Who'd You Rather? LeVert/Allen/PHI1st for... POLL

[MrDollarBills]

How about this one?

Dinwiddie/Prince/Rodi or Musa/76ers pick/‘21 BK 1st

For

Otto Porter/Chicago ‘20 1st

That's way too much for Otto Porter. Dinwiddie is a better player anyway.

[vincecarter4pres]

How about this one?

Dinwiddie/Prince/Rodi or Musa/76ers pick/‘21 BK 1st

For

Otto Porter/Chicago ‘20 1st

That's way too much for Otto Porter. Dinwiddie is a better player anyway.

It’s more so for the lotto pick.

[MrDollarBills]

How about this one?

Dinwiddie/Prince/Rodi or Musa/76ers pick/‘21 BK 1st

For

Otto Porter/Chicago ‘20 1st

That's way too much for Otto Porter. Dinwiddie is a better player anyway.

It’s more so for the lotto pick.

oh I get it...nah I don't think the Bulls will give us that pick.

[DarkXaero]

How about this one?

Dinwiddie/Prince/Rodi or Musa/76ers pick/‘21 BK 1st

For

Otto Porter/Chicago ‘20 1st

I don't think lotto picks have much value for us at this point, especially in a weak draft like this. only exception is if we are looking to swing that pick in another trade.

[Hello Brooklyn]

How about this one?

Dinwiddie/Prince/Rodi or Musa/76ers pick/‘21 BK 1st

For

Otto Porter/Chicago ‘20 1st

That's way too much for Otto Porter. Dinwiddie is a better player anyway.

It’s more so for the lotto pick.

This draft sucks.

How will some rookie help us more than Dinwiddie this year anyway?

[NyCeEvO]

I would take Harris for Levert and Prince, but only if they included Thybulle as sweetener. I'm really not feeling Tobias' inefficient offense, mediocre defense and gargantuan contract.

We'd be paying Tobias max dollars to be a spot up shooter. I'll pass

Are you serious?

Have you seen that contract?

Max money for a player who has never even made an All Star team.

I wouldn't go near that awful contract.

What Tobias makes doesn't concern me in the slightest. We already have KD and Kyrie taking up 2 max spots of our total team salary cap. Any player who is better than above-average would have us meet the salary cap, so the contract in itself doesn't worry me.

The only issue of concern is the fit of that 3rd player. In other words, whomever we trade CLV/Allen/PHI1st for ought to be the final piece of a genuine Big 3 nucleus.

The question is Tobias a good enough complementary piece to be a 3rd star, not how much money he makes.

On offense, we need as much spot-up shooting as we can afford considering the fact that we have two of the best elite creators in the league. On defense, we also need athleticism and length.

Tobias gives us spot up shooting and a little bit of offensive creativity, but is just meh on defense.

Considering that we'd be giving up an elite rim protector in Allen and a solid point forward who seems to be improving his 3pt shot in Levert, Tobias (or whichever player we decided to trade for) needs to be good enough to replace the impact of what we lost and then some.

So I would say no to the Harris trade, because I don't think his talent level/impact eclipses the combined talent level of Levert and Allen as much as other players do.

Now, if you told me that Harris would be the best player available to the Nets via trade over the next few seasons, I'd have to think much harder about it, since despite losing Allen and Levert, I think we could probably find some pretty agile defenders on the cheap (like what the Raptors have done), and the spacing Harris would get in Brooklyn compared to Philly should allow him to be more efficient on offense and possibly allow him to have more energy to a consistent, better defensive effort than he currently provides for PHI.

I disagree. Having a huge immovable contract hampers out ability to make trades and resign our current players.

Even if we just eat the contract it might come at the cost of not resigning Harris or Dinwiddie in the future.

We may not care about things like the luxury tax. But every owner has a limit on how much they want to spend.

It also stops us from making a better trade when the next all star becomes unhappy and wants to come to Brooklyn.

Harris has not been very good in his stint with Philadelphia and LAC was just as good if not better without him last year.

I'm generally opposed to having bad contracts on the roster. We already have one bad contract with Deandre Jordan. I don't want another one.

