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Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#681 » by Prokorov » Mon Jun 8, 2020 3:44 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:According to Wizards fans, and also based on what I've seen, Beal is capable of being a pretty decent defender when he tries. He hasn't tried much this season because of his offensive responsibilities and the defensive personnel around him (terrible). I really don't think Beal is worse than Levert, Dinwiddie or Joe Harris level on defense.


Well, here he won't have to shoulder a high usage on offense so he could focus on defense.

The more i think about it the more excited by the idea of adding him. That's some serious offensive fire power.

I'm not worried about depth so much. These other franchises field super teams and somehow manage to get veterans for scraps. I think Marks will be able to pull this off and field a championship level club in 2020-2021

Exactly.

There will be guys like the Morris Twins who will come here for the BAE or maybe even vet min.

Wilson Chandler is still an option. When he isn't overextended and run into the proverbial ground coming back off one of his many perpetual injuries, he's still a great 10 to 20mpg option for 50 to 60 games a season, minutes based randomly on the matchup and where his head and shot is at that night.

Depending on the trade we'd still have Dinwiddie or Prince as salary filler for a much better player as well. Not someone super valuable on paper trade-wise, but similar value to Dinwiddie or Prince respectively. Maybe someone like Otto Porter, or Terrence Ross or Aaron Gordon.

Temple is also a good defender, and again, he's more effective when his minutes are limited and he's not called on every night though.

Ibaka may come here for taxpayer's MLE.

Avery Bradley
Courtney Lee
Wes Matthews
Alec Burks
MKG
Jae Crowder
Darius Miller
RHJ
Gallo
Harkless

These guys will all likely be out there.


I also love the idea of trying to trade for a guy like Keita Bates-Diop or Jerami Grant from Denver.

How about calling up Detroit on acquiring Luke Kennard?


We should have faith in Marks getting creative and the ring chasers knocking on our door, tbh, this is exciting stuff.



yes to all of this.... especially MKG. bring him home to jersey and reunite him with Kyrie.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#682 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jun 9, 2020 12:43 am

Prokorov wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Well, here he won't have to shoulder a high usage on offense so he could focus on defense.

The more i think about it the more excited by the idea of adding him. That's some serious offensive fire power.

I'm not worried about depth so much. These other franchises field super teams and somehow manage to get veterans for scraps. I think Marks will be able to pull this off and field a championship level club in 2020-2021

Exactly.

There will be guys like the Morris Twins who will come here for the BAE or maybe even vet min.

Wilson Chandler is still an option. When he isn't overextended and run into the proverbial ground coming back off one of his many perpetual injuries, he's still a great 10 to 20mpg option for 50 to 60 games a season, minutes based randomly on the matchup and where his head and shot is at that night.

Depending on the trade we'd still have Dinwiddie or Prince as salary filler for a much better player as well. Not someone super valuable on paper trade-wise, but similar value to Dinwiddie or Prince respectively. Maybe someone like Otto Porter, or Terrence Ross or Aaron Gordon.

Temple is also a good defender, and again, he's more effective when his minutes are limited and he's not called on every night though.

Ibaka may come here for taxpayer's MLE.

Avery Bradley
Courtney Lee
Wes Matthews
Alec Burks
MKG
Jae Crowder
Darius Miller
RHJ
Gallo
Harkless

These guys will all likely be out there.


I also love the idea of trying to trade for a guy like Keita Bates-Diop or Jerami Grant from Denver.

How about calling up Detroit on acquiring Luke Kennard?


We should have faith in Marks getting creative and the ring chasers knocking on our door, tbh, this is exciting stuff.



yes to all of this.... especially MKG. bring him home to jersey and reunite him with Kyrie.



100% in on reuniting MKG and Irving. We need a wing defender
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#683 » by DarkXaero » Tue Jun 9, 2020 7:09 pm

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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#684 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jun 9, 2020 7:33 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
Read on Twitter
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Welp, Shams is reputable as they come so i'll consider this fact.

My thing about Dinwiddie not liking the offense is...why? Dude averaged 21 and 7. the offense worked for him. Hell when Kyrie was healthy he was dropping god level statlines. I guess it doesn't really matter. I wonder what kind of offense will appease them?

and Shams confirms what I have been saying: Jordan starting is the elephant in the room. We aren't going to see an upgrade at center.

