Re: What are some trade ideas you’d entertain?
Posted: Tue Dec 3, 2019 1:43 pm
kamaze wrote:Dinwiddie ain't going nowhere.
I would take KAT for Dinwiddle, otherwise he can stay in Brooklyn as long as he wants.
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kamaze wrote:Dinwiddie ain't going nowhere.
MrDollarBills wrote:I'm not a fan of trading Rodi. I don't know what's going on with him but I don't think we should give up on him yet unless his legal issues take a terrible turn.
clo12345 wrote:I think Levert is our best trade piece and would consider trading him if the price is right.
- We are stacked at PG and Kyrie/Dinwiddie are better than him
- Levert isn't that great a shooter and not sure if he ever will be. Tough to play him off-ball. Plus he's not that great a defender.
- We need defense and a big man (Horford type) who can defend big and shoot the 3
Levert fits our culture perfectly and would be missed, but he would get the biggest return
gigantes wrote:clo12345 wrote:I think Levert is our best trade piece and would consider trading him if the price is right.
- We are stacked at PG and Kyrie/Dinwiddie are better than him
- Levert isn't that great a shooter and not sure if he ever will be. Tough to play him off-ball. Plus he's not that great a defender.
- We need defense and a big man (Horford type) who can defend big and shoot the 3
Levert fits our culture perfectly and would be missed, but he would get the biggest return
- Spencer's better than LeVert at PG -at the moment-, but that kind of thing has flip-flopped through their Nets tenures. If Spencer had been the one injured and LeVert forced to be full-time PG, we'd almost certainly be saying the reverse right now.
- Neither one are so far great shooters, but Caris can play more positions and is the decisively better defender.
- LeVert has missed a lot of time with injury, such that we still don't really know what his ceiling is. Meanwhile, he's looked so good in stretches that it would kill us if he took that next step with another team.
- Nobody's untradeable, but I would certainly hope we'd only trade LeVert for a team who's really stoked about him. A couple years ago there seemed to be a few of those teams, but now that he's 25yo, I'm not sure what that market would be. That said, bonus pts for him being on a pretty bargain contract.
- Trading Caris also means that the glaring problem with Pinson as 3rd PG becomes even more magnified.
- One could just as easily make the argument that DWidd's value is likely as high as its ever going to get right now, and therefore he'd be the better trade piece once Kyrie or LeVert come back.
gigantes wrote:clo12345 wrote:I think Levert is our best trade piece and would consider trading him if the price is right.
- We are stacked at PG and Kyrie/Dinwiddie are better than him
- Levert isn't that great a shooter and not sure if he ever will be. Tough to play him off-ball. Plus he's not that great a defender.
- We need defense and a big man (Horford type) who can defend big and shoot the 3
Levert fits our culture perfectly and would be missed, but he would get the biggest return
- Spencer's better than LeVert at PG -at the moment-, but that kind of thing has flip-flopped through their Nets tenures. If Spencer had been the one injured and LeVert forced to be full-time PG, we'd almost certainly be saying the reverse right now.
- Neither one are so far great shooters, but Caris can play more positions and is the decisively better defender.
- LeVert has missed a lot of time with injury, such that we still don't really know what his ceiling is. Meanwhile, he's looked so good in stretches that it would kill us if he took that next step with another team.
- Nobody's untradeable, but I would certainly hope we'd only trade LeVert for a team who's really stoked about him. A couple years ago there seemed to be a few of those teams, but now that he's 25yo, I'm not sure what that market would be. That said, bonus pts for him being on a pretty bargain contract.
- Trading Caris also means that the glaring problem with Pinson as 3rd PG becomes even more magnified.
- One could just as easily make the argument that DWidd's value is likely as high as its ever going to get right now, and therefore he'd be the better trade piece once Kyrie or LeVert come back.
Prokorov wrote:there is no way levert is a better defender than dinwiddie. A big part of why we have been better defensively is levert is out and temple is in
i wouldnt trade levert because the position we would need to fill is the position he already plays and a 1-for-1 likely doesnt bring us back anyone better unless its someone in their walk year
clo12345 wrote:Disagree, and I don't think its close. Dinwiddie has the ability to create his own shot and is a great long distance shooter, something Levert can't do. And while he does have defensive lapses he's much better fighting through screens and get more blocks. Plus hes long and stronger
clo12345 wrote:I dont think its fair saying Levert has the higher upside with the way Dinwiddies been playing. That said I would take Leverts play in the playoffs vs. the 76ers ALL DAY.