I think my post is being misinterpreted. I've always been a person who is conservative with salary cap & seeks to maximize the 'talent/impact-to-salary' ratio, so the team doesn't needlessly overspends and potentially hamstrings themselves with bad contracts. (I was probably one of, if not, the most critical posters on the Joe Johnson trade because I didn't think we were getting enough impact in return for his albatross of a contract.)

The heart of my post was more abstract and focused on the general theory of building a championship team than it was about actually wanting to trade for Harris.

What I was trying to say was that being conscious of cap space and having flexibility should always be an extremely important variable when deciding to complete a trade, EXCEPT (imo) when a team is 1) close to being a championship contender AND 2) the existing contracts on the books already have you extremely close or over the salary cap threshold.

Given those circumstances, (at least for me) the calculation shifts. Since the goal is to win a championship and that team is already a contender or close to being one, I think they should place greater emphasis on the ability of the player they may try to acquire and how they fit on the team and less on the contract. Considering the difficulty of winning a championship and acquiring/keeping stars, when a team is that close to the prize, they should be more liberal with their spending if they believe they are acquiring a player who will put them over the top.

I already said that I wouldn't trade for Harris, but that is primarily due to him not being good enough and less to do with his contract. If he was a better/more impactful player, the prospect of acquiring him would warrant further discussion. However, because the difference between the combined impact of Levert & Allen is so close to (if not, on par with or even less than) Harris' impact, it doesn't make sense to make that trade just by considering that the marginal difference in impact Harris would bring, let alone the financial implications of having his contract on the books would have on the team.

I guess people took my overall non-critical evaluation of Harris' talent as a sign that I would approve a trade, but that isn't the case for me.

The end of my post was just me spitballing about an interesting 'what if' scenario (i.e. if Harris was the best player for whom we could trade while we're in contention, does knowing that alter how one feels about potentially trading or not trading for him). All I was saying was that in that hypothetical situation I would take even more time analyzing whether I'd do the trade, because if you cannot trade for a player better than him, you have to be extremely certain that you're better off not having him at all than you are without him.

In that scenario, I think the Harris detractors are probably still correct. There's probably still a greater chance of improving via internal growth and by acquiring less talented but considerably cheaper players than there would be by acquiring Harris.

[NyCeEvO]

The only player on the market I would seriously want to trade LeVert/Allen/picks for is Beal.

But again I don't see why the Wizards would trade him. They have Wall coming back and Beal committed to resigning.

If I'm the Wizards and I'm already paying Wall, I'd rather just hold on to Beal and make a run at the playoffs.

Now if they start out terribly and things go bad quickly then maybe he demands out. But I think the Wizards will make the playoffs with Beal/Wall in a weak East.

I also think they will probably want a monster haul and can field better offers from teams like Miami or Golden State.

While I'm inclined to agree with you about the Wizards not wanting to deal Beal, I wonder if they (like every other team) is worried about financial viability over the next few years.

There would seem to be less of an incentive to retain popular but expensive stars considering that teams aren't getting revenue from ticket sales. I haven't looked at the breakdown of NBA team finances, but it seems like revenue from ticket sales would not be an insignificant portion of a team's overall operating budget Therefore, if your team isn't good and people can't see your team (or the superstars playing against your team) in person anyway, shouldn't there be a greater incentive 1) to minimize your financial losses during this 2-3 year dip and 2) consider trading away your biggest expenses In Wall and/or Beal?

Wall is probably untradeable considering his injury history and absurd contract, but Beal obviously has value to a lot of teams across the league.

I was in favor of getting him a few years back (and I still would like him on this team). I remember making some detailed posts about how good he was/is and how his consistent year-over-year improvement convinced me that he would be an elite 3rd option on a championship team and could be a very good 2nd option on title or faux title contender.

[NyCeEvO]

How about this one?

Dinwiddie/Prince/Rodi or Musa/76ers pick/‘21 BK 1st

For

Otto Porter/Chicago ‘20 1st

Porter doesn't move the needle enough for me. While Otto's off-ball shooting and defense would be more valuable to us than Diniwiddie's penetration and on-ball creativity with a healthy KD and Kyrie, I'm not certain that KD and Kyrie won't be injury-free going forward. In fact, I think there's a good chance, they'll both probably be load managed for the foreseeable future, and as a result, it would be good to have someone like Dinwiddie who can give us at least a little of the offensive creativity we would want from our PG when Kyrie isn't available.

