles
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#31 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:46 pm

Marks said that KD isn't playing this year.

Good
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#32 » by kamaze » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:50 pm

Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:
Prokorov wrote:we could very well have a 100% KD back before the all-star game. that could mean a title this season.

even an 80% KD = ECF floor


I'll make a sig bet with you KD won't come back 100% before All star game.

Not that I'm rooting against him it's just that achilles injuries take longer to heal, so I doubt he'll be back and 100% by the All Star Game.

This isn't negativity it's based on facts look at Demarcus Cousins he had the same injury. KD will get better with time rushing back is a bad idea.

It's not like he's waiting for a pay day they just signed him. It made sense for Golden State to let him play they were trying to win a championship now it's a different situation. Brooklyn needs to listen to their doctors advice he's got a history with leg injuries and rushing back to play.


cousins tore his left achilles


And? it's his Achilles. Were taking about a serious injury.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#33 » by kamaze » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:50 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Marks said that KD isn't playing this year.

Good


Do you have a link?
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#34 » by MGrand15 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:29 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Marks said that KD isn't playing this year.

Good


The way he said it was more like 'we don't expect him to play this year but we'll see how rehab goes'. He didn't shut the door on it but definitely wanted to temper expectations.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#35 » by FNQ » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:04 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Marks said that KD isn't playing this year.

Good


He said its the expectation, and thats the smart thing to do. Lower expecations, and if KD beats them, he looks great to the fanbase. If he doesn't, well, that's what was expected.

Marks is a really sharp guy. He's playing this well.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#36 » by FNQ » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:06 pm

kamaze wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:
I'll make a sig bet with you KD won't come back 100% before All star game.

Not that I'm rooting against him it's just that achilles injuries take longer to heal, so I doubt he'll be back and 100% by the All Star Game.

This isn't negativity it's based on facts look at Demarcus Cousins he had the same injury. KD will get better with time rushing back is a bad idea.

It's not like he's waiting for a pay day they just signed him. It made sense for Golden State to let him play they were trying to win a championship now it's a different situation. Brooklyn needs to listen to their doctors advice he's got a history with leg injuries and rushing back to play.


cousins tore his left achilles


And? it's his Achilles. Were taking about a serious injury.


Cousins is also bulkier and had a setback. Also - rumors, fwiw - Cousins isn't a rehab warrior. I'd be wary of using Cousins as a benchmark - though to be fair, I've been using the much smaller Emmanuel Sanders, so I'd say meet in the middle, maybe with a slight lean towards Cousins because of their height/weight comps.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#37 » by kamaze » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:20 pm

FNQ wrote:
kamaze wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
cousins tore his left achilles


And? it's his Achilles. Were taking about a serious injury.


Cousins is also bulkier and had a setback. Also - rumors, fwiw - Cousins isn't a rehab warrior. I'd be wary of using Cousins as a benchmark - though to be fair, I've been using the much smaller Emmanuel Sanders, so I'd say meet in the middle, maybe with a slight lean towards Cousins because of their height/weight comps.


Cousins was overweight but at least he's a basketball player haha. Someone here was saying Cousins injury was to his left foot but I don't know how much difference that makes.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#38 » by FNQ » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:22 pm

kamaze wrote:
FNQ wrote:
kamaze wrote:
And? it's his Achilles. Were taking about a serious injury.


Cousins is also bulkier and had a setback. Also - rumors, fwiw - Cousins isn't a rehab warrior. I'd be wary of using Cousins as a benchmark - though to be fair, I've been using the much smaller Emmanuel Sanders, so I'd say meet in the middle, maybe with a slight lean towards Cousins because of their height/weight comps.


Cousins was overweight but at least he's a basketball player haha. Someone here was saying his injury was to his left foot I don't know how much that will effect his recovery.


Wont affect recovery that much, the difference is that as a right handed player, your left foot is your plant foot typically, which means it will be more awkward to resume playing than not. Its a minor consideration usually.
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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#39 » by gigantes » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:42 am

This isn't a particularly KD-specific comment, but I'm getting pretty tired of Nets fan's borderline premature victory dance, re: this coming season.

It almost sounds like for this coming season, if the Nets don't start strong out of the gate and/or if they don't hit 50 wins, and/or if they don't challenge for the conference title, then once again fans will be calling for Kenny's head. And regardless of all that, getting to the finals sounds like it's also expected in year two of Kyrie-Durant.

