GT: Nets vs. Hawks 1/12/20 6PM EST: Kyrie Returns

[DarkXaero]

At least it’s a confirmation that he shouldn’t be the starting PG for a team that has true aspirations for contending.

IMO, he’s a worse shooting, more streaky, better attacking version fo Lou Williams. And like Williams, he’s best suited as a 6th man coming off the bench.

If Caris doesn’t develop into a better shooter, I’d like to see the Nets draft or acquire a player with a similar build to Caris but with better shooting ability.

Next season, I’d like to have Dinwiddie and Spencer come off the bench, and pair Kyrie and KD with 3 and/or D specialists in the starting lineup alongside Jarrett Allen.

Disagree with all of this. Din can definitely start for contenders and can probably start for half the teams in the league and will definitely make those teams better instantly. Some Sixer fans would rather Din be their point guard than Simmons. Lou is a flat out scorer but Din can really lead a team.

I don't mind Din and Spencer coming off the bench. I think getting a wing 3&D guy would be best to play along side KD. I thought Prince would of been that guy but he isn't. Joe will start with Kyrie and KD, KD will play the 4 though so I think we should look into small forward guys with size. A 6"8 guy that can do the dirty work on defense so KD can just score on offense.

I think you start Kyrie, Harris, KD and Allen and preferably a wing that can defend and shoot. But I doubt we can find someone much better in free agency than who we have here now. But if we have LeVert, Spencer and Prince coming off the bench with DJ that is a top 2nd unit.

It's funny that technically, Prince is supposed to be that guy, it was his reputation and projection coming into the league. For some reason, it never happened.

[gigantes]

Man if we could have just added that one piece next to Kidd and VC at the time, we could have been a legit contender. Looking back at it, RJ was my favorite Net at the time, but him and VC together were a bit redundant and we probably should have looked to trade him for more help up front.

I'm sure Thorn and Stefanski tried, but it just seemed RJ wasn't enough. Didn't help RJ was injured as well.

IIRC the real killer was that dirty play by Billups on RJ.

We went from having a third guy who was developing in to a seriously good player, and likely multiple-time all-star, to a guy who was never the same, and couldn't bring much return value.

[therealbig3]

RJ recovered just fine from that injury, he just wasn't the kind of player that could add enough to Kidd and VC to make us contenders. He was a similar player to Carter but not as good. We needed better big men, we lost a lot of our interior toughness when K-Mart left. Krstic was developing into a solid piece, but then tore his ACL.

[NetsJets]

Man if we could have just added that one piece next to Kidd and VC at the time, we could have been a legit contender. Looking back at it, RJ was my favorite Net at the time, but him and VC together were a bit redundant and we probably should have looked to trade him for more help up front.

Krstic getting hurt messed things up. He was that 4th scoring guy.

[gigantes]

RJ recovered just fine from that injury, he just wasn't the kind of player that could add enough to Kidd and VC to make us contenders. He was a similar player to Carter but not as good. We needed better big men, we lost a lot of our interior toughness when K-Mart left. Krstic was developing into a solid piece, but then tore his ACL.

I don't believe that's correct, but it's been a long time since I researched it. Granted, he had more than one similar injury, but the Billups injury was the one where you could see some pretty stark differences in performance and stats, before and after. Guess I might have to go digging again to see if I'm remembering that correctly.

Also, I'm not sure how similar he really was to VC. Defensively they were a lot different, for one thing. But I agree that the loss of KMart was pretty devastating. Kittles was a somewhat underrated piece too, I think, whose back pretty much gave up not too long after those finals runs IIRC.

[Papi_swav]

Disagree with all of this. Din can definitely start for contenders and can probably start for half the teams in the league and will definitely make those teams better instantly. Some Sixer fans would rather Din be their point guard than Simmons. Lou is a flat out scorer but Din can really lead a team.

I don't mind Din and Spencer coming off the bench. I think getting a wing 3&D guy would be best to play along side KD. I thought Prince would of been that guy but he isn't. Joe will start with Kyrie and KD, KD will play the 4 though so I think we should look into small forward guys with size. A 6"8 guy that can do the dirty work on defense so KD can just score on offense.

I think you start Kyrie, Harris, KD and Allen and preferably a wing that can defend and shoot. But I doubt we can find someone much better in free agency than who we have here now. But if we have LeVert, Spencer and Prince coming off the bench with DJ that is a top 2nd unit.

It's funny that technically, Prince is supposed to be that guy, it was his reputation and projection coming into the league. For some reason, it never happened.

Don't get me wrong, Prince is still decent but he's just a little overpaid now . Once KD and Kyrie is healthy, his 3 point %'s will rise , he can definitely knock down the 3. But he cannot dribble to save his life. I just want him to be a better finisher on the offensive side.

