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Prokorov wrote:

Sharcm1 wrote:

Prokorov wrote:
He is a pest defensively. and he showed it the first two games. he was very good for GSW and was disruptive vs boston. he knocks alot of balls away. not just for steals but to force a guy to chase it and reset. he could very well end up being our best bench players. he is a lights out shooter. he is certainly our best small defender outside of brown. and he plays with a chip on hsi shoulder.

guys will come around on him just like they came around on joe harris

Maybe we are watching different games. He is also 2 for 15 from three. It’s going to take a lot for him to change my mind. And not just him actually hitting his threes

if your mind is made after 3 games then it is already an unreasonable view.

He is a proven elite shooter over several seasons on multiple teams on extremely high volume. you can take the 2-15 super small sample heavily skewed by 1 truly awful night... or you could take the larger 700+ attemps as a pro where he shot 40% from three while playing for playoff teams. He also shot 45% from deep in college... all of this while doing a bulk of it off screens, on the move, and with teams knowing he is a threat.

The over-hate on shamet is kind of lazy. and the typical scape-goatishness this board is accustom to.

No my mind was made up prior to us getting him. Clearly the clippers thought the same as they brought in another shooter and got rid of him. Never wanted him and hated the trade and so far in the three games and two preseason games he hasn’t changed my mind. We will see

Judging a guy off 3 games doesn't make sense. He's a 40% career shooter, and that's with a huge shooting slump last year in the bubble. He was also due for the sophomore slump. The Clippers made a trade that they thought could make them better, they also picked up some assets in the move, so it made sense for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they thought he sucked and had no role for them, just that they thought Kennard was a better player, which is fair. We picked up Shamet and Brown for guys that were never going to get much playing time for us (Musa, Bey, and 2nd rounders)...and Musa ended up getting waived immediately anyway. So it made a lot of sense for us too.

We moved players that were never going to see the court outside of garbage time for actual rotation-level players. Does anyone really think we'd be better off with Bey or Musa instead of Shamet right now?

Normally, I would dismiss Shamet's horrible start as a non-concerning shooting slump, but this "slump" goes back a long way. Shamet has been trash since March. I'm sure he'll start shooting better at some point (can't get any worse anyways), but you still want a 3pt specialist to be more consistent.

therealbig3 wrote:Judging a guy off 3 games doesn't make sense. He's a 40% career shooter, and that's with a huge shooting slump last year in the bubble. He was also due for the sophomore slump. The Clippers made a trade that they thought could make them better, they also picked up some assets in the move, so it made sense for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they thought he sucked and had no role for them, just that they thought Kennard was a better player, which is fair. We picked up Shamet and Brown for guys that were never going to get much playing time for us (Musa, Bey, and 2nd rounders)...and Musa ended up getting waived immediately anyway. So it made a lot of sense for us too.

We moved players that were never going to see the court outside of garbage time for actual rotation-level players. Does anyone really think we'd be better off with Bey or Musa instead of Shamet right now?

I’d feel better off with Bey getting minutes and learning with our current structure with Shamet playing as he is... Bey brings more when not shooting where as Shamet doesn’t seem to.

But it is too small of a sample.. we’ll see.

Detroit is terrible for player evaluation, can’t judge their players lol

CalamityX12 wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:Judging a guy off 3 games doesn't make sense. He's a 40% career shooter, and that's with a huge shooting slump last year in the bubble. He was also due for the sophomore slump. The Clippers made a trade that they thought could make them better, they also picked up some assets in the move, so it made sense for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they thought he sucked and had no role for them, just that they thought Kennard was a better player, which is fair. We picked up Shamet and Brown for guys that were never going to get much playing time for us (Musa, Bey, and 2nd rounders)...and Musa ended up getting waived immediately anyway. So it made a lot of sense for us too.

We moved players that were never going to see the court outside of garbage time for actual rotation-level players. Does anyone really think we'd be better off with Bey or Musa instead of Shamet right now?

I’d feel better off with Bey getting minutes and learning with our current structure with Shamet playing as he is... Bey brings more when not shooting where as Shamet doesn’t seem to.

But it is too small of a sample.. we’ll see.

Detroit is terrible for player evaluation, can’t judge their players lol

But Bey is a mid-1st round pick, those are almost a crap shoot in terms of actually panning out into a player that's better than Shamet. We're a win now team, a knockdown shooter with two superstar level players on the roster is more important than a project trying to learn the ropes...who's already an unproven outside shooter. Shooting is like the #1 thing you want out of your role players when you already have stars in place.

