ImageImageImageImageImage

GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST

Moderators: NyCeEvO, Rich Rane

User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 35,681
And1: 13,665
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#241 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:08 am

Paradise wrote:
Shark wrote:
Paradise wrote:He also spaces the floor and we can’t get the with DJ or Allen which makes their poor rebounding and interior D in key moments even worse.

I mean, if you want spacing you might as well go with Green as a small ball 5. Claxton isn't the answer at the 5 as much as I like him. Maybe you could give him some spot minutes at the 4 if Prince continues to be poor.

Claxton hasn’t seen the floor since he got injured last season and he was so good we ran lineups with him and Allen in the front court. I don’t expect him to fix our woes but Claxton could actually switch on guards, block shots and hit outside shots. It’s something to think about going forward.

We’re paying DJ around 10 million to sit on the bench. We could dish out a matched offer for Allen worth over 60 million and he disappears on key possessions and it’s been happening since the Sixers series. He still is inconsistent despite a nice stat line. Don’t get me started on Caris...

It’s not a thing to overlook when we have to pay this guy long term while having a kid with a rookie salary on the roster rehabbing with a similar skill set on a contender.



Claxton isn't available, that's the problem. We don't know what he will do when thrown into high level play situations. We can't go off of garbage minutes from last year, last year was a throwaway, this is the real deal and every team is coming at our heads and so far our roleplayers are not responding to the challenge.

It won't be long before KD and Kyrie loses confidence in their teammates.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 35,681
And1: 13,665
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#242 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:09 am

NyCeEvO wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
GTR11 wrote:Because he doing better than Allen and DJ. Also he provides offense what those two bums can't.


We got killed inside by Bryant. I don't blame Green for that, Allen and Jordan are borderline unplayable.

We don’t have a single athletic, big bodied 5 to matchup with even role players. Guys like Bryant will continue to have a field day down low and get offensive boards and easy baskets, since DJ can’t move laterally to save his life and Jarrett is pretty weak and has butter fingers.

I was calling for this type of big during the offseason, but we decided to go with more guards. Ibaka would’ve been a huge addition. I don’t know who is currently or will become available that can fill that role for us.


I would give Robert Perry a shot to be honest. At this point I want to throw both Allen and Jordan in the trash.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 35,681
And1: 13,665
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#243 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:10 am

DarkXaero wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
GTR11 wrote:Because he doing better than Allen and DJ. Also he provides offense what those two bums can't.


We got killed inside by Bryant. I don't blame Green for that, Allen and Jordan are borderline unplayable.
I'm arguing that Allen should have been in for single DEFENSIVE possession where we needed to secure a rebound.


Oh I agree there.

That's not Jeff Green's fault, that's Steve Nash's fault.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 35,681
And1: 13,665
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#244 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:13 am

Paradise wrote:
gigantes wrote:
Paradise wrote:media3.giphy.com/media/l4pTsh45Dg7jnDM6Q/giphy.gif

That just seems like an absurdly premature take, though.

Clax has demonstrated to me repeatedly that he's a beast of a player, mostly limited by his frailness. Sure he's gonna have his weaknesses no matter what, but he really takes it to a defense in ways that DeJordan and Fro are nowhere close to IMO. He also just might be an incredibly active high-switcher on D, which is worth something, too.

He also spaces the floor and we can’t get the with DJ or Allen which makes their poor rebounding and interior D in key moments even worse.


I like Claxton but there is zero data to suggest that he can even remotely space the floor.
User avatar
NyCeEvO
Forum Mod - Nets
Forum Mod - Nets
Posts: 20,944
And1: 5,277
Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#245 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:15 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:I have zero problems with Nash. Rotations aren’t the problem. Going deeper into the bench (i.e. giving worse players more minutes) isn’t going to help. The only slight adjustment I would consider is having Chiozza run more backup PG since Caris doesn’t organize the unit well at all.

