GT: Nets @ Pistons - 02/09/21 - 7:30pm

[Openheimer]

I have never seen a Nets team THIS bad defensively. NEVER.

Even our trash teams over the years would play WAY harder/better.

We were struggling defensively before the Harden trade but now it's a new level of trash.

Harden/Kyrie are incredible offensive weapons but they are NOT consistent defenders. They just aren't. Nothing against them.

The only way this type of roster works is if you have a BEAST center that can play defense at a good level(Allen, Capela, Gobert, etc.)

This current team as constructed would struggle to be a playoffs team without KD. KD is our best player by far. Difference between true contender and maybe playoffs team.

It's a shame we lost the Fro because he fits this current roster perfectly. I hope eventually Claxton can give us something positive but not holding my breath either. Marks WILL have to make moves, no doubt about this roster is unbalanced and booty on D.

DJ is and has been washed for years. He is who he is. I hope we can hit the lottery in the buyout market because things aren't looking great for this roster.

I thought harden was a bad off the ball defender untill I saw Kyrie. He is even worse

[DarkXaero]

Nash essentially called out the team in post match comments, saying that we need to decide what kind of team we want to be, and basically saying that we don't play with pride.

The players have been playing like trash but the coaching hasn't been good either. Nash should also look in the mirror.

Pretty sure Nash isn't responsible for players' effort on the floor.

[zimpy27]

Harden was not worth what we gave up for him. I thought he was an offensive beast who could put up close to 40 every night.

He hasn't even been close to that. Why was it worth tearing our team apart for him? Make the case.

A lot of people predicted that you wouldn't get good value from Harden and Kyrie because of the redundancy of their skills, plus the assets lost to make it happen wouldn't be worth it.

In any case, you can complain about the decision but the decision has been made and it can't be undone, you can only work on improving it.

This team will get better but it will take a lot of thought from the coaches to develop a cohesive gameplan that brings the most out of these players on both sides and it may require bringing in other players for the gameplan to work. Durant is clearly a huge difference-maker for this team now, perhaps some work on giving him a role that reduces his injury chance is also worth looking at.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Harden was not worth what we gave up for him. I thought he was an offensive beast who could put up close to 40 every night.

He hasn't even been close to that. Why was it worth tearing our team apart for him? Make the case.

A lot of people predicted that you wouldn't get good value from Harden and Kyrie because of the redundancy of their skills, plus the assets lost to make it happen wouldn't be worth it.

In any case, you can complain about the decision but the decision has been made and it can't be undone, you can only work on improving it.

This team will get better but it will take a lot of thought from the coaches to develop a cohesive gameplan that brings the most out of these players on both sides and it may require bringing in other players for the gameplan to work. Durant is clearly a huge difference-maker for this team now, perhaps some work on giving him a role that reduces his injury chance is also worth looking at.

I mean thats not the case at all.

Its not about the redundancy of Harden/Kyrie. Harden is not playing at an MVP level.

There are plenty of shots to go around with KD out. Instead he seems to be deferring to TLC and Jeff Green.

Its still about getting the right role players around them.

[zimpy27]

Harden was not worth what we gave up for him. I thought he was an offensive beast who could put up close to 40 every night.

He hasn't even been close to that. Why was it worth tearing our team apart for him? Make the case.

A lot of people predicted that you wouldn't get good value from Harden and Kyrie because of the redundancy of their skills, plus the assets lost to make it happen wouldn't be worth it.

In any case, you can complain about the decision but the decision has been made and it can't be undone, you can only work on improving it.

This team will get better but it will take a lot of thought from the coaches to develop a cohesive gameplan that brings the most out of these players on both sides and it may require bringing in other players for the gameplan to work. Durant is clearly a huge difference-maker for this team now, perhaps some work on giving him a role that reduces his injury chance is also worth looking at.

I mean thats not the case at all.

Its not about the redundancy of Harden/Kyrie. Harden is not playing at an MVP level.

There are plenty of shots to go around with KD out. Instead he seems to be deferring to TLC and Jeff Green.

Its still about getting the right role players around them.

I'm not saying the Nets are worse for them being together but just that you aren't getting a complete addition of one to the other. Instead of 1+1=2, it's 1+1=1.5, it's still better than just 1 and I would never say Kyrie and Harden is worse than one of either. I'm just saying you aren't adding Rockets Harden stats to Nets Irving stats, you are getting some value loss in the redundancy of their games.