On the defensive side, he is a good 1 on 1 man defender, but he's not good with team defense. Especially when we play zone, he always loses his defender for an easy basket. I think that is teachable though. But man on man he's pretty solid IMO, maybe someone can put up the advanced stats to see. We'll get a better look once KD comes back. But tonight you can see what having Kyrie in the lineup does, he knocked down most of his shots. It's just a wait and see thing at this point.

[therealbig3]

RJ recovered just fine from that injury, he just wasn't the kind of player that could add enough to Kidd and VC to make us contenders. He was a similar player to Carter but not as good. We needed better big men, we lost a lot of our interior toughness when K-Mart left. Krstic was developing into a solid piece, but then tore his ACL.

I don't believe that's correct, but it's been a long time since I researched it. Granted, he had more than one similar injury, but the Billups injury was the one where you could see some pretty stark differences in performance and stats, before and after. Guess I might have to go digging again to see if I'm remembering that correctly.

Also, I'm not sure how similar he really was to VC. Defensively they were a lot different, for one thing. But I agree that the loss of KMart was pretty devastating. Kittles was a somewhat underrated piece too, I think, whose back pretty much gave up not too long after those finals runs IIRC.

I mean, the year after that injury (06) was probably RJ's best season up until that point with the Nets, so I'm not sure I see this drop-off you're talking about. He had a down year due to injury in 07, but then bounced back again in 08 with the best scoring season of his career. Went to Milwaukee after that and produced nicely for them there. After that, he went to SA and never fit in, and that was pretty much a wrap on his career as a productive player.

Him and Carter were similar in the sense that offensively, they were both hyper athletic slashers that were lethal in transition, and both were at their best with the ball in their hands...we didn't really need Jefferson to have the ball in his hands that much if we had Carter though, who was simply better at everything offensively. Having better fitting parts in place of Jefferson would have been ideal for those Nets teams.

And I say that as someone who was a HUGE fan of RJ at the time.

[gigantes]

RJ recovered just fine from that injury, he just wasn't the kind of player that could add enough to Kidd and VC to make us contenders. He was a similar player to Carter but not as good. We needed better big men, we lost a lot of our interior toughness when K-Mart left. Krstic was developing into a solid piece, but then tore his ACL.

I don't believe that's correct, but it's been a long time since I researched it. Granted, he had more than one similar injury, but the Billups injury was the one where you could see some pretty stark differences in performance and stats, before and after. Guess I might have to go digging again to see if I'm remembering that correctly.

Also, I'm not sure how similar he really was to VC. Defensively they were a lot different, for one thing. But I agree that the loss of KMart was pretty devastating. Kittles was a somewhat underrated piece too, I think, whose back pretty much gave up not too long after those finals runs IIRC.

I mean, the year after that injury (06) was probably RJ's best season up until that point with the Nets, so I'm not sure I see this drop-off you're talking about. He had a down year due to injury in 07, but then bounced back again in 08 with the best scoring season of his career. Went to Milwaukee after that and produced nicely for them there. After that, he went to SA and never fit in, and that was pretty much a wrap on his career as a productive player.

Him and Carter were similar in the sense that offensively, they were both hyper athletic slashers that were lethal in transition, and both were at their best with the ball in their hands...we didn't really need Jefferson to have the ball in his hands that much if we had Carter though, who was simply better at everything offensively. Having better fitting parts in place of Jefferson would have been ideal for those Nets teams.

And I say that as someone who was a HUGE fan of RJ at the time.

Hmm. If that's the case, I might be remembering the wrong injury, then. I don't remember him being the same player for the Nets, MIL or elsewhere after a certain point, fairly early in his career.

Good points about his offensive similarities, though. But... besides being a better defender than VC, I thought RJ was more bruising / physical on the offensive end, as well as more of a workhorse player. (he averaged 41mpg at his peak!) But yeah, true-- also less explosive, a weaker passer, etc, than Sergeant Vince Carter. (bonus pts if anyone gets the reference)

EDIT: Looks like I'm wrong about any one injury sharply derailing his career. Guess I wasn't paying enough attention at the time, and wound up drawing the wrong conclusion. That said, maybe it was the cumulative effect of injuries that caused his career to kind of tail off a bit early. Maybe that, and/or the Spurs.

[MrDollarBills]

I think you start Kyrie, Harris, KD and Allen and preferably a wing that can defend and shoot. But I doubt we can find someone much better in free agency than who we have here now. But if we have LeVert, Spencer and Prince coming off the bench with DJ that is a top 2nd unit.

It's funny that technically, Prince is supposed to be that guy, it was his reputation and projection coming into the league. For some reason, it never happened.

Don't get me wrong, Prince is still decent but he's just a little overpaid now . Once KD and Kyrie is healthy, his 3 point %'s will rise , he can definitely knock down the 3. But he cannot dribble to save his life. I just want him to be a better finisher on the offensive side.