I welcome a Bradley Beal trade, if he wants to be here lets do it.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#685 » by DarkXaero » Tue Jun 9, 2020 9:00 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Welp, Shams is reputable as they come so i'll consider this fact.

My thing about Dinwiddie not liking the offense is...why? Dude averaged 21 and 7. the offense worked for him. Hell when Kyrie was healthy he was dropping god level statlines. I guess it doesn't really matter. I wonder what kind of offense will appease them?

and Shams confirms what I have been saying: Jordan starting is the elephant in the room. We aren't going to see an upgrade at center.

I welcome a Bradley Beal trade, if he wants to be here lets do it.
It's more or less a repeat of what Shams said in his original article post Kenny leaving. It's a combination of issues that led to Kenny leaving, and Shams emphasized Kenny's "free for all" offense being an issue with KD, Kyrie, Spencer, and other prominent players. The lack of clear pecking order was a problem, and my guess is that just like the fans, Kyrie, KD, Spencer didn't enjoy the likes of Prince, Temple, Musa, Pinson etc. chucking up bad shots.

Bradley Beal trade depends on Bradley Beal. If he wants to be here, he can force his way here, because we have the assets. Otherwise, it's not happening. Either way, that situation will develop next season when Wall is back, and Beal & the Wizards see how they look.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#686 » by Stone » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:10 am

So without playing a game for him...KD got Kenny canned.....SMH
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#687 » by TheNetsFan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:47 am

DarkXaero wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Welp, Shams is reputable as they come so i'll consider this fact.

My thing about Dinwiddie not liking the offense is...why? Dude averaged 21 and 7. the offense worked for him. Hell when Kyrie was healthy he was dropping god level statlines. I guess it doesn't really matter. I wonder what kind of offense will appease them?

and Shams confirms what I have been saying: Jordan starting is the elephant in the room. We aren't going to see an upgrade at center.

I welcome a Bradley Beal trade, if he wants to be here lets do it.
It's more or less a repeat of what Shams said in his original article post Kenny leaving. It's a combination of issues that led to Kenny leaving, and Shams emphasized Kenny's "free for all" offense being an issue with KD, Kyrie, Spencer, and other prominent players. The lack of clear pecking order was a problem, and my guess is that just like the fans, Kyrie, KD, Spencer didn't enjoy the likes of Prince, Temple, Musa, Pinson etc. chucking up bad shots.

Bradley Beal trade depends on Bradley Beal. If he wants to be here, he can force his way here, because we have the assets. Otherwise, it's not happening. Either way, that situation will develop next season when Wall is back, and Beal & the Wizards see how they look.

The pecking order issue is all Dinwiddie. He thinks he's third in line behind KD and Kyrie. Everyone and their mother knows that when they play KD and Kyrie are 1&2. With both of them out, Dinwidy felt he should be the alpha taking the last shot. Not LeVert, not Harris. This was not about Prince and the end of bench guys taking shots. We saw Dinwiddie freeze out Russell last year. He still doesn't grasp his place. This is about guys like Dinwiddie and Jordan wanting to be #3&4 instead of being in the 5-8 range.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#688 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:55 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Welp, Shams is reputable as they come so i'll consider this fact.

My thing about Dinwiddie not liking the offense is...why? Dude averaged 21 and 7. the offense worked for him. Hell when Kyrie was healthy he was dropping god level statlines. I guess it doesn't really matter. I wonder what kind of offense will appease them?

and Shams confirms what I have been saying: Jordan starting is the elephant in the room. We aren't going to see an upgrade at center.

I welcome a Bradley Beal trade, if he wants to be here lets do it.
It's more or less a repeat of what Shams said in his original article post Kenny leaving. It's a combination of issues that led to Kenny leaving, and Shams emphasized Kenny's "free for all" offense being an issue with KD, Kyrie, Spencer, and other prominent players. The lack of clear pecking order was a problem, and my guess is that just like the fans, Kyrie, KD, Spencer didn't enjoy the likes of Prince, Temple, Musa, Pinson etc. chucking up bad shots.

