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GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST

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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#261 » by Sharcm1 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 2:41 pm

The problems the nets have are solvable with this roster. Give it time. First change needs to be Allen starting. I also think levert should start. They need to start games better. Get into a rhythm. Changes needs to be made. Nash hasn’t adjusted anything.

The offensive sets seem to only have one goal. Get Irving and Durant the ball. They don’t seem to have offensive plays to run. This way the offense isn’t consistent enough to always out score teams. Which seems to be the only way they can win.

Hard to out scoring teams when you can’t rebound. Rebounding is much bigger than defense in this situation. Almost every game they lost, it was because of rebounds. Giving up numerous extra possessions to the other team. The defense is scrambling when that happens. It makes their lack of defensive cohesion worse. It has to be a team effort to block out and rebound every possession. It can’t be left up to one player. Allen tries but is often boxed out by two or three players. And DJ is too slow. He is often out quicked to the ball.

Defense is an issue too. But I think the defense will improve once they start rebounding.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#262 » by NetsJets » Mon Jan 4, 2021 2:43 pm

Sharcm1 wrote:The problems the nets have are solvable with this roster. Give it time. First change needs to be Allen starting. I also think levert should start. They need to start games better. Get into a rhythm. Changes needs to be made. Nash hasn’t adjusted anything.

The offensive sets seem to only have one goal. Get Irving and Durant the ball. They don’t seem to have offensive plays to run. This way the offense isn’t consistent enough to always out score teams. Which seems to be the only way they can win.

Hard to out scoring teams when you can’t rebound. Rebounding is much bigger than defense in this situation. Almost every game they lost, it was because of rebounds. Giving up numerous extra possessions to the other team. The defense is scrambling when that happens. It makes their lack of defensive cohesion worse. It has to be a team effort to block out and rebound every possession. It can’t be left up to one player. Allen tries but is often boxed out by two or three players. And DJ is too slow. He is often out quicked to the ball.

Defense is an issue too. But I think the defense will improve once they start rebounding.

LeVert can’t start on this team with KD and Kyrie imo. He needs shots to get into a rhythm and he’ll get even less shots in the starting lineup. His best role is being a 6th man.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#263 » by Prokorov » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:26 pm

NetsJets wrote:
Sharcm1 wrote:The problems the nets have are solvable with this roster. Give it time. First change needs to be Allen starting. I also think levert should start. They need to start games better. Get into a rhythm. Changes needs to be made. Nash hasn’t adjusted anything.

The offensive sets seem to only have one goal. Get Irving and Durant the ball. They don’t seem to have offensive plays to run. This way the offense isn’t consistent enough to always out score teams. Which seems to be the only way they can win.

Hard to out scoring teams when you can’t rebound. Rebounding is much bigger than defense in this situation. Almost every game they lost, it was because of rebounds. Giving up numerous extra possessions to the other team. The defense is scrambling when that happens. It makes their lack of defensive cohesion worse. It has to be a team effort to block out and rebound every possession. It can’t be left up to one player. Allen tries but is often boxed out by two or three players. And DJ is too slow. He is often out quicked to the ball.

Defense is an issue too. But I think the defense will improve once they start rebounding.

LeVert can’t start on this team with KD and Kyrie imo. He needs shots to get into a rhythm and he’ll get even less shots in the starting lineup. His best role is being a 6th man.


Agreed. Also starting Allen and moving DJ to the bench is a minimal impact move. its not going to drastically change much. Allen isnt going to see much of a minutes increase and his +/- next to levert is better then his +/- next to Kyrie. I'm hope allen will (and confident it will happen) win the starting job. but once he does its not going to be some monumental upgrade to the point where it drastically alters our cohesiion, success, etc... even if he is drastically outplaying DJ at some point he is still not going to be that much different to were its effecting games. its not like we would be swapping DJ for like, Markannen or some stretch 5 or Gobert some All-NBA 1st team defenser.

Rebounding also isnt our big issue. We gave up 12 more points off turnovers last night then we did off second chances. Consistently teams in the bottom 5-10 in rebounding are going deep in the playoffs.

