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MrDollarBills wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:I am not looking forward to the Allen/Jordan conversation next year.

Sean needs to sit KD and Kyrie down and nip this in the bud. Politics should not stand in the way of progress. If Allen is playing this way or even better come training camp, Jordan will need to check his ego.

I don't think he's going to give them a choice. I know they haven't had a chance to play as a Big 3 here, but it seems more likely every day that DJ will need to go. His skill set overlaps so much with Jarrett, and they are both too limited to play together

ecuhus1981 wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:I am not looking forward to the Allen/Jordan conversation next year.

Sean needs to sit KD and Kyrie down and nip this in the bud. Politics should not stand in the way of progress. If Allen is playing this way or even better come training camp, Jordan will need to check his ego.

I don't think he's going to give them a choice. I know they haven't had a chance to play as a Big 3 here, but it seems more likely every day that DJ will need to go. His skill set overlaps so much with Jarrett, and they are both too limited to play together

I don't think DJ has to leave, but he needs to check his out of control ego and come off of the bench.

Yea this was the game we needed to win, they played bad and we couldn't capitalize. Levert didn't shoot well, I counted about 5 shots he usually makes that he didn't. We missed too many free throws in crucial times. We let Van vleet , Lowry and Powell get hot at the wrong times. Joe Harris couldn't get any shots off. Bad loss all around. But I'm proud of our guys for fighting hard. Allen is stepping up but he really needs to learn the soft touch around the rim.

vincecarter4pres wrote:

7footMONSTER wrote:Allen’s passing is a joy to watch. There are bigs in the league who have played for 10+ years that can’t make that pass to the corner.

This has kind of been buried in all the talk of how far Caris has come. I've been extremely impressed with him as well and in particular his passing, overall defense especially on switches to smaller faster players and recoveries in the paint, plus his rebounding.

Yea no doubt Allen deserves some props. He came through with some big time energy today, he was all over the floor. He completely took Gasol out of the game and dominated his opposition. I just want him to get stronger and to try to learn that soft touch around the rim. There is times where he's right under the rim and he's scared to go up, and sometimes he tries to lay it up but it rolls out. I guess when he get stronger he will feel more confident.

When TLC hit the 3 then we got the ball with a chance to tie i turned to my wife and said "0.0% chance we get a shot off"

Bad taste in the mouth ending but sitll a great game. we grinded with a team much better then us on a night when we really didnt shoot it well. Didnt have the gas to hold on. Levert was a bit fatigued late from all he was asked to do offensively... No bigman depth behind allen showed, espcially with Rodi not hitting the three.

I liked that Vaughn trusts us to switch more on D. that helped and our role wings played great. both TLC and Temple. Nurse realized that we struggle to score with Ibaka in or going small. took away our pick and roll. Gasol cant seem to defend us well especially in the pick and roll.

When is crawford back? we could really use an offensive assasin off the bench. Tyler johnsons been good but Crawford would be a big shot in the arm.

need to take game 3. its not a series until someone loses at home

DarkXaero wrote:

vincecarter4pres wrote:

3pt_chucker wrote:
He's had several brutal defensive possessions. Kinda concerning.

I mean he's gassed. It is a tad concerning though, like he mentally made the decision on some of these plays in the sense that he's like, I need to save my energy, let him score.

Star players taken plays off on defense but they also make shots on the other end. Today we have gotten nothing from him outside of playmaking (when he decides to not chuck)

To be fair.... the coach of the year and the leagues best defense had a game to adjust to a guy who was also due to come back to the norm a bit. We really dont have anyone besides maybe him and TJ who can create a shot.

MrDollarBills wrote:

vincecarter4pres wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:
People are asking a LOT right now from LeVert. and this roster in general.

Yeah, chucking today aside, he's grown immensely this last month and a half. And there's no one else to take charge and put the pressure on anyway. He's being overextended against a premier deflopse and he's still got his own limits.

Complaining aside, I am in no way mad at Caris. You can't be mad at a guy because he didn't suddenly go from a young Joe Johnson type player on the rise, to prime LeBron in one night, or mad at him because he's thrust into a bigger role than he's meant for. He's gone out and exceeded expectations and in this series, this game, with this current roster, there is no one else.

He is facing ELITE defensive pressure that is usually reserved for superstars, and even then superstars usually don't have G League level players to kick the ball out to. Next season the Raptors won't be doing any of this against us, they'll be getting cooked if they even dare.

