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therealbig3 wrote:

DarkXaero wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:I liked Kenny a lot, I think he's one of the better coaches in the league.

I'll be honest, my patience with Kyrie is at an all-time low. This has been a bust of a season on his part (yeah, he's been hurt, but he wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he played...a consistent theme of a team playing better without you across multiple seasons in a large sample size is very daming, IDC what anyone says), and I mean, nobody is firing a head coach without the star player being aware of what's going on. At minimum, he didn't exactly go to bat for Kenny and fight for him to stay.

He better put up or shut up next season. For all the trash talk we've gone back and forth with regarding Kemba vs Kyrie...anyone that still takes Kyrie is insane at this point.

I've noticed you over the years having these type of takes and there tends to be a lot of PG blame/overreaction.

In the 20 games Kyrie played this season, he averaged 27.4 PPG, 6.4 APG, 5.2 RPG, 1.4 SPG, with only 2.6 TOV, on efficiency of 59.5% TS%, and 26.3 PER. That puts him among the elite tier of PGs in the league this season. Stats indicate that we're a top 5 offense with him, and a below average offense without him. Metrics also indicate that he has elite offensive impact in the league. This is despite a super frustrating season, where he was injured a lot, and team chemistry issues were apparent, we didn't get to gel as a team with Kyrie. So let's not go there with the "he wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he played", because on an individual basis, the impact was there. Teams haven't been consistently better without him, let's not play into idiotic narratives generated by Celtics fans, and the media.

Secondly, Kyrie IS a better player than Kemba, this is fact. This doesn't mean that Kemba isn't a better fit for the Celtics. Celtics are for now better off with Kemba instead of Kyrie, because Kemba is more willing to take a backseat to Tatum & Brown, who have IMPROVED a lot from last season. But you can compare statistics, raw or advanced, and you can compare team success, Kyrie is FACTUALLY better than Kemba. Third, you're placing blame on Kyrie for Kenny getting fired, when all we really have is a **** reporter saying so. If Kyrie got Kenny fired, why would it be now when he's not even playing for the rest of the season?

Meh, I just try to hold the stars accountable. Kyrie put up nice stats, and he made a strong offensive impact...but we essentially gave everything back on defense when he was on the court as well. Can we say for sure that we can maintain a strong offense with Kyrie without sacrificing the defense? IDK if I can.

Celtics were better without him last year. We've been better without him this year. It's kind of a huge sample size at this point, hand waving it away doesn't really make much sense at this point.

Like I said in a later post, Kemba is like 90% of Kyrie but is actually available. That's what I mean, it's crazy to take Kyrie at this point since he's a guarantee to miss a ton of games, while Kemba has pretty much been an iron man outside of this year and 2015. And he's NEVER involved in off the court drama the way Kyrie is.

I'm also saying that if Kyrie didn't actively ask for Kenny to be fired, he damn sure didn't jump to his defense, and there's no way Kyrie didn't know that it was going down. Kenny wasn't perfect, but he was a really good coach who blatantly overachieved with the talent he's had the last 2 years. Not really sure that having Kyrie is worth losing Kenny.

So what you saying is that teams better without Kyrie and has higher ceiling? I'm really excited to hear how Cavs and Saltics became better team with higher ceiling factually and how their championship expectations grew up.

I mean man just what the **** happened to this season?

Nondescript wrote:I mean man just what the **** happened to this season?

I hear you .... It all started out with so much promise. It was the first time in a long time there was no one dominate team.

The for us, Ky and Nwaba done for the season. Then Vert missed a lot of time.

All those would have, should have could have games we lost...

Then Koby

Now the Kenny drama.

GTR11 wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:

GTR11 wrote:

Read on Twitter

?s=20
I know I know it's crazy. I'm on that hype train though right now. Can you imagine Pop's in BK.

Why would Pop come to a team that just ran Kenny Atkinson out of town?

All yall Kenny haters better get ready for Tyrone Lue.

Pop's know Sean like no other coach out there. Him stepping out and letting someone else take over been a thing for few years now. My guess is that he can come around and help Sean to win while groom future coach. I mean look at this, Spurs come to town and Kenny get fired next day. Of course I'm speculating here but I think there's some legs to it.

I don't see it happening personally.

Nondescript wrote:I mean man just what the **** happened to this season?

this has been a disaster. season ending injuries, locker room turmoil, media drama, multiple losing streaks, the coach gets fired, and most likely a below .500 finish.