IMO, the issue is personnel, not coaching. I was clamoring for a 3&D wing and another 4/5 man during the offseason because I always felt that we were missing a wing defender who can cover 2s, 3s, & 4s as well as players who can actually fight for contested rebounds.


Robert Covington could have been had. Instead, Marks chose to waste our window of opportunity by not getting a guy who is an established veteran.

Yeah, even if it wasn’t RoCo himself, I really wish Marks would’ve brought in a starting caliber 3&D piece. While I think TLC can fill that role adequately for the time being, imagine him a more established player like Tucker and RoCo are better, and then we could’ve had TLC subbing for them off the bench. That would’ve been nice.

Right now that Landry and Brown trade isn't helping us. I'm trying to stay patient but we don't have a large window of opportunity and KD already looks frustrated AFTER 7 GAMES, and rightfully so. Guys aren't stepping up, the bigs aren't doing their job.

This is quickly becoming a disaster.

I don’t have a problem with the trade in itself. It’s highly unlikely that a rookie would come in and immediately play himself into the rotation.

I’m not really worried about Landry and Brown. I’m sure they will play valuable roles as the season progresses. I do think Landry would benefit from playing a bit faster and within structured offensive sets. I know he can handle the ball a little bit, but I’d rather have him focusing his attention on catching-and-shooting rather than putting the ball down and dribbling into his shots or trying to create.

If we can somehow address defensive wing depth and rebounding with valuable role players, we’ll be fine. If not, it’ll be a long season.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 35,681
And1: 13,665
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#246 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:23 am

I think we need to do two things:

Start Irving/Harris/KD/Green/Allen

Get Rodi, Chiozza, and Brown into the rotation.

I'm tired of low effort and LeVert's ball hogging. Let Chiozza run the offense. LeVert's privileges should be revoked. He sucks.

TLC is a good player, but not starter caliber. Time to start the big boys.
CalamityX12
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 12,980
And1: 1,515
Joined: Mar 15, 2012
         

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#247 » by CalamityX12 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:24 am

Should’ve went after Batum or if we did, gone harder.... we were handcuffed with offer abilities I know...

Also the offense is mainly driven by KD n KI at high levels, while that’s promising in itself, its’ also concerning cause, if they don’t play or are off, where does the offense come from? Really thought we would have more of a ball share or run schemes similar to the old PHX days that Nash came from.... this offense is almost no better than Kenny’s.

Shooters gotta shoot, Harris needs a lot more shots, probably also play him when KD isn’t on the floor, we are paying Harris top dollar to provide. This comes to rotation and lineups.... Shamet needs more attempts as well. While he is in poor form believe it or not, he needs to do what he was suppose to do. He wasn’t traded for our first to play weak defense or hand around, he needs to make 3s and make him at a high clip. THat’s what elite shooters do right? To get that chance, he needs his chances in which the 2nd unit design/offense isn’t providing to him.

Levert must play off ball with the occasional handler duty, cheese or TJ needs to get in... and if we need defense, bring in Brown, Levert and TLC to run a tight clamp to change things up, use your stupid bench.

If Allen and Jordan aren’t doing well, get Perry in, the **** he helping sitting on the bench, let him do what he does well!
The ModFather

My sports teams are currently experiencing suckiness. Please pardon the mess.
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 14,995
And1: 733
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#248 » by ecuhus1981 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:37 am

CalamityX12 wrote:Imagine if we didn’t have KD and/or KI, this would be a winless team... lol

Ahhh scary... plenty of time to turn it around but gotta get to that direction first!

Yessir, in order to get out of a hole, you first have to stop digging. We have some fracking oil drillers in the rotation right now!!!
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
drchaos
Senior
Posts: 575
And1: 153
Joined: Feb 01, 2019
       

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#249 » by drchaos » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:44 am

Rodi can play some D.

