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The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways

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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#321 » by gigantes » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:30 pm

With all due respect, I think this thread is a pretty good example of how even the best posters can inhale their own fumes too much...


What is the actual evidence that Kyrie was a serial malcontent under his HC's?

What is the actual evidence that Kyrie & KD pushed Kenny out?

What is the actual evidence that Joe Tsai (as much as I disapprove of his sh-tty pro-CCP ways) directly fired Kenny?

What is the actual evidence that Kenny didn't get burnt out via general team resistance to his principles?
Combined with him being an admittedly stubborn, 'this is the way we do it' guy?
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#322 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:46 pm

gigantes wrote:With all due respect, I think this thread is a pretty good example of how even the best posters can inhale their own fumes too much...


No need to be passive aggressive.

What is the actual evidence that Kyrie was a serial malcontent under his HC's?


Irving has burned his bridges in both Cleveland and Boston, with both David Blatt and Danny Ainge saying that the dude was unhappy during his time there. Specifically with him being uncoachable, it goes back to him playing under Mike Brown:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19508018/kyrie-irving-says-regrets-relationship-former-cleveland-cavaliers-coach-mike-brown

Cavaliers star Kyrie Irving said Wednesday he has regrets about his relationship with former Cleveland coach Mike Brown, who will now face him in the NBA Finals as the interim head coach of the Golden State Warriors.

"It was a learning experience, to say the least," Irving said. "I kind of regret being part of that, because he was just trying to teach me a lot of things that I didn't necessarily understand as a 21-year-old in the NBA."

Brown coached Irving for one season, in 2013-14, and the two had a rocky relationship as Brown pressed Irving to make changes to his game. At one point in that season, Brown advocated that Irving be traded.

At the end of that season, Brown was fired, in part because the franchise was concerned about Irving's willingness to extend his contract with Brown as the coach


Add this with him not buying into Kenny, who had no trouble with players that we know of prior to this season, it's a safe bet to say that Irving isn't very fun to coach.

What is the actual evidence that Kyrie & KD pushed Kenny out?


They didn't push him out, but by all reports per Sham, they didn't buy in on him. If Kyrie and KD liked Kenny would he be gone? I doubt it. When your top 2 players aren't buying in, the rest of the team isn't going to either.

What is the actual evidence that Joe Tsai (as much as I disapprove of his sh-tty pro-CCP ways) directly fired Kenny?


It was a mutual parting of ways if we're to believe Sean Marks and Sham's reporting. Tsai got involved after Kenny made it clear that they might as well get it over with.

What is the actual evidence that Kenny didn't get burnt out via general team resistance to his principles?
Combined with him being an admittedly stubborn, 'this is the way we do it' guy?


I never said that he didn't? He looked happy after the Spurs game, maybe he was at peace with his decision.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#323 » by Prokorov » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:50 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
gigantes wrote:With all due respect, I think this thread is a pretty good example of how even the best posters can inhale their own fumes too much...


No need to be passive aggressive.

What is the actual evidence that Kyrie was a serial malcontent under his HC's?


Irving has burned his bridges in both Cleveland and Boston, with both David Blatt and Danny Ainge saying that the dude was unhappy during his time there. Specifically with him being uncoachable, it goes back to him playing under Mike Brown:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19508018/kyrie-irving-says-regrets-relationship-former-cleveland-cavaliers-coach-mike-brown

Cavaliers star Kyrie Irving said Wednesday he has regrets about his relationship with former Cleveland coach Mike Brown, who will now face him in the NBA Finals as the interim head coach of the Golden State Warriors.

"It was a learning experience, to say the least," Irving said. "I kind of regret being part of that, because he was just trying to teach me a lot of things that I didn't necessarily understand as a 21-year-old in the NBA."

Brown coached Irving for one season, in 2013-14, and the two had a rocky relationship as Brown pressed Irving to make changes to his game. At one point in that season, Brown advocated that Irving be traded.

At the end of that season, Brown was fired, in part because the franchise was concerned about Irving's willingness to extend his contract with Brown as the coach


Add this with him not buying into Kenny, who had no trouble with players that we know of prior to this season, it's a safe bet to say that Irving isn't very fun to coach.

