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Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2041 » by Papi_swav » Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:12 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:I really like Rodi and think his style of play is perfect for what we need but I think we're moving on from him and Musa. They're both really young so I think they have a chance in this league but man, we badly needed both of them this year and the coaching staff showed they don't trust them. Musa couldn't really get minutes in the bubble when we only had 4-5 NBA players. We didn't have a PF on the roster and Rodi still struggled to get over 24 minutes.


Here's a list of some low cost FAs that might be options:
Paul Millsap
Kent Bazemore
Marcus Morris
Solomon Hill
Mo Harkless
MKG

Harkless and Bazemore might be undervalued guys that I think could be good roleplayers. Marks is gonna have to work some magic to get us some better wing options. The minimum vet options are slimmer than usual.


Milsap is the only guy I would be interested in. I would probably consider starting him too.

I don't want any of the others. I don't know why people are so high on Harkless either. He seems pretty washed to me.

I'd rather just take a chance on Roberson.

I'd actually would like any of those guys on this list. I would not give Mo Harkless a MLE though, definitely a vets minimum or BAE. He can play solid defense on the wing. He was Portlands best defender when they went deep into the playoffs last season . Even though his 3 pt shooting has been up and down in his career he shot the 3 at 37% that year. And his FG% is usually around 50% which means he doesn't take bad shots and he makes his layups when it count. Can't go wrong for a vets minimum.

Bazemore too, Bazemore will usually guard the smaller quicker guards or wings, Harkless will guard the taller longer wing guys like Paul George etc.. But if we can get either guy for a vet min or BAE than we should go for it. I'm definitely not giving them the MLE. I think everybody would jump on Milsap for a MLE. Marcus Morris would also be very good in this role but he's too dirty. But we definitely need a guy with some dog in him.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2042 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:16 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:I actually wouldn't mind if we go with Irving/Temple/Harris/KD/DJ or Allen. Temple was asked to do too much and people seem to forget that roleplayers only excel when they are playing off of star players. Same with Prince. If Temple's only job is to defend and space the floor he will be fine.


Kyrie is really good off ball.

Catch and Shoot 3’s

2017 47% on 2.4 attempts
2018 40% on 3 attempts
2019 45.4% on 3.3 attempts
2020 46% on 2 attempts

Din and Vert are much better at finding open teammates than Temple. Temple can’t take advantage of 4 on 3’s when one of our stars are being doubled.

Plus, Kyrie just had shoulder surgery. Starting Temple means Kyrie has to bring the ball up every time which is just putting more wear and tear on his shoulders.


I was thinking moreso defensively. We need a defender in the starting unit
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2043 » by dalton749 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:33 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:I actually wouldn't mind if we go with Irving/Temple/Harris/KD/DJ or Allen. Temple was asked to do too much and people seem to forget that roleplayers only excel when they are playing off of star players. Same with Prince. If Temple's only job is to defend and space the floor he will be fine.


Kyrie is really good off ball.

Catch and Shoot 3’s

2017 47% on 2.4 attempts
2018 40% on 3 attempts
2019 45.4% on 3.3 attempts
2020 46% on 2 attempts

Din and Vert are much better at finding open teammates than Temple. Temple can’t take advantage of 4 on 3’s when one of our stars are being doubled.

Plus, Kyrie just had shoulder surgery. Starting Temple means Kyrie has to bring the ball up every time which is just putting more wear and tear on his shoulders.


I was thinking moreso defensively. We need a defender in the starting unit


I think Toronto and Brooklyn could make good trading partners given each teams current needs.

Some kind of Powell and Levert swap makes a ton of sense for both teams. Powell is an efficient off ball scorer and an upgrade defensively. He could guard the tougher backcourt assignment and get his points off spot ups, transition and off ball movement.

Toronto needs shot creation from the perimeter which Levert is better at and hopefully would become more efficient with more talent around him than what he has this past season.