Harden is playing very well, not MVP but does he have to be MVP for the team to perform as expected?

[Prokorov]

Nash essentially called out the team in post match comments, saying that we need to decide what kind of team we want to be, and basically saying that we don't play with pride.

The players have been playing like trash but the coaching hasn't been good either. Nash should also look in the mirror.

Pretty sure Nash isn't responsible for players' effort on the floor.

He absolutely is. he is the most responsible.

-if you cant motivate your team quit coaching.
-if guys arent playing with effort call a time out
-play the energy guys on your team to find a spark instead of just riding your starters for 40 minutes

[Prokorov]

A lot of people predicted that you wouldn't get good value from Harden and Kyrie because of the redundancy of their skills, plus the assets lost to make it happen wouldn't be worth it.

In any case, you can complain about the decision but the decision has been made and it can't be undone, you can only work on improving it.

This team will get better but it will take a lot of thought from the coaches to develop a cohesive gameplan that brings the most out of these players on both sides and it may require bringing in other players for the gameplan to work. Durant is clearly a huge difference-maker for this team now, perhaps some work on giving him a role that reduces his injury chance is also worth looking at.

I mean thats not the case at all.

Its not about the redundancy of Harden/Kyrie. Harden is not playing at an MVP level.

There are plenty of shots to go around with KD out. Instead he seems to be deferring to TLC and Jeff Green.

Its still about getting the right role players around them.

I'm not saying the Nets are worse for them being together but just that you aren't getting a complete addition of one to the other. Instead of 1+1=2, it's 1+1=1.5, it's still better than just 1 and I would never say Kyrie and Harden is worse than one of either. I'm just saying you aren't adding Rockets Harden stats to Nets Irving stats, you are getting some value loss in the redundancy of their games.

Harden is playing very well, not MVP but does he have to be MVP for the team to perform as expected?

this is flat out wrong. Hardens usage is actually up with the Nets. Kyrie/Harden have plenty of shots. there is no overlap. kyrie is an elite off ball SG. Harden is an elite onball combo gaurd. both are getting a ton of usage.

awful coaching. period.

[Prokorov]

I think we're getting really close to the point where the team has to look into cutting some of the non-guaranteed guys and trading Joe Harris + Dinwiddie for multiple defensive complimentary pieces. The rotation needs a rehaul. The effort on defense + the boards is awful but at some point, that's just who we are. Can't expect things to magically turn things around. The defense has been a disaster.

With KD, we're still incredibly dangerous but this stuff just isn't sustainable. It's playing with fire to even go into the post season with this roster.

I think that has to be the move. Harris/Dinwiddie are our only real assets.

We have to pray Shamet can be our shooter once Harris leaves.

Need a couple of killers on defense who let the Big 3 carry the offense night to night.

Nash will NOT play defenders. if we bring in defenders shamet and TLC will just move into harris role. Nash barely plays brown and he is yet to play shumpert. he goes 30+ minutes small with no shot blocker on the floor.

he doesnt care about effort or defense. we have some roster issues, but its compounded by nash having 0 clue how to gameplan, how to adjust, how to use timeouts, and an unwillingness to sacragice offense for D in any lineup

[Prokorov]

Anyone else concerned about Kyrie’s finger?

no.

its been a couple days. he will be fine in a week.

[MrDollarBills]

The players have been playing like trash but the coaching hasn't been good either. Nash should also look in the mirror.

Pretty sure Nash isn't responsible for players' effort on the floor.

He absolutely is. he is the most responsible.

-if you cant motivate your team quit coaching.
-if guys arent playing with effort call a time out
-play the energy guys on your team to find a spark instead of just riding your starters for 40 minutes

Can you name the energy guys on this team?

I am not going to debate your first two points. I think you are right to feel that way since Nash is failing. But what energy guys do we have?

[zimpy27]

I mean thats not the case at all.

Its not about the redundancy of Harden/Kyrie. Harden is not playing at an MVP level.

There are plenty of shots to go around with KD out. Instead he seems to be deferring to TLC and Jeff Green.

Its still about getting the right role players around them.

I'm not saying the Nets are worse for them being together but just that you aren't getting a complete addition of one to the other. Instead of 1+1=2, it's 1+1=1.5, it's still better than just 1 and I would never say Kyrie and Harden is worse than one of either. I'm just saying you aren't adding Rockets Harden stats to Nets Irving stats, you are getting some value loss in the redundancy of their games.

