MrDollarBills wrote:vincecarter4pres wrote:MrDollarBills wrote:
The league MVP is not the 13th best player in the league. I know everyone is reacting to what happened but I'm not taking too many players over Giannis at this point outside of Lebron, Luka, and a healthy KD.
I don't think it's even recency bias for me, I've just always been suspect on his meteoric rise these last few years. It's like Derrick Rose was to me his MVP year before the injuries, or Russ. It's not that I'm calling them bad players, but I personally never agreed with their MVP status to begin with. Rose's MVP year I think I had him rated at 7th/8th best in the league and similar with Westbrick. MVP isn't best player, it's most valuable, which I myself often have trouble accepting and/or separating.
Giannis just cannot score in the playoffs in any of the pressure/harder matchups in the half court with any kind of consistency or efficiency. He has trouble dribbling the ball much and can't shoot. He's an athletic freak, but he isn't very good at actual basketball, at least when we're talking at the NBA star level, let alone superstar MVP level. I see people bring up Shaq in that vein and I don't see it. Shaq was lazy and too big to do enough cardio to really stay in shape, but he was immensely skilled as a big man, both naturally and from putting in the work. He definitely could have been better if he dedicated more. And my point is not that Giannis hasn't or won't continue to put in work. He's come a long way from what he was as a rookie. But I think he needs to be your second best player and 3rd option if you have realistic championship aspirations.
Like there are guys I rank below him, who I'd still take everyday plus leap year over him in the playoffs or for one game, pick your poison. Guys like Mitchell, Murray and Beal for example.
Next year KD and Curry are easily over him for me in straight up rankings assuming 85%+ health. Kyrie might leapfrog him again. You have a host of guys like Bam, KAT, Ja Morant, Trae and Booker, along with other long shots like J3, and even Ayton and Porzingis who have a legitimate chance to be better.
For right now though, this current season, I'd rate Tatum over him, along with Jimmy Butler and Lillard is on the fringe for me, though I'd take Giannis.
So I'd have him:
And next year, without him getting a lick worse, maybe even improving a hair, I can see him falling somewhere into that 10 to 15 range.
I'm a big fan of Giannis on the right team. I couldn't say the same for Wetbrook and to an extent not Rose either, though he was so young, if he never got hurt he may have been one of the league's truly elite. But i think he's somewhat become a product of the NBA hype machine because of his athleticism, personality and squeaky clean image. To me he is a star, a fringe superstar, but he's on an entire tier level below 1-6, who probably have 2 or 3 of their own tier levels in that group and if Curry and KD comeback like they can and a couple guys like Murray and Mitchell take another step, it could be like 1-11 followed by him.
I think he has room to improve his game to make it far into the playoffs, and he also needs better players around him, but I don't think he's a hype machine product at all, nor do I think a lot of the players you've mentioned are even coming close to playing NBA MVP level basketball like he has. His numbers and advanced metrics take a fat crap over literally everyone you've mentioned outside of the top 8 guys +KD, Curry, Dame and Kyrie. Jason Tatum is not a top ten player at this point.
You notify me when guys like Ayton, KAT, Booker, etc even come close to posting a 32 PER rating or whatever gaudy ass metrics Giannis posted this season. Til then, I think he's an elite superstar talent that needs to take a step forward with his shooting, or possibly even shift over to center to maximize his current abilities.
Quite honestly I almost certainly underrate him.
And for sure he’s young enough, a hard enough worker and on a trajectory to continue improving for a few seasons, so point definitely taken that he hasn’t even necessarily or likely plateaued.
I probably just don’t appreciate him enough because when he’s in the half court his game isn’t aesthetically pleasing and he has most certainly been a disappointment for a few seasons when he gets to the biggest stage, but you do make a good point of a suspect supporting cast. Though, only to an extent, because not to discount anything Miami is doing this playoffs, but they went out tragically poor and Giannis does have the pieces that fit around him where they shouldn’t have struggled that mightily and shortly.
Your thoughts of him playing center are also a sentiment I’d echo, especially in the right matchup or on the right roster.
The suspect handle is one thing, but he needs to improve that or his shooting.
His stats are ridiculous though and his defense and rebounding is also elite.
One has to wonder if he’s the Dwight Howard of forwards/this generation though.