I could see an Ibaka sign and trade working as well with Allen and filler going the other way. No point having both Allen and DJ on the roster when they are redundant. Allen will be due for an extension anyway and KD would probably prefer his good friend with playoff experience and a more versatile game.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2044 » by 7footMONSTER » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:02 pm

What do you guys think of Justin Holiday?

6’6 180 lbs 31 years old

-40.5% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game

-538 had him tied with Jrue (and Jarrett Allen) as the 27th best defensive player in the league

-BBall-Ref DBPM 1.8 which was the 16th best

The most we can offer is 3 years $5.7 million (if the cap stays the same). Is he in our price range?

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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2045 » by 7footMONSTER » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:16 pm

dalton749 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:
Kyrie is really good off ball.

Catch and Shoot 3’s

2017 47% on 2.4 attempts
2018 40% on 3 attempts
2019 45.4% on 3.3 attempts
2020 46% on 2 attempts

Din and Vert are much better at finding open teammates than Temple. Temple can’t take advantage of 4 on 3’s when one of our stars are being doubled.

Plus, Kyrie just had shoulder surgery. Starting Temple means Kyrie has to bring the ball up every time which is just putting more wear and tear on his shoulders.


I was thinking moreso defensively. We need a defender in the starting unit


I think Toronto and Brooklyn could make good trading partners given each teams current needs.

Some kind of Powell and Levert swap makes a ton of sense for both teams. Powell is an efficient off ball scorer and an upgrade defensively. He could guard the tougher backcourt assignment and get his points off spot ups, transition and off ball movement.

Toronto needs shot creation from the perimeter which Levert is better at and hopefully would become more efficient with more talent around him than what he has this past season.

I could see an Ibaka sign and trade working as well with Allen and filler going the other way. No point having both Allen and DJ on the roster when they are redundant. Allen will be due for an extension anyway and KD would probably prefer his good friend with playoff experience and a more versatile game.


I like Norman Powell. His defense and shooting would definitely help us, but he only has a year left on his contract.

I think the way the league is going, these 6’6 players like LeVert who can shoot, dribble, and pass are becoming more valuable and harder to find. LeVert can play 1-3. He shot 38% from 3 last year. He can run the offense and make plays for teammates. He can score from all 3 levels (3 pointers, mid range, and in the paint). I think for most Nets fans his upside is way to high to trade now. Plus he’s still young and has 3 years left on his contract.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2046 » by dalton749 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:52 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:
dalton749 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
I was thinking moreso defensively. We need a defender in the starting unit


I think Toronto and Brooklyn could make good trading partners given each teams current needs.

Some kind of Powell and Levert swap makes a ton of sense for both teams. Powell is an efficient off ball scorer and an upgrade defensively. He could guard the tougher backcourt assignment and get his points off spot ups, transition and off ball movement.

Toronto needs shot creation from the perimeter which Levert is better at and hopefully would become more efficient with more talent around him than what he has this past season.

I could see an Ibaka sign and trade working as well with Allen and filler going the other way. No point having both Allen and DJ on the roster when they are redundant. Allen will be due for an extension anyway and KD would probably prefer his good friend with playoff experience and a more versatile game.


I like Norman Powell. His defense and shooting would definitely help us, but he only has a year left on his contract.

I think the way the league is going, these 6’6 players like LeVert who can shoot, dribble, and pass are becoming more valuable and harder to find. LeVert can play 1-3. He shot 38% from 3 last year. He can run the offense and make plays for teammates. He can score from all 3 levels (3 pointers, mid range, and in the paint). I think for most Nets fans his upside is way to high to trade now. Plus he’s still young and has 3 years left on his contract.


I don’t think Nets should be worrying about how many years are left on a contract. They’ll be contenders and therefore shouldn’t have much problems getting a guy to resign.

Levert definitely has value in what he brings but that value will likely take a huge hit when kyrie comes back. We’ve seen it in Boston how guys who needed the ball to be effective struggled along side him.

Since they would both be moving into starting roles, I’m going to use their numbers as starters this season to make this comparison.