I also think you can more effectively address the '3&D' skillset Porter possesses by getting several cheap players who are either singularly good at 3s or defending or do a serviceable job at both. 3&D guys are pretty common nowadays. It's much cheaper to find and develop athletic defensive wings (a la the Raptors) who can surround your offensive core and help maintain above-average to elite defensive capabilities than it is sign or trade for one true elite defensive wing.



Plus, the pace of the game is way too fast nowadays for a wing to give maximum defensive effort every single night and still have enough left in the tank at the end of the year.

IMO, Kawhi is probably still the best on-ball wing defender in the league but in order to preserve himself for the end of the season, he no longer plays with max effort on defense. LBJ does the same thing.

If I'm going to invest in defense, give me the elite rim protecting (e.g. AD, Gobert) or a collection of cheap, young, athletic defenders who can be developed into a great defensive unit before the expensive singular 3&D wing. The good 3&D wings seem to decline in impact after a few years anyway, either after getting paid and/or as a result of getting older and no longer being able to play hard defensive every night.

[MrDollarBills]

The asking price has gone up considerably on both players. LeVert is looking like the real deal and Allen has been rock solid. Teams will want to do business if the Nets are selling high.

[Prokorov]

The asking price has gone up considerably on both players. LeVert is looking like the real deal and Allen has been rock solid. Teams will want to do business if the Nets are selling high.

i dont think the price on either has gone up. nothing has really changed with either. allen has played this well or better in the past. and levert still has all the question marks he awlays had. consistency, health, ceiling, defense, lack of finishing/athleticism.

both good pieces. neither is going to be looked at as a cant miss all-star

[therealbig3]

I'm just really high on Allen, would take a lot coming back for me to want to trade him. He's not a big time scorer, but does pretty much everything else extremely well, and is exactly what you're looking for in a non-scoring big man. Can get you 10-15 ppg just with his activity and motor and ability to catch and finish. Combine that with his great rebounding and defense, I think he's going to generally be one of the most underrated players in the league and an All-Star caliber player, even though he won't have the scoring numbers to get in.

I think pretty much every team in the league could use a player like Allen, ESPECIALLY contenders. Dwight Howard comes to mind as someone who pretty much plays like Allen but with more toughness, and he's a key part of the Lakers rotation and will play a big role in their upcoming playoff run.

[MrDollarBills]

The asking price has gone up considerably on both players. LeVert is looking like the real deal and Allen has been rock solid. Teams will want to do business if the Nets are selling high.

i dont think the price on either has gone up. nothing has really changed with either. allen has played this well or better in the past. and levert still has all the question marks he awlays had. consistency, health, ceiling, defense, lack of finishing/athleticism.

both good pieces. neither is going to be looked at as a cant miss all-star

I'm not trading Allen unless it's for a really solid return. I think this crap with DeAndre Jordan needs to be nipped in the bud this offseason, we can't have guys dictating or crying about who starts because they are buddies with the franchise player. If Allen plays like this next season, he should be the full time starter.

[Trader_Joe]

The asking price has gone up considerably on both players. LeVert is looking like the real deal and Allen has been rock solid. Teams will want to do business if the Nets are selling high.

i dont think the price on either has gone up. nothing has really changed with either. allen has played this well or better in the past. and levert still has all the question marks he awlays had. consistency, health, ceiling, defense, lack of finishing/athleticism.

both good pieces. neither is going to be looked at as a cant miss all-star

Since March 1st LeVerts stats are insanely good with several impressive wins on his resume. He's never had an extended period of personal and team success like this. Allen has shown the demotion motivated him while he's passing like never before and hitting free throws above 80%. Multiple journalists/NBA guys are taking note on Twitter meaning so are coaches, GMs, players and fans. The fact the Nets are winning with LeVert, Allen and Harris as their 3 best players has increased the value of all 3, including Harris in free agency, cap dependent.

[Claud]

My only concerns with Caris are efficiency and health, the raw talent is there.

He still not in his prime but has shown a lot of growth as a player, especially in the mental department which is huge.

He BELIEVES and is PLAYING like he's a STAR. And he is becoming one in front of our eyes.

I would love to see him become a Nets legend and become a key piece on a championship squad alongside KD, Kyrie, Fro, Harris, etc.