Bradley Beal trade depends on Bradley Beal. If he wants to be here, he can force his way here, because we have the assets. Otherwise, it's not happening. Either way, that situation will develop next season when Wall is back, and Beal & the Wizards see how they look.

The pecking order issue is all Dinwiddie. He thinks he's third in line behind KD and Kyrie. Everyone and their mother knows that when they play KD and Kyrie are 1&2. With both of them out, Dinwidy felt he should be the alpha taking the last shot. Not LeVert, not Harris. This was not about Prince and the end of bench guys taking shots. We saw Dinwiddie freeze out Russell last year. He still doesn't grasp his place. This is about guys like Dinwiddie and Jordan wanting to be #3&4 instead of being in the 5-8 range.


I mean, we know that Spencer is definitely feeling himself, which isn't a bad thing per say, but this whole pecking order stuff I don't get. I'm not sure how he can be upset that LeVert gets usage, he's literally the only other guy on the team that is skilled enough to create his own shot! Once teams started packing the paint, Spencer was fairly easy for opponents to shut down.

I personally don't believe any of that comes from Kyrie. When Kyrie was on the floor the ball was in his hands and he was dominant. With him out, Spencer has had ample opportunities. What more does he want? He's averaged 20 and 7, and it really hasn't been very efficiently at that.

I like Spencer a lot, but I feel like he really stabbed Kenny in the back. It is what it is.

I'm over it. I'll be rooting for Vaughn to hang on if he does a good job.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#689 » by MGrand15 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:08 pm

JJ Redick said on his podcast that when guys complain about not knowing their role - it usually means they just don't like their role. DJ wanted to start and finish games. Dinwiddie wanted to be clear cut option 2 (or 1 when Ky was out). I'm sure there was friction from Chandler because of Prince starting while playing awful. A lot of the complaints just don't hold up based on what vets like Dudley have said about Kenny + his experience here.

The offense was legitimately elite when Kyrie was on the floor. Would've been good for 2nd in the league. So I'm guessing the guys just didn't mesh with Kenny from the start. At this level, winning cures everything and losing blows it up.

It is what it is. I doubt Vaughn has a legit shot unless we strike out on everyone. Whatever he does this year without Kyrie doesn't really matter.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#690 » by DarkXaero » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:14 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Welp, Shams is reputable as they come so i'll consider this fact.

My thing about Dinwiddie not liking the offense is...why? Dude averaged 21 and 7. the offense worked for him. Hell when Kyrie was healthy he was dropping god level statlines. I guess it doesn't really matter. I wonder what kind of offense will appease them?

and Shams confirms what I have been saying: Jordan starting is the elephant in the room. We aren't going to see an upgrade at center.

I welcome a Bradley Beal trade, if he wants to be here lets do it.
It's more or less a repeat of what Shams said in his original article post Kenny leaving. It's a combination of issues that led to Kenny leaving, and Shams emphasized Kenny's "free for all" offense being an issue with KD, Kyrie, Spencer, and other prominent players. The lack of clear pecking order was a problem, and my guess is that just like the fans, Kyrie, KD, Spencer didn't enjoy the likes of Prince, Temple, Musa, Pinson etc. chucking up bad shots.

Bradley Beal trade depends on Bradley Beal. If he wants to be here, he can force his way here, because we have the assets. Otherwise, it's not happening. Either way, that situation will develop next season when Wall is back, and Beal & the Wizards see how they look.

The pecking order issue is all Dinwiddie. He thinks he's third in line behind KD and Kyrie. Everyone and their mother knows that when they play KD and Kyrie are 1&2. With both of them out, Dinwidy felt he should be the alpha taking the last shot. Not LeVert, not Harris. This was not about Prince and the end of bench guys taking shots. We saw Dinwiddie freeze out Russell last year. He still doesn't grasp his place. This is about guys like Dinwiddie and Jordan wanting to be #3&4 instead of being in the 5-8 range.
I've seen Dinwiddie defer to Levert, so I don't know how true this is. Also if Dinwiddie thinks he's 3rd in line after KD and Kyrie, he's right to think so. He has proven himself to be the 3rd best option on this team, and over the last two years, he has been clearly better/more consistent than Levert. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Levert has the higher upside, and can have hot stretches, but there's no consistency. I also didn't see Dinwiddie freeze out D Lo last year. D Lo was clearly above him in shot attempts and overall usage, even though Dinwiddie was the more efficient player.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#691 » by kamaze » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:47 pm

