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Harden-watch 2020

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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#201 » by Prokorov » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:39 pm

Sharcm1 wrote:I hope and think that this harden deal will not happen this year. Let’s see what this team can do before blowing it up. The rockets aren’t feeling the pressure either to trade harden as he has two years left on his contract. Next summer we can revisit the trade if we don’t win a championship or there are glaring things we need to change. Next summer harden will also have more leverage being a free agent the next year.


i dont think this team as is is a title team unless durant is back 100%. we will be in the mix before but we lack defense, our 3rd best player is not an ideal fit, and we have enormous injury risk.

maintenance will guarantee we dont have home court in the ECF or finals.

Also, after the season it becomes harder to trade dinwiddie and Allen. they would be pending FAs. we could try a sign and trade but there are restrictions and requires the players ot want to go to houston.

make the deal now. there is 0.0% chance we arent better with harden vs our table scraps going out
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#202 » by Hello Brooklyn » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:40 pm

Rockets are asking for way too much right now and I'm no longer holding out hope.

Time to move on and focus on adding some defensive pieces through the draft and Free Agency.

I'm not giving up 5 first rounders or Kyrie for Harden. Their season will be a dumpster fire and they will come back.

Or trade him to Philly. A Harden-Embiid combo wouldn't really scare me at all.

Were winning the East this year with or without Harden.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#203 » by Stone » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:11 pm

Prokorov wrote:i dont think this team as is is a title team unless durant is back 100%. we will be in the mix before but we lack defense, our 3rd best player is not an ideal fit, and we have enormous injury risk.

maintenance will guarantee we dont have home court in the ECF or finals.

Also, after the season it becomes harder to trade dinwiddie and Allen. they would be pending FAs. we could try a sign and trade but there are restrictions and requires the players ot want to go to houston.

make the deal now. there is 0.0% chance we arent better with harden vs our table scraps going out


We still don't even know what the complete roster is going to look like. You can bet there will be new players.

Another thing worth mentioning is Spencer and Big Jay will be playing for a contract. These guys are going to give us 110%.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#204 » by DarkXaero » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:35 pm

Prokorov wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
LOUiS-D wrote:I agree. This is a thread the needle situation for Brooklyn, not a time to get cute. It's all about how many other teams have the assets, ambition and stomach for a trade of this magnitude and how long Houston are willing to wait to see if that market widens.
Whether you guys disagree or not, this is how negotiations generally play out in the NBA, unless you're Billy King. You're not going to play all your cards right away, you want to see what's the best deal you can try to make.


there is no negotiation though. Our best offer is already a weak one. so offering less then that isnt negotiation and may irk the GM even or make him think you arent serious
Well good thing you're not a GM or our GM. According to you, our assets have little to no value, so we shouldn't even be in consideration for a Harden trade by that criteria. I'll leave it to Sean Marks to figure this out, I trust him, and for good reason.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#205 » by Hello Brooklyn » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:15 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Sharcm1 wrote:I hope and think that this harden deal will not happen this year. Let’s see what this team can do before blowing it up. The rockets aren’t feeling the pressure either to trade harden as he has two years left on his contract. Next summer we can revisit the trade if we don’t win a championship or there are glaring things we need to change. Next summer harden will also have more leverage being a free agent the next year.


i dont think this team as is is a title team unless durant is back 100%. we will be in the mix before but we lack defense, our 3rd best player is not an ideal fit, and we have enormous injury risk.

maintenance will guarantee we dont have home court in the ECF or finals.

Also, after the season it becomes harder to trade dinwiddie and Allen. they would be pending FAs. we could try a sign and trade but there are restrictions and requires the players ot want to go to houston.

make the deal now. there is 0.0% chance we arent better with harden vs our table scraps going out


This roster is not close to finished. We haven't even started the draft of free agency.

I think our roster as currently constructed plus a few good pieces would put us in position to win a title.

There are no great teams in the East.

The Lakers and the Warriors would be the biggest challenge. But we have more depth than either of those teams. I would view it as no worse than a 50/50 tossup.

Durant will be back to himself anyway. Everyone who has seen him practice or workout has been raving about how good hes been. I don't see a drop off coming.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#206 » by LOUiS-D » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:25 pm

DarkXaero wrote:Well good thing you're not a GM or our GM. According to you, our assets have little to no value, so we shouldn't even be in consideration for a Harden trade by that criteria. I'll leave it to Sean Marks to figure this out, I trust him, and for good reason.