Harden is playing very well, not MVP but does he have to be MVP for the team to perform as expected?

this is flat out wrong. Hardens usage is actually up with the Nets. Kyrie/Harden have plenty of shots. there is no overlap. kyrie is an elite off ball SG. Harden is an elite onball combo gaurd. both are getting a ton of usage.

awful coaching. period.

If it were awful coaching then how do you propose you change it?

Durant brought in Nash and Kyrie clarified that Nash and the players are working together to "coach each other" and that they love it this way.

[Prokorov]

Harden trade looks like a mistake, not gonna lie.

This isn't Houston James Harden, this is a slightly better Dinwiddie. Good player...not worth Allen, Prince, and all those draft picks. We have no semblance of a defense and a guy who's supposed to average 30 in his sleep deferring to the likes of TLC and Green in 4th quarters.

I think that's a drastic overreaction.

For as bad as we are now, I was pretty sure we couldn't be a true contender once Dinwiddie went down. None of the guys we gave up amount to the potential of what we can do with Harden on the team.

We don't need star talent, but we do need players who are good enough to fill particular roles on this team that simply aren't being filled right now.

Modern great teams have 3&D role-playing wings and athletic role-playing big men. My first thought is to say that we don't have anyone in either department. Those are really important roles that must be filled if you want to deter other teams from scoring and punish teams who over-help/double when one of the stars attacks the basket.

We're going to keep struggling until these roles are filled with quality players. I'm not sure if Marks believed that our star power would make our need for such players unnecessary, but to me it's been absolutely glaring over the past two seasons that these spots have to be filled.

IMO, this is Marks truly first sizable miss as a GM. A lot of us were calling for these roles to be filled in the offseason. For some reason, he was content with adding more guards to the roster than filling out the team with actual depth spread throughout the team.

We dont need 3 & D players. we just need D players. you can put brown and Shumpert next to the big three, still score 110 a game, and play better then average defense. But nash thinks you need to have 5 elite shooters at all time and panics anytime we have 1 guy who isnt a shooter on the floor.

we have three gys who can get their shot at will with or without spacing at anytime. its not a 1 star system that relies on guys hitting open shots for space or to score.

Start brown and shumpert or one of them with DJ and first sub is the one sitting. Harris is great we all love him but he needs to back to a bench role. we dont need his shooting as much as we do defense and energy.

TLC doesnt need to be in the rotation anymore either.

[Prokorov]

HOU was always built around Harden and his deficiencies. Sure, he gave you a lot but in the areas where he didn't excel or simply couldn't do more, Morey surrounded him with quality, high IQ players.

A lot of people just look at "Harden + trash = automatic playoff bid" but it was really Harden + 3&D players at 2-4 + rim-running center for the majority of his time in HOU.

Now, it's Harden + bad players and we're starting to see what it looks like when you don't have players who complement his style well and are questionable NBA-level players.

Harden was still an offensive monster on those teams. Even last year.

I wouldn't care about the defensive lapses as much if he was doing what he used to do.

Hes not even close to that player right now.

Yes, he was still a monster because he was surrounded by the right pieces. They covered his weak spots and he covered theirs.

Stylistically, Harden isn't doing much different from what he was doing in HOU. There's just a massive difference between passing to Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker versus TLC and Reggie Perry.

The threat of making 3s off of Harden penetration made it difficult for teams to double Harden, but if you don't double him, he'll go to work on you 1-on-1. Right now, no one is afraid of TLC and other bench players making 3s at a high clip like Gordon or Tucker. The defense just sags off of Harden and clogs the paint. And because Harden was basically a feast or famine 3pt shot-& layup player, you're getting a lot of low quality 3s because the paint is blocked off.

If the paint opens up, he can feast more. The paint will remain closed as long as he's passing to borderline NBA players.

i dont think thats true at all. they arent sagging off of harden. he is scoring at a pretty efficient clip and our offense is cooking. problem is we constantly have to play offense for 94 feet because the other team scored. and are constantly giving up momentum killing layups/second chance points/or easy fast breaks off turnovers. and we do nothing to attempt to combat any of those things.

Like if we forced some stops, harden can get early offense. we almost NEVER get that. its actually quite amazing we score as much and as efficiently as we do with it almost all coming in the half court.

[Prokorov]

Nash essentially called out the team in post match comments, saying that we need to decide what kind of team we want to be, and basically saying that we don't play with pride.