The offense didn't work the offense would still be ranked in the 20s regardless of the personnel because the 3 pointer is a low percentage shot. A team will score more points taking 3s bc of math but it's still a low percentage shot analytics can't change that. Kenny was too stubborn not listening to his players that's why he got fired.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#692 » by Prokorov » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:19 am

kamaze wrote:The offense didn't work the offense would still be ranked in the 20s regardless of the personnel because the 3 pointer is a low percentage shot. A team will score more points taking 3s bc of math but it's still a low percentage shot analytics can't change that. Kenny was too stubborn not listening to his players that's why he got fired.


The top 10 teams in 3 point attempts count for 8 of the top 10 offenses.

and im not sure how you can say the offense would be ranked in the 20s "regardless of personnel" when its was #2 with Kyrie in the lineup
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#693 » by GTR11 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:19 am

Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:The offense didn't work the offense would still be ranked in the 20s regardless of the personnel because the 3 pointer is a low percentage shot. A team will score more points taking 3s bc of math but it's still a low percentage shot analytics can't change that. Kenny was too stubborn not listening to his players that's why he got fired.


The top 10 teams in 3 point attempts count for 8 of the top 10 offenses.

and im not sure how you can say the offense would be ranked in the 20s "regardless of personnel" when its was #2 with Kyrie in the lineup

It amazes me how you come up with different conspiracy theories from all over, yet manage not to understand basic point. Kyrie is a mid-range monster who happens to be great 3 pt threat, however that's not his game. You didn't read Shams piece right ( not that I agree with that ). Also Kamaze saying that Kenny's playbook was limited. Drive to the basket and shoot 3's can get you only that far, how's that been working out in Houston.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#694 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:05 pm

MGrand15 wrote:JJ Redick said on his podcast that when guys complain about not knowing their role - it usually means they just don't like their role. DJ wanted to start and finish games. Dinwiddie wanted to be clear cut option 2 (or 1 when Ky was out). I'm sure there was friction from Chandler because of Prince starting while playing awful. A lot of the complaints just don't hold up based on what vets like Dudley have said about Kenny + his experience here.

The offense was legitimately elite when Kyrie was on the floor. Would've been good for 2nd in the league. So I'm guessing the guys just didn't mesh with Kenny from the start. At this level, winning cures everything and losing blows it up.

It is what it is. I doubt Vaughn has a legit shot unless we strike out on everyone. Whatever he does this year without Kyrie doesn't really matter.


Chandler doesn't have much of a leg to stand on since he wasn't that much better than Prince.

I still say Prince with a simplified role will be a much better player next season if he's still here. His biggest flaws are team defense and trying to do too much.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#695 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:10 pm

Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:The offense didn't work the offense would still be ranked in the 20s regardless of the personnel because the 3 pointer is a low percentage shot. A team will score more points taking 3s bc of math but it's still a low percentage shot analytics can't change that. Kenny was too stubborn not listening to his players that's why he got fired.


The top 10 teams in 3 point attempts count for 8 of the top 10 offenses.

and im not sure how you can say the offense would be ranked in the 20s "regardless of personnel" when its was #2 with Kyrie in the lineup


Yep, the offense was elite before Kyrie went down with the shoulder issue.

Also, mid range jumpers aren't exactly efficient shots. I am not against them being taken because I believe in take what the opponent gives you, but acting like they are better than uncontested threes is really reaching.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#696 » by therealbig3 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:52 pm

GTR11 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:The offense didn't work the offense would still be ranked in the 20s regardless of the personnel because the 3 pointer is a low percentage shot. A team will score more points taking 3s bc of math but it's still a low percentage shot analytics can't change that. Kenny was too stubborn not listening to his players that's why he got fired.


