Joe Tsai's China Matters

[kamaze]

Brooklyn Nets owner Joe Tsai says the damage from Houston Rockets GM Daryl Morey’s tweet showing support for pro-democracy demonstrators in Hong Kong “will take a long time to repair.”

Houston Rockets blasted by Chinese basketball officials over Hong Kong tweet
Tsai, co-founder of Chinese e-commerce giant Alibaba, said in an open letter posted on his Facebook page that he felt the need to address the matter as someone who had spent his professional life in China.

“When I bought controlling interest in the Brooklyn Nets in September, I didn’t expect my first public communication with our fans would be to comment on something as politically charged and grossly misunderstood as the way hundreds of millions of Chinese NBA fans feel about what just happened,” Tsai wrote.

On Friday, Morey tweeted a shout-out to protesters in Hong Kong.

“Fight for Freedom. Stand with Hong Kong,” Morey wrote in the now-deleted tweet.

The Chinese Basketball Association fired back its “strong opposition” to Morey’s “improper remarks regarding Hong Kong.”

Enlarge ImageDaryl Morey, general manager of the Houston Rockets.
Daryl Morey, general manager of the Houston RocketsAP
In his post, Tsai said that freedom to express one’s opinion “is an inherent American value and the NBA has been very progressive in allowing players and other constituents a platform to speak out on issues.

“The problem is, there are certain topics that are third-rail issues in certain countries, societies and communities,” he said. “Supporting a separatist movement in a Chinese territory is one of those third-rail issues, not only for the Chinese government, but also for all citizens in China.”

He continued: “The one thing that is terribly misunderstood, and often ignored, by the western press and those critical of China is that 1.4 billion Chinese citizens stand united when it comes to the territorial integrity of China and the country’s sovereignty over her homeland. This issue is non-negotiable.”

Tsai went on to cite China’s Opium Wars with the British and Japan’s invasion of China as historical examples for why the country’s psyche has “heavy baggage” toward threats to sovereignty.

Enlarge ImageA protester tosses a tear gas pellet during a recent demonstration in Hong Kong.
A protester tosses a tear gas canister during a recent demonstration in Hong Kong.EPA
“I don’t know Daryl personally. I am sure he’s a fine NBA general manager, and I will take at face value his subsequent apology that he was not as well informed as he should have been. But the hurt this incident has caused will take a long time to repair,” wrote Tsai, who was born in Taiwan, holds a Canadian passport and studied in the US.

In response to Morey’s tweet, Chinese hoops officials cut links with the Rockets, which has had ties with China since drafting native son Yao Ming.

“I did not intend my tweet to cause any offense to Rockets fans and friends of mine in China,” Morey said in a series of damage-control tweets late Sunday. “I was merely voicing one thought, based on one interpretation, of one complicated event. I have had a lot of opportunity since that tweet to hear and consider other perspectives.”

Morey didn't realize how serious it is in China.

A protester tosses a tear gas canister during a recent demonstration in Hong Kong.

[Claud]

The optics of the situation aren't very good for Tsai and the NBA.

The first amendment still protects us thankfully thus Chinese influence can't violate our rights in the name of profits.

Not a good start for Tsai in my eyes.

[Prokorov]

Joe Tsai can go fck himself.

bring back proky

[MrDollarBills]

Joe Tsai can go fck himself.

bring back proky

Seriously.

[NjNeTs1029]

Damn, disappointing that this clown is the new owner.

[ecuhus1981]

I'm not playing devil's advocate simply for argument's sake. We really are out of our depth here, gents.

I can't say that Morey was morally or even professionally wrong for issuing his tweet. As the GM of the team with the largest Chinese fanbase of any NBA franchise, he should have known that Hong Kong independence would be a charged topic. Liberation/separatism (depending on your POV) is a very thorny, complicated issue. Let's inform ourselves before passing judgment, on China or Tsai.

Speaking of Joe, no matter how his response strikes you, you should concede that he probably knows more about the issue than all of us combined. Also, as a new governor of Chinese descent, he probably recognized that his voice was uniquely positioned to bring the two sides together. Plus, if any team is in line to receive a boost in fan support from Chinese citizens that no longer follow Houston, it's us. Joe is a billionaire for a reason, and it reminds me of an old business axiom: when there's blood in the streets, buy land.