Powell(26):
26 Games played
31 mpg
19/4/2 on 52/44/84 - TS .653% - USG 21.7%

Levert(25):
31 games played
33 mpg
22/5/5 on 45/37/73 - TS .538% USG 30.1%

To me it looks like Powell’s number are much more transferable to a lineup that includes kyrie and kd than Levert’s will be. When you cut that usg down significantly, how does he contribute meaningfully? His defense isn’t great and he hasn’t proven to be particularly efficient so he likely won’t hold a lot of value beyond being their 6th man. As a starter, I imagine that most of his mid range attempts will disappear as he won’t be creating as much at which point you then have Powell’s shot profile of threes and layups coming mostly from offball movement and transition.

It seems like one of those rare moves where both guys make the other team better as Toronto could use some more onball shot creation which we seen by vanvleet trying to iso all the time with poor results against boston in the playoffs.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2047 » by Hello Brooklyn » Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:15 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:What do you guys think of Justin Holiday?

6’6 180 lbs 31 years old

-40.5% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game

-538 had him tied with Jrue (and Jarrett Allen) as the 27th best defensive player in the league

-BBall-Ref DBPM 1.8 which was the 16th best

The most we can offer is 3 years $5.7 million (if the cap stays the same). Is he in our price range?



I think Holiday would be a great option. I would definitely add him.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2048 » by MGrand15 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:32 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:What do you guys think of Justin Holiday?

6’6 180 lbs 31 years old

-40.5% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game

-538 had him tied with Jrue (and Jarrett Allen) as the 27th best defensive player in the league

-BBall-Ref DBPM 1.8 which was the 16th best

The most we can offer is 3 years $5.7 million (if the cap stays the same). Is he in our price range?



There were a couple FAs I didn't include in my list because I figured they'd be out of our price range. Holiday was one of them but I might have been overrating him. This was definitely an outlier year for Holiday. I don't think he'll get paid big money considering this is his first year shooting over 36% from 3, first year above average TS%, etc. He's more of a streaky roleplayer than a legit 3+D option.

I think there's a chance someone like Justin or even a more established vet like Gallinari take a paycut to come play for us. Anyone that's 30+ might take a pay cut to play for a contender. Even more likely if we end up trading for Jrue.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2049 » by DarkXaero » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:52 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:What do you guys think of Justin Holiday?

6’6 180 lbs 31 years old

-40.5% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game

-538 had him tied with Jrue (and Jarrett Allen) as the 27th best defensive player in the league

-BBall-Ref DBPM 1.8 which was the 16th best

The most we can offer is 3 years $5.7 million (if the cap stays the same). Is he in our price range?

I like him a lot as a backup for us but he'll have offers better than ours.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2050 » by 7footMONSTER » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:00 pm

MGrand15 wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:What do you guys think of Justin Holiday?

6’6 180 lbs 31 years old

-40.5% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game

-538 had him tied with Jrue (and Jarrett Allen) as the 27th best defensive player in the league

-BBall-Ref DBPM 1.8 which was the 16th best

The most we can offer is 3 years $5.7 million (if the cap stays the same). Is he in our price range?



There were a couple FAs I didn't include in my list because I figured they'd be out of our price range. Holiday was one of them but I might have been overrating him. This was definitely an outlier year for Holiday. I don't think he'll get paid big money considering this is his first year shooting over 36% from 3, first year above average TS%, etc. He's more of a streaky roleplayer than a legit 3+D option.

I think there's a chance someone like Justin or even a more established vet like Gallinari take a paycut to come play for us. Anyone that's 30+ might take a pay cut to play for a contender. Even more likely if we end up trading for Jrue.


Gallinari will get more than the Tax Payer MLE. The Clippers, Lakers, Jazz, Mavs all have the Full MLE available.

There aren’t any good backup 4’s available so if we put Prince at backup PF, our depth chart would look something like this:

Kyrie / LeVert / Harris / KD / DJ
Dinwiddie / Temple / TLC / Prince / Allen

Holiday could replace TLC or Temple.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2051 » by 7footMONSTER » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:19 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:What do you guys think of Justin Holiday?