You cant average 17 turnovers a game and do much damage though. and cleaning that up comes with time and chemistry
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#264 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:43 pm

Sharcm1 wrote:The problems the nets have are solvable with this roster. Give it time. First change needs to be Allen starting. I also think levert should start. They need to start games better. Get into a rhythm. Changes needs to be made. Nash hasn’t adjusted anything.

The offensive sets seem to only have one goal. Get Irving and Durant the ball. They don’t seem to have offensive plays to run. This way the offense isn’t consistent enough to always out score teams. Which seems to be the only way they can win.

Hard to out scoring teams when you can’t rebound. Rebounding is much bigger than defense in this situation. Almost every game they lost, it was because of rebounds. Giving up numerous extra possessions to the other team. The defense is scrambling when that happens. It makes their lack of defensive cohesion worse. It has to be a team effort to block out and rebound every possession. It can’t be left up to one player. Allen tries but is often boxed out by two or three players. And DJ is too slow. He is often out quicked to the ball.

Defense is an issue too. But I think the defense will improve once they start rebounding.


They do run sets (notice the screens on the left or right side at the top of the key and the double screens at the top), but we aren't seeing the high paced offensive system that we thought that we would see.

I don't agree with LeVert starting, he either pounds the ball looking for his shot or probes for a one pass set. He needs to be called out for what he's doing.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#265 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:45 pm

Prokorov wrote:
NetsJets wrote:
Sharcm1 wrote:The problems the nets have are solvable with this roster. Give it time. First change needs to be Allen starting. I also think levert should start. They need to start games better. Get into a rhythm. Changes needs to be made. Nash hasn’t adjusted anything.

The offensive sets seem to only have one goal. Get Irving and Durant the ball. They don’t seem to have offensive plays to run. This way the offense isn’t consistent enough to always out score teams. Which seems to be the only way they can win.

Hard to out scoring teams when you can’t rebound. Rebounding is much bigger than defense in this situation. Almost every game they lost, it was because of rebounds. Giving up numerous extra possessions to the other team. The defense is scrambling when that happens. It makes their lack of defensive cohesion worse. It has to be a team effort to block out and rebound every possession. It can’t be left up to one player. Allen tries but is often boxed out by two or three players. And DJ is too slow. He is often out quicked to the ball.

Defense is an issue too. But I think the defense will improve once they start rebounding.

LeVert can’t start on this team with KD and Kyrie imo. He needs shots to get into a rhythm and he’ll get even less shots in the starting lineup. His best role is being a 6th man.


Agreed. Also starting Allen and moving DJ to the bench is a minimal impact move. its not going to drastically change much. Allen isnt going to see much of a minutes increase and his +/- next to levert is better then his +/- next to Kyrie. I'm hope allen will (and confident it will happen) win the starting job. but once he does its not going to be some monumental upgrade to the point where it drastically alters our cohesiion, success, etc... even if he is drastically outplaying DJ at some point he is still not going to be that much different to were its effecting games. its not like we would be swapping DJ for like, Markannen or some stretch 5 or Gobert some All-NBA 1st team defenser.

Rebounding also isnt our big issue. We gave up 12 more points off turnovers last night then we did off second chances. Consistently teams in the bottom 5-10 in rebounding are going deep in the playoffs.

You cant average 17 turnovers a game and do much damage though. and cleaning that up comes with time and chemistry


the 2nd chance points are a huge reason as to why we are 3-4 right now. We give up too many offensive rebounds.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#266 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:46 pm

drchaos wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:LeVert is shooting 37% from the field.

He is not justifying his usage rate. He needs to pass the ball and create shots. Every time he touches the ball the offense grinds to a halt.

Also, the Wizards shot the ball 104 times to our 81. Nets had 20 turnovers. We will lose every time if this is how things will play out. 2nd chance opportunities and sloppiness have been killing this team.


LeVert got a ton of assists in a game earlier in the season.

I am not sure if the problem is LeVert being selfish or the other guys not earning his trust.

If Prince, Shamet, etc. are throwing up bricks I can see why Caris would feel inclined to play hero ball.