What is the actual evidence that Kyrie & KD pushed Kenny out?


They didn't push him out, but by all reports per Sham, they didn't buy in on him. If Kyrie and KD liked Kenny would he be gone? I doubt it. When your top 2 players aren't buying in, the rest of the team isn't going to either.

What is the actual evidence that Joe Tsai (as much as I disapprove of his sh-tty pro-CCP ways) directly fired Kenny?


It was a mutual parting of ways if we're to believe Sean Marks and Sham's reporting. Tsai got involved after Kenny made it clear that they might as well get it over with.

What is the actual evidence that Kenny didn't get burnt out via general team resistance to his principles?
Combined with him being an admittedly stubborn, 'this is the way we do it' guy?


I never said that he didn't? He looked happy after the Spurs game, maybe he was at peace with his decision.


if most or the entire team didnt buy into kenny, why in the world would kyrie or KD fight to keep him?
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#324 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:53 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
gigantes wrote:With all due respect, I think this thread is a pretty good example of how even the best posters can inhale their own fumes too much...


No need to be passive aggressive.

What is the actual evidence that Kyrie was a serial malcontent under his HC's?


Irving has burned his bridges in both Cleveland and Boston, with both David Blatt and Danny Ainge saying that the dude was unhappy during his time there. Specifically with him being uncoachable, it goes back to him playing under Mike Brown:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19508018/kyrie-irving-says-regrets-relationship-former-cleveland-cavaliers-coach-mike-brown

Cavaliers star Kyrie Irving said Wednesday he has regrets about his relationship with former Cleveland coach Mike Brown, who will now face him in the NBA Finals as the interim head coach of the Golden State Warriors.

"It was a learning experience, to say the least," Irving said. "I kind of regret being part of that, because he was just trying to teach me a lot of things that I didn't necessarily understand as a 21-year-old in the NBA."

Brown coached Irving for one season, in 2013-14, and the two had a rocky relationship as Brown pressed Irving to make changes to his game. At one point in that season, Brown advocated that Irving be traded.

At the end of that season, Brown was fired, in part because the franchise was concerned about Irving's willingness to extend his contract with Brown as the coach


Add this with him not buying into Kenny, who had no trouble with players that we know of prior to this season, it's a safe bet to say that Irving isn't very fun to coach.

What is the actual evidence that Kyrie & KD pushed Kenny out?


They didn't push him out, but by all reports per Sham, they didn't buy in on him. If Kyrie and KD liked Kenny would he be gone? I doubt it. When your top 2 players aren't buying in, the rest of the team isn't going to either.

What is the actual evidence that Joe Tsai (as much as I disapprove of his sh-tty pro-CCP ways) directly fired Kenny?


It was a mutual parting of ways if we're to believe Sean Marks and Sham's reporting. Tsai got involved after Kenny made it clear that they might as well get it over with.

What is the actual evidence that Kenny didn't get burnt out via general team resistance to his principles?
Combined with him being an admittedly stubborn, 'this is the way we do it' guy?


I never said that he didn't? He looked happy after the Spurs game, maybe he was at peace with his decision.


if most or the entire team didnt buy into kenny, why in the world would kyrie or KD fight to keep him?


Never said that they had to do that though. But it starts with those two, if your stars aren't buying in, that pretty much creates the problem.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#325 » by Prokorov » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:17 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
No need to be passive aggressive.



Irving has burned his bridges in both Cleveland and Boston, with both David Blatt and Danny Ainge saying that the dude was unhappy during his time there. Specifically with him being uncoachable, it goes back to him playing under Mike Brown:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19508018/kyrie-irving-says-regrets-relationship-former-cleveland-cavaliers-coach-mike-brown



Add this with him not buying into Kenny, who had no trouble with players that we know of prior to this season, it's a safe bet to say that Irving isn't very fun to coach.



They didn't push him out, but by all reports per Sham, they didn't buy in on him. If Kyrie and KD liked Kenny would he be gone? I doubt it. When your top 2 players aren't buying in, the rest of the team isn't going to either.



It was a mutual parting of ways if we're to believe Sean Marks and Sham's reporting. Tsai got involved after Kenny made it clear that they might as well get it over with.