[ecuhus1981]

Morey didn't realize how serious it is in China.

A protester tosses a tear gas canister during a recent demonstration in Hong Kong.

I will say one thing in Morey's favor: I've seen videos of Hong Kong protests, and this tear gas was most likely tossed BACK, after the Chinese government initially launched it toward the protesters. These (as they call themselves) freedom fighters have advanced counter-military tactics, including drowning/diffusing those tear gas pellets. But I have yet to hear of protesters actually BRINGING the tear gas. This headline is at best woefully under-informed, at worst a purposeful attempt to sway public opinion against protesters.

[gigantes]

I'm not playing devil's advocate simply for argument's sake. We really are out of our depth here, gents.

I can't say that Morey was morally or even professionally wrong for issuing his tweet. As the GM of the team with the largest Chinese fanbase of any NBA franchise, he should have known that Hong Kong independence would be a charged topic. Liberation/separatism (depending on your POV) is a very thorny, complicated issue. Let's inform ourselves before passing judgment, on China or Tsai.

Speaking of Joe, no matter how his response strikes you, you should concede that he probably knows more about the issue than all of us combined. Also, as a new governor of Chinese descent, he probably recognized that his voice was uniquely positioned to bring the two sides together. Plus, if any team is in line to receive a boost in fan support from Chinese citizens that no longer follow Houston, it's us. Joe is a billionaire for a reason, and it reminds me of an old business axiom: when there's blood in the streets, buy land.

I'm not sure it's really so complicated.

It seemed like most of what Joe responded with was more or less the party line-- i.e. casting the protest movement as a separatism movement. Eloquent, and maybe impassioned, but still just the chosen narrative.

The chances of him doing something other than that were pretty much nil, given his position and how much in bed he is with the CCP. I don't know where his beliefs lie, but he doesn't have much choice in this matter. If you're doing major business with China, you're in bed with the CCP whether you want to be or not.

I think the correct response here is to understand why Joe did what he did, but to still flip him the bird.

[ecuhus1981]

Our benevolent leader Joseph Tsai has an enormous burden to bear. He's the first owner of Asian descent, in his first month as new governor of an NBA team, on their first trip to the country of his heritage. This should be one of the most joyous moments of his life, and he certainly paid the cost to be the boss and enjoy it. However, Hong Kong commentary has placed him squarely in the middle of his profession and his allegiance.

Daryl Morey's tweet heard 'round the world
was pretty simple. But everything exists in context. As the GM of the Rockets, he shepherds the most popular NBA team in China. Anything he says having to do with China will receive maximum attention. Throw in the fact that this comes right before a big international trip to build the league's brand, during a contentious trade war between our two countries, and this little comment turns out to be the straw that broke the camel's back. If Daryl didn't know that he would receive such backlash, shame on him for not knowing. For the record, I do believe that his comments may be morally justified. That still doesn't make it the right decision, or the right timing, for a person in his unique position.

Tsai dutifully took the lead in spin control, and though he stands to gain much from calming the waters, I think his comments ring true. Americans have to come to grips with the fact that we are viewed as pig-headed around the world, ignorant of international matters yet insistent on voicing our beliefs and value systems in cases that don't involve us. We in the USA certainly have our fair share of civil and human rights issues that we propagate in and out of our own country. The unspoken diplomatic rule around it that every world power minds their own business. DAPL, Flint, Botham, kids in cages: imagine if some Chinese pop star with international appeal put us on blast for our ongoing humanitarian crises (plural).


Small-talk aside, I feel for Joe. This is probably the most volatile situation any new owner has encountered in the league's history. I feel he is equipped to navigate it as well as anyone, and he'll need to do his very best. In the end, it could be a huge benefit for him and the Nets. As I mentioned elsewhere, the domino effect of this could be that hundreds of millions of Houston Rockets fans could start supporting Brooklyn instead. If that happens, if we can make chicken salad out of chicken sh... here, we can truly say that the season it is destined for greatness.



