What's up with Levert?

Prokorov · Post #1 » by **Prokorov** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:21 pm

I know I haven't been Levert's biggest superfan here but i Just watched the knicks game and second half of detroit again and the dude seems like he just isn't right:

-His Defensive effort is almost non-assistant. I always thought he was a subpar defender, mostly because of his inability to defend around screens, but he always at least seemed active and got in pasing lanes and ran back on D. now he is jogging alot, standing and watching alot and his D when he is screened is really hard to watch

-Offensively, again he was never a great finisher, but he is basically looking more like pinson, which we no, is not good. He is shooting 40.1% from 0-3 feet. His overall FG% is 38.5%, which isnt alone the end of the world... if he wa s a3point specialist shooting 38% from three where he had few 2s that FG% wouldnt be as bad, but he has 10 2-point FG attemps a game.

His TS% is 46.7%. that is alarming. Especially given he has been ok from three.

I didnt expect him to b a 20/5/5 guy, but he has gone in the wrong direction coming off a season where he already didnt shoot or score well.

He had a thumb injury but is having the type of season you'd expect coming of an ACL or an achilles. he isnt the kind of guy who would get paid then dog it, so ill throw that out. is it the yips? is this still being impatient? still finding chemsitry?

The hard part about this is his D and turnovers really hurt us while we are being patient with his offense and shooting. if he wa sok there it wouldnt be as rough.

MrDollarBills · Post #2 » by **MrDollarBills** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:44 pm

I have no clue if his thumb is preventing him from finishing but he's not even creating separation off the dribble anymore.

Claud · Post #3 » by **Claud** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:27 pm

Last season was the same thing after coming back from injury.

Took him like 2-3 months to get back to his usual level during the playoffs series vs. Philly.

There's no denying his play has been putrid but I'm hopeful he just needs more time to get everything sorted out.

Hello Brooklyn · Post #4 » by **Hello Brooklyn** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:29 pm

Levert is coming back from injury. I have no worries at all.

You're just overreacting.

ecuhus1981 · Post #5 » by **ecuhus1981** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:50 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:Levert is coming back from injury. I have no worries at all.

You're just overreacting.

Prok, you just got Prok'd! :lol:

Seriously, shouldn't this be merged with the already existing Caris thread?

I do think that his timing and confidence are shaken and he is way better than this, but I don't know anymore if we are the best place for him to realize that potential.

clo12345 · Post #6 » by **clo12345** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:07 pm

He's been a streaky player in the past but I have faith he'll turn it around. I was happy with his effort last night apart from some mental mistakes.

His advanced stats show he's been our worst player by a slight margin. Interestingly Garret Temple's stats are almost as bad with twice the minutes played. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

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MGrand15 · Post #7 » by **MGrand15** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:26 am

No idea. Some of our off-season developments are bewildering to say the least.

I chalked up some of the early struggles to China trip fatigue but it hasn't gotten better. He hasn't been able to get to the rim at all which is why I was so high on him. His explosion just isn't there. His shooting is always streaky but it doesn't matter if he's not getting to the rim, getting out in transition, and making good decisions with the ball.

His defense is worse than I've ever seen it. He used to struggle with PNR but be pretty good and active everywhere else. Now he's getting killed one on one and falling asleep off the ball.

He's always had off WEEKS but man, I always felt like he was getting good looks and just missing. Right now, he's getting nothing good. That's most concerning.

MrDollarBills · Post #8 » by **MrDollarBills** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:27 pm

clo12345 wrote:He's been a streaky player in the past but I have faith he'll turn it around. I was happy with his effort last night apart from some mental mistakes.

His advanced stats show he's been our worst player by a slight margin. Interestingly Garret Temple's stats are almost as bad with twice the minutes played. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

free image hosting sites

Temple imo has been asked to do way too much this season, so I'm going to give him a pass. LeVert however, even despite the injury, has been inexplicably bad.

MrDollarBills · Post #9 » by **MrDollarBills** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:30 pm

MGrand15 wrote:No idea. Some of our off-season developments are bewildering to say the least.

I chalked up some of the early struggles to China trip fatigue but it hasn't gotten better. He hasn't been able to get to the rim at all which is why I was so high on him. His explosion just isn't there. His shooting is always streaky but it doesn't matter if he's not getting to the rim, getting out in transition, and making good decisions with the ball.

His defense is worse than I've ever seen it. He used to struggle with PNR but be pretty good and active everywhere else. Now he's getting killed one on one and falling asleep off the ball.

He's always had off WEEKS but man, I always felt like he was getting good looks and just missing. Right now, he's getting nothing good. That's most concerning.

This is what I find the most concerning. His first step wasn't always the quickest but he used to be able to beat the first defender. Now it looks like he can't.

This season is a disaster on several levels and I can only hope this summer can bring us closer to where we need to be as a team vying for a title because this isn't it.

Prokorov · Post #10 » by **Prokorov** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:Levert is coming back from injury. I have no worries at all.

You're just overreacting.

It's possible He may be nursing something we dont know about... like Kyrie had the hamstring injury. I expected struggles but not quite struggling this bad (arguably as bad as Musa/Pinson was) or such low energy/effort.

There isn't a great alternative to eat some of his minutes unless Rodi is back fulltime, he looked good vs the knicks. TLC isnt really a great option.

Prokorov · Post #11 » by **Prokorov** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:50 pm

Claud wrote:Last season was the same thing after coming back from injury.

Took him like 2-3 months to get back to his usual level during the playoffs series vs. Philly.

There's no denying his play has been putrid but I'm hopeful he just needs more time to get everything sorted out.

Philly was such a small sample size though... and a team that stunk defensively vs guards all year. was that levert back or good play ina small sample vs a great matchup?