6’6 180 lbs 31 years old

-40.5% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game

-538 had him tied with Jrue (and Jarrett Allen) as the 27th best defensive player in the league

-BBall-Ref DBPM 1.8 which was the 16th best

The most we can offer is 3 years $5.7 million (if the cap stays the same). Is he in our price range?

I like him a lot as a backup for us but he'll have offers better than ours.


How much do you think he will get?
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2052 » by DarkXaero » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:54 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:What do you guys think of Justin Holiday?

6’6 180 lbs 31 years old

-40.5% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game

-538 had him tied with Jrue (and Jarrett Allen) as the 27th best defensive player in the league

-BBall-Ref DBPM 1.8 which was the 16th best

The most we can offer is 3 years $5.7 million (if the cap stays the same). Is he in our price range?

I like him a lot as a backup for us but he'll have offers better than ours.


How much do you think he will get?
Most likely $8-9 mill/yr on a 3 year deal or so.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2053 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:59 pm

Holiday would be a solid addition but I doubt we can offer him market value.

I'm telling yall, I don't necessarily think Temple is leaving.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2054 » by DarkXaero » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:01 am

7footMONSTER wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:What do you guys think of Justin Holiday?

6’6 180 lbs 31 years old

-40.5% from 3 on 4.5 attempts per game

-538 had him tied with Jrue (and Jarrett Allen) as the 27th best defensive player in the league

-BBall-Ref DBPM 1.8 which was the 16th best

The most we can offer is 3 years $5.7 million (if the cap stays the same). Is he in our price range?



There were a couple FAs I didn't include in my list because I figured they'd be out of our price range. Holiday was one of them but I might have been overrating him. This was definitely an outlier year for Holiday. I don't think he'll get paid big money considering this is his first year shooting over 36% from 3, first year above average TS%, etc. He's more of a streaky roleplayer than a legit 3+D option.

I think there's a chance someone like Justin or even a more established vet like Gallinari take a paycut to come play for us. Anyone that's 30+ might take a pay cut to play for a contender. Even more likely if we end up trading for Jrue.


Gallinari will get more than the Tax Payer MLE. The Clippers, Lakers, Jazz, Mavs all have the Full MLE available.

There aren’t any good backup 4’s available so if we put Prince at backup PF, our depth chart would look something like this:

Kyrie / LeVert / Harris / KD / DJ
Dinwiddie / Temple / TLC / Prince / Allen

Holiday could replace TLC or Temple.
Agree with Gallo getting a lot more than the tax payer MLE but Clippers won't have the full MLE with their cap holds unless they renounce Marcus Morris, Harrell. I don't think the Lakers will have the full MLE either because AD will opt out to become a FA, and his cap hold will be enormous.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2055 » by DarkXaero » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:24 am

Speaking of full MLE, if we dump Prince using the 19th pick for cap, decline Temple's option, and renounce a few other cap holds, how close does that get us to having a full MLE? This is assuming that we keep Joe Harris ($14.5 mill), Tyler Johnson ($1.7 mill), and maybe Chris Chiozza ($1.5 mill) cap holds.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2056 » by Hello Brooklyn » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:46 am

DarkXaero wrote:Speaking of full MLE, if we dump Prince using the 19th pick for cap, decline Temple's option, and renounce a few other cap holds, how close does that get us to having a full MLE? This is assuming that we keep Joe Harris ($14.5 mill), Tyler Johnson ($1.7 mill), and maybe Chris Chiozza ($1.5 mill) cap holds.


You guys are way too low on Prince.

He is better than anyone we can get with the full MLE.

Put him in the right system with a good coach and he can become a 3&D type we need.
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Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2057 » by Paradise » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:23 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:Speaking of full MLE, if we dump Prince using the 19th pick for cap, decline Temple's option, and renounce a few other cap holds, how close does that get us to having a full MLE? This is assuming that we keep Joe Harris ($14.5 mill), Tyler Johnson ($1.7 mill), and maybe Chris Chiozza ($1.5 mill) cap holds.