I don't get it, the guy shot 42% from 3 as a rookie. He shot 38% from 3 last year as a 2nd year player even with the aforementioned horrible shooting stretch since March. But COVID happened and it's hard to really judge the guy too harshly for struggling, lots of players weren't the same after play resumed.

Granted, since it is only his 3rd year, we don't actually have a large sample size of him being an elite shooter over the course of a long career, but if he shot that well through his first 2 years, and that's his primary contribution to a team, I think it would be really weird if he just suddenly regressed as a shooter and now can't even hit 35% of his 3s.

therealbig3 wrote:

CalamityX12 wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:Judging a guy off 3 games doesn't make sense. He's a 40% career shooter, and that's with a huge shooting slump last year in the bubble. He was also due for the sophomore slump. The Clippers made a trade that they thought could make them better, they also picked up some assets in the move, so it made sense for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they thought he sucked and had no role for them, just that they thought Kennard was a better player, which is fair. We picked up Shamet and Brown for guys that were never going to get much playing time for us (Musa, Bey, and 2nd rounders)...and Musa ended up getting waived immediately anyway. So it made a lot of sense for us too.

We moved players that were never going to see the court outside of garbage time for actual rotation-level players. Does anyone really think we'd be better off with Bey or Musa instead of Shamet right now?

I’d feel better off with Bey getting minutes and learning with our current structure with Shamet playing as he is... Bey brings more when not shooting where as Shamet doesn’t seem to.

But it is too small of a sample.. we’ll see.

Detroit is terrible for player evaluation, can’t judge their players lol

But Bey is a mid-1st round pick, those are almost a crap shoot in terms of actually panning out into a player that's better than Shamet. We're a win now team, a knockdown shooter with two superstar level players on the roster is more important than a project trying to learn the ropes...who's already an unproven outside shooter. Shooting is like the #1 thing you want out of your role players when you already have stars in place.

I don't get it, the guy shot 42% from 3 as a rookie. He shot 38% from 3 last year as a 2nd year player even with the aforementioned horrible shooting stretch since March. But COVID happened and it's hard to really judge the guy too harshly for struggling, lots of players weren't the same after play resumed.

Granted, since it is only his 3rd year, we don't actually have a large sample size of him being an elite shooter over the course of a long career, but if he shot that well through his first 2 years, and that's his primary contribution to a team, I think it would be really weird if he just suddenly regressed as a shooter and now can't even hit 35% of his 3s.

And he’ll be given his time, right amount of games to seriously go hard at him or defend him.... but so far its a stinker. For our team goal sake, hope its temporary but he’s fitting the description many have accurately tagged him rather than the elite shooter profile he’s not measuring up to through 3.5 games(he made 1 vs Grizz so far!)

Also he’s no better than a amateur athelete playing defense in the pros lol... he’s guy is always passing him by

After four games, Shamet is 3 for 18 from 3.

CalamityX12 wrote:After four games, Shamet is 3 for 18 from 3.

the 0-8 night skews it a bit. 3-10 otherwise which isnt great but its a really skewed small sample. he has been one of our best defenders and max effort pest. he will be a major factor for us this year and it was an outstanding trade to land him

therealbig3 wrote:Judging a guy off 3 games doesn't make sense. He's a 40% career shooter, and that's with a huge shooting slump last year in the bubble. He was also due for the sophomore slump. The Clippers made a trade that they thought could make them better, they also picked up some assets in the move, so it made sense for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they thought he sucked and had no role for them, just that they thought Kennard was a better player, which is fair. We picked up Shamet and Brown for guys that were never going to get much playing time for us (Musa, Bey, and 2nd rounders)...and Musa ended up getting waived immediately anyway. So it made a lot of sense for us too.

We moved players that were never going to see the court outside of garbage time for actual rotation-level players. Does anyone really think we'd be better off with Bey or Musa instead of Shamet right now?

Again it’s not based off three games. That’s just three games with us. I didn’t like his game with the clippers either. And the musa brown trade had nothing to do with shamet. We gave up a mid first round pick for this guy. So far he’s no better than musa lol. Anyone taken after that pick for the future will haunt us just like past picks did. If bey or others lower turn out to be stars and shamet still can’t shoot we made a mistake.

Judging a guy after 4 games is fairly short sighted. If Sean Marks operated like that, Spencer Dinwiddie and Joe Harris would have been out of the league by now.

Shamet will be fine. All elite shooters go through rough stretches. Curry included. Klay included.

I have no doubt Shamet will start hitting his 3s.

Prokorov wrote:

CalamityX12 wrote:After four games, Shamet is 3 for 18 from 3.

the 0-8 night skews it a bit. 3-10 otherwise which isnt great but its a really skewed small sample. he has been one of our best defenders and max effort pest. he will be a major factor for us this year and it was an outstanding trade to land him

Lol, you can't dismiss **** nights like that. It's the same type of argument people make to prop up Levert.

DarkXaero wrote:

Prokorov wrote:

CalamityX12 wrote:After four games, Shamet is 3 for 18 from 3.

the 0-8 night skews it a bit. 3-10 otherwise which isnt great but its a really skewed small sample. he has been one of our best defenders and max effort pest. he will be a major factor for us this year and it was an outstanding trade to land him

Lol, you can't dismiss **** nights like that. It's the same type of argument people make to prop up Levert.

Levert can do other things if he isn’t shooting well. Like last night. Shamet doesn’t seem to have anything else.

Shooters going 3-18 from 3 over a 4 game stretch happens all the time.

Last year with the Clippers, Shamet ended the year horribly, especially after the restart. But he still shot 38% overall from 3. And he did not have the reputation of "sucking" until after the restart, Clippers fans loved him his rookie year and in the first half of last year. I honestly think he got affected by the restart worse than most, and that he's just in a shooting slump to start the year. Those can be mutually exclusive and not necessarily indicative of a serious underlying problem. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for the first 20 games or so, I need to see a larger sample size before I judge him.

But defensively, I strongly disagree that he's good. I think he's below average honestly. Like, not intentionally, he does give effort...but he gets beat all the time.

Which is fine, a bench shooter can't be expected to be a good defender too, he's in there for an offensive spark, which he hopefully turns around soon.

Sharcm1 wrote:

DarkXaero wrote:

Prokorov wrote:
the 0-8 night skews it a bit. 3-10 otherwise which isnt great but its a really skewed small sample. he has been one of our best defenders and max effort pest. he will be a major factor for us this year and it was an outstanding trade to land him

Lol, you can't dismiss **** nights like that. It's the same type of argument people make to prop up Levert.

Levert can do other things if he isn’t shooting well. Like last night. Shamet doesn’t seem to have anything else.

Nobody is comparing the two. Levert is supposed to be better than Shamet. Levert is our 6th man and 3rd or 4th best overall player with Dinwiddie out, while Shamet's job is to just come in and give an offensive spark with his shooting, which he's admittedly failed at so far.

The point though is that some people tend to excuse away or ignore bad games from Levert, so that all we're looking at is his absolute best moments, and it just doesn't work that way. Can't do the same thing with Shamet by just hand-waving away an 0-8 shooting night just because it was especially ugly.

Sharcm1 wrote:

Prokorov wrote:

Sharcm1 wrote:
Maybe we are watching different games. He is also 2 for 15 from three. It’s going to take a lot for him to change my mind. And not just him actually hitting his threes

if your mind is made after 3 games then it is already an unreasonable view.

He is a proven elite shooter over several seasons on multiple teams on extremely high volume. you can take the 2-15 super small sample heavily skewed by 1 truly awful night... or you could take the larger 700+ attemps as a pro where he shot 40% from three while playing for playoff teams. He also shot 45% from deep in college... all of this while doing a bulk of it off screens, on the move, and with teams knowing he is a threat.

The over-hate on shamet is kind of lazy. and the typical scape-goatishness this board is accustom to.

No my mind was made up prior to us getting him. Clearly the clippers thought the same as they brought in another shooter and got rid of him. Never wanted him and hated the trade and so far in the three games and two preseason games he hasn’t changed my mind. We will see

Judging a guy before he even gets here or after 4 games is a You problem, not a Shamet problem. He has 150 games under his belt. judging him on 4 games here or the bubble after he was infected with Covid is not just not useful.

DarkXaero wrote:Normally, I would dismiss Shamet's horrible start as a non-concerning shooting slump, but this "slump" goes back a long way. Shamet has been trash since March. I'm sure he'll start shooting better at some point (can't get any worse anyways), but you still want a 3pt specialist to be more consistent.

"since march" is deceiving...

March = 5 games due to the COVID shutdown. here is his 3Pt shooting in that span:

1-1
2-4
1-4
0-1
1-7

Super small sample and a bit skewed by one really poor shooting night. This wasnt like a 13 game month where he just stunk it up. He didnt shoot great in the bubble, but again, the dude had COVID and a 4 month layoff from the shutdown. i dont think you can really put much weight into that. he has been an elite shooter since birth on every level on extremely large samples. he didnt forget how to shoot.

CalamityX12 wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:Judging a guy off 3 games doesn't make sense. He's a 40% career shooter, and that's with a huge shooting slump last year in the bubble. He was also due for the sophomore slump. The Clippers made a trade that they thought could make them better, they also picked up some assets in the move, so it made sense for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they thought he sucked and had no role for them, just that they thought Kennard was a better player, which is fair. We picked up Shamet and Brown for guys that were never going to get much playing time for us (Musa, Bey, and 2nd rounders)...and Musa ended up getting waived immediately anyway. So it made a lot of sense for us too.

We moved players that were never going to see the court outside of garbage time for actual rotation-level players. Does anyone really think we'd be better off with Bey or Musa instead of Shamet right now?

I’d feel better off with Bey getting minutes and learning with our current structure with Shamet playing as he is... Bey brings more when not shooting where as Shamet doesn’t seem to.

But it is too small of a sample.. we’ll see.

Detroit is terrible for player evaluation, can’t judge their players lol

I dont think bey brings more. i think shamet is the tougher grittier player and a pest defensively. Maybe bey one day will be a strong defender who makes smart decisions. but no chance he would have provided more then shamet. he'd be sitting next to brown talking about where to get dinner after the game

therealbig3 wrote:

Sharcm1 wrote:

DarkXaero wrote:Lol, you can't dismiss **** nights like that. It's the same type of argument people make to prop up Levert.

Levert can do other things if he isn’t shooting well. Like last night. Shamet doesn’t seem to have anything else.

Nobody is comparing the two. Levert is supposed to be better than Shamet. Levert is our 6th man and 3rd or 4th best overall player with Dinwiddie out, while Shamet's job is to just come in and give an offensive spark with his shooting, which he's admittedly failed at so far.

The point though is that some people tend to excuse away or ignore bad games from Levert, so that all we're looking at is his absolute best moments, and it just doesn't work that way. Can't do the same thing with Shamet by just hand-waving away an 0-8 shooting night just because it was especially ugly.

This is spot on.... the last 4 years Levert would continually turn in awful shooting nights with weak defense but all forgiven anytime he had a good game.

Shamet cant get even an inch of slack after 4 games.

This is Crabbe/Joe Harris all over again. Crabbe could do no wrong, Joe was a scrub who no one would even consider may actually be a solid player despite his numbers being right in line with crabbes

Prokorov wrote:

CalamityX12 wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:Judging a guy off 3 games doesn't make sense. He's a 40% career shooter, and that's with a huge shooting slump last year in the bubble. He was also due for the sophomore slump. The Clippers made a trade that they thought could make them better, they also picked up some assets in the move, so it made sense for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they thought he sucked and had no role for them, just that they thought Kennard was a better player, which is fair. We picked up Shamet and Brown for guys that were never going to get much playing time for us (Musa, Bey, and 2nd rounders)...and Musa ended up getting waived immediately anyway. So it made a lot of sense for us too.

We moved players that were never going to see the court outside of garbage time for actual rotation-level players. Does anyone really think we'd be better off with Bey or Musa instead of Shamet right now?

I’d feel better off with Bey getting minutes and learning with our current structure with Shamet playing as he is... Bey brings more when not shooting where as Shamet doesn’t seem to.

But it is too small of a sample.. we’ll see.

Detroit is terrible for player evaluation, can’t judge their players lol

I dont think bey brings more. i think shamet is the tougher grittier player and a pest defensively. Maybe bey one day will be a strong defender who makes smart decisions. but no chance he would have provided more then shamet. he'd be sitting next to brown talking about where to get dinner after the game

Shamet is on course to do the same thing. He’s getting closer to ordering Uber eats for everyone...

But lets hope he turns it around tonight

(And he’s really not a pesky defender... he was getting blown by the Grizz over n over... he was a cone with feet)