I never said that he didn't? He looked happy after the Spurs game, maybe he was at peace with his decision.


if most or the entire team didnt buy into kenny, why in the world would kyrie or KD fight to keep him?


Never said that they had to do that though. But it starts with those two, if your stars aren't buying in, that pretty much creates the problem.


how do you know it starts with them? and really they barely played and there is no evidence ot say otherwise... while shams flat out says they didnt push for it.

there has been alot of unfair things on kyrie. i think this is by far the worst. dude wasnt even present for the blowups in boston and memphis.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#326 » by 7footMONSTER » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:53 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
if most or the entire team didnt buy into kenny, why in the world would kyrie or KD fight to keep him?


Never said that they had to do that though. But it starts with those two, if your stars aren't buying in, that pretty much creates the problem.


how do you know it starts with them? and really they barely played and there is no evidence ot say otherwise... while shams flat out says they didnt push for it.

there has been alot of unfair things on kyrie. i think this is by far the worst. dude wasnt even present for the blowups in boston and memphis.


Players aren’t obligated to go to bat for every coach they come across. The coach has to give the players a reason on why they should believe in him.

Kenny was a nice guy and everything, but this season was a mess. Most blown double digit leads, worst 4th quarter offense, worst in PnR defense... Why would the players risk their careers vouching for someone who they didn’t have any faith in.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#327 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:17 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
if most or the entire team didnt buy into kenny, why in the world would kyrie or KD fight to keep him?


Never said that they had to do that though. But it starts with those two, if your stars aren't buying in, that pretty much creates the problem.


how do you know it starts with them? and really they barely played and there is no evidence ot say otherwise... while shams flat out says they didnt push for it.

there has been alot of unfair things on kyrie. i think this is by far the worst. dude wasnt even present for the blowups in boston and memphis.


Shams said that they weren't buying in on him, no? That fact in itself is cause to believe that they had as much to do with him leaving as everything else. They didn't have to push for it, the knowledge of them not buying in is pretty much the end of it anyway. If this whole thing happened without the information about Irving supposedly souring on Kenny from the door, I would be less inclined to place blame on him/them but between that, them not "feeling" Kenny, and DJ/Spencer pulling this garbage about roles or whining about a starting role, I'm not going to give the players, especially the franchise guys, a pass here. It goes both ways.

Like Coach Pop said about Tim Duncan, it makes it a hell of a lot better your team's best player (s) buy in. They didn't, Kenny's gone, it is what it is. It's been a few days now so I've accepted it and am prepared to move on, but imo it's championship or bust for Durant and Irving. They'll get a coach in here that will kiss their ass and not hold them accountable, because clearly Kenny's way was too rigid for them, even though it produced results the year before with players who actually bought in to the system, so they'd better deliver. It will be interesting to see what offense the next coach will install besides isolate Kyrie and Kevin.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#328 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:24 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Never said that they had to do that though. But it starts with those two, if your stars aren't buying in, that pretty much creates the problem.


how do you know it starts with them? and really they barely played and there is no evidence ot say otherwise... while shams flat out says they didnt push for it.

there has been alot of unfair things on kyrie. i think this is by far the worst. dude wasnt even present for the blowups in boston and memphis.


Players aren’t obligated to go to bat for every coach they come across. The coach has to give the players a reason on why they should believe in him.

Jenny was a nice guy and everything, but this season was a mess. Most blown double digit leads, worst 4th quarter offense, worst in PnR defense... Why would the players risk their careers vouching for someone who they didn’t have any faith in.


So all of that is Kenny's fault? When Spencer commits ill advised turnovers late, or bricks FTs, that's Kenny's fault right? Kyrie not being available is his fault too I guess? Prince's low basketball IQ? Rodi playing like a bitch? Allen playing soft? Joe Harris not knocking down shots at the rate we're used to? LeVert taking damn near the entire season to remember that he's actually a good player? DJ picking and choosing when he wants to play hard?