On the defensive side, he is a good 1 on 1 man defender, but he's not good with team defense. Especially when we play zone, he always loses his defender for an easy basket. I think that is teachable though. But man on man he's pretty solid IMO, maybe someone can put up the advanced stats to see. We'll get a better look once KD comes back. But tonight you can see what having Kyrie in the lineup does, he knocked down most of his shots. It's just a wait and see thing at this point.

Last night was indicative of what we want from Prince. All he had to do was catch and shoot because Kyrie and Spencer were on the floor with him. Now imagine when KD comes back.

[Prokorov]

At least it’s a confirmation that he shouldn’t be the starting PG for a team that has true aspirations for contending.

IMO, he’s a worse shooting, more streaky, better attacking version fo Lou Williams. And like Williams, he’s best suited as a 6th man coming off the bench.

If Caris doesn’t develop into a better shooter, I’d like to see the Nets draft or acquire a player with a similar build to Caris but with better shooting ability.

Next season, I’d like to have Dinwiddie and Spencer come off the bench, and pair Kyrie and KD with 3 and/or D specialists in the starting lineup alongside Jarrett Allen.

Disagree with all of this. Din can definitely start for contenders and can probably start for half the teams in the league and will definitely make those teams better instantly. Some Sixer fans would rather Din be their point guard than Simmons. Lou is a flat out scorer but Din can really lead a team.

I don't mind Din and Spencer coming off the bench. I think getting a wing 3&D guy would be best to play along side KD. I thought Prince would of been that guy but he isn't. Joe will start with Kyrie and KD, KD will play the 4 though so I think we should look into small forward guys with size. A 6"8 guy that can do the dirty work on defense so KD can just score on offense.

I think you start Kyrie, Harris, KD and Allen and preferably a wing that can defend and shoot. But I doubt we can find someone much better in free agency than who we have here now. But if we have LeVert, Spencer and Prince coming off the bench with DJ that is a top 2nd unit.

I think the only potential problem is that levert and spencer are both suited as 6th men and you cant find that 3&D guy in the starting lineup. i think we have it already (Temple or prince).

I'd be ok moving levert for a covington type, but mostly because i dont trust him to stay healthy. I wouldnt deal spenver because he has proven to be healthy and able to step up for stretches when needed.

[NetsJets]

I feel like we need a 3rd scorer in the starting lineup. Unless Harris develops into that. But having Dinwiddie and LeVert off the bench would be insane.

[MGrand15]

I think people are too quick to want to swap scorers and playmakers for 3+D guys. Last year the Raptors had Kawhi, Lowry, Pascal, Van Vleet and the combo of Gasol+Ibaka. More firepower is good. And we're not sure if KD is gonna come back as more of a jump shooter instead of the iso king he used to be. If we can get a big wing that could guard superstars and shoot 3s, that would be great. But those aren't easy to find at all.

With that said, I think Dinwiddie has earned the starting 2 spot with his defense this year. Much improved. And the fact that he can get to the rim + free throw line AND he's really good at managing the game is awesome next to Kyrie. Once we have KD back, the paint is gonna be even more open for drives.

[Prokorov]

I think people are too quick to want to swap scorers and playmakers for 3+D guys. Last year the Raptors had Kawhi, Lowry, Pascal, Van Vleet and the combo of Gasol+Ibaka. More firepower is good. And we're not sure if KD is gonna come back as more of a jump shooter instead of the iso king he used to be. If we can get a big wing that could guard superstars and shoot 3s, that would be great. But those aren't easy to find at all.

With that said, I think Dinwiddie has earned the starting 2 spot with his defense this year. Much improved. And the fact that he can get to the rim + free throw line AND he's really good at managing the game is awesome next to Kyrie. Once we have KD back, the paint is gonna be even more open for drives.

I think Dinwiddie is a keeper. if we trade anyone, its levert... despite his skillset, he isnt a great scorer, mostly because he is an average to below jump shooter and a poor finsiher who doesnt get to the line at an above avg rate. On top of that, he struggles to stay healthy.

I think between his inefficeicny/poor shooting and injuries you cant rely on him for consistent scoring. I think if you are going to turn anyone into a 3 & D guy it would be him.

I think even a 50% jump shooting KD is a top 30 scorer. Kyrie a top 10 scorer, dinwiddie a 20 ppg type. that should be plenty given we have so many other guys who while not go to scorers can put it in the hoop (harris, rpince, allen)

[MGrand15]

I think people are too quick to want to swap scorers and playmakers for 3+D guys. Last year the Raptors had Kawhi, Lowry, Pascal, Van Vleet and the combo of Gasol+Ibaka. More firepower is good. And we're not sure if KD is gonna come back as more of a jump shooter instead of the iso king he used to be. If we can get a big wing that could guard superstars and shoot 3s, that would be great. But those aren't easy to find at all.