The good thing is we have a stanglehold on the 8 seed, and just 1 back of the 7th, so we can afford to be patient

Prokorov · Post #12 » by **Prokorov** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:53 pm

clo12345 wrote:He's been a streaky player in the past but I have faith he'll turn it around. I was happy with his effort last night apart from some mental mistakes.

His advanced stats show he's been our worst player by a slight margin. Interestingly Garret Temple's stats are almost as bad with twice the minutes played. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

free image hosting sites

Temple doesnt surprise me. We asked him to be backup poing guard and #2/#3 option for like 20 games. that was never going to be pretty

MrDollarBills · Post #13 » by **MrDollarBills** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:28 pm

Prokorov wrote:
clo12345 wrote:He's been a streaky player in the past but I have faith he'll turn it around. I was happy with his effort last night apart from some mental mistakes.

His advanced stats show he's been our worst player by a slight margin. Interestingly Garret Temple's stats are almost as bad with twice the minutes played. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

free image hosting sites

Temple doesnt surprise me. We asked him to be backup poing guard and #2/#3 option for like 20 games. that was never going to be pretty

I think losing Nwaba was a devastating blow to this team as well. Look at his impact.

clo12345 · Post #14 » by **clo12345** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:23 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
clo12345 wrote:He's been a streaky player in the past but I have faith he'll turn it around. I was happy with his effort last night apart from some mental mistakes.

His advanced stats show he's been our worst player by a slight margin. Interestingly Garret Temple's stats are almost as bad with twice the minutes played. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

free image hosting sites

Temple doesnt surprise me. We asked him to be backup poing guard and #2/#3 option for like 20 games. that was never going to be pretty

I think losing Nwaba was a devastating blow to this team as well. Look at his impact.

Yea for sure he was killing it for us.

No matter what we have 2 years to see how our roster develops with a healthy Durant until we think of making changes. Billy King would have made multiple trades by now lol

Prokorov · Post #15 » by **Prokorov** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:15 pm

clo12345 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Temple doesnt surprise me. We asked him to be backup poing guard and #2/#3 option for like 20 games. that was never going to be pretty

I think losing Nwaba was a devastating blow to this team as well. Look at his impact.

Yea for sure he was killing it for us.

No matter what we have 2 years to see how our roster develops with a healthy Durant until we think of making changes. Billy King would have made multiple trades by now lol

i dont think we have that time. we need to take each year of durant as must win

MrDollarBills · Post #16 » by **MrDollarBills** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:28 pm

Prokorov wrote:
clo12345 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
I think losing Nwaba was a devastating blow to this team as well. Look at his impact.

Yea for sure he was killing it for us.

No matter what we have 2 years to see how our roster develops with a healthy Durant until we think of making changes. Billy King would have made multiple trades by now lol

i dont think we have that time. we need to take each year of durant as must win

This. While Marks isn't probably going to make panic moves, we don't have time to wait for someone to start playing consistently. LeVert absolutely cannot do this next year, we can't afford it.

clo12345 · Post #17 » by **clo12345** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:45 pm

Prokorov wrote:
clo12345 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
I think losing Nwaba was a devastating blow to this team as well. Look at his impact.

Yea for sure he was killing it for us.

No matter what we have 2 years to see how our roster develops with a healthy Durant until we think of making changes. Billy King would have made multiple trades by now lol

i dont think we have that time. we need to take each year of durant as must win

You don't think we can wait 1 more year to see how they play with Durant? I'm confused because I thought you were advocating not making immediate changes.

With Levert we have no choice if he continues playing this bad. He would have no trade value and would have to give up assets to trade him.

Prokorov · Post #18 » by **Prokorov** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:55 am

clo12345 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
clo12345 wrote:Yea for sure he was killing it for us.

No matter what we have 2 years to see how our roster develops with a healthy Durant until we think of making changes. Billy King would have made multiple trades by now lol

i dont think we have that time. we need to take each year of durant as must win

You don't think we can wait 1 more year to see how they play with Durant? I'm confused because I thought you were advocating not making immediate changes.

With Levert we have no choice if he continues playing this bad. He would have no trade value and would have to give up assets to trade him.

I dont think we need major change, i think the pieces fit.... as is. i dont think harris, dinwiddie, temple, jordan, prince, or allen need to improve to be part of a championship core with kyrie and durant.

i dont think the same is true for levert, kurucs, and claxton. kurucs and claxton make peanuts and have small roles. so they are irrelevant. Levert has a big role and makes 10+ million and on top of that is oft injured. i dont think we can waste a 2nd year of durant hoping levert becomes the player we think he is or that he stays healthy.

i think, even just from a consistency standpoint trading levert for an older player who is a slight notch below but healthy might be worth while.

Stone · Post #19 » by **Stone** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:56 pm

This is pure speculation but I do feel this is confidence -yips related. It's not only Levert but it effected Rodi as well. Could the big names we acquired be effecting their play? Last year we had DeAngelo running things. Could they have felt more at ease in that environment? Do they feel inferior and afraid they don't measure up playing along side these top 20 NBA players? Because along with the big names comes more scrutiny.

MrDollarBills · Post #20 » by **MrDollarBills** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:18 pm

Stone wrote:This is pure speculation but I do feel this is confidence -yips related. It's not only Levert but it effected Rodi as well. Could the big names we acquired be effecting their play? Last year we had DeAngelo running things. Could they have felt more at ease in that environment? Do they feel inferior and afraid they don't measure up playing along side these top 20 NBA players? Because along with the big names comes more scrutiny.

LeVert seemed just fine to start the season out though next to Kyrie. Since he's been back he's been a mess.