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GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES

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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#181 » by ecuhus1981 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 10:57 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:The offense just sucks. I think theres no denying it.

The fact that KD/Kyrie are both putting up MVP type numbers and were still losing is the problem.

I don't know what MDA is doing. Why isn't he just running the offense and play calling?

This is true, and it's not just surface level. Both KD and Kyrie are playing at an All-NBA 1st Team level in terms of win shares per 48, PER, on/off box score. It's very rare that you see two players that strong, on a team that is just not yielding wins at a consistent level. The Clippers are in a similar boat, but neither of their Big Two are playing at their typical level. Other teams have had stars miss time as well, but we are not responding to the absences as well as other teams.

It just speaks to the amount of losing basketball going on around Ky and Kev. Not just on the court, but from the coach as well. I understand letting role players find their groove with the new superstars, but we've crossed the line where they are burning bad habits into memory, and still being rewarding with PT. Nash needs to expect better from himself and his teacher's pets.
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GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#182 » by Paradise » Sat Jan 9, 2021 11:06 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:The offense just sucks. I think theres no denying it.

The fact that KD/Kyrie are both putting up MVP type numbers and were still losing is the problem.

I don't know what MDA is doing. Why isn't he just running the offense and play calling?

Nash still makes the final calls. I see alot of similar sets from previous years and plenty ball movement but I don’t see any real direction or quality substitution rotations. That’s not up to D’antoni, Udoka, JV. I’m pretty sure all three would’ve made better decisions in certain games this season without stars.

It’s a little alarming his lack of experience or feel for the game is exposed when we aren’t suiting up Kyrie, Dinwiddie or KD. We could’ve lost them regardless to Covid protocols. So, there is little room for error on his part and I just think he’s a little too soft to actually tell DeAndre he will not play any minutes if he won’t defend or catch a pass.

He seems to be too soft to call a proper timeout and yell at his team every now and then to let them know how pathetic they look.

He’s got time to fix that but right now, Nash is on pace to lose the locker room if he can’t coach without KD and Kyrie all the time. They both want to take pride in knowing Caris, Joe, JA can go out and ball without them and win games. His in-game adjustment skills are pure trash at the moment but I know he’s capable of better.

Not sure he has the balls to really stand on a contender and bench money makers or make actually good ATOs without stars or even with them.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#183 » by MGrand15 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 11:10 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:The offense just sucks. I think theres no denying it.

The fact that KD/Kyrie are both putting up MVP type numbers and were still losing is the problem.

I don't know what MDA is doing. Why isn't he just running the offense and play calling?


There's no denying it? What are you watching? Our offense is elite. We've only struggled when Kyrie and KD are out. And even then, the offense STILL doesn't suck. We just dropped 122 on Philly - a top defensive team.

MDA is literally the one running the offense and handling the play calling.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#184 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sat Jan 9, 2021 11:34 pm

MGrand15 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:The offense just sucks. I think theres no denying it.

The fact that KD/Kyrie are both putting up MVP type numbers and were still losing is the problem.

I don't know what MDA is doing. Why isn't he just running the offense and play calling?


There's no denying it? What are you watching? Our offense is elite. We've only struggled when Kyrie and KD are out. And even then, the offense STILL doesn't suck. We just dropped 122 on Philly - a top defensive team.

MDA is literally the one running the offense and handling the play calling.


Offense is not elite.

We have no offensive plays. All our offense is iso KD, iso Kyrie and iso Caris.

Not enough ball movement and nobody knows where they are supposed to be.

We are averaging an insane amount of turnovers which have cost us several games. If we just had come cohesion to the offense it would be far more effective.

And we lost the Hornets, Wizards and Hawks with KD & Kyrie.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#185 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:52 am

The Nets are the 9th rated offense in the league, and 3rd in scoring.

In our 5 wins, 4 of them were blowouts. In our 5 losses, outside of the Hawks game, we've lost by 5 points or less

The offense is not the problem. Turnovers, poor defensive rebounding and the lack of availability from our two stars is the reason why we are off to a slow 5-5 start. We are coming off of two huge wins vs quality opponents. We have the 3rd rated defense in the league.