I would like to see him get more minutes.
User avatar
NyCeEvO
Forum Mod - Nets
Forum Mod - Nets
Posts: 20,944
And1: 5,277
Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#250 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:19 am

DarkXaero wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:I don't think this is true. We have a legitimate rotation player in Tyler Johnson who is buried on the bench. TJ used to be a 6th man in Miami, and I realize that he had an awful year & a half before signing with us, but he played quite well for us in the bubble. He's a secondary shot creator/ball handler who can shoot off the dribble.

We also have Bruce Brown who started 43 out of 58 games for the Pistons last season, and he's probably the best perimeter defender on the entire roster. He's a subpar player offensively, but he can make the corner 3, and he has some ball handling/playmaking ability as well.

Those are 3 options, that can all be tried over Shamet or the over reliance on Levert, who has arguably been the worst player in our rotation.


Offense isn’t the problem. Despite Levert’s struggles, we’re still scoring the ball quite well as a team. Our main problems are wing/interior defense and rebounding. TJ, Bruce Brown, nor Chiozza are going to address any of those issues. But to address the players you mentioned...

Tyler Johnson
Tyler Johnson has arthroscopic knee surgery towards the end of the 2019 season and is nowhere near as good as he was when we signed him to an offer sheet in 2016. Hence the reason why he had an awful year & a half. There’s a reason why he wasn’t already on another team when we were heading into the bubble...he’s not that good.

And if one’s play in the bubble was an indication of how good a player is right now, Levert should be playing like a really good 6th man. Now, Tyler Johnson is a slashing guard who can shoot some 3s. He’s definitely no longer a ‘shot creator/ballhandler who can shoot off the dribble’. While I’m sure he’s a better spot-up shooter than Levert, there’s no way he’s a better ballhandler or shot creator.

Bruce Brown
The Pistons won 20 games and were clearly tanking last season. Brown being a starter on that team means next to nothing. Derrick Rose was clearly the better PG, but at this point of his career, he’s better as a 6th man than as the daily starter.

Levert is still a better ballhandler You’re massively overrating Brown’s ballhandling/playmaking ability if you think he can essentially take over Levert’s position and run the team


IMO, Chiozza is clearly the best ballhandler and facilitator out of the 3 players you mentioned. The main issue is that if he’s on the floor for too long, the opposing team will take advantage of the size mismatch. I think Levert would look much better out there if he was paired with Chiozza, so that he could actually spend some time as a slasher and get his points from cuts to the basket and catch-and-shoot midrange shots. He’s clearly struggling handling full-time ball distributor duties.
Offense is absolutely a problem, we're getting NOTHING outside of KD, Kyrie, and Joe (when he has good games). Have you look at KD & Kyrie's numbers? They're putting up awesome numbers on god tier efficiency that isn't sustainable, playing heavy minutes and yet we're still 3-4. Sure, the incredibly sloppy turnovers will reduce in frequency over time, and we'll perhaps start running better/more offensive sets as the season progresses. But our bench has been a huge problem and its a clear struggle offensively for those guys, and that's what I'm referring to. Our "depth" gets outplayed by the other team's depth.

What I meant was that out of all of the issues that are contributing to our current situation, our offensive output is not responsible for our mediocre record. Of course, our offensive production is unsustainable and far from ideal, but my point is that if we played better defense and rebounded better, the opposition would have lower quality shot attempts and fewer extra possessions.

With an average defense and rebounding effort, we should be 6-1 based on what Kyrie and KD have given us. We lost 3 games on turnovers, poor defense, and abysmal rebounding, not due to a lack of offensive execution.


Tyler Johnson averaged 12 PPG, 3 APG, and 3 RPG on 55.2% TS% in the 8 seeding games in the bubble. He followed that up by averaging 14 PPG on 58.7% TS% in the 4 playoffs games against the Toronto Raptors. It's incredibly unfair to bring up Levert's play in the bubble as a comparison to downplay what Tyler Johnson did there. Levert has been inconsistent his whole NBA career. Tyler Johnson has shown nothing but positive play here when he has actually been given playing time. I don't see why you feel the need to downplay or dismiss this. All I'm saying is that he deserves a chance and that he actually makes sense for our bench unit atm.