Unfortunately you can have so many high usage players on the same team. Hopefully they all gel when they get healthy.
gigantes wrote:clo12345 wrote:I dont think its fair saying Levert has the higher upside with the way Dinwiddies been playing. That said I would take Leverts play in the playoffs vs. the 76ers ALL DAY.
Unfortunately you can have so many high usage players on the same team. Hopefully they all gel when they get healthy.
I'd say LeVert is the more useful player with the ball out of his hands, is the better long range shooter, is more suited to the wing, and overall better complements Kyrie... not to mention, complements the Kyrie / Durant combo in future. These are things which I think make him a better fit with other high usage players.
Spencer is more suited to having the ball in his hands, perfect for the second unit or substituting for Kyrie.
I'm not really seeing the problem with fitting this all together, other than the thought of trading LeVert, now of all times. IMO the team also has significant more gelling to do, now, and in the future with the returning players. So yeah, doesn't seem like an ideal time for that trade to me, particularly since one PF is coming back soon, one rookie PF/C can hopefully make some strides in the coming months, and one badass PF will hopefully come back late this season, or next.
clo12345 wrote:Again I disagree and Levert is NOT a better shooter. You cited a 9 game sample where Levert is shooting slightly better. How about the last 10 game + sample from Dinwiddie?
gigantes wrote:clo12345 wrote:Again I disagree and Levert is NOT a better shooter. You cited a 9 game sample where Levert is shooting slightly better. How about the last 10 game + sample from Dinwiddie?
Yes, I was citing their current season averages, such as they are.
Or in career long-range shooting, Caris is at 33% versus 32% for Spencer.
Also, as a young player finishing his third year, 3pt shooting was arguably the biggest knock against LeVert in the offseason, and the numbers seem to suggest that that's something he worked hard on this past summer.
Meanwhile, listening to DWidd recently, I seem to recall him actually saying something like "yeah, I could probably stand to work on my long range shooting." A recent article was also talking about Kenny still encouraging him to drive more and shoot the three less.
So yeah, maybe there's another reality out there in which Spencer appears to be the better long range shooter, but I don't have access to the dimensional portal at the moment.
gigantes wrote:Prokorov wrote:there is no way levert is a better defender than dinwiddie. A big part of why we have been better defensively is levert is out and temple is in
i wouldnt trade levert because the position we would need to fill is the position he already plays and a 1-for-1 likely doesnt bring us back anyone better unless its someone in their walk yearclo12345 wrote:Disagree, and I don't think its close. Dinwiddie has the ability to create his own shot and is a great long distance shooter, something Levert can't do. And while he does have defensive lapses he's much better fighting through screens and get more blocks. Plus hes long and stronger
Whatchu talkin bout, Willis?
From the advanced PM stats I've seen, Caris is the significantly more effective defender. Now sure, you may point out that PM is inherently flawed, but the point of the advanced models is to ameliorate such shortcomings, such as via the RAPTOR stat.
Maybe DWidd looks better in the eye test, but the advanced numbers don't seem to bear it out.
Also, au contraire, LeVert is in fact a really good (and growing) shot creator, and a significantly better 3pt shooter this season (36% on 4attempts) vs. Spencer (32% on 6). DWidd has been higher usage of course, but that's countered by Caris probably taking his shots more naturally within the flow of the game, which DWidd still struggles mightily with in his 6th year in the league.
And like I was talking about, LeVert is the guy with likely the higher upside and the lower present value. Trading him now seems like an awful idea unless you somehow get a honey of a deal... which seems pretty uncertain right now.
clo12345 wrote:gigantes wrote:clo12345 wrote:Again I disagree and Levert is NOT a better shooter. You cited a 9 game sample where Levert is shooting slightly better. How about the last 10 game + sample from Dinwiddie?
Yes, I was citing their current season averages, such as they are.
Or in career long-range shooting, Caris is at 33% versus 32% for Spencer.
Also, as a young player finishing his third year, 3pt shooting was arguably the biggest knock against LeVert in the offseason, and the numbers seem to suggest that that's something he worked hard on this past summer.
Meanwhile, listening to DWidd recently, I seem to recall him actually saying something like "yeah, I could probably stand to work on my long range shooting." A recent article was also talking about Kenny still encouraging him to drive more and shoot the three less.
So yeah, maybe there's another reality out there in which Spencer appears to be the better long range shooter, but I don't have access to the dimensional portal at the moment.
True Shooting % in 18-19
Levert .509
Dinwiddie .580
True Shooting % in 19-20
Levert .491
Dinwiddie .561
Field Goal % from 25-29ft. in 18-19
Levert .306
Dinwiddie .361
Field Goal % from 25-29ft. in 19-20
Levert .28
Dinwiddie .342
Or is that too advanced for you?