All signs point to the Nets being a top 5 team once we really get into the swing of things. As long as we maintain health to our core players, we will be fine.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#186 » by gigantes » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:24 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:...It just speaks to the amount of losing basketball going on around Ky and Kev. Not just on the court, but from the coach as well. I understand letting role players find their groove with the new superstars, but we've crossed the line where they are burning bad habits into memory, and still being rewarding with PT. Nash needs to expect better from himself and his teacher's pets.

As much as I agree with you most of the time, I must vociferously disagree with you in this case.

My gosh, how do you even reach this point after just a handful of games. Like........... what?!

Since this is all just opinion an attitude, though, let me give you my fundamental take on the matter:

The Nets, without K&K, are a completely mediocre team. That's who they are. They were very much that last season, they very much are when you look at their drafted talent pool, and it's a massive credit to Sean Marks that he was able to produce this level of output from an otherwise-poor team in real-world terms.

But that is who we are. We are a completely mediocre team (at best) when you take away K&K.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#187 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:14 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:The Nets are the 9th rated offense in the league, and 3rd in scoring.

In our 5 wins, 4 of them were blowouts. In our 5 losses, outside of the Hawks game, we've lost by 5 points or less

The offense is not the problem. Turnovers, poor defensive rebounding and the lack of availability from our two stars is the reason why we are off to a slow 5-5 start. We are coming off of two huge wins vs quality opponents. We have the 3rd rated defense in the league.

All signs point to the Nets being a top 5 team once we really get into the swing of things. As long as we maintain health to our core players, we will be fine.


Looking at offensive rating hides our problems.

Yes we score a lot of points. We also give up an insane amount of turnovers and second chance points which leads to extra possessions for our opponents.

And our lack of play calling becomes more apparent in the last 2-3 minutes where we have no idea what were doing and can't close games.

You keep acting like losing by "5 points or less" to the Hawks, Grizzlies, or Wizards Hornets is a good thing.

Its an embarrassment. Were a Championship contender. We should be blowing all of these teams out.

The real problem is the team has no idea what its doing. Nash has to figure it out.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#188 » by Minnamaker » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:41 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
I don't know what MDA is doing. Why isn't he just running the offense and play calling?


Assuming MDA is not running the offense, what else would you expect, if he takes over?

I think we see big similarities to the Houston system, just at a slower pace. The rockets system was basically iso ball and pick and rolls. Iso drives, iso threes and pick and rolls with drives to the basket to score or to pass to the three in the corner. That's basically it. Imo too simple to ever win a title against good defenses.

The nets offense is quite similar so far. Kd, Ky and levert with iso ball or pick and rolls. The other player just don't know were to stand and (other than Harris) are too inconsistant in threes to give kd and Ky the open lanes they would need.

I love Nash as a person and a former player, but I have doubts about his coaching abilities. He played in his prime under d'antoni and has him as his assistant. Looks like he learned and wants to learn from him. D'antonis system looks great on paper as his player put up tons of stats,but it has shown for years that it doesn't work in the playoffs. Hopefully I'm wrong though.

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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#189 » by ecuhus1981 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:42 pm

gigantes wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:...It just speaks to the amount of losing basketball going on around Ky and Kev. Not just on the court, but from the coach as well. I understand letting role players find their groove with the new superstars, but we've crossed the line where they are burning bad habits into memory, and still being rewarding with PT. Nash needs to expect better from himself and his teacher's pets.

As much as I agree with you most of the time, I must vociferously disagree with you in this case.

My gosh, how do you even reach this point after just a handful of games. Like........... what?!

Since this is all just opinion an attitude, though, let me give you my fundamental take on the matter:

The Nets, without K&K, are a completely mediocre team. That's who they are. They were very much that last season, they very much are when you look at their drafted talent pool, and it's a massive credit to Sean Marks that he was able to produce this level of output from an otherwise-poor team in real-world terms.

But that is who we are. We are a completely mediocre team (at best) when you take away K&K.

I appreciate the feedback, friend. You're right, I am levying some d@mning criticism after merely a handful of games. It's a tough balance to strike, because this season is going to fly by in a heartbeat relative to other seasons.