Those G-league players have been lights out shooting though, He's had a ton of space to work with. but raps ahve excellent 1 on 1 and team defenders. and he is clearly fatigued

Prokorov wrote:

DarkXaero wrote:

vincecarter4pres wrote:I mean he's gassed. It is a tad concerning though, like he mentally made the decision on some of these plays in the sense that he's like, I need to save my energy, let him score.

Star players taken plays off on defense but they also make shots on the other end. Today we have gotten nothing from him outside of playmaking (when he decides to not chuck)

To be fair.... the coach of the year and the leagues best defense had a game to adjust to a guy who was also due to come back to the norm a bit. We really dont have anyone besides maybe him and TJ who can create a shot.

He was forcing it though, and that was the issue. We played fine when Levert kept the ball moving and our guys got open looks. Even if we miss those open looks, I'm not mad because you're still getting good shots. But when you start freezing others out the offense and force shots, I'm not gonna give the credit for that to Raps defense over blame on the player.

MrDollarBills wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:I am not looking forward to the Allen/Jordan conversation next year.

Sean needs to sit KD and Kyrie down and nip this in the bud. Politics should not stand in the way of progress. If Allen is playing this way or even better come training camp, Jordan will need to check his ego.

it was dinwiddie/chandler who led that charge. Kyrie never chimed in and wasnt even there for those games leading up to it. and durants issue was effort, not minutes/roles.

and in the end. you do what durant wants and sit the other guys down. if they dont like that role, you ship them out. top 2 players need to get their way

DarkXaero wrote:

Prokorov wrote:

DarkXaero wrote:Star players taken plays off on defense but they also make shots on the other end. Today we have gotten nothing from him outside of playmaking (when he decides to not chuck)

To be fair.... the coach of the year and the leagues best defense had a game to adjust to a guy who was also due to come back to the norm a bit. We really dont have anyone besides maybe him and TJ who can create a shot.

He was forcing it though, and that was the issue. We played fine when Levert kept the ball moving and our guys got open looks. Even if we miss those open looks, I'm not mad because you're still getting good shots. But when you start freezing others out the offense and force shots, I'm not gonna give the credit for that to Raps defense over blame on the player.

they adjusted though. when ibaka is on the floor and lowry is on harris and they switch everything you are forced into either an iso or a post up. whenever ibaka was on the floor our offense went in the tank

Kyrie | Dinwiddie | Chiozza
LeVert | Temple | Johnson
Harris | TLC | Chandler
KD | Prince | Kurucs
Allen | DJ | Claxton

*19th Pick, 55th Pick.

I believe Kurucs, Musa, Chandler, 55th are assured to be moved this off-season.

We’ll select most likely a 3&D wing or PF with defensive prowess similar to Thybulle in Philly would also be my guess going forward in how to rebound from some of these weaknesses this season. Obviously, if Beal becomes available we will pony up assets for a deal but I just don’t see it happening...this off-season but it will happen.

I think we’re looking at the Clippers also from a far to see how our future looks winning with two stars + depth vs 3 stars + ring chasers.

I think we’ll ultimately keep this same roster together again before ultimately making some tough and painful decisions on guys like Dinwiddie, Allen going down in 2021-22.

We really just need to see growth here in this playoff format to also see if guys have truly improved a bit from last season’s experience with Philadelphia and right now, Allen is showing a major jump difference between his meetings with Embiid.

Joe Harris couldn’t shoot during the playoffs last season and he’s been absolutely superb this year.

LeVert has been struggling as the main option and that’s understandable but the assists, rebounds and play making is still there but outside shooting will be ultimately what makes him a Net lifter or trade piece within the near future but KD loves him, so no chance he’s dealt for anyone less than Beal.

Paradise wrote:LeVert has been struggling as the main option and that’s understandable but the assists, rebounds and play making is still there but outside shooting will be ultimately what makes him a Net lifter or trade piece within the near future but KD loves him, so no chance he’s dealt for anyone less than Beal.

No one less than Beal is a low bar in my opinion.

I don't want to go around and around on this topic again, but it's important to note that Beal's 30ppg were as hollow as they get this season. Lots of stars have periods where they have a bad supporting cast, and they still make a positive impact on wins. Beal was so bad defensively this year, that he almost negated everything but he brought to the table offensively. Other teams are willing to pay a premium due to his high scoring numbers, and I don't want to get into a bidding war for a terrible defender when we need to shore up our defense. Also, the last thing we need is high usage scorer, we have two of those already and they're both better than Bradley. I just can't see a situation where Brad would be happy here in a severely reduced role, and I don't see how we can get bang for our buck if we manage to cobble together a package that could beat some other teams.