Prince is hitting threes at a 39% clip. He's not the issue here, LeVert has tunnel vision big time right now.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#267 » by drchaos » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:59 pm

NetsJets wrote:
Sharcm1 wrote:The problems the nets have are solvable with this roster. Give it time. First change needs to be Allen starting. I also think levert should start. They need to start games better. Get into a rhythm. Changes needs to be made. Nash hasn’t adjusted anything.

The offensive sets seem to only have one goal. Get Irving and Durant the ball. They don’t seem to have offensive plays to run. This way the offense isn’t consistent enough to always out score teams. Which seems to be the only way they can win.

Hard to out scoring teams when you can’t rebound. Rebounding is much bigger than defense in this situation. Almost every game they lost, it was because of rebounds. Giving up numerous extra possessions to the other team. The defense is scrambling when that happens. It makes their lack of defensive cohesion worse. It has to be a team effort to block out and rebound every possession. It can’t be left up to one player. Allen tries but is often boxed out by two or three players. And DJ is too slow. He is often out quicked to the ball.

Defense is an issue too. But I think the defense will improve once they start rebounding.

LeVert can’t start on this team with KD and Kyrie imo. He needs shots to get into a rhythm and he’ll get even less shots in the starting lineup. His best role is being a 6th man.


If LeVert takes on the role of facilitator and defender there is more he can do without taking so many shots.

When defenses try to close in on KD, Kyrie, and Harris LeVert can just take the rock to the hole.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#268 » by drchaos » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:02 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
drchaos wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:LeVert is shooting 37% from the field.

He is not justifying his usage rate. He needs to pass the ball and create shots. Every time he touches the ball the offense grinds to a halt.

Also, the Wizards shot the ball 104 times to our 81. Nets had 20 turnovers. We will lose every time if this is how things will play out. 2nd chance opportunities and sloppiness have been killing this team.


LeVert got a ton of assists in a game earlier in the season.

I am not sure if the problem is LeVert being selfish or the other guys not earning his trust.

If Prince, Shamet, etc. are throwing up bricks I can see why Caris would feel inclined to play hero ball.


Prince is hitting threes at a 39% clip. He's not the issue here, LeVert has tunnel vision big time right now.


Prince did miss five straight shots at one point this season.

I think we should give LeVert some slack this early in the season.

However, this tunnel vision is something that he and the coaches should be noticing and working on.

He had a bad game to be sure but we need to consider the lack of preseason and how his abilities will help this team when we get the playoffs.
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GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#269 » by Paradise » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:08 pm

OG Coleman knows what’s up.

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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#270 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:28 pm

drchaos wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
drchaos wrote:
LeVert got a ton of assists in a game earlier in the season.

I am not sure if the problem is LeVert being selfish or the other guys not earning his trust.

If Prince, Shamet, etc. are throwing up bricks I can see why Caris would feel inclined to play hero ball.


Prince is hitting threes at a 39% clip. He's not the issue here, LeVert has tunnel vision big time right now.


Prince did miss five straight shots at one point this season.

I think we should give LeVert some slack this early in the season.

However, this tunnel vision is something that he and the coaches should be noticing and working on.

He had a bad game to be sure but we need to consider the lack of preseason and how his abilities will help this team when we get the playoffs.


I'm trying to be patient here :lol: after these last two games it's been depressing, i wanted us to be world beaters.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#271 » by drchaos » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:29 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
drchaos wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prince is hitting threes at a 39% clip. He's not the issue here, LeVert has tunnel vision big time right now.


Prince did miss five straight shots at one point this season.

I think we should give LeVert some slack this early in the season.

However, this tunnel vision is something that he and the coaches should be noticing and working on.

He had a bad game to be sure but we need to consider the lack of preseason and how his abilities will help this team when we get the playoffs.


I'm trying to be patient here :lol: after these last two games it's been depressing, i wanted us to be world beaters.


If this was the NFL where 16 short games is all you got I would be with you but we could lose more than half of the first 20 games as long as we are clicking on all cylinders afterwards.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#272 » by Sharcm1 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:55 pm

You are all saying that levert holds the ball too much and takes bad shots and so on. But then say he shouldn’t start. Would starting next to Irving and Durant put him in a position to not do those things. He wouldn’t be able to do those things with Irving and Durant on the floor with him.

