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Back away from the ledge....

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Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#1 » by Prokorov » Mon Jan 4, 2021 2:40 pm

It is easy to be reactionary in the game threads. I get that. But the panic here is really unwarranted at this juncture. Just wanted to point some things out to put it in perspective.

The majority of our struggles come down to familiarity, chemistry, and comfort. The things that have hurt us are not due to poor effort (even though some guys could give much better effort; not gonna argue/harp on who). The things that have hurt us are not personnel/lineup wise (even thought some guys have had rough starts). those 2 things can improve. it will help. but the real issue is:

-Familiarity
-Chemistry
-Comfort

Deandre and Prince playing harder will help. its not erasing 17 turnovers per game. Subbing in kurucs or perry or claxton or TJ might help. Its not going to change the constant miscommunications on defense leading to wide open dunks and threes. If anything quick hooks/lineup changes will only make the learning curve longer. Nash has commented multiple times after games communication is what needs to improve. i think he sees the bigger picture, that getting that chemistry will clean up a bulk of it, then once you have that changing in a guy here or a guy there is easier... i mean, look thats why he had KD/Kyrie play 100% together and even with the stagger its only 3 or 4 minutes apart for that duo. he wants that chemistry. he knows thats the foundation and you cant really make corrections until you have that base...

-THERE WAS NO PRESEASON we had a super short training camp with COVID restrictions followed by just 2 preseason games (many teams played twice that) and 1 of those games KD/Kyrie didnt play/play much. This is basically an extension of the preseason. a ton of these guys havent played together or in a long time.

-Kevin Durant just finished his second week of games.... he went 80 weeks without playing a game and is recovering from the worst injury you can basically have as an NBA player. Despite that he 28 points on 50/40/90 shooting with a heavily positive defensive rating. Thats KD "shaking the rust off". he will get better, but more importantly he will get more familiar and less sloppy.. He has turned it over a ton. alot of them dribbling the ball off his own foot. ball handling is one of the things that gets out of practice when you miss time.

-We lost a STARTER and one of the FEW HOLDOVERS from prior years in the first week of the season. its one thing to lose shamet or if KD has to rest but Joe/Caris/Spencer/Allen is the core thats been here a while. losing one of those guys doesnt help continuity and familiarity and chemistry. especially with TLC being a young inconsistent player at this point in his career. It takes time to replace that. at the point dinwiddie got injuryed, we were an undefeated team who looked alot more cohesive defensively and turned it over less. Dinwiddie also bridged the starting lineup to the bench and gave Caris help.

-The LERON JAMES MIAMI HEAT STARTED 8-9 THEIR FIRST 17 GAMES. Read that again until it sinks in. we are 3-4. a team that won 2 titles and went to 4 straight finals had a losing record twice as long as we currently have. And that was with Lebron in his prime/peak not coming off an ACL injury and a weird bubble pandemic. It took the heat a while to figure it out. if you look at the heats first 15 games vs our first 7 alot of similarities... a ton of turnovers, bench being outscored a otn, and gave up a ton of made threes.

-We are 3 SHOTS FROM BEING 6-1. A losing record is never fun. but we had a chance to tie/win 3 of these games in the final possession and missed some good looks. Again, KD not shaking off a 550 day layoff probably hits those shots at a higher rate than 0%.

-THE GRASS IS NOT GREENER! The knee jerk reaction is to bench whoever when the loses happen. But the clamoring for guys like Perry and Claxton is really silly. If Perry was a guy who was going to play meaningful minutes on a championship contending team he wouldn't have gotten picked an hour after most people went to sleep in the 50's of round 2. Those guys are only getting thrown around because there are no expectations so anything they do well is over highlighted and anything poor is ignored. and its in super small samples in low leverage minutes. Perry isnt helping more at C then Allen or DJ or even green at 15-25 minutes a game.



So step back from the ledge. Things are actually REALLY encouraging. hell even haters on the GB are like "they need time" in the "have the nets been exposed" thread.

Kyrie/KD look god-tier coming back from injury and playing together less then 10 games. we are basically running action to get them ISO's and they are destroying fools. and the guys they pass to are bricking wide open threes while Caris is in one of his inconsistent stretches... and we are still just a few shots from 6-1 and have been competitive in basically every game. We have been super disorganized on defense and had a major injury. give this team a month and once it clicks its going to be SCARY.

Sure talk about a trade, we could certainly use an oladipo type or a better dinwiddie soluton then TLC. but keep in mind, the big issue is not roster or lineup or effort (i admit those could all improve) but the big issue is just time. let this team gel.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#2 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:53 pm

Losing Dinwiddie was a brutal hit to this team's depth. I definitely think we need to make some sort of move, but I agree with the points about needing more time to gel.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#3 » by Stone » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:01 pm

All good points......these first 20 games or so will be an adjustment period for both the players and the coaching staff.