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[MrDollarBills]

Free speech is a right in this country, even if we don't like what the person is saying. Free speech doesn't absolve people of consequences for what they say, and I believe Morey faced the consequences of his freedom to voice support for the protesters in Hong Kong.

Americans are pig headed and we do indeed have a slew of human rights issues that predate Donald Trump to be very frank.

That being said, what gives the Chinese government the right to dictate what an American citizen can or cannot say? This is why Joe Tsai drew the ire of NBA fans with his comments. Being in support of the CCG trying to impose their own dictatorial tactics onto a citizen of the US is an indefensible position. If he is so compromised by his business dealings in China that he has to become a mouthpiece and a stooge for Xi then maybe he shouldn't own the team.

[SpeedyG]

Free speech is a right in this country, even if we don't like what the person is saying. Free speech doesn't absolve people of consequences for what they say, and I believe Morey faced the consequences of his freedom to voice support for the protesters in Hong Kong.

Americans are pig headed and we do indeed have a slew of human rights issues that predate Donald Trump to be very frank.

That being said, what gives the Chinese government the right to dictate what an American citizen can or cannot say? This is why Joe Tsai drew the ire of NBA fans with his comments. Being in support of the CCG trying to impose their own dictatorial tactics onto a citizen of the US is an indefensible position. If he is so compromised by his business dealings in China that he has to become a mouthpiece and a stooge for Xi then maybe he shouldn't own the team.

So one of the Chinese Twitter accounts brought up kind of what I was mentioning in the other thread.

Donald Sterling was forced out because of his racist acts/comments.

His freedom of speech was protected as an American, but the obvious backlash resulted in him paying the price for it.

Similarly, Morey's freedom of speech is protected as an American, he's not going to jail or anything for it.

But why isn't he paying the price for it, even though he offended a large portion of people/consumers?

Isn't it because the group of people he offended are not Americans?

If Morey had said half the things Trump has said (good people on both sides, players kneeling, blue lives matter, etc...)

You think he still has a job right now?

My guess is no.



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[MrDollarBills]

Free speech is a right in this country, even if we don't like what the person is saying. Free speech doesn't absolve people of consequences for what they say, and I believe Morey faced the consequences of his freedom to voice support for the protesters in Hong Kong.

Americans are pig headed and we do indeed have a slew of human rights issues that predate Donald Trump to be very frank.

That being said, what gives the Chinese government the right to dictate what an American citizen can or cannot say? This is why Joe Tsai drew the ire of NBA fans with his comments. Being in support of the CCG trying to impose their own dictatorial tactics onto a citizen of the US is an indefensible position. If he is so compromised by his business dealings in China that he has to become a mouthpiece and a stooge for Xi then maybe he shouldn't own the team.

So one of the Chinese Twitter accounts brought up kind of what I was mentioning in the other thread.

Donald Sterling was forced out because of his racist acts/comments.

His freedom of speech was protected as an American, but the obvious backlash resulted in him paying the price for it.

Similarly, Morey's freedom of speech is protected as an American, he's not going to jail or anything for it.

But why isn't he paying the price for it, even though he offended a large portion of people/consumers?

Isn't it because the group of people he offended are not Americans?

If Morey had said half the things Trump has said (good people on both sides, players kneeling, blue lives matter, etc...)

You think he still has a job right now?

My guess is no.
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Well, Darryl Morey could legit get fired for what he did and the Rockets would be well within their rights. He has the freedom to express solidarity with the protesters in HK, but that doesn't give him the freedom of consequences. His political tweet conflicted with his employer's bottom line to the point where it has caused an international incident.

Also...do you as an American believe that Donald Sterling's behavior is comparable to Darryl Morey's? That Chinese twitter account sounds about as ignorant of racism in America as we Americans are about the touchiness of the issue of areas like Hong Kong and Tibet in regards to their autonomy from The CCP. Sterling and Morey is apples and oranges. Those cases aren't the same.

However, again I do not believe that China has the right to dictate what constitutes as free speech in the United States. Do you believe that this:

"We believe that any speech challenging a country's national sovereignty and social stability is not within the scope of freedom of speech," CCTV added.

is even remotely acceptable?

Adam Silver was 100% correct to kindly tell The CCP to go **** themselves.