Prokorov wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:

vincecarter4pres wrote:Yeah, chucking today aside, he's grown immensely this last month and a half. And there's no one else to take charge and put the pressure on anyway. He's being overextended against a premier deflopse and he's still got his own limits.

Complaining aside, I am in no way mad at Caris. You can't be mad at a guy because he didn't suddenly go from a young Joe Johnson type player on the rise, to prime LeBron in one night, or mad at him because he's thrust into a bigger role than he's meant for. He's gone out and exceeded expectations and in this series, this game, with this current roster, there is no one else.

He is facing ELITE defensive pressure that is usually reserved for superstars, and even then superstars usually don't have G League level players to kick the ball out to. Next season the Raptors won't be doing any of this against us, they'll be getting cooked if they even dare.

Those G-league players have been lights out shooting though, He's had a ton of space to work with. but raps ahve excellent 1 on 1 and team defenders. and he is clearly fatigued

He's getting trapped hard any time he gets the ball up top. I personally didn't have a problem with what he was doing yesterday, the ball just wasn't going down. He has to keep putting pressure on Toronto's defense for us to have a chance at even winning one game.

Prokorov wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:I am not looking forward to the Allen/Jordan conversation next year.

Sean needs to sit KD and Kyrie down and nip this in the bud. Politics should not stand in the way of progress. If Allen is playing this way or even better come training camp, Jordan will need to check his ego.

it was dinwiddie/chandler who led that charge. Kyrie never chimed in and wasnt even there for those games leading up to it. and durants issue was effort, not minutes/roles.

and in the end. you do what durant wants and sit the other guys down. if they dont like that role, you ship them out. top 2 players need to get their way

So if Allen is playing at the level he is at right now next season, which he is clearly better than DeAndre Jordan, should Allen still sit?

Paradise wrote:Kyrie | Dinwiddie | Chiozza
LeVert | Temple | Johnson
Harris | TLC | Chandler
KD | Prince | Kurucs
Allen | DJ | Claxton

*19th Pick, 55th Pick.

I believe Kurucs, Musa, Chandler, 55th are assured to be moved this off-season.

We’ll select most likely a 3&D wing or PF with defensive prowess similar to Thybulle in Philly would also be my guess going forward in how to rebound from some of these weaknesses this season. Obviously, if Beal becomes available we will pony up assets for a deal but I just don’t see it happening...this off-season but it will happen.

I think we’re looking at the Clippers also from a far to see how our future looks winning with two stars + depth vs 3 stars + ring chasers.

I think we’ll ultimately keep this same roster together again before ultimately making some tough and painful decisions on guys like Dinwiddie, Allen going down in 2021-22.

We really just need to see growth here in this playoff format to also see if guys have truly improved a bit from last season’s experience with Philadelphia and right now, Allen is showing a major jump difference between his meetings with Embiid.

Joe Harris couldn’t shoot during the playoffs last season and he’s been absolutely superb this year.

LeVert has been struggling as the main option and that’s understandable but the assists, rebounds and play making is still there but outside shooting will be ultimately what makes him a Net lifter or trade piece within the near future but KD loves him, so no chance he’s dealt for anyone less than Beal.

LeVert is averaging 16pts 7rebs 13asts while facing defensive pressure usually reserved for top tier players. He's doing a phenomenal job despite the poor shooting, which was to be expect considering who we are up against.

This team is in amazing shape going into 20-21. I think we will be an elite club next season, and we will definitely have to make some decisions. More than likely, Dinwiddie is gone. The Nets absolutely cannot let Jarrett Allen go, that would be a disastrous decision. We'll probably have to Salary dump Prince in order to keep the tax bill from getting out of hand.

ecuhus1981 wrote:

Paradise wrote:LeVert has been struggling as the main option and that’s understandable but the assists, rebounds and play making is still there but outside shooting will be ultimately what makes him a Net lifter or trade piece within the near future but KD loves him, so no chance he’s dealt for anyone less than Beal.

No one less than Beal is a low bar in my opinion.

I don't want to go around and around on this topic again, but it's important to note that Beal's 30ppg were as hollow as they get this season. Lots of stars have periods where they have a bad supporting cast, and they still make a positive impact on wins. Beal was so bad defensively this year, that he almost negated everything but he brought to the table offensively. Other teams are willing to pay a premium due to his high scoring numbers, and I don't want to get into a bidding war for a terrible defender when we need to shore up our defense. Also, the last thing we need is high usage scorer, we have two of those already and they're both better than Bradley. I just can't see a situation where Brad would be happy here in a severely reduced role, and I don't see how we can get bang for our buck if we manage to cobble together a package that could beat some other teams.