We have talent and sometimes situations like we are in can be a blessing in disguise.

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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#4 » by ecuhus1981 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:28 pm

There's a ton to dislike about our level of play in the first 47 minutes and 40 seconds of the Washington game. Given all that, I'm actually relieved that the ball didn't go on the basket during the last 20 seconds. Though I never want Brooklyn to lose, a game-winning shot would have masked systemic issues that we might not have addressed without that L.

I'm not under- or over-reacting. Physicality is our #1 problem. Teams have learned to punch us in the mouth early and often, because we have no "enforcer" or group mindset to meet aggression toe to toe. The don't respect our team as men or basketball players.

This pervasive issue bleeds into all of the symptoms that people like to mention:

-- atrocious, league-worst rate of 2nd chance points given up (no one boxes out)

-- cold 3pt shooting slumps (we get the yips when teams chase us off the line, instead of raising up,
protecting our airspace and going to the FT line for 3)

-- poor FG% at the rim from our supporting cast perimeter players (scared to death, scared to look, they shook)

We don't need any attaboys right now. I could go on just as long extolling our virtues, but that won't get us anywhere. Our problems are fixable, and they all stem from the same source. Steve, it's time to coach 'em up.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#5 » by Pelly24 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:47 pm

LeVert needs to get 16 a game on 55 TS%. That would go such a long way. It shouldn't be that hard but he just seems inept. DJ needs to try harder, Prince needs to be better.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#6 » by Lamak » Mon Jan 4, 2021 7:25 pm

Feel like we're still searching for our new identity, definitely need to have more hustle and effort though. We have the talent across the board to be greater.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#7 » by 3pt_chucker » Mon Jan 4, 2021 7:34 pm

Agreed with Prok. The immediate problems with the team are definitely fixable: 2nd chance pts, dumb turnovers and pts off turnovers.

Fix those and the Nets will start looking like the beginning of the season again.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#8 » by DarkXaero » Mon Jan 4, 2021 8:04 pm

I think the major issue is being understated here, and it's that the wide majority of our supporting cast has been dreadful.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

We were supposed to have one of the league's best bench units, and it has been the opposite so far. People keep focusing on DJ starting, but issues run deeper than that. 7 games in, the bench unit simply isn't working and takes our momentum away more often than not. A large part of it imo is the over reliance on Levert. Nash figured like the rest of us that he can't really play off ball, so he gave Levert the keys to the bench unit, and Levert has completely failed so far. He needs a 2nd playmaker next to him to take away some of the responsibility, and reduce his chucking tendencies.

Can he turn it around at some point? Probably. But it'll be a while till that happens. As of now, the only reliable players we have are KD, Kyrie, and Joe. Even Allen who looked great in the first few games, he has reverted back into his old tendencies last couple games.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#9 » by Pelly24 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:52 am

DarkXaero wrote:I think the major issue is being understated here, and it's that the wide majority of our supporting cast has been dreadful.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

We were supposed to have one of the league's best bench units, and it has been the opposite so far. People keep focusing on DJ starting, but issues run deeper than that. 7 games in, the bench unit simply isn't working and takes our momentum away more often than not. A large part of it imo is the over reliance on Levert. Nash figured like the rest of us that he can't really play off ball, so he gave Levert the keys to the bench unit, and Levert has completely failed so far. He needs a 2nd playmaker next to him to take away some of the responsibility, and reduce his chucking tendencies.

Can he turn it around at some point? Probably. But it'll be a while till that happens. As of now, the only reliable players we have are KD, Kyrie, and Joe. Even Allen who looked great in the first few games, he has reverted back into his old tendencies last couple games.




Yeah I completely agree. Honestly I've been more down on the "help" than most people from the beginning, but i figured there would at least be enough shooters. I think Allen's done enough to be considered solid up to this point. Shamet, DAJ, LeVert and everyone else needs to play at least to 80% of their capability. These next four games don't all have to be losses, and they can use this as an opportunity to grow.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#10 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jan 5, 2021 10:59 am

After the Durant news I'm back on the ledge. This season is spiraling out of control. :-?
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#11 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:22 pm

DarkXaero wrote:I think the major issue is being understated here, and it's that the wide majority of our supporting cast has been dreadful.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

We were supposed to have one of the league's best bench units, and it has been the opposite so far. People keep focusing on DJ starting, but issues run deeper than that. 7 games in, the bench unit simply isn't working and takes our momentum away more often than not. A large part of it imo is the over reliance on Levert. Nash figured like the rest of us that he can't really play off ball, so he gave Levert the keys to the bench unit, and Levert has completely failed so far. He needs a 2nd playmaker next to him to take away some of the responsibility, and reduce his chucking tendencies.