MGrand15 wrote:

Shark wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Dinwiddie was one of the players that ran Kenny out of town. He put in a piss poor effort during the Grizzlies and it was painfully obvious that he didn't give a **** during that game. Sad thing is that Kenny believed in him and helped his game reach new levels and the way Dinwiddie decides to repay him is to be a **** **** about it.

Also not happy with our "big 3". DJ wasn't happy because he didn't have a defined role? WTF? You mean being the big that comes off the bench isn't "defined" enough for him? Guess Kenny trusting him to close out some games must have gone to his **** head because I'm pretty sure his role was to be the back up big and to mentor Allen.

And whether or not Kyrie or KD had an active role in Kenny's exit doesn't matter. If they took a back seat and let this happen its not a good look because they decided to come here because they supposedly like what Marks and Kenny had built here. They're supposed to be leaders on this team and for them to just things go south like this is just sad. And its even worse if the opposite is true. Kyrie lives up to his rep around the league as a problem child and KD lives up to his rep as being a snake.

I gotta agree with MDB. If these guys are coming in here to blow everything that's been built here over the last three seasons then they better win fast. Because apparently they think they know better.

Yeah, it's clear the players are floating this "defined role" and "communication" nonsense to try and excuse their garbage play. Dinwiddie, Prince, and DJ are the guys being named. Their day to day role isn't rocket science. They just played like garbage or gave 50% effort.

Apparently Kyrie was mad about the equal opportunity offense? When he's scoring and shooting a career high?

None of the player complaints make sense to me. That tells me guys are just frustrated that they were playing badly or acting like divas.

By "defined roles" and "clear hierarchy" these guys didn't just mean vets start and young guys carry bags, but also that in crunch time there is a clear pecking order in terms of who gets/initiates the last shot. Dinwiddie wants it to be KD-Kyrie-Dinwiddie. He checks out when it was DLo last year or LeVert this year.

Ty Lue sounds like the most likely. Maybe Lakers assistant Handy. I would love Pop but that seems unrealistic although I hope Marks does his due diligence.

vincecarter4pres wrote:

Papi_swav wrote:

halfHAVOC wrote:
I've spoken to Dinwiddie directly and his business manager, all great guys. I had a positive interaction with Dinwiddie, so anything otherwise just seems like some unjustified haterade sippin'

Who are you ? Are u an insider ?

Not to speak for him, but he doesn't post much on here anymore, he's a long time Nets fan and poster on here who's also an emcee. IIrc from JC and/or Edison. He had a video he posted on here recently, I'll try to find it. Never met him in person, but has always been a cool dude on here.

Appreciate that bro. Yeah Long time Nets fan, not an insider, but working on building a sports agency so I've been more in the basketball circles of late, just came across Dinwiddie and his people before is all. I check in on realGM when possible, read more stuff than I post. Tough to be as active these days when I'm not on my computer as much.

Huh... well yeah, I can get what you're saying there MDB (and others) about other fans and other fanbases using this situation to try to rake us over the coals. (no one saw that coming, right!?!)

Like-- I'll admit there's an argument out there that Kyrie & KD had major sway in this stuff, yet literally nothing, and no source of any relevance, claims whatsoever that they were significant players in Kenny's departure. Am I right or am I wrong in that? Who said exactly what, huh?

In fact (unless I'm hugely missing something), such a thing was only ever a possibility for lazy theorists, easily convinced of feel-good (or feel-hateful) rubbish.

Yet here these zombies are, with their brainless narratives, piling up outside the city gates, loudly declaiming that the Nets' system and culture is a lie, a fraud, and that we're a bunch of a-hole apologists or whatever for defending our process.

For my part, it's not just a "fluff them" moment contra other fanbases, it's also a reminder to Nets fans in general to please get over the fact that Kenny basically burned out, here. Yeah... it happened, it's happened before, and it will happen again.

Meanwhile, if you bought in to Sean Marks as a good GM in the first place, and as strengthened through the 'middle-period,' I would hope you realise that he and Kenny did basically everything right, here.

gigantes wrote:Huh... well yeah, I can get what you're saying there MDB (and others) about other fans and other fanbases using this situation to try to rake us over the coals. (no one saw that coming, right!?!)

Like-- I'll admit there's an argument out there that Kyrie & KD had major sway in this stuff, yet literally nothing, and no source of any relevance, claims whatsoever that they were significant players in Kenny's departure. Am I right or am I wrong in that? Who said exactly what, huh?

In fact (unless I'm hugely missing something), such a thing was only ever a possibility for lazy theorists, easily convinced of feel-good (or feel-hateful) rubbish.