It's funny, I almost made a Beal post late last night. The concerns with his defense are there, but this is doing him a disservice. He works so well off ball and his decision making is sharp and quick, he does not need to dominate the ball or have a high usage to be effective. He's great spotting up, coming off screens, quick one to 2 dribble moves coming off handoffs for pullups, he gets in the paint and finishes well, is great in transition and is a willing and able passer both probing and on the move without the ball. He's already been and is an actual great shooter with a ton of pressure on him, imagine with 2 dead eye HOFer 3 level scorers to play off of?

In the past, even recent, he has been an average to good defender, I'd imagine he could get back to that. He's never going to be a great defender though, or even really good, that is obvious.

For awhile he was considered the 2b shooting guard to Klay's 2a, some had them opposite with all having only Harden ahead. I don't think anything has changed except Luka arriving and taking the #1 spot and dropping everyone else down. I still take him over Booker handily and for now over Mitchell, though that's close for me. Murray is on the rise, there is a lot of talent in the league. But Beal is the real deal. If we could get Beal and somehow retain Allen, it's an instant, "No take backs!", moment for me and a move that pushes us way over the top to the #1 on paper team by a country mile.

MrDollarBills wrote:

Paradise wrote:Kyrie | Dinwiddie | Chiozza
LeVert | Temple | Johnson
Harris | TLC | Chandler
KD | Prince | Kurucs
Allen | DJ | Claxton

*19th Pick, 55th Pick.

I believe Kurucs, Musa, Chandler, 55th are assured to be moved this off-season.

We’ll select most likely a 3&D wing or PF with defensive prowess similar to Thybulle in Philly would also be my guess going forward in how to rebound from some of these weaknesses this season. Obviously, if Beal becomes available we will pony up assets for a deal but I just don’t see it happening...this off-season but it will happen.

I think we’re looking at the Clippers also from a far to see how our future looks winning with two stars + depth vs 3 stars + ring chasers.

I think we’ll ultimately keep this same roster together again before ultimately making some tough and painful decisions on guys like Dinwiddie, Allen going down in 2021-22.

We really just need to see growth here in this playoff format to also see if guys have truly improved a bit from last season’s experience with Philadelphia and right now, Allen is showing a major jump difference between his meetings with Embiid.

Joe Harris couldn’t shoot during the playoffs last season and he’s been absolutely superb this year.

LeVert has been struggling as the main option and that’s understandable but the assists, rebounds and play making is still there but outside shooting will be ultimately what makes him a Net lifter or trade piece within the near future but KD loves him, so no chance he’s dealt for anyone less than Beal.

LeVert is averaging 16pts 7rebs 13asts while facing defensive pressure usually reserved for top tier players. He's doing a phenomenal job despite the poor shooting, which was to be expect considering who we are up against.

This team is in amazing shape going into 20-21. I think we will be an elite club next season, and we will definitely have to make some decisions. More than likely, Dinwiddie is gone. The Nets absolutely cannot let Jarrett Allen go, that would be a disastrous decision. We'll probably have to Salary dump Prince in order to keep the tax bill from getting out of hand.

There are only maybe 3 somewhat realistic trade targets I'd be OK giving up Allen in the package to get.

Mitchell
Beal
Embiid

Anyone else is either an unrealistic target because their team is not willing to trade them, or Allen would be off the table.

I sincerely hope Marks and co. feel the same.

Watching Myles Turner, there is no way I'd even do a one for one if Prince and Temple were the fillers. He's a good player, but nah.

Still think about John Collins, but I think we'll find a low cost(either asset and/or salary swap) option such as Melo, Millsap, Barnes or Jerami Grant, at the 4, so why send out our 1st to 2nd best asset and one of our top notch current young rising players to get him? Unless you(or Marks lol) think Collins is going to be a top 20 player in the league for the better part of the next decade.

KAT won't be available for years, if at all. I've always said you shy away from dealing him for McCollum and now it seems concrete. Booker isn't going anywhere for a few. Bottom line is, you either get someone unbelievably good coming back for him, or you stay put, let's hope our FO and stars feel the same.