Levert’s problem is he is trying too hard. Too hard to be like Irving and Durant. They moved him into that position. Everyone was hyping it as he would run the second team and be able to dominate the second units etc. so that’s what he’s trying to do. That’s not his game. Moving him into the starting line up would reduce his role to what it should be.

And as for Allen starting this is the change that needs to happen. DJ needs to fight for his position and that’s not happening. How many times do DJ just stand there while rebounds for past him. Or stands there and doesn’t try to close out on a player and still doesn’t get the rebound. He needs more motivation and Allen is playing better.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#273 » by Teal25 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:59 pm

They need to stagger KD and Kyrie more and find a forward who can rebound and defend 4s. Plus play Deandre as less as possible.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#274 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 5:28 pm

Sharcm1 wrote:You are all saying that levert holds the ball too much and takes bad shots and so on. But then say he shouldn’t start. Would starting next to Irving and Durant put him in a position to not do those things. He wouldn’t be able to do those things with Irving and Durant on the floor with him.

Levert’s problem is he is trying too hard. Too hard to be like Irving and Durant. They moved him into that position. Everyone was hyping it as he would run the second team and be able to dominate the second units etc. so that’s what he’s trying to do. That’s not his game. Moving him into the starting line up would reduce his role to what it should be.

And as for Allen starting this is the change that needs to happen. DJ needs to fight for his position and that’s not happening. How many times do DJ just stand there while rebounds for past him. Or stands there and doesn’t try to close out on a player and still doesn’t get the rebound. He needs more motivation and Allen is playing better.



The problem is that LeVert is an abysmal shooter, so having him on the floor kills spacing.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#275 » by Sharcm1 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 6:16 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Sharcm1 wrote:You are all saying that levert holds the ball too much and takes bad shots and so on. But then say he shouldn’t start. Would starting next to Irving and Durant put him in a position to not do those things. He wouldn’t be able to do those things with Irving and Durant on the floor with him.

Levert’s problem is he is trying too hard. Too hard to be like Irving and Durant. They moved him into that position. Everyone was hyping it as he would run the second team and be able to dominate the second units etc. so that’s what he’s trying to do. That’s not his game. Moving him into the starting line up would reduce his role to what it should be.

And as for Allen starting this is the change that needs to happen. DJ needs to fight for his position and that’s not happening. How many times do DJ just stand there while rebounds for past him. Or stands there and doesn’t try to close out on a player and still doesn’t get the rebound. He needs more motivation and Allen is playing better.



The problem is that LeVert is an abysmal shooter, so having him on the floor kills spacing.


I disagree. I think he is a decent shooter but takes bad shots due to his role. He’s not Harris. But he’s not a horrible three point shooter. His role is not the one he is playing. It’s wrong for him.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#276 » by Minnamaker » Mon Jan 4, 2021 6:28 pm

Reading this thread, I agree with a lot what you said. In my opinion these are the main issues right now:

- no offense system. They run some pick and rolls and random off ball screens, but you don't see a real system. The announcers of game one or two said, that Nash focuses on defense and expects the offense to sort itself out. You can see that on the floor. That works when superior talent (Durant and Irving) is on the floor, but not for a whole game. You could see in the game against the wizards how people did not know where to be and go. You could see people running into each other. That leads to silly turnovers and a bad offensive flow. Especially when kd and ki are off the floor, this won't work. Levert could be a great sixth man, but he needs a system. Otherwise he's a ball hog without the talent of kd/ki.

- rebounds and defense. It's bad so far. The defense isn't good, but it's devastating if you have a decent defensive possession and don't secure the rebound. Allen is too week to clear the boards on his own. With defensive flaws, the rest of the team often switches and loose track of their box out assignment.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#277 » by Lamak » Mon Jan 4, 2021 7:18 pm

The coaching staff needs to be talking to our guys so they can make adjustments, they cant play shootout mode every game with kyrie and kd ball. we have the talent tho just have to gel
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#278 » by 3pt_chucker » Mon Jan 4, 2021 7:28 pm

Two thing the Nets need to address immediately if they want to get things back on track. Rebounding(2nd chance points) and turnovers. Everyone is quick to mention defense but the Nets straight up defense isn't really that bad . It's actually really good given the personnel. The problem is giving teams way to many extra opportunities to score.