Yet here these zombies are, with their brainless narratives, piling up outside the city gates, loudly declaiming that the Nets' system and culture is a lie, a fraud, and that we're a bunch of a-hole apologists or whatever for defending our process.

For my part, it's not just a "fluff them" moment contra other fanbases, it's also a reminder to Nets fans in general to please get over the fact that Kenny basically burned out, here. Yeah... it happened, it's happened before, and it will happen again.

Meanwhile, if you bought in to Sean Marks as a good GM in the first place, and as strengthened through the 'middle-period,' I would hope you realise that he and Kenny did basically everything right, here.

not only that, but the most reliable source to report on this (shams) straight up said "to be clear, KD/Kyrie did not orchestrate or push kenny out"

it seems clear as day it was dinwiddie/jordan as the main guys and the team overall 1 thorugh 17

one good thing. it never got outside the walls... there was no idication there were issues, they kept it in house.

I was wrong for sure, someone said the other day kenny lost the team, i thought it was crazy but clearly it was spot on

gigantes wrote:Huh... well yeah, I can get what you're saying there MDB (and others) about other fans and other fanbases using this situation to try to rake us over the coals. (no one saw that coming, right!?!)

Like-- I'll admit there's an argument out there that Kyrie & KD had major sway in this stuff, yet literally nothing, and no source of any relevance, claims whatsoever that they were significant players in Kenny's departure. Am I right or am I wrong in that? Who said exactly what, huh?

In fact (unless I'm hugely missing something), such a thing was only ever a possibility for lazy theorists, easily convinced of feel-good (or feel-hateful) rubbish.

Yet here these zombies are, with their brainless narratives, piling up outside the city gates, loudly declaiming that the Nets' system and culture is a lie, a fraud, and that we're a bunch of a-hole apologists or whatever for defending our process.

For my part, it's not just a "fluff them" moment contra other fanbases, it's also a reminder to Nets fans in general to please get over the fact that Kenny basically burned out, here. Yeah... it happened, it's happened before, and it will happen again.

Meanwhile, if you bought in to Sean Marks as a good GM in the first place, and as strengthened through the 'middle-period,' I would hope you realise that he and Kenny did basically everything right, here.

Even if you don't believe the reports that Irving and Durant didn't buy in, if they wanted Kenny to be the coach here, he would be. Simple as.

MrDollarBills wrote:
Even if you don't believe the reports that Irving and Durant didn't buy in, if they wanted Kenny to be the coach here, he would be. Simple as.

1) there is no reason NOT to believe the reports. Woj and Shams have nearly flawless track records. they wouldnt put it so definitively in writing if they werent positive it was true.

2) is it a negative indicator of either Kyrie or KD that they didnt fight to save Kenny's job? if the majority of the team seems unhappy, and Kenny himself thinks its better to part ways, why would they want to convince him to stay or convince marks to keep him?

Like say at work you think the boss is ok.... but like 80% of the people who work there are kind of tired of him, he seems to want to bail himself, but you have the power to save him after a big blow up.... why would you fight to keep him?

3) I dispute the idea that if they wanted kenny here he would be.... that assumes kenny wanted to stay, which it looks like he didnt. at firs ti laughed at "mutual decision to part ways" but now that we have more info it seems pretty clear that kenny approached marks to cut ties now, not the other way around

For those of you who believe this was all Kyrie and KD:

7footMONSTER wrote:For those of you who believe this was all Kyrie and KD:

Read on Twitter

are you KD?

Prokorov wrote:

7footMONSTER wrote:For those of you who believe this was all Kyrie and KD:

Read on Twitter

are you KD?

No man.

I’m just a fan who can see the big picture.

7footMONSTER wrote:

Prokorov wrote:

7footMONSTER wrote:For those of you who believe this was all Kyrie and KD:

Read on Twitter

are you KD?

No man.

I’m just a fan who can see the big picture.

ok, so your KD's burner?

KD is a 7 foot monster...

GTR11 wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:

DarkXaero wrote:I've noticed you over the years having these type of takes and there tends to be a lot of PG blame/overreaction.

In the 20 games Kyrie played this season, he averaged 27.4 PPG, 6.4 APG, 5.2 RPG, 1.4 SPG, with only 2.6 TOV, on efficiency of 59.5% TS%, and 26.3 PER. That puts him among the elite tier of PGs in the league this season. Stats indicate that we're a top 5 offense with him, and a below average offense without him. Metrics also indicate that he has elite offensive impact in the league. This is despite a super frustrating season, where he was injured a lot, and team chemistry issues were apparent, we didn't get to gel as a team with Kyrie. So let's not go there with the "he wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he played", because on an individual basis, the impact was there. Teams haven't been consistently better without him, let's not play into idiotic narratives generated by Celtics fans, and the media.