I love Din, Lev and JA. They are getting dogged right now around the internet with people equating the Nets' offer to the poo poo platter. I am not one of those people. I will be happy if we keep them loooong term. I would prefer it. The only reason I'm okay with trading them is that there is admittedly too much rendundancy in the lineup. Getting Harden doesn't necessarily address the redundancy, but it does consolodate it.

It's not that our assets don't have value, it's that there is a short list of players who indesputably have more value than Harden. Let me do that list right now: Giannis... ummm.. Luka?
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#207 » by 3pt_chucker » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:57 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
3pt_chucker wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:Doesn't the injury risk of Kyrie and KD make the opposite argument actually? It emphasizes the importance of a 3rd star as insurance, especially someone like Harden who is an MVP candidate type player on his own.


Except that we will be depleting your depth, we won't be that great if KD/Kyrie goes down. Rather keep depth and flexibility.
Depth is overrated and easy to figure out if we have Harden. Kyrie/Harden/Harris/KD/DJ + Bruce Brown is a very nice start anyway. We'd still have the tax payer MLE, the ability to re-sign Tyler Johnson, and make shrewd veteran signings, in addition to whatever bench pieces are left post-Harden trade.


I don't agree (quality)depth is overrated at all. I feel like it matters especially with Harden and KD both in their 30s. We've seen multiple championship teams in the recent years benefit massively due to depth (Mavs, Spurs, pre-KD Warriors). Even playoff teams like Denver, Miami show that depth can give you that extra 1% that's needed to win in the margins.

To clarify, I'm not saying depth > Harden... obviously that's not true. But I think quality depth behind 2 top 10-15 players + full future flexibility > Harden.

I'm on 100% on board trying to get Harden but what we have to give up(assuming rumors are true) would be one of, if not the largest haul in NBA history, which I feel like is unnecessary given the quality of the roster already.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#208 » by 3pt_chucker » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:58 pm

Prokorov wrote:
3pt_chucker wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:Doesn't the injury risk of Kyrie and KD make the opposite argument actually? It emphasizes the importance of a 3rd star as insurance, especially someone like Harden who is an MVP candidate type player on his own.


Except that we will be depleting your depth, we won't be that great if KD/Kyrie goes down. Rather keep depth and flexibility.


Harden + 4 D-leaguers >>>> Dinwiddie/levert/prince/allen


On the surface level, that's obvious. Harden is a top5 player. That's not what I'm saying though.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#209 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:09 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:Rockets are asking for way too much right now and I'm no longer holding out hope.

Time to move on and focus on adding some defensive pieces through the draft and Free Agency.

I'm not giving up 5 first rounders or Kyrie for Harden. Their season will be a dumpster fire and they will come back.

Or trade him to Philly. A Harden-Embiid combo wouldn't really scare me at all.

Were winning the East this year with or without Harden.


We missed out on two much needed pieces in Holiday and Covington while dicking around with the Rockets. We are in some trouble right now if Marks can't address the glaring issues with this roster. The Bucks got better. We did not.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#210 » by Trader_Joe » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:12 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:Rockets are asking for way too much right now and I'm no longer holding out hope.

Time to move on and focus on adding some defensive pieces through the draft and Free Agency.

I'm not giving up 5 first rounders or Kyrie for Harden. Their season will be a dumpster fire and they will come back.

Or trade him to Philly. A Harden-Embiid combo wouldn't really scare me at all.

Were winning the East this year with or without Harden.


We missed out on two much needed pieces in Holiday and Covington while dicking around with the Rockets. We are in some trouble right now if Marks can't address the glaring issues with this roster. The Bucks got better. We did not.

Ummm we got a lot better.
KD and Kyrie are healthy.
We don't know how good we are, but we are better with those 2.

And there is no way in hell, we would have paid that much for Holiday or should have paid that much.
Insane what the Bucks spent.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#211 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:12 pm

LOUiS-D wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:Well good thing you're not a GM or our GM. According to you, our assets have little to no value, so we shouldn't even be in consideration for a Harden trade by that criteria. I'll leave it to Sean Marks to figure this out, I trust him, and for good reason.

I love Din, Lev and JA. They are getting dogged right now around the internet with people equating the Nets' offer to the poo poo platter. I am not one of those people. I will be happy if we keep them loooong term. I would prefer it. The only reason I'm okay with trading them is that there is admittedly too much rendundancy in the lineup. Getting Harden doesn't necessarily address the redundancy, but it does consolodate it.