Bruce Brown was an okay starter on that Pistons team, and certainly proved himself to be a NBA player. I've mentioned what he actually showed last season: a legitimately really good perimeter defender who actually has some ball handling/playmaking skills, but a poor shooter who can only hit the corner 3. I said he has "some ballhandling/playmaking ability", and you somehow took that as "massively overrating Brown's ballhandling/playmaking ability if you think he can essentially take over Levert’s position and run the team". What are you on, man? :lol:


I merely disagreed with your assessment of Tyler’s play style, that’s all.

His overall production was quite fine, although one could argue that he began with a bad streak in his first 4 games [7/36 FG (19.44%) & 3/15 3FG (20%)] and ended on a good streak pretty good in his last 4 [23/42 FG (54.76%) & 11/21 3FG (52.38%) plus the playoffs.

I never said he shouldn’t play. I just don’t think Tyler and Bruce Brown getting minutes addresses our biggest areas of weakness at the moment.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 36,566
And1: 12,084
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#251 » by Prokorov » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:20 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
We got killed inside by Bryant. I don't blame Green for that, Allen and Jordan are borderline unplayable.

We don’t have a single athletic, big bodied 5 to matchup with even role players. Guys like Bryant will continue to have a field day down low and get offensive boards and easy baskets, since DJ can’t move laterally to save his life and Jarrett is pretty weak and has butter fingers.

I was calling for this type of big during the offseason, but we decided to go with more guards. Ibaka would’ve been a huge addition. I don’t know who is currently or will become available that can fill that role for us.


I would give Robert Perry a shot to be honest. At this point I want to throw both Allen and Jordan in the trash.


D-league scrubs like claxton and perry are not the awnser to anything other then "whats the worst coaching move you could possibly make?"
User avatar
NyCeEvO
Forum Mod - Nets
Forum Mod - Nets
Posts: 20,944
And1: 5,277
Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#252 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:21 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
We got killed inside by Bryant. I don't blame Green for that, Allen and Jordan are borderline unplayable.

We don’t have a single athletic, big bodied 5 to matchup with even role players. Guys like Bryant will continue to have a field day down low and get offensive boards and easy baskets, since DJ can’t move laterally to save his life and Jarrett is pretty weak and has butter fingers.

I was calling for this type of big during the offseason, but we decided to go with more guards. Ibaka would’ve been a huge addition. I don’t know who is currently or will become available that can fill that role for us.


I would give Robert Perry a shot to be honest. At this point I want to throw both Allen and Jordan in the trash.

We’ve seen Perry play. He’s ok, but he’s still a rookie with a lot to learn. He alone isn’t stopping the abuse on the boards or contributing to our defense.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 36,566
And1: 12,084
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#253 » by Prokorov » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:26 am

Lineup changes or rotation changes wont help. If anything it will make it worse since the issue isnt talent its chemistry. our biggest issue is turnovers. our second biggest issue is communication defensively. both those things improve with time... not by subbing in D-leaguers.

Durant 0-2 on game winning/game tying shots to end a game. ill take my chances on that over the long haul. eventually we wont turn it over 20 times a game. eventually guys will get comfortable and find what works communication wise.

Were fine. to much knee jerk. early returns on KD/Kyrie are fantastic. the rest will fall into place. the idea that one or two guys being swapped or traded will make that change is extremely unlikely. guys need to just have time together. we could easily be 6-1 right now. the sky isnt falling.

Also, i love how im a levert hater for 4 years but now all of a sudden "levert sucks" because peoples expecations were we steam roll the league and levert is some all-star based on an irrelevant bubble run.
User avatar
StepBackCrack
Starter
Posts: 2,355
And1: 3,029
Joined: Jul 11, 2016
 

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#254 » by StepBackCrack » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:29 am

Why the hell Nash doesn't start this?