Can he turn it around at some point? Probably. But it'll be a while till that happens. As of now, the only reliable players we have are KD, Kyrie, and Joe. Even Allen who looked great in the first few games, he has reverted back into his old tendencies last couple games.


Bench's by nature are inconsistent... even the best ones. When you throw in some of these guys are adjusting from being starters and top 2-3 players on the team (Levert/Allen... Prince started a bit too) to the bench and others to a new team (Shamet/Green) then i think the struggles are not a concern unless we are 20ish games in and those guys are still chucking bricks.

I think also, when your team is build heavily around shooters you need to live through the poor shooting stretches. the BEST range shooters are at 40%. thats still missing more then not and a slump has you in the teens or low twenties. Guys are getting and taking shots they can make, which i find a bit encouraging.

Levert is in a slump, but he was never efficient. I also think the boards unrealistic expectations of him being a solid scorer and fringe all-star ae adding to the knee-jerk. Caris was always a solid player with a ceiling of good. not a good player with a ceiling for great. He will have a hot stretch again and then settle in closer to his norm... which is 15ish ppg on 52ish TS with ok 3 point shooting. Silver lining here for me is he is still getting a ton of usage despite playing on a team with Kyrie/KD and he really needs volume to be effective.

The rebounding thing to me, i just dont care about it. yeah we give up second chance points but there is 10 years of evidence to suggest you can suck at rebounding and win titles and make deep playoffs runs. where as there is little evidence you can turn it over 18 times a game and do so or allow 15 3PM a do that.

I think the turnovers will go away. KD is still scoring great but he isnt gonna dribble it off his foot all year so often. We also have throw more balls in the stands through 7 games then i can remeber all last year. that should trend down for sure. and the wide open 3s and wide open dunks... especially when we go zone, will get better even if it doesnt become good. that just takes trust and reps together. We are over-helping alot instead of sticking to the assignments and trusting teamates
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#12 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:26 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:After the Durant news I'm back on the ledge. This season is spiraling out of control. :-?


Yeah it sucks and honestly makes 0 sense. if its "contact tracing" why doesnt every Net player, every wizard player, and every hawk player also need to sit out 7 days? Your telling me durant didnt breath on anyone of his teammates or opponents the last 2 games? I'm 100% about safety but this is trash and just the "appearance of safety" to appease the masses that they arent being risky for the sake of billions and sports.

Anyhow, a rest for KD after his first 2 weeks back isnt the worst thing in the world. I also like that it forces bench and role guys who have sucked to step up. Maybe if they stink all 4 games that gets marks making some calls and expediting a deal or the step up and one KD comes back is lights out.

But if it was going to be a star, having it be KD is probably the best outcome
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#13 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jan 5, 2021 4:04 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:After the Durant news I'm back on the ledge. This season is spiraling out of control. :-?


Yeah it sucks and honestly makes 0 sense. if its "contact tracing" why doesnt every Net player, every wizard player, and every hawk player also need to sit out 7 days? Your telling me durant didnt breath on anyone of his teammates or opponents the last 2 games? I'm 100% about safety but this is trash and just the "appearance of safety" to appease the masses that they arent being risky for the sake of billions and sports.

Anyhow, a rest for KD after his first 2 weeks back isnt the worst thing in the world. I also like that it forces bench and role guys who have sucked to step up. Maybe if they stink all 4 games that gets marks making some calls and expediting a deal or the step up and one KD comes back is lights out.

But if it was going to be a star, having it be KD is probably the best outcome


That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around....like yeah, okay KD has to sit since he was exposed but...everyone else is fine? KD was breathing all over everyone in that Wizards game. Makes zero sense.

I'm fine with KD getting rest. I'm just worried that we may dig ourselves into a hole.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#14 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 5, 2021 4:12 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:After the Durant news I'm back on the ledge. This season is spiraling out of control. :-?


Yeah it sucks and honestly makes 0 sense. if its "contact tracing" why doesnt every Net player, every wizard player, and every hawk player also need to sit out 7 days? Your telling me durant didnt breath on anyone of his teammates or opponents the last 2 games? I'm 100% about safety but this is trash and just the "appearance of safety" to appease the masses that they arent being risky for the sake of billions and sports.

Anyhow, a rest for KD after his first 2 weeks back isnt the worst thing in the world. I also like that it forces bench and role guys who have sucked to step up. Maybe if they stink all 4 games that gets marks making some calls and expediting a deal or the step up and one KD comes back is lights out.

But if it was going to be a star, having it be KD is probably the best outcome


That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around....like yeah, okay KD has to sit since he was exposed but...everyone else is fine? KD was breathing all over everyone in that Wizards game. Makes zero sense.