It's not that our assets don't have value, it's that there is a short list of players who indesputably have more value than Harden. Let me do that list right now: Giannis... ummm.. Luka?


The problem is that Dinwiddie and Allen are set for pay days that we can't afford under the cap rules due to the tax.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#212 » by Trader_Joe » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:15 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
LOUiS-D wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:Well good thing you're not a GM or our GM. According to you, our assets have little to no value, so we shouldn't even be in consideration for a Harden trade by that criteria. I'll leave it to Sean Marks to figure this out, I trust him, and for good reason.

I love Din, Lev and JA. They are getting dogged right now around the internet with people equating the Nets' offer to the poo poo platter. I am not one of those people. I will be happy if we keep them loooong term. I would prefer it. The only reason I'm okay with trading them is that there is admittedly too much rendundancy in the lineup. Getting Harden doesn't necessarily address the redundancy, but it does consolodate it.

It's not that our assets don't have value, it's that there is a short list of players who indesputably have more value than Harden. Let me do that list right now: Giannis... ummm.. Luka?


The problem is that Dinwiddie and Allen are set for pay days that we can't afford under the cap rules due to the tax.

Yep.. Bobby Marks broke it down earlier our tax payments and if we trade for Harden and resign Harris for $18m he said 82m-148m this year alone. "1st $300m team in NBA history"
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#213 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:21 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:Rockets are asking for way too much right now and I'm no longer holding out hope.

Time to move on and focus on adding some defensive pieces through the draft and Free Agency.

I'm not giving up 5 first rounders or Kyrie for Harden. Their season will be a dumpster fire and they will come back.

Or trade him to Philly. A Harden-Embiid combo wouldn't really scare me at all.

Were winning the East this year with or without Harden.


We missed out on two much needed pieces in Holiday and Covington while dicking around with the Rockets. We are in some trouble right now if Marks can't address the glaring issues with this roster. The Bucks got better. We did not.

Ummm we got a lot better.
KD and Kyrie are healthy.
We don't know how good we are, but we are better with those 2.

And there is no way in hell, we would have paid that much for Holiday or should have paid that much.
Insane what the Bucks spent.


I agree, but are we better defensively? Do we have enough depth to handle missed games from Irving and Durant?

I honestly would have rather traded for Covington instead of what is happening right now: nothing. Seems like the Nets got caught chasing after the shiny object instead of handling business. We should have been trying to get Holiday and Covington.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#214 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:23 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
LOUiS-D wrote:I love Din, Lev and JA. They are getting dogged right now around the internet with people equating the Nets' offer to the poo poo platter. I am not one of those people. I will be happy if we keep them loooong term. I would prefer it. The only reason I'm okay with trading them is that there is admittedly too much rendundancy in the lineup. Getting Harden doesn't necessarily address the redundancy, but it does consolodate it.

It's not that our assets don't have value, it's that there is a short list of players who indesputably have more value than Harden. Let me do that list right now: Giannis... ummm.. Luka?


The problem is that Dinwiddie and Allen are set for pay days that we can't afford under the cap rules due to the tax.

Yep.. Bobby Marks broke it down earlier our tax payments and if we trade for Harden and resign Harris for $18m he said 82m-148m this year alone. "1st $300m team in NBA history"


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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#215 » by Trader_Joe » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:27 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
We missed out on two much needed pieces in Holiday and Covington while dicking around with the Rockets. We are in some trouble right now if Marks can't address the glaring issues with this roster. The Bucks got better. We did not.

Ummm we got a lot better.
KD and Kyrie are healthy.
We don't know how good we are, but we are better with those 2.

And there is no way in hell, we would have paid that much for Holiday or should have paid that much.
Insane what the Bucks spent.


I agree, but are we better defensively? Do we have enough depth to handle missed games from Irving and Durant?

I honestly would have rather traded for Covington instead of what is happening right now: nothing. Seems like the Nets got caught chasing after the shiny object instead of handling business. We should have been trying to get Holiday and Covington.

We have plenty of PG depth:
Dinwiddie, LeVert, B.Brown, some combo of Chiozza/Tyler Johnson/Jamal Crawford and Jeremiah Martin on his 2 way, plus we keep getting tied to PGs for the draft.

KD, no, and agree RoCo would have been a nice fit.. or Aaron Gordon if available. or PJ Tucker lol.