You guys are way too low on Prince.

He is better than anyone we can get with the full MLE.

Put him in the right system with a good coach and he can become a 3&D type we need.

Yeah, I agree. Dude like him could be our Crowder in the future but I see DX’s point. We could do much better by shedding his contract and targeting someone with the full MLE while retaining Joe, TJ and possibly Cheeze.

I’d only keep TP here if feedback was we had to attach our pick to get him. I think we will steal another quality player at 19. It would be insane to steal Cole Anthony, Hampton or Smith at 19 but it’s seeming quite realistic. I think figuring Prince and his deal out could be hashed out during the deadline.

I just think a backup sneaky core of 19, Claxton, TLC, etc will be what puts us into 50-60 win talk. Adding someone like Jalen Smith, Desmond Bane, Saddiq Bey to Claxton, TLC, Rodi, Re-signed TJ would be an incredible get and we could load management our asses off for the regular season. DJ could play alot less until postseason time.

Depth is going to be huge and I’d hate to sacrifice two young guys for a potential retread vet signing the notable exceptions would be Ibaka, Millsap, etc. Hard to imagine getting them for that cheap unless we pull another AK47 type steal. Cousins, Melo, Batum (assuming bought out via trade) would be the main names I’d assume we would realistically look for.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2058 » by Prokorov » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:27 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:I actually wouldn't mind if we go with Irving/Temple/Harris/KD/DJ or Allen. Temple was asked to do too much and people seem to forget that roleplayers only excel when they are playing off of star players. Same with Prince. If Temple's only job is to defend and space the floor he will be fine.


Kyrie is really good off ball.

Catch and Shoot 3’s

2017 47% on 2.4 attempts
2018 40% on 3 attempts
2019 45.4% on 3.3 attempts
2020 46% on 2 attempts

Din and Vert are much better at finding open teammates than Temple. Temple can’t take advantage of 4 on 3’s when one of our stars are being doubled.

Plus, Kyrie just had shoulder surgery. Starting Temple means Kyrie has to bring the ball up every time which is just putting more wear and tear on his shoulders.


I think KD will bring it up alot. temple also can... our offense is eventually just go to turn into a Kyrie 1-5 pick and roll or durant mid-iso regardless.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2059 » by Prokorov » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:33 pm

Paradise wrote:Yeah, I agree. Dude like him could be our Crowder in the future but I see DX’s point. We could do much better by shedding his contract and targeting someone with the full MLE while retaining Joe, TJ and possibly Cheeze.


We are 7 million over the tax. it makes alot more sense to salary dump musa/krucus (4 million) and renounce Ellison and MArtin (3 million in holds). may also need to renounce chiozza or chandler.

That keeps prince here which is good for 1 talent/depth and 2 his salary is important for us to be able to match salary in a deal for a star player.

if the idea is we want the full MLE, salary dumping price is the wrong path. we lose prince, #19 and salary-matching capability when we could just lose a handful of d-leaguers instead
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#2060 » by Hello Brooklyn » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:43 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Paradise wrote:Yeah, I agree. Dude like him could be our Crowder in the future but I see DX’s point. We could do much better by shedding his contract and targeting someone with the full MLE while retaining Joe, TJ and possibly Cheeze.


We are 7 million over the tax. it makes alot more sense to salary dump musa/krucus (4 million) and renounce Ellison and MArtin (3 million in holds). may also need to renounce chiozza or chandler.

That keeps prince here which is good for 1 talent/depth and 2 his salary is important for us to be able to match salary in a deal for a star player.

if the idea is we want the full MLE, salary dumping price is the wrong path. we lose prince, #19 and salary-matching capability when we could just lose a handful of d-leaguers instead


Why do we even care about being over the tax?

Just for the full MLE? Who exactly are we targeting thats worth just giving up on Kurucs & Musa?
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