I sound like a broken record but I think the best move is to Not make any major moves at all until we see all the pieces on the floor.

Healthy, this roster is insanely talented and deep. We could make a legit chip run with some health and luck.

[MrDollarBills]

The asking price has gone up considerably on both players. LeVert is looking like the real deal and Allen has been rock solid. Teams will want to do business if the Nets are selling high.

i dont think the price on either has gone up. nothing has really changed with either. allen has played this well or better in the past. and levert still has all the question marks he awlays had. consistency, health, ceiling, defense, lack of finishing/athleticism.

both good pieces. neither is going to be looked at as a cant miss all-star

Since March 1st LeVerts stats are insanely good with several impressive wins on his resume. He's never had an extended period of personal and team success like this. Allen has shown the demotion motivated him while he's passing like never before and hitting free throws above 80%. Multiple journalists/NBA guys are taking note on Twitter meaning so are coaches, GMs, players and fans. The fact the Nets are winning with LeVert, Allen and Harris as their 3 best players has increased the value of all 3, including Harris in free agency, cap dependent.

I think that keeping Harris is a no brainer regardless of the price. No one will dish out max dollars for him but if we want to win a title, we need to not let him walk out of here. He has championship level roleplayer written all over him.

[MrDollarBills]

My only concerns with Caris are efficiency and health, the raw talent is there.

He still not in his prime but has shown a lot of growth as a player, especially in the mental department which is huge.

He BELIEVES and is PLAYING like he's a STAR. And he is becoming one in front of our eyes.

I would love to see him become a Nets legend and become a key piece on a championship squad alongside KD, Kyrie, Fro, Harris, etc.

I sound like a broken record but I think the best move is to Not make any major moves at all until we see all the pieces on the floor.

Healthy, this roster is insanely talented and deep. We could make a legit chip run with some health and luck.

LeVert's game is less full speed north and south, but getting into the paint and taking what the defense gives him, either mid range jumpers or up and under lay ups, that kind of play will keep him off of the injured list, screw those hard driving lay ups. He's playing smarter than I've ever seen him play before.

[GTR11]

i dont think the price on either has gone up. nothing has really changed with either. allen has played this well or better in the past. and levert still has all the question marks he awlays had. consistency, health, ceiling, defense, lack of finishing/athleticism.

both good pieces. neither is going to be looked at as a cant miss all-star

Since March 1st LeVerts stats are insanely good with several impressive wins on his resume. He's never had an extended period of personal and team success like this. Allen has shown the demotion motivated him while he's passing like never before and hitting free throws above 80%. Multiple journalists/NBA guys are taking note on Twitter meaning so are coaches, GMs, players and fans. The fact the Nets are winning with LeVert, Allen and Harris as their 3 best players has increased the value of all 3, including Harris in free agency, cap dependent.

I think that keeping Harris is a no brainer regardless of the price. No one will dish out max dollars for him but if we want to win a title, we need to not let him walk out of here. He has championship level roleplayer written all over him.

We got owner who admitting the fact he'll spend and few players with bird rights. I think it's no brainier when it come to Din and Joe, Allen on the other hand is something to keep an eye on. And yeah that guy DJ wants to start.

[MrDollarBills]

Since March 1st LeVerts stats are insanely good with several impressive wins on his resume. He's never had an extended period of personal and team success like this. Allen has shown the demotion motivated him while he's passing like never before and hitting free throws above 80%. Multiple journalists/NBA guys are taking note on Twitter meaning so are coaches, GMs, players and fans. The fact the Nets are winning with LeVert, Allen and Harris as their 3 best players has increased the value of all 3, including Harris in free agency, cap dependent.

I think that keeping Harris is a no brainer regardless of the price. No one will dish out max dollars for him but if we want to win a title, we need to not let him walk out of here. He has championship level roleplayer written all over him.

We got owner who admitting the fact he'll spend and few players with bird rights. I think it's no brainier when it come to Din and Joe, Allen on the other hand is something to keep an eye on. And yeah that guy DJ wants to start.

Allen right now looks better than DeAndre Jordan. Father time is undefeated (unless you're Lebron), if I had to bet who will be the most effective big on this roster over the next two seasons it will be Jarrett Allen.