[newsletter]

…
Where do you think he got the tear gas canister?
We've seen police/CCP disguised as violent protesters. I have to think that a lot of the violent protestors are CCP plants. The protests started off really peaceful. A little bit of violence on the protestors side gives an excuse for the police to be more forceful.

[ecuhus1981]

…
Where do you think he got the tear gas canister?
We've seen police/CCP disguised as violent protesters. I have to think that a lot of the violent protestors are CCP plants. The protests started off really peaceful. A little bit of violence on the protestors side gives an excuse for the police to be more forceful.

Good question, and good point.

I think he got the tear gas canister from a member of the Chinese military throwing it at him. Normally, you don't see that much smoke from the tear gas before you throw it, unless you're throwing it back after someone has thrown it at you. If you're the initial thrower, you're not going to wait until your own airspace is filled with tear gas before throwing it to your intended target.

And yes, governments have various tactics to undermine the effectiveness and public opinion of protests. I wouldn't put it past China to install plants within the protesting ranks.

[ecuhus1981]

Mods, you gutted my brilliant pun by combining threads?

[Rich Rane]

Mods, you gutted my brilliant pun by combining threads?

I think the brilliant pun went over my head?

[ecuhus1981]

Tsai's = size

[Rich Rane]

Tsai's = size

Hah, that is a good one. But let's keep the pun titles at bay to reflect the situation.

[GTR11]

Free speech is a right in this country, even if we don't like what the person is saying. Free speech doesn't absolve people of consequences for what they say, and I believe Morey faced the consequences of his freedom to voice support for the protesters in Hong Kong.

Americans are pig headed and we do indeed have a slew of human rights issues that predate Donald Trump to be very frank.

That being said, what gives the Chinese government the right to dictate what an American citizen can or cannot say? This is why Joe Tsai drew the ire of NBA fans with his comments. Being in support of the CCG trying to impose their own dictatorial tactics onto a citizen of the US is an indefensible position. If he is so compromised by his business dealings in China that he has to become a mouthpiece and a stooge for Xi then maybe he shouldn't own the team.

https://www.msnbc.com/stephanie-ruhle/watch/turkey-begins-airstrikes-and-operations-in-northern-syria-70917189737
This were US first allies during fight vs ISIS. Now they left outside. You also add the fact White House declassified Presidents conversation for political reasons, plus elections around the corner. China sees US facing political crisis while trade war is on going. It will be ugly until after elections. Also Proky is Putin's puppet just like Mark Zuckerberg US government's. Sorry buddy when they say sports beyond politics it's pure bulls***. Soon enough it'll all quite down and things will go back to usual.

[MrDollarBills]

Free speech is a right in this country, even if we don't like what the person is saying. Free speech doesn't absolve people of consequences for what they say, and I believe Morey faced the consequences of his freedom to voice support for the protesters in Hong Kong.

Americans are pig headed and we do indeed have a slew of human rights issues that predate Donald Trump to be very frank.

That being said, what gives the Chinese government the right to dictate what an American citizen can or cannot say? This is why Joe Tsai drew the ire of NBA fans with his comments. Being in support of the CCG trying to impose their own dictatorial tactics onto a citizen of the US is an indefensible position. If he is so compromised by his business dealings in China that he has to become a mouthpiece and a stooge for Xi then maybe he shouldn't own the team.

https://www.msnbc.com/stephanie-ruhle/watch/turkey-begins-airstrikes-and-operations-in-northern-syria-70917189737
This were US first allies during fight vs ISIS. Now they left outside. You also add the fact White House declassified Presidents conversation for political reasons, plus elections around the corner. China sees US facing political crisis while trade war is on going. It will be ugly until after elections. Also Proky is Putin's puppet just like Mark Zuckerberg US government's. Sorry buddy when they say sports beyond politics it's pure bulls***. Soon enough it'll all quite down and things will go back to usual.

I wouldn't say that Zuckerberg is akin to Prokhorov or Tsai in terms of being held by the balls by the government. Being a millionaire/billionaire in the US means a lot more autonomy than Russia and China. In fact, Zuckerberg most likely will find himself in serious trouble if the Democrats take over both the Senate and White House in 2021, especially if Warren gets elected.