Key Stats:
DEFRTG is 107.3 (12th in NBA)
Opponents EFG%: 48.6 (2nd BEST IN NBA)

Turnover % is 15.7. (21st in the NBA)
DREB % is 67.4 (WORST IN THE NBA)
Opponents pts off TOV: 20.4 (3rd most in NBA)
Opponents 2nd chance pts: 20.3 (WORST IN NBA)
Opponent OREB%: 32.6% (WORST IN THE NBA)

Those are egregious and damning stats. This also matches the eye test. This is holding the team back, since the Nets offense, which is not always 100% crisp, is not a problem at all. The team actually does get stops but gets abused on the boards, which usually leads to points. Then, there a re the dumb turnovers that also lead to easy points. FIx these two things and the Nets will be in good shape.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#279 » by MGrand15 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 7:37 pm

I have some legit concerns after this first stretch of games:

1. Coaching. We had a plan to start the season. Kyrie and KD were going to play together. LeVert was going to lead the 2nd unit. 1st 2 games we were all happy. The 2nd unit had a bad stretch in Charlotte, they had a bad game with Ky + KD sitting. Now the plan is scrapped. LeVert has gotten a handful of minutes as the lead ball handler since then - he's almost always next to Kyrie or KD. KD + Kyrie minutes are up. They're getting staggered a lot more. Some people agree with this plan or whatever but if we're scrapping things that don't work after a couple of games - we're never going to develop an identity. I would've 100% let the 2nd unit play through it for another stretch of games. See if they can develop a chemistry and rhythm. It's one thing to adjust, it's another to not give things a chance to work.

2. The JA-DJ thing needs to be figured out. Jarrett's season high in minutes is 25. I honestly don't care what the numbers say. The eye test shows that when we give up buckets or offensive rebounds with JA on the floor, he's at least TRYING. He's contesting shots. When DJ's out there, we give up so many wide open looks because he's too slow or just gives up on the play. He's averaging 2 TOs a game (3.8 per 36). These don't count the passes he just can't catch. Those are lead ball handler numbers. He's shooting 42% from the FT line. These are all wasted possessions. Super deflating.

3. The biggest one - this is a fragile team. We're not the Celtics, the Bucks, or the Lakers. Teams with a track record of success. Those guys will brush off a slow start. We're essentially a new team. With moody superstars. Under a big media spotlight. Brand new head coach. I think we'll be fine but we need to get it together quick. In fighting and cliques can easily break this team apart. The media is coming for our heads.

We have the talent here to get it done - even with Spencer out. Not giving up on the team after a short stretch.
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Re: GT: Wizards @ Nets - 01/03/21, 6pm EST 

Post#280 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 7:47 pm

3pt_chucker wrote:Two thing the Nets need to address immediately if they want to get things back on track. Rebounding(2nd chance points) and turnovers. Everyone is quick to mention defense but the Nets straight up defense isn't really that bad . It's actually really good given the personnel. The problem is giving teams way to many extra opportunities to score.

Key Stats:
DEFRTG is 107.3 (12th in NBA)
Opponents EFG%: 48.6 (2nd BEST IN NBA)

Turnover % is 15.7. (21st in the NBA)
DREB % is 67.4 (WORST IN THE NBA)
Opponents pts off TOV: 20.4 (3rd most in NBA)
Opponents 2nd chance pts: 20.3 (WORST IN NBA)
Opponent OREB%: 32.6% (WORST IN THE NBA)

Those are egregious and damning stats. This also matches the eye test. This is holding the team back, since the Nets offense, which is not always 100% crisp, is not a problem at all. The team actually does get stops but gets abused on the boards, which usually leads to points. Then, there a re the dumb turnovers that also lead to easy points. FIx these two things and the Nets will be in good shape.


Great post and highlights the team's biggest problems.

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