The top 10 teams in 3 point attempts count for 8 of the top 10 offenses.

and im not sure how you can say the offense would be ranked in the 20s "regardless of personnel" when its was #2 with Kyrie in the lineup

It amazes me how you come up with different conspiracy theories from all over, yet manage not to understand basic point. Kyrie is a mid-range monster who happens to be great 3 pt threat, however that's not his game. You didn't read Shams piece right ( not that I agree with that ). Also Kamaze saying that Kenny's playbook was limited. Drive to the basket and shoot 3's can get you only that far, how's that been working out in Houston.


Houston has been one of the elite teams in the league the last few years and were a CP3 injury away from upsetting the Curry-KD Warriors and likely winning the title 2 years ago.

Not winning the championship doesn't mean they're not successful or just flat out incapable of winning a championship. That's some crazy oversimplification to try and justify a narrative.

You guys are literally arguing against math. That's not a good look.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#697 » by 7footMONSTER » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:02 pm

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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#698 » by GTR11 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:58 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
GTR11 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
The top 10 teams in 3 point attempts count for 8 of the top 10 offenses.

and im not sure how you can say the offense would be ranked in the 20s "regardless of personnel" when its was #2 with Kyrie in the lineup

It amazes me how you come up with different conspiracy theories from all over, yet manage not to understand basic point. Kyrie is a mid-range monster who happens to be great 3 pt threat, however that's not his game. You didn't read Shams piece right ( not that I agree with that ). Also Kamaze saying that Kenny's playbook was limited. Drive to the basket and shoot 3's can get you only that far, how's that been working out in Houston.


Houston has been one of the elite teams in the league the last few years and were a CP3 injury away from upsetting the Curry-KD Warriors and likely winning the title 2 years ago.

Not winning the championship doesn't mean they're not successful or just flat out incapable of winning a championship. That's some crazy oversimplification to try and justify a narrative.

You guys are literally arguing against math. That's not a good look.

Houston been massive disaster ever since D'Antoni been hired, you fooling yourself believing otherwise. If you not first you're last and be mocked as a loser for the rest of your life. Could've would've should've is for losers looking for an excuse.
Analytics have to be used to improve player/team quality. There is way more to the game than just plain #'s. Most get confused and forget basics. Most efficient shots lay ups and open 3's right? What analytics say when teams take that away? There you go.
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#699 » by kamaze » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:36 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
GTR11 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
The top 10 teams in 3 point attempts count for 8 of the top 10 offenses.

and im not sure how you can say the offense would be ranked in the 20s "regardless of personnel" when its was #2 with Kyrie in the lineup

It amazes me how you come up with different conspiracy theories from all over, yet manage not to understand basic point. Kyrie is a mid-range monster who happens to be great 3 pt threat, however that's not his game. You didn't read Shams piece right ( not that I agree with that ). Also Kamaze saying that Kenny's playbook was limited. Drive to the basket and shoot 3's can get you only that far, how's that been working out in Houston.


Houston has been one of the elite teams in the league the last few years and were a CP3 injury away from upsetting the Curry-KD Warriors and likely winning the title 2 years ago.

Not winning the championship doesn't mean they're not successful or just flat out incapable of winning a championship. That's some crazy oversimplification to try and justify a narrative.

You guys are literally arguing against math. That's not a good look.


The Nets arent as good as Houston they just run a similar offense
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Re: Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season 

Post#700 » by GTR11 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:39 pm

kamaze wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
GTR11 wrote:It amazes me how you come up with different conspiracy theories from all over, yet manage not to understand basic point. Kyrie is a mid-range monster who happens to be great 3 pt threat, however that's not his game. You didn't read Shams piece right ( not that I agree with that ). Also Kamaze saying that Kenny's playbook was limited. Drive to the basket and shoot 3's can get you only that far, how's that been working out in Houston.


Houston has been one of the elite teams in the league the last few years and were a CP3 injury away from upsetting the Curry-KD Warriors and likely winning the title 2 years ago.

Not winning the championship doesn't mean they're not successful or just flat out incapable of winning a championship. That's some crazy oversimplification to try and justify a narrative.

You guys are literally arguing against math. That's not a good look.


The Nets arent as good as Houston they just run a similar offense

Oh we're much much better team right now. Also have confidence knowing D'Antoni ain't coaching, so chances look way better.

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