Kyrie
Harris
KD
Green
Allen

That's the best possible line-up he has. Also, KD is getting really tired of playing at the 4 all the time. That's not his original position. He isn't supposed to kill himself vs bigger players on D. A defensive tough player at the 4 is desperately needed for this team.
Khashbaatar
Sophomore
Posts: 217
And1: 98
Joined: Jul 07, 2019
 

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#255 » by Khashbaatar » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:29 am

Early struggle is better than the playoff struggles. I have no doubt they'll figure this out.
My only worry is the minutes KD/Ky playing.
Also, WAS is much better than their deceitful record. Hachimura is back, Bertans is almost out of his shooting slump.
User avatar
StepBackCrack
Starter
Posts: 2,355
And1: 3,029
Joined: Jul 11, 2016
 

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#256 » by StepBackCrack » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:37 am

Seems like Kyrie and KD have to kill themselves every game for this team to have a chance. Even the offense is a big problem. There is no actual play sets for KD at all. He creates almost every shot himself. Same with Ki. Also very few shots for Harris. Levert thinks he is MJ and wants to take over. It's just a total mess out there.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 36,566
And1: 12,084
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#257 » by Prokorov » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:40 am

StepBackCrack wrote:Why the hell Nash doesn't start this?

Kyrie
Harris
KD
Green
Allen

That's the best possible line-up he has. Also, KD is getting really tired of playing at the 4 all the time. That's not his original position. He isn't supposed to kill himself vs bigger players on D. A defensive tough player at the 4 is desperately needed for this team.


3 of those 5 guys already start and allen/DJ are interchangeable.

so you are basically asking why Nash doesnt start Green over TLC. Probably because Jeff green isnt a starting calibur player, doesnt space the floor the way TLC does, and isnt capable of playing starters minutes at this point in his career. Also, Need to give TLC some time. you cant just change your starting lineup every other game.

Also, KD isnt "tired of playing the 4" nor does he bang with bigger players. he is 6'11". and like 90% of the NBA goes small at the 4. Our rebounding issues are not size issues. its positioning. Our centers are helping too often, leaving the 5 open on misses. again, its a chemistry issue not a personel issue. better communication on D, smarter play/rotation with familiarity, less of our centers out of position, less offensive rebounds allowed.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 36,566
And1: 12,084
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#258 » by Prokorov » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:42 am

StepBackCrack wrote:Seems like Kyrie and KD have to kill themselves every game for this team to have a chance. Even the offense is a big problem. There is no actual play sets for KD at all. He creates almost every shot himself. Same with Ki. Also very few shots for Harris. Levert thinks he is MJ and wants to take over. It's just a total mess out there.


A ton of action is run for KD. pin downs, screening and then coming off a screen. post with a double clear out. horns with him as the ball handler. rub off second action of high pick and roll.

Kyrie does more creating his own. KD does alot too... but when he gets a switch with a 5 or small on him its an easy bucket.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 35,681
And1: 13,665
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#259 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 2:15 pm

LeVert is shooting 37% from the field.

He is not justifying his usage rate. He needs to pass the ball and create shots. Every time he touches the ball the offense grinds to a halt.

Also, the Wizards shot the ball 104 times to our 81. Nets had 20 turnovers. We will lose every time if this is how things will play out. 2nd chance opportunities and sloppiness have been killing this team.
drchaos
Senior
Posts: 575
And1: 153
Joined: Feb 01, 2019
       

Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#260 » by drchaos » Mon Jan 4, 2021 2:26 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:LeVert is shooting 37% from the field.

He is not justifying his usage rate. He needs to pass the ball and create shots. Every time he touches the ball the offense grinds to a halt.

Also, the Wizards shot the ball 104 times to our 81. Nets had 20 turnovers. We will lose every time if this is how things will play out. 2nd chance opportunities and sloppiness have been killing this team.


LeVert got a ton of assists in a game earlier in the season.

I am not sure if the problem is LeVert being selfish or the other guys not earning his trust.

If Prince, Shamet, etc. are throwing up bricks I can see why Caris would feel inclined to play hero ball.

Return to Brooklyn Nets