MrDollarBills wrote:

Prokorov wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:
Sean needs to sit KD and Kyrie down and nip this in the bud. Politics should not stand in the way of progress. If Allen is playing this way or even better come training camp, Jordan will need to check his ego.

it was dinwiddie/chandler who led that charge. Kyrie never chimed in and wasnt even there for those games leading up to it. and durants issue was effort, not minutes/roles.

and in the end. you do what durant wants and sit the other guys down. if they dont like that role, you ship them out. top 2 players need to get their way

So if Allen is playing at the level he is at right now next season, which he is clearly better than DeAndre Jordan, should Allen still sit?

It's that slippery slope, right?

Right now I dare anyone to name 15 better centers in the league and to me he's in the top 10. I don't see that changing, if anything he keeps getting better, or gains confidence and puts on some muscle and gets better just through experience. If he starts consistently shooting that midrange J in the high 40's, it's really over. You don't want him taking a ton of those, but it obviously keeps the defense honest and opens up everything for him and everyone else on the floor with him.

Jordan is still solid, he's surely an above average player for 20-25mpg, especially vs. bench players, but there's no doubt Allen should be starting and averaging at least 30mpg.

MrDollarBills wrote:

Paradise wrote:Kyrie | Dinwiddie | Chiozza
LeVert | Temple | Johnson
Harris | TLC | Chandler
KD | Prince | Kurucs
Allen | DJ | Claxton

*19th Pick, 55th Pick.

I believe Kurucs, Musa, Chandler, 55th are assured to be moved this off-season.

We’ll select most likely a 3&D wing or PF with defensive prowess similar to Thybulle in Philly would also be my guess going forward in how to rebound from some of these weaknesses this season. Obviously, if Beal becomes available we will pony up assets for a deal but I just don’t see it happening...this off-season but it will happen.

I think we’re looking at the Clippers also from a far to see how our future looks winning with two stars + depth vs 3 stars + ring chasers.

I think we’ll ultimately keep this same roster together again before ultimately making some tough and painful decisions on guys like Dinwiddie, Allen going down in 2021-22.

We really just need to see growth here in this playoff format to also see if guys have truly improved a bit from last season’s experience with Philadelphia and right now, Allen is showing a major jump difference between his meetings with Embiid.

Joe Harris couldn’t shoot during the playoffs last season and he’s been absolutely superb this year.

LeVert has been struggling as the main option and that’s understandable but the assists, rebounds and play making is still there but outside shooting will be ultimately what makes him a Net lifter or trade piece within the near future but KD loves him, so no chance he’s dealt for anyone less than Beal.

LeVert is averaging 16pts 7rebs 13asts while facing defensive pressure usually reserved for top tier players. He's doing a phenomenal job despite the poor shooting, which was to be expect considering who we are up against.

This team is in amazing shape going into 20-21. I think we will be an elite club next season, and we will definitely have to make some decisions. More than likely, Dinwiddie is gone. The Nets absolutely cannot let Jarrett Allen go, that would be a disastrous decision. We'll probably have to Salary dump Prince in order to keep the tax bill from getting out of hand.

Agreed.

I think Prince is due to be traded soon but it will come due to the emergence of Nic at the four. I think he will have a Siakam-like jump very soon and it will force us into moving guys.

vincecarter4pres wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:

Prokorov wrote:
it was dinwiddie/chandler who led that charge. Kyrie never chimed in and wasnt even there for those games leading up to it. and durants issue was effort, not minutes/roles.

and in the end. you do what durant wants and sit the other guys down. if they dont like that role, you ship them out. top 2 players need to get their way

So if Allen is playing at the level he is at right now next season, which he is clearly better than DeAndre Jordan, should Allen still sit?

It's that slippery slope, right?

Right now I dare anyone to name 15 better centers in the league and to me he's in the top 10. I don't see that changing, if anything he keeps getting better, or gains confidence and puts on some muscle and gets better just through experience. If he starts consistently shooting that midrange J in the high 40's, it's really over. You don't want him taking a ton of those, but it obviously keeps the defense honest and opens up everything for him and everyone else on the floor with him.

Jordan is still solid, he's surely an above average player for 20-25mpg, especially vs. bench players, but there's no doubt Allen should be starting and averaging at least 30mpg.

DJ is still a good player, but his effort is not consistent. Right now, Allen looks hyper focused, I really think getting benched after Kenny got fired lit a fire under his ass and it's not going to be put out. He's also racking up double doubles like it's a cakewalk and his passing from the center position is starting to raise eyebrows. He's absolute threat as a roll man that when you imagine him on the court with KD and Kyrie, he will feast off of the attention that they draw.

16pts 12rebs 4apg 1.4blks per game in the restart. And he's been doing this against some good names too. Imagine a full season of this with elite players in the starting line up next to him.