I'm fine with KD getting rest. I'm just worried that we may dig ourselves into a hole.


yeah with a shortened season getting 5-6 games under.500 before we mesh may hurt seeding. although most of the best teams in the division arent doing all that hot either. the heat are 3-3. the bucks are 4-3, toronto is 1-5. even atlanta has lost 3 of the last 4 games. so we'll see. it would be nice to go 3-1 behind a surge from our role guys and Kyrie going HAM
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#15 » by CalamityX12 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 4:34 pm

Agreed with all, the contact tracing procedure here is a joke and nothing more than a PR stunt. We are forced to have 4 losses rather than postpone the games for league wide safety.

Baseball did it.... this is beyond stupid for today's pandemic
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#16 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jan 5, 2021 5:26 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:Agreed with all, the contact tracing procedure here is a joke and nothing more than a PR stunt. We are forced to have 4 losses rather than postpone the games for league wide safety.

Baseball did it.... this is beyond stupid for today's pandemic


they're gonna do us like how the NFL did certain teams this year instead of postponing games. They sent the Denver Broncos out onto the field without a Quarterback.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#17 » by CalamityX12 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 5:35 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
CalamityX12 wrote:Agreed with all, the contact tracing procedure here is a joke and nothing more than a PR stunt. We are forced to have 4 losses rather than postpone the games for league wide safety.

Baseball did it.... this is beyond stupid for today's pandemic


they're gonna do us like how the NFL did certain teams this year instead of postponing games. They sent the Denver Broncos out onto the field without a Quarterback.

In a shorten season, every game counts. Now we did ourselves no favors with current record but falling further early could be detrimental.

Why winning the must wins and should wins are imperative.

But alas, I wish they would give more clarity to the situation
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#18 » by MGrand15 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 6:33 pm

Prokorov wrote:Anyhow, a rest for KD after his first 2 weeks back isnt the worst thing in the world. I also like that it forces bench and role guys who have sucked to step up. Maybe if they stink all 4 games that gets marks making some calls and expediting a deal or the step up and one KD comes back is lights out.

But if it was going to be a star, having it be KD is probably the best outcome


Yeah, honestly, I don't mind it much since it's KD. We were starting to rely on him too much and KD is such a baller that he's always ready to step up to the plate.

Last 2 games: 37 MPG

That's just too high. He's in there mixing it up inside hard for rebounds. He's trying to baptize centers and put them on posters. He went to the FT line 12 times last game.

It feels like he's been our best scorer, playmaker, and defender - and he's probably hustling the most. If Nash isn't willing to hold him back - this might work.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#19 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jan 5, 2021 7:31 pm

MGrand15 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:Anyhow, a rest for KD after his first 2 weeks back isnt the worst thing in the world. I also like that it forces bench and role guys who have sucked to step up. Maybe if they stink all 4 games that gets marks making some calls and expediting a deal or the step up and one KD comes back is lights out.

But if it was going to be a star, having it be KD is probably the best outcome


Yeah, honestly, I don't mind it much since it's KD. We were starting to rely on him too much and KD is such a baller that he's always ready to step up to the plate.

Last 2 games: 37 MPG

That's just too high. He's in there mixing it up inside hard for rebounds. He's trying to baptize centers and put them on posters. He went to the FT line 12 times last game.

It feels like he's been our best scorer, playmaker, and defender - and he's probably hustling the most. If Nash isn't willing to hold him back - this might work.


We need to start gang rebounding instead of having guys leak out.
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Re: Back away from the ledge.... 

Post#20 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 5, 2021 7:35 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:Anyhow, a rest for KD after his first 2 weeks back isnt the worst thing in the world. I also like that it forces bench and role guys who have sucked to step up. Maybe if they stink all 4 games that gets marks making some calls and expediting a deal or the step up and one KD comes back is lights out.

But if it was going to be a star, having it be KD is probably the best outcome


Yeah, honestly, I don't mind it much since it's KD. We were starting to rely on him too much and KD is such a baller that he's always ready to step up to the plate.

Last 2 games: 37 MPG

That's just too high. He's in there mixing it up inside hard for rebounds. He's trying to baptize centers and put them on posters. He went to the FT line 12 times last game.

It feels like he's been our best scorer, playmaker, and defender - and he's probably hustling the most. If Nash isn't willing to hold him back - this might work.


We need to start gang rebounding instead of having guys leak out.


I think the biggest issue with rebounding is that we are being broken down and forced to help/switch so much (not on screens but on guys being beat or out of posiiton). IF DJ/Allen are at the top of the key and Kyrie is on thomas bryant then gang rebounding goes out the window. Kyrie having 8-9 rebounds itself is a testament to that being the case

i think communication on D and not overhelping will help rebounding too

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