Defensively, Harden wouldn't have exactly helped, but I like the B.Brown signing, TLC will be around, Allen and Jordan down low, and T.Prince, LeVert and Dinwiddie all have the tools to be much better defenders than what they have shown. KD was not slouch there either. Really the true negatives with little hope of being positive individual defenders are Harris and Irving.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#216 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:31 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:Ummm we got a lot better.
KD and Kyrie are healthy.
We don't know how good we are, but we are better with those 2.

And there is no way in hell, we would have paid that much for Holiday or should have paid that much.
Insane what the Bucks spent.


I agree, but are we better defensively? Do we have enough depth to handle missed games from Irving and Durant?

I honestly would have rather traded for Covington instead of what is happening right now: nothing. Seems like the Nets got caught chasing after the shiny object instead of handling business. We should have been trying to get Holiday and Covington.

We have plenty of PG depth:
Dinwiddie, LeVert, B.Brown, some combo of Chiozza/Tyler Johnson/Jamal Crawford and Jeremiah Martin on his 2 way, plus we keep getting tied to PGs for the draft.

KD, no, and agree RoCo would have been a nice fit.. or Aaron Gordon if available. or PJ Tucker lol.

Defensively, Harden wouldn't have exactly helped, but I like the B.Brown signing, TLC will be around, Allen and Jordan down low, and T.Prince, LeVert and Dinwiddie all have the tools to be much better defenders than what they have shown. KD was not slouch there either. Really the true negatives with little hope of being positive individual defenders are Harris and Irving.


I would have taken the offensive trade off for Harden. But as it stands now, I think we let a big piece slip with that Covington trade to Portland.

Maybe we can get PJ Tucker from Houston. I don't know, it's just frustrating to see the Bucks making moves while we stay in limbo over Harden.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#217 » by Trader_Joe » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:34 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
I agree, but are we better defensively? Do we have enough depth to handle missed games from Irving and Durant?

I honestly would have rather traded for Covington instead of what is happening right now: nothing. Seems like the Nets got caught chasing after the shiny object instead of handling business. We should have been trying to get Holiday and Covington.

We have plenty of PG depth:
Dinwiddie, LeVert, B.Brown, some combo of Chiozza/Tyler Johnson/Jamal Crawford and Jeremiah Martin on his 2 way, plus we keep getting tied to PGs for the draft.

KD, no, and agree RoCo would have been a nice fit.. or Aaron Gordon if available. or PJ Tucker lol.

Defensively, Harden wouldn't have exactly helped, but I like the B.Brown signing, TLC will be around, Allen and Jordan down low, and T.Prince, LeVert and Dinwiddie all have the tools to be much better defenders than what they have shown. KD was not slouch there either. Really the true negatives with little hope of being positive individual defenders are Harris and Irving.


I would have taken the offensive trade off for Harden. But as it stands now, I think we let a big piece slip with that Covington trade to Portland.

Maybe we can get PJ Tucker from Houston. I don't know, it's just frustrating to see the Bucks making moves while we stay in limbo over Harden.

Patience is a virtue.
I would have vomited if we tried to outbid the Bucks on Holiday.

Have faith in Marks.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#218 » by DarkXaero » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:41 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
LOUiS-D wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:Well good thing you're not a GM or our GM. According to you, our assets have little to no value, so we shouldn't even be in consideration for a Harden trade by that criteria. I'll leave it to Sean Marks to figure this out, I trust him, and for good reason.

I love Din, Lev and JA. They are getting dogged right now around the internet with people equating the Nets' offer to the poo poo platter. I am not one of those people. I will be happy if we keep them loooong term. I would prefer it. The only reason I'm okay with trading them is that there is admittedly too much rendundancy in the lineup. Getting Harden doesn't necessarily address the redundancy, but it does consolodate it.

It's not that our assets don't have value, it's that there is a short list of players who indesputably have more value than Harden. Let me do that list right now: Giannis... ummm.. Luka?


The problem is that Dinwiddie and Allen are set for pay days that we can't afford under the cap rules due to the tax.
We can afford it, it's a matter of paying. Tsai is the 3rd richest owner in the league.
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Re: Harden-watch 2020 

Post#219 » by Hello Brooklyn » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:54 pm

I kind of agree that this dicking around with Harden might cost us.

Kelly Oubre is available for a First Round pick. I would love to have him on this team for our pick this year.
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Harden-watch 2020 

Post#220 » by Paradise » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:02 am

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