Secondly, Kyrie IS a better player than Kemba, this is fact. This doesn't mean that Kemba isn't a better fit for the Celtics. Celtics are for now better off with Kemba instead of Kyrie, because Kemba is more willing to take a backseat to Tatum & Brown, who have IMPROVED a lot from last season. But you can compare statistics, raw or advanced, and you can compare team success, Kyrie is FACTUALLY better than Kemba. Third, you're placing blame on Kyrie for Kenny getting fired, when all we really have is a **** reporter saying so. If Kyrie got Kenny fired, why would it be now when he's not even playing for the rest of the season?

Meh, I just try to hold the stars accountable. Kyrie put up nice stats, and he made a strong offensive impact...but we essentially gave everything back on defense when he was on the court as well. Can we say for sure that we can maintain a strong offense with Kyrie without sacrificing the defense? IDK if I can.

Celtics were better without him last year. We've been better without him this year. It's kind of a huge sample size at this point, hand waving it away doesn't really make much sense at this point.

Like I said in a later post, Kemba is like 90% of Kyrie but is actually available. That's what I mean, it's crazy to take Kyrie at this point since he's a guarantee to miss a ton of games, while Kemba has pretty much been an iron man outside of this year and 2015. And he's NEVER involved in off the court drama the way Kyrie is.

I'm also saying that if Kyrie didn't actively ask for Kenny to be fired, he damn sure didn't jump to his defense, and there's no way Kyrie didn't know that it was going down. Kenny wasn't perfect, but he was a really good coach who blatantly overachieved with the talent he's had the last 2 years. Not really sure that having Kyrie is worth losing Kenny.

So what you saying is that teams better without Kyrie and has higher ceiling? I'm really excited to hear how Cavs and Saltics became better team with higher ceiling factually and how their championship expectations grew up.

I'm saying the following:

-Kyrie is an excellent player
-however, he's overrated by his box score numbers, because the impact isn't quite that high
-there's plenty of evidence at this point that Kyrie doesn't automatically help every team situation he's in, as evidenced by last year's Celtics and this year's Nets...kind of ties in to the second point about his impact not being as high as his stat line suggests
-obviously, Kyrie helps a team's ceiling, that's not really debatable...having a really talented player on your team obviously improves your potential
-but Kyrie's actual on-court impact has been unimpressive so far to say the least...we're excusing it as a fanbase because of the occasional 50 point game and the pretty stat line and the fact that he's been injured for most of the year, but at the end of the day, he hasn't added much this year, even when he's played
-he's unreliable as a franchise player even beyond the personality issues...he's injury-prone as hell. That's why an inferior player like Kemba (who's only barely inferior btw) is just a much more valuable player, because he's actually available for the most part
-as for the Celtics and Cavs...how exactly did they do worse without Kyrie? The Cavs went to the Finals and got crushed by the Warriors...again. The Celtics are a really good, 50+ win team that has no real shot at winning a title...again

In retrospect, the only reason why we would still take Kyrie over Kemba is because Durant wouldn't have signed with us without Kyrie. But taking that out of the equation, say Durant just wanted another All-Star, didn't matter who, and we had the freedom to choose between Kyrie or Kemba? I'm taking Kemba every day of the week. He's almost as good, plays way more games, and gives you none of the drama.

halfHAVOC wrote:

vincecarter4pres wrote:

Papi_swav wrote:Who are you ? Are u an insider ?

Not to speak for him, but he doesn't post much on here anymore, he's a long time Nets fan and poster on here who's also an emcee. IIrc from JC and/or Edison. He had a video he posted on here recently, I'll try to find it. Never met him in person, but has always been a cool dude on here.

Appreciate that bro. Yeah Long time Nets fan, not an insider, but working on building a sports agency so I've been more in the basketball circles of late, just came across Dinwiddie and his people before is all. I check in on realGM when possible, read more stuff than I post. Tough to be as active these days when I'm not on my computer as much.

Interesting. How did you get into building a sports agency? that's impressive.

7footMONSTER wrote:For those of you who believe this was all Kyrie and KD:

Read on Twitter

KD I'm glad you signed here bro but damn we loved Kenny. I wish it worked out.

I like the all Black look tonight in LA as well. Do some recruiting please