TBF, I can indeed see all the positives working out, and the Nets possibly winning the trophy in either of the next two seasons. But I can just as easily see a load of things not working out as well as fans were assuming, starting with KD's rehab and how he performs when he's back. But I also see a major factor in terms of our top three guys all having serious injury histories, and that kind of thing possibly coming back to bite one or more of them.

Also, it seems like there's a major piece of reality that fans are kind of sleeping on, and it starts with the fact that the Nets were a 28-win team just the season before last, with collective talent that arguably didn't even match that win total. The cupboard was pretty much empty, and players like Harris, DWid & LeVert were in many ways longshots who might possibly turn in to something down the road, but were still major longshots by most expertise.

In other words, the 42-win Nets were hardly a 'solid, perennial playoff team' that only needed a couple more pieces to become a finals contender. In fact, it seems to me like fans are kinda, suddenly sleeping on the fact that only a series of miracle moves in desperate straits got the team back in to the playoffs, to the surprise of almost everyone. And all we have is one playoff series in the bank at this point.

My point here is that even with the new guys, this isn't a traditionally loaded team (like the Sixers, Celts or Raps) with years of chemistry (given all our new guys this season), with injury a non-looming concern. As I see it, in reality, this is still a team with its fair share of question marks across the board that could in fact struggle to meet fan expectations.

It's also a team of pretty mediocre defenders (speaking of DWid & Harris), with the two best players also presenting some potential challenges in terms of fitting in chemistry-wise, so to speak, another major area of concern.

Me? I'm hoping for the best, but prepared if things get rocky... is what I'm trying to say, I guess. It's going to be super-annoying though if there's some rockiness, and a big section of the fanbase starts brattily calling for Kenny's head or some other stupid sh-t like that, such as putting down various players. Been there, done that. One thing I know for sure is that this team busts its collective ass, and if things don't live up to your dreams in the coming season(s), the problem likely isn't the team, but you.

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Re: What an 80% KD Means to Me 

Post#40 » by Prokorov » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:12 am

gigantes wrote:This isn't a particularly KD-specific comment, but I'm getting pretty tired of Nets fan's borderline premature victory dance, re: this coming season.

It almost sounds like for this coming season, if the Nets don't start strong out of the gate and/or if they don't hit 50 wins, and/or if they don't challenge for the conference title, then once again fans will be calling for Kenny's head. And regardless of all that, getting to the finals sounds like it's also expected in year two of Kyrie-Durant.

TBF, I can indeed see all the positives working out, and the Nets possibly winning the trophy in either of the next two seasons. But I can just as easily see a load of things not working out as well as fans were assuming, starting with KD's rehab and how he performs when he's back. But I also see a major factor in terms of our top three guys all having serious injury histories, and that kind of thing possibly coming back to bite one or more of them.

Also, it seems like there's a major piece of reality that fans are kind of sleeping on, and it starts with the fact that the Nets were a 28-win team just the season before last, with collective talent that arguably didn't even match that win total. The cupboard was pretty much empty, and players like Harris, DWid & LeVert were in many ways longshots who might possibly turn in to something down the road, but were still major longshots by most expertise.

In other words, the 42-win Nets were hardly a 'solid, perennial playoff team' that only needed a couple more pieces to become a finals contender. In fact, it seems to me like fans are kinda, suddenly sleeping on the fact that only a series of miracle moves in desperate straits got the team back in to the playoffs, to the surprise of almost everyone. And all we have is one playoff series in the bank, at this point.

My point here is that even with the new guys, this isn't a traditionally loaded team (like the Sixers, Celts or Raps) with years of chemistry (given all our new guys this season), with injury a non-looming concern. As I see it, in reality, this is still a team with its fair share of question marks across the board that could in fact struggle to meet fan expectations.

It's also a team of pretty mediocre defenders (speaking of DWid & Harris), with the two best players also presenting some potential challenges in terms of fitting in chemistry-wise, so to speak, another major area of concern.

Me? I'm hoping for the best, but prepared if things get rocky... is what I'm trying to say, I guess. It's going to be super-annoying though if there's some rockiness, and a big section of the fanbase starts brattily calling for Kenny's head or some other stupid sh-t like that, such as putting down various players. Been there, done that. One thing I know for sure is that this team busts its collective ass, and if things don't live up to your dreams in the coming season(s), the problem likely isn't the team, but you.

[/rant that's been slowly fed across this summer]


with no KD this team has a 40-44 win floor. and a nba finals ceiling. we have the second best player in the conference, a super deep loaded team of guys who fit perfectly, and an elite coach

we should dominate, even with injuries
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