This isn't all on him, Kevin. I never said he was perfect but to lay the blame on him solely is dishonest as all hell.

and no, the players aren't obligated to go to bat for someone they weren't feeling. it is what it is. When the next coach comes in and we see the same bad habits from the same guys continue, I wonder what will be the excuse then?
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#329 » by 7footMONSTER » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:50 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
how do you know it starts with them? and really they barely played and there is no evidence ot say otherwise... while shams flat out says they didnt push for it.

there has been alot of unfair things on kyrie. i think this is by far the worst. dude wasnt even present for the blowups in boston and memphis.


Players aren’t obligated to go to bat for every coach they come across. The coach has to give the players a reason on why they should believe in him.

Jenny was a nice guy and everything, but this season was a mess. Most blown double digit leads, worst 4th quarter offense, worst in PnR defense... Why would the players risk their careers vouching for someone who they didn’t have any faith in.


So all of that is Kenny's fault? When Spencer commits ill advised turnovers late, or bricks FTs, that's Kenny's fault right? Kyrie not being available is his fault too I guess? Prince's low basketball IQ? Rodi playing like a bitch? Allen playing soft? Joe Harris not knocking down shots at the rate we're used to? LeVert taking damn near the entire season to remember that he's actually a good player? DJ picking and choosing when he wants to play hard?

This isn't all on him, Kevin. I never said he was perfect but to lay the blame on him solely is dishonest as all hell.

and no, the players aren't obligated to go to bat for someone they weren't feeling. it is what it is. When the next coach comes in and we see the same bad habits from the same guys continue, I wonder what will be the excuse then?


It’s not all his fault, but I can’t think of one thing he did this year that gave me any confidence, that in a playoff series down 3-2, he would know what adjustments to make.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#330 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:31 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:
Players aren’t obligated to go to bat for every coach they come across. The coach has to give the players a reason on why they should believe in him.

Jenny was a nice guy and everything, but this season was a mess. Most blown double digit leads, worst 4th quarter offense, worst in PnR defense... Why would the players risk their careers vouching for someone who they didn’t have any faith in.


So all of that is Kenny's fault? When Spencer commits ill advised turnovers late, or bricks FTs, that's Kenny's fault right? Kyrie not being available is his fault too I guess? Prince's low basketball IQ? Rodi playing like a bitch? Allen playing soft? Joe Harris not knocking down shots at the rate we're used to? LeVert taking damn near the entire season to remember that he's actually a good player? DJ picking and choosing when he wants to play hard?

This isn't all on him, Kevin. I never said he was perfect but to lay the blame on him solely is dishonest as all hell.

and no, the players aren't obligated to go to bat for someone they weren't feeling. it is what it is. When the next coach comes in and we see the same bad habits from the same guys continue, I wonder what will be the excuse then?


It’s not all his fault, but I can’t think of one thing he did this year that gave me any confidence, that in a playoff series down 3-2, he would know what adjustments to make.


Fair enough, I hope the next coach is better than he is because if not at some point player accountability won't be able to be ignored
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#331 » by 7footMONSTER » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:09 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
So all of that is Kenny's fault? When Spencer commits ill advised turnovers late, or bricks FTs, that's Kenny's fault right? Kyrie not being available is his fault too I guess? Prince's low basketball IQ? Rodi playing like a bitch? Allen playing soft? Joe Harris not knocking down shots at the rate we're used to? LeVert taking damn near the entire season to remember that he's actually a good player? DJ picking and choosing when he wants to play hard?

This isn't all on him, Kevin. I never said he was perfect but to lay the blame on him solely is dishonest as all hell.

and no, the players aren't obligated to go to bat for someone they weren't feeling. it is what it is. When the next coach comes in and we see the same bad habits from the same guys continue, I wonder what will be the excuse then?


It’s not all his fault, but I can’t think of one thing he did this year that gave me any confidence, that in a playoff series down 3-2, he would know what adjustments to make.


Fair enough, I hope the next coach is better than he is because if not at some point player accountability won't be able to be ignored


Agree. If Kyrie and our next coach start having problems, it will be almost impossible to defend him.

He has to make this work. Hopefully KD and DJ, sit him down and let him know what’s at stake.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#332 » by Stone » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:40 am

7footMONSTER wrote:
Players aren’t obligated to go to bat for every coach they come across. The coach has to give the players a reason on why they should believe in him.