I'll offer one thought in my favor: according to deep stats, we are in fact NOT a mediocre team without Ky and Kev. We would be fine if that were the case, and I would be fine with it. The problem I'm calling out is that, in this small sample size, we're playing waaaay wise than the Bubble Nets. Hollinger and others said that the absence of Temple and Nwaba would impact our bench more than were prepared to absorb, and they were right. Especially without Spencer, our supporting cast is playing like the worst 6 through 15 in the league.

Again, it's early. I won't overreact, but it's about time for Nash to treat our like it exists. Otherwise, too much of this season will pass, and our losing habits will be too entrenched to correct.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#190 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:29 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:The Nets are the 9th rated offense in the league, and 3rd in scoring.

In our 5 wins, 4 of them were blowouts. In our 5 losses, outside of the Hawks game, we've lost by 5 points or less

The offense is not the problem. Turnovers, poor defensive rebounding and the lack of availability from our two stars is the reason why we are off to a slow 5-5 start. We are coming off of two huge wins vs quality opponents. We have the 3rd rated defense in the league.

All signs point to the Nets being a top 5 team once we really get into the swing of things. As long as we maintain health to our core players, we will be fine.


Looking at offensive rating hides our problems.

Yes we score a lot of points. We also give up an insane amount of turnovers and second chance points which leads to extra possessions for our opponents.

And our lack of play calling becomes more apparent in the last 2-3 minutes where we have no idea what were doing and can't close games.

You keep acting like losing by "5 points or less" to the Hawks, Grizzlies, or Wizards Hornets is a good thing.

Its an embarrassment. Were a Championship contender. We should be blowing all of these teams out.

The real problem is the team has no idea what its doing. Nash has to figure it out.


It's been 10 games, we lost Spencer and KD and Kyrie's availability has been all over the place. Calm down.

And we are blowing teams out. Look at our point differential.

You weren't saying any of this when we blew out both Utah and Philly. I understand, I want to be 10-0 too but **** happens.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Grizzlies - Friday, 01/8/21 | 8:00pm | YES 

Post#191 » by gigantes » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:15 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
gigantes wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:...It just speaks to the amount of losing basketball going on around Ky and Kev. Not just on the court, but from the coach as well. I understand letting role players find their groove with the new superstars, but we've crossed the line where they are burning bad habits into memory, and still being rewarding with PT. Nash needs to expect better from himself and his teacher's pets.

As much as I agree with you most of the time, I must vociferously disagree with you in this case.

My gosh, how do you even reach this point after just a handful of games. Like........... what?!

Since this is all just opinion an attitude, though, let me give you my fundamental take on the matter:

The Nets, without K&K, are a completely mediocre team. That's who they are. They were very much that last season, they very much are when you look at their drafted talent pool, and it's a massive credit to Sean Marks that he was able to produce this level of output from an otherwise-poor team in real-world terms.

But that is who we are. We are a completely mediocre team (at best) when you take away K&K.

I appreciate the feedback, friend. You're right, I am levying some d@mning criticism after merely a handful of games. It's a tough balance to strike, because this season is going to fly by in a heartbeat relative to other seasons.

I'll offer one thought in my favor: according to deep stats, we are in fact NOT a mediocre team without Ky and Kev. We would be fine if that were the case, and I would be fine with it. The problem I'm calling out is that, in this small sample size, we're playing waaaay wise than the Bubble Nets. Hollinger and others said that the absence of Temple and Nwaba would impact our bench more than were prepared to absorb, and they were right. Especially without Spencer, our supporting cast is playing like the worst 6 through 15 in the league.

Again, it's early. I won't overreact, but it's about time for Nash to treat our like it exists. Otherwise, too much of this season will pass, and our losing habits will be too entrenched to correct.

Thanks for the response!

I think having cooled down a bit, I reluctantly agree that there really is a case for Nash doing a substandard job so far, for example with his rotations, timeouts, and play-calling. It's hard for me to fully understand, given his incredible coaching staff, but hopefully this is relatively expected stuff given his sheer inexperience in these matters.

Given how hard these guys work, and their standards of accountability, I'm not sure I'm worried yet about bad habits at risk of getting entrenched. Right now it seems like the main issue is a myriad of mistakes on D, plus struggling to get used to each other, leading to foolish turnovers and such.

I was also reading a rather amazing stat that had us 4-0 against the top teams we faced, and 1-6 against the rest, all sub .500 teams. I'm not sure what the hell to make out of that one... oO

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