Steve Nash can go F himself.

play with pride? how about instead of throwing the team under the bus post game you actually inspire them. you actually game plan. you actually make an adjustment? you actually run out defensive heavy lineups for a spark. you actually get in to the refs instead of your players getting Ts.... like show them you have their back in any way shape or form.

players obviously need to step it up. but this a-hole needs to look in the mirror himself

[Prokorov]

Pretty sure Nash isn't responsible for players' effort on the floor.

He absolutely is. he is the most responsible.

-if you cant motivate your team quit coaching.
-if guys arent playing with effort call a time out
-play the energy guys on your team to find a spark instead of just riding your starters for 40 minutes

Can you name the energy guys on this team?

I am not going to debate your first two points. I think you are right to feel that way since Nash is failing. But what energy guys do we have?

Brown, Shumpert, Chiozza... Pelle looks like he may be one.

[Prokorov]

I'm not saying the Nets are worse for them being together but just that you aren't getting a complete addition of one to the other. Instead of 1+1=2, it's 1+1=1.5, it's still better than just 1 and I would never say Kyrie and Harden is worse than one of either. I'm just saying you aren't adding Rockets Harden stats to Nets Irving stats, you are getting some value loss in the redundancy of their games.

Harden is playing very well, not MVP but does he have to be MVP for the team to perform as expected?

this is flat out wrong. Hardens usage is actually up with the Nets. Kyrie/Harden have plenty of shots. there is no overlap. kyrie is an elite off ball SG. Harden is an elite onball combo gaurd. both are getting a ton of usage.

awful coaching. period.

If it were awful coaching then how do you propose you change it?

Durant brought in Nash and Kyrie clarified that Nash and the players are working together to "coach each other" and that they love it this way.

You fire Nash.

if the players dont like it, then that should be a wake up call for them. you can still replace nash with a star friendly coach who isnt a complete moron. Or fire D'antoni to send a message to nash

[MrDollarBills]

I think we're getting really close to the point where the team has to look into cutting some of the non-guaranteed guys and trading Joe Harris + Dinwiddie for multiple defensive complimentary pieces. The rotation needs a rehaul. The effort on defense + the boards is awful but at some point, that's just who we are. Can't expect things to magically turn things around. The defense has been a disaster.

With KD, we're still incredibly dangerous but this stuff just isn't sustainable. It's playing with fire to even go into the post season with this roster.

I think that has to be the move. Harris/Dinwiddie are our only real assets.

We have to pray Shamet can be our shooter once Harris leaves.

Need a couple of killers on defense who let the Big 3 carry the offense night to night.

Nash will NOT play defenders. if we bring in defenders shamet and TLC will just move into harris role. Nash barely plays brown and he is yet to play shumpert. he goes 30+ minutes small with no shot blocker on the floor.

he doesnt care about effort or defense. we have some roster issues, but its compounded by nash having 0 clue how to gameplan, how to adjust, how to use timeouts, and an unwillingness to sacragice offense for D in any lineup

Some roster issues?

We have a serious problem at center. Jordan is clearly not better than Allen, as you have previously stated. We are worse with him starting. He is lazy and doesn't even rotate, I lost count of how many times he has failed to contest a shot at the rim.

Pelle is not an NBA player. We have zero interior defense. Sean Marks has totally botched this entire situation.

Nash played Bruce Brown, arguably our best defensive player, 25 mins tonight and he was -4. When you don't have interior defense and your starting backcourt allows a lay up drill, it doesn't really matter what guys like Brown do. We are **** ed.

Outside of Brown, who else is a good defender on this roster? KD yeah, everyone else? pfft. TLC is a G leaguer. Shamet has basically played himself out of the league at this point.

This team's bench tonight was Bruce Brown, Landry Shamet, TLC, Norvell Pelle, Chris Chiozza, Tyler Johnson, and Noah Vonleh.

Bruce Brown is a good player, but not that good. The rest of these guy aren't NBA players. How on earth are you focused on Nash when Marks has this team being anchored by the Long Island Nets???

I think the blame goes all around, but this roster make up is atrocious and Marks has finally outsmarted himself. He has Joe Tsai paying luxury tax for KD/Kyrie/Harden and a pack of scrubs. we're cooked.

[Openheimer]

Need to get PJ Tucker and McGee or Hassan Whiteside

[NyCeEvO]

Harden trade looks like a mistake, not gonna lie.

This isn't Houston James Harden, this is a slightly better Dinwiddie. Good player...not worth Allen, