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Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES

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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#201 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Jan 2, 2021 11:21 am

Prokorov wrote:Allen/DJ debate is blah. they are more or less the same player.


How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#202 » by Prokorov » Sat Jan 2, 2021 2:27 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:Allen/DJ debate is blah. they are more or less the same player.


How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok


Because it's true. DJ has been hated on since the day he was sign. the numbers tell another story. He unobjectively outplayed allen to earn a starting spot last year. Allen was great in the bubble. we have not seen that allen this year... other then maybe 1 game? Allen's raw scoring has been better then DJ... but DJ is also playing in a lineup where KD/Kyrie are going to take the majority of the shots. beyond that...

DJ better Drtg, allen better Ortg. DJ better BMP/RPM. DJ better Dbpm/Drpm, DJ better Obpm/Orpm/Vorp

Nets are better on/off with DJ. Not with Allen. again playing more with KD/Kyrie skews that to DJ but some of those metrics are 5-man linup agnostic.

PEope are mad at DJ because they think he demanded to start. but unobjectively he outplayed allen to earn it last year and thus far this year allen has certainly not outplayed him enough to definitievly earn it.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#203 » by Prokorov » Sat Jan 2, 2021 2:29 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:Wow, Kyrie is clearly off. It’s pretty safe to say he’s in a slump. I hope he finds other ways to contribute offensively until his touch comes back.

I wouldn't say a slump yet, but I take your point.

Before this series, Irving was red hot from all levels. Atlanta has strategically cooled him off, and he's going to have to counter the counter. Other assistant coaches will scout and pick up on the effectiveness of the Hawks' strategy against him.

One of the many reasons that I lamented Spencer's injury was that it made Kyrie easier to stop, since he's bringing up the ball more often AND looking for his own shot. I thought that TLC's 3&D would do the most to help our starters, and it still may. It's too early to change it now, we can give him a bit more time to adapt. But gosh, he certainly hasn't wowed anyone so far with this golden opportunity.

Maybe we need a tough-nosed defender in the 1st unit, who can also bring up the ball and give Irving a break. Where ever shall we find such a player????


good point about TLC vs. Dinwiddie forcing kyrie to bring it up the floor less. Maybe Caris does find his way back to starting
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Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#204 » by Paradise » Sat Jan 2, 2021 2:55 pm

therealbig3 wrote:I agree that we're overreacting to a 6 game stretch where we're not 6-0. Like, we're 3-3 after 6 games. Things could be A LOT worse.

Also, we don't go from being a championship contender to a team that now needs significant roster improvement all of a sudden just because Dinwiddie is out. If we needed him that much to be a championship contender, we probably weren't one in the first place.


Dinwiddie will be important to any team trying to contend. He’s a scoring threat. Why do you think other teams looking to contend wanted him? He’s a secondary ball handler and also best at attacking the lane beyond Ky, KD, Joe. He’s gotten easy baskets for us in both opening wins off steals and downhill attacking. That’s not even the point, though.

If guys like LeVert, Shamet, Prince cannot step up and replace a role or up their production this isn’t a top 3 contender. Period. I get it’s early but still.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#205 » by Sharcm1 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 3:25 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:Allen/DJ debate is blah. they are more or less the same player.


How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok


Because it's true. DJ has been hated on since the day he was sign. the numbers tell another story. He unobjectively outplayed allen to earn a starting spot last year. Allen was great in the bubble. we have not seen that allen this year... other then maybe 1 game? Allen's raw scoring has been better then DJ... but DJ is also playing in a lineup where KD/Kyrie are going to take the majority of the shots. beyond that...

DJ better Drtg, allen better Ortg. DJ better BMP/RPM. DJ better Dbpm/Drpm, DJ better Obpm/Orpm/Vorp

Nets are better on/off with DJ. Not with Allen. again playing more with KD/Kyrie skews that to DJ but some of those metrics are 5-man linup agnostic.

PEope are mad at DJ because they think he demanded to start. but unobjectively he outplayed allen to earn it last year and thus far this year allen has certainly not outplayed him enough to definitievly earn it.



I disagree. Just watching the games you can see the glaring issues with DJ. Even Durant and Irving are starting to get on him. Rebounding is a huge issue. He is supposed to be the big banger and he is getting his butt kicked. His lack of foot speed is an issue on defense and rebounding. He doesn’t make up for it on the offensive end.

Allen has his weaknesses but at least his effort makes up for some of it. He has work to do but at least he tries. Dj too often just stands there
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#206 » by MrDollarBills » Sat Jan 2, 2021 6:27 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:Allen/DJ debate is blah. they are more or less the same player.


How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok


Because it's true. DJ has been hated on since the day he was sign. the numbers tell another story. He unobjectively outplayed allen to earn a starting spot last year. Allen was great in the bubble. we have not seen that allen this year... other then maybe 1 game? Allen's raw scoring has been better then DJ... but DJ is also playing in a lineup where KD/Kyrie are going to take the majority of the shots. beyond that...

DJ better Drtg, allen better Ortg. DJ better BMP/RPM. DJ better Dbpm/Drpm, DJ better Obpm/Orpm/Vorp

Nets are better on/off with DJ. Not with Allen. again playing more with KD/Kyrie skews that to DJ but some of those metrics are 5-man linup agnostic.

PEope are mad at DJ because they think he demanded to start. but unobjectively he outplayed allen to earn it last year and thus far this year allen has certainly not outplayed him enough to definitievly earn it.



Are you watching the games or just looking at the numbers?
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#207 » by DarkXaero » Sat Jan 2, 2021 6:52 pm

Y'all should know better than to argue with a guy who loves to be a contrarian.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#208 » by Claud » Sat Jan 2, 2021 6:54 pm

A stinker. Learn from it, forget about it and move on.

Our defense was destroyed and our rebounding wasn't great but what killed us was our TERRIBLE 3pt shooting.

I think it's still early but It might be time for Nash to switch things up a bit. Don't love our current rotation/minutes assigments.

The Hawks offense absolutely destroyed our defense. Very impressed by ATL. They are definately a playoffs team.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#209 » by Prokorov » Sun Jan 3, 2021 1:26 am

Sharcm1 wrote:

I disagree. Just watching the games you can see the glaring issues with DJ. Even Durant and Irving are starting to get on him. Rebounding is a huge issue. He is supposed to be the big banger and he is getting his butt kicked. His lack of foot speed is an issue on defense and rebounding. He doesn’t make up for it on the offensive end.


No one is saying 23DJ doesnt have his flaws, or is even playing particularly well. The claim was "there isnt much difference betwee23n DJ and Fro right now" which has alot more to do with Allen not playing well himself then DJ being some outstanding player. If the allen we saw in the bubble was the allen we saw these first 6 games he'd be starting in short order. provlem is, we havent seen that guy

Allen has his weaknesses but at least his effort makes up for some of it. He has work to do but at least he tries. Dj too often just stands there


Allen has shown some inconsistent effort himself and at times has looked really lost defensively.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#210 » by Prokorov » Sun Jan 3, 2021 1:27 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
How can you objectively say this? You know that's far from the truth Prok


Because it's true. DJ has been hated on since the day he was sign. the numbers tell another story. He unobjectively outplayed allen to earn a starting spot last year. Allen was great in the bubble. we have not seen that allen this year... other then maybe 1 game? Allen's raw scoring has been better then DJ... but DJ is also playing in a lineup where KD/Kyrie are going to take the majority of the shots. beyond that...

DJ better Drtg, allen better Ortg. DJ better BMP/RPM. DJ better Dbpm/Drpm, DJ better Obpm/Orpm/Vorp

Nets are better on/off with DJ. Not with Allen. again playing more with KD/Kyrie skews that to DJ but some of those metrics are 5-man linup agnostic.

PEope are mad at DJ because they think he demanded to start. but unobjectively he outplayed allen to earn it last year and thus far this year allen has certainly not outplayed him enough to definitievly earn it.



Are you watching the games or just looking at the numbers?


Both.

DJ has been underwhelming but so has allen. this is not the allen we saw in the bubble
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#211 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jan 3, 2021 2:40 am

Meanwhile, the Cavs are beating Atlanta in the 4th qtr right now.

The Nets need to get their act together. Yesterday was an embarrassment. Kevin Durant can't be the only guy to show up against a good team. Things need to change quickly.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#212 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:05 am

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Because it's true. DJ has been hated on since the day he was sign. the numbers tell another story. He unobjectively outplayed allen to earn a starting spot last year. Allen was great in the bubble. we have not seen that allen this year... other then maybe 1 game? Allen's raw scoring has been better then DJ... but DJ is also playing in a lineup where KD/Kyrie are going to take the majority of the shots. beyond that...

DJ better Drtg, allen better Ortg. DJ better BMP/RPM. DJ better Dbpm/Drpm, DJ better Obpm/Orpm/Vorp

Nets are better on/off with DJ. Not with Allen. again playing more with KD/Kyrie skews that to DJ but some of those metrics are 5-man linup agnostic.

PEope are mad at DJ because they think he demanded to start. but unobjectively he outplayed allen to earn it last year and thus far this year allen has certainly not outplayed him enough to definitievly earn it.



Are you watching the games or just looking at the numbers?


Both.

DJ has been underwhelming but so has allen. this is not the allen we saw in the bubble


Eh, he's not scoring as much as he did in the bubble but the rebounding is there and he's hitting his FTs. I think my biggest problem with him right now is his stone hands but otherwise I think he's been one of our best players. Dude is posting a PER of 23 so I don't think he's been anywhere near underwhelming
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#213 » by Prokorov » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:10 am

MrDollarBills wrote:Meanwhile, the Cavs are beating Atlanta in the 4th qtr right now.

The Nets need to get their act together. Yesterday was an embarrassment. Kevin Durant can't be the only guy to show up against a good team. Things need to change quickly.


i mean if we play like this all year we are winning 55 games. we are a KD bunny away from being 4-1 when KD/Kyrie play. we laid and egg vs. atlanta. what the Cavs do to atlanta is irrelevant... hell atlanta probably looked past them after 2 games vs us.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#214 » by Prokorov » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:14 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:

Are you watching the games or just looking at the numbers?


Both.

DJ has been underwhelming but so has allen. this is not the allen we saw in the bubble


Eh, he's not scoring as much as he did in the bubble but the rebounding is there and he's hitting his FTs. I think my biggest problem with him right now is his stone hands but otherwise I think he's been one of our best players. Dude is posting a PER of 23 so I don't think he's been anywhere near underwhelming


He has a high PER because 99% of his FG are dunks (which isnt a bad thing but it inflates his PER). His turnovers are up, his blocks are down, his DRTG is down his BPM/RPM are down. he has struggled defensively in most of these games. there really is no drop off from DJ to Allen or vice versa right now. Allen can change that
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#215 » by MGrand15 » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:19 am

I think we're overreacting a lot. Atlanta is good. We put up a stinker after New Years and they punished us. Outside of that, our 2nd unit has been terrible and I'm still overall happy with the team play.

My only issue is DJ and Prince - I can excuse poor play but not poor effort. These are backbreaking plays. Open layups for no reason. Easy offensive rebounds for the other team. Dumb midrange shots as the 4th option on the floor.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#216 » by Prokorov » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:45 am

MGrand15 wrote:I think we're overreacting a lot. Atlanta is good. We put up a stinker after New Years and they punished us. Outside of that, our 2nd unit has been terrible and I'm still overall happy with the team play.



Agree. I feel like if KD hit that shot vs. charlotte and we were 4-1 instead of 3-2 (with KY/KD in the lineup) people would be talking about a finals lock vs. the doom and gloom.

Outside of some horrid shooting from good to elite shooters and maybe some lack of intensity here and their the early returns look great.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#217 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jan 3, 2021 4:50 am

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Both.