With that said, I think Dinwiddie has earned the starting 2 spot with his defense this year. Much improved. And the fact that he can get to the rim + free throw line AND he's really good at managing the game is awesome next to Kyrie. Once we have KD back, the paint is gonna be even more open for drives.

I think Dinwiddie is a keeper. if we trade anyone, its levert... despite his skillset, he isnt a great scorer, mostly because he is an average to below jump shooter and a poor finsiher who doesnt get to the line at an above avg rate. On top of that, he struggles to stay healthy.

I think between his inefficeicny/poor shooting and injuries you cant rely on him for consistent scoring. I think if you are going to turn anyone into a 3 & D guy it would be him.

I think even a 50% jump shooting KD is a top 30 scorer. Kyrie a top 10 scorer, dinwiddie a 20 ppg type. that should be plenty given we have so many other guys who while not go to scorers can put it in the hoop (harris, rpince, allen)

I also think KD is gonna be awesome no matter what. But we still need to see how he comes back. If he's 1st/2nd team All NBA KD, yeah we can surround him with 3+D guys, maybe 1 other scorer like Dinwiddie, and we're set. If he's more of a catch and shoot guy now - still REALLY good - but maybe can't get to the rim or punish guys 1v1 as much - I think it helps to surround him with guys that can make plays + drive to the rim. Harris, Prince, and Allen can score for sure but they're not punishing mismatches or drawing defenders or running PNR, etc.

[GTR11]

Disagree with all of this. Din can definitely start for contenders and can probably start for half the teams in the league and will definitely make those teams better instantly. Some Sixer fans would rather Din be their point guard than Simmons. Lou is a flat out scorer but Din can really lead a team.

I don't mind Din and Spencer coming off the bench. I think getting a wing 3&D guy would be best to play along side KD. I thought Prince would of been that guy but he isn't. Joe will start with Kyrie and KD, KD will play the 4 though so I think we should look into small forward guys with size. A 6"8 guy that can do the dirty work on defense so KD can just score on offense.

I think you start Kyrie, Harris, KD and Allen and preferably a wing that can defend and shoot. But I doubt we can find someone much better in free agency than who we have here now. But if we have LeVert, Spencer and Prince coming off the bench with DJ that is a top 2nd unit.

I think the only potential problem is that levert and spencer are both suited as 6th men and you cant find that 3&D guy in the starting lineup. i think we have it already (Temple or prince).

I'd be ok moving levert for a covington type, but mostly because i dont trust him to stay healthy. I wouldnt deal spenver because he has proven to be healthy and able to step up for stretches when needed.

Only players I'd be willing to move Caris for Beal and KAT, there's no reason to make any changes to this team at this point. We're the deepest team in the league with highest quality role players. Who'll be able to match up with Caris and Din while they running second unit. We good right now and next year.

[Papi_swav]

I think you start Kyrie, Harris, KD and Allen and preferably a wing that can defend and shoot. But I doubt we can find someone much better in free agency than who we have here now. But if we have LeVert, Spencer and Prince coming off the bench with DJ that is a top 2nd unit.

I think the only potential problem is that levert and spencer are both suited as 6th men and you cant find that 3&D guy in the starting lineup. i think we have it already (Temple or prince).

I'd be ok moving levert for a covington type, but mostly because i dont trust him to stay healthy. I wouldnt deal spenver because he has proven to be healthy and able to step up for stretches when needed.

Only players I'd be willing to move Caris for Beal and KAT, there's no reason to make any changes to this team at this point. We're the deepest team in the league with highest quality role players. Who'll be able to match up with Caris and Din while they running second unit. We good right now and next year.

Yea there's no reason to make any moves now until we see what we all look like with KD. But in the draft I think we need to get a legit 6'8 wing guy that can shoot and play D, someone like Prince but can potentially be better. And I we need a 3rd string PG. Other than that I think we're straight.

[kamaze]

They could use an upgrade at starting shooting guard I like Dinwiddie off the bench. They could plug Temple in that slot he's the type of shooting guard they need a good perimeter defender.

They can trade Levert etc for this player.

[Nondescript]

I haven't posted on here in forever. Watching this and the Heat game restored my faith a bit. Things were starting to get real ugly and even though the Nets aren't in contention this year it was beginning to feel like a lost season. I still have my doubts about this team even with a healthy KD but it is great watchin'em lay pipe.

[MrDollarBills]

Unless a deal for a third star like KAT or Bradley Beal emerges, LeVert is not being traded.

[Prokorov]

Unless a deal for a third star like KAT or Bradley Beal emerges, LeVert is not being traded.

I think both KAT and Beal are awful fits. im not sure id take them for free because of how bad the fit is. we need more guys who are either stars defensively or who dont need the ball to impact the game. especially with KD back.

If we can get a covington type for levert we should 100% do it. if only to mitigate the injury risk.