Kenny was a nice guy and everything, but this season was a mess. Most blown double digit leads, worst 4th quarter offense, worst in PnR defense... Why would the players risk their careers vouching for someone who they didn’t have any faith in.[/quote]


I see KD's point on this ......and to be fair, it was not just this season, we were getting the same results last season.

I just looked back at the mid season report cards thread and most of us gave Kenny C's and D's.

What I am mostly disappointed about is that we preached culture and having good quality people on the Nets. And then the face of the franchise is gone. I think most of would like to see a coach here long term, like a George Karl or Jerry Sloan that earns their keep and represents what we want to build.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#333 » by gigantes » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:16 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
gigantes wrote:With all due respect, I think this thread is a pretty good example of how even the best posters can inhale their own fumes too much...

No need to be passive aggressive.

Oh! Well, would the saying 'drunk on their own flatulence' suit things better?

To be clear, you were one of many I was alluding to. There were other views too. Altho if you must know, I consider you a pretty damn excellent poster.

Regardless,
I'll take a look. Thank you.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#334 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:56 pm

7footMONSTER wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
7footMONSTER wrote:
It’s not all his fault, but I can’t think of one thing he did this year that gave me any confidence, that in a playoff series down 3-2, he would know what adjustments to make.


Fair enough, I hope the next coach is better than he is because if not at some point player accountability won't be able to be ignored


Agree. If Kyrie and our next coach start having problems, it will be almost impossible to defend him.

He has to make this work. Hopefully KD and DJ, sit him down and let him know what’s at stake.


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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#335 » by CalamityX12 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:28 pm

Never been to post my reaction here.... as some would know I’ve become suspect of Kenny’s growth on offense over the last two yrs...

But with that said, still shocked that they parted ways... like many my first thoughts were at KD and Irving.... two guys coming from “winning” atmospheres to what we were enduring on the court wasn’t a sight to see despite not having KD nor a reliable Irving for the season....

I think its said best that perhaps Kenny’s voice ran its course. I didn’t see us moving over the hump we were clearly going through. Now would KD have had help?? Heck yea but KD helps ALL offenses... so ..... what does it prove?

But still, something must’ve been big enough to push Kenny out during the run to the playoffs.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#336 » by CalamityX12 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:44 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:I'm really hoping this is our Dwayne Casey for Nick Nurse moment. Turning a good coach into an elite coach.

No idea who we go after but D'Antoni is most likely going to be available in the off-season. Ty Lue is a guy who's coached Kyrie and has a ring. Unless we're going for an under the radar guy, they have to be the top 2 names floating out there.

We're in dangerous territory now. Botching this could be a disaster. Kenny was a good coach put in a very tough situation this year


I'd think it would be Lue.

I'd love if it were becky hammond

You think it’d be fair to Becky? First on the job to coach TWO massive personas/players in the game? While skill set & talent wise it’ll help her out but would they accept her?

Love it for Becky’s first HC job(if) be a fair and reasonable place for her to start her career.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#337 » by CalamityX12 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:56 pm

And if Spencer did have a say in Kenny’s departure(still trying figure which side of the fence I want to be on) seems porous from my POV considering I saw Dinwiddie run a LOT of iso ball in MANY games this season...
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#338 » by CalamityX12 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:00 am

And hell to the **** no on Tyrone Lue... loved how he properly climb the latter to become a HC... he earned that right and honor.

But I wasn’t impressed by him when he took over and enjoyed the win from a letdown of the best nba team in history record wise nor impressed how he failed to pickup the pieces once the all stars left.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#339 » by GTR11 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:45 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:And hell to the **** no on Tyrone Lue... loved how he properly climb the latter to become a HC... he earned that right and honor.

But I wasn’t impressed by him when he took over and enjoyed the win from a letdown of the best nba team in history record wise nor impressed how he failed to pickup the pieces once the all stars left.

LBJ puppets be over hyped while LBJ still relevant. Just look at Fiz.
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Re: The Nets and Kenny Atkinson part ways 

Post#340 » by therealbig3 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:50 pm

Lue is an awful coach.

Say what you want about MDA, but he was the only one that had the Curry-KD Warriors on the ropes and would have beaten them if not for a CP3 injury. I wouldn't mind at all if he came here. We'd have an exciting offense at least and we'd definitely contend.

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