DJ has been underwhelming but so has allen. this is not the allen we saw in the bubble


Eh, he's not scoring as much as he did in the bubble but the rebounding is there and he's hitting his FTs. I think my biggest problem with him right now is his stone hands but otherwise I think he's been one of our best players. Dude is posting a PER of 23 so I don't think he's been anywhere near underwhelming


He has a high PER because 99% of his FG are dunks (which isnt a bad thing but it inflates his PER). His turnovers are up, his blocks are down, his DRTG is down his BPM/RPM are down. he has struggled defensively in most of these games. there really is no drop off from DJ to Allen or vice versa right now. Allen can change that


100% of Jordan's field goals are dunks. That's not a good explanation as to why Allen's PER is superior. A 23 PER isn't the result of underwhelming play bro.

Allen's blocks are right where they were last season per game.

Frankly I don't see how Allen has been worse than Jordan defensively. Allen challenges everything when he is in position to do so as opposed to Jordan who stands with his feet flat on the floor as guys get lay ups and dunks. Jordan stands around and gives up offensive rebounds consistently. He has been horrible.

This notion that there is no difference between Allen and Jordan is bogus. You're using these early stats to paint a false picture that defies the eye test.

Maybe Jordan's metrics look better because he's playing with an elite defender most of the time at PF...I dunno. All I know is, the Nets suck balls when Jordan is on the floor. You think that KD and Kyrie have spazzed on DJ for no reason?
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#218 » by Prokorov » Sun Jan 3, 2021 5:52 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Eh, he's not scoring as much as he did in the bubble but the rebounding is there and he's hitting his FTs. I think my biggest problem with him right now is his stone hands but otherwise I think he's been one of our best players. Dude is posting a PER of 23 so I don't think he's been anywhere near underwhelming


He has a high PER because 99% of his FG are dunks (which isnt a bad thing but it inflates his PER). His turnovers are up, his blocks are down, his DRTG is down his BPM/RPM are down. he has struggled defensively in most of these games. there really is no drop off from DJ to Allen or vice versa right now. Allen can change that


100% of Jordan's field goals are dunks. That's not a good explanation as to why Allen's PER is superior. A 23 PER isn't the result of underwhelming play bro.

Allen's blocks are right where they were last season per game.

Frankly I don't see how Allen has been worse than Jordan defensively. Allen challenges everything when he is in position to do so as opposed to Jordan who stands with his feet flat on the floor as guys get lay ups and dunks. Jordan stands around and gives up offensive rebounds consistently. He has been horrible.

This notion that there is no difference between Allen and Jordan is bogus. You're using these early stats to paint a false picture that defies the eye test.

Maybe Jordan's metrics look better because he's playing with an elite defender most of the time at PF...I dunno. All I know is, the Nets suck balls when Jordan is on the floor. You think that KD and Kyrie have spazzed on DJ for no reason?



The nets are actually good when Jordan is on the floor. to say otherwise is nonsense. and allen has been really poor protecting the rim thus far. Jordan isnt the only one giving up a ton of layups and offensive rebounds. Allen was dunked on several times last game. so lets no pretend he is out there like motumbo.

Allen has been just as poor as DJ. better offensively, worse defensively.
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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#219 » by StepBackCrack » Sun Jan 3, 2021 6:28 pm

Prokorov wrote:Allen has been just as poor as DJ. better offensively, worse defensively.


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Re: Game 2: Hawks vs Nets - Friday, 01/01/21 | 7:30pm EST | YES 

Post#220 » by StepBackCrack » Sun Jan 3, 2021 7:00 pm

Ok, I admit I overacted a bit in my initial post but there is still some reasons to be concerned about this team and these concerns needs to be addressed by Nash. Nash still does have options. He just needs to use them better. For example, limiting DJ to 10-12 minutes a game. TLC shouldn't play that much. Try Bruce Brown and eventually give Clax some minutes. Then if some things are still concerning by the trade deadline, they should trade to improve the weakness of this team. Trade for a defensive wing especially.

This would be my prefered starting lineup for now btw:

Kyrie
Harris
KD
Green
Allen

Pretty balanced lineup that gives you decent defense/good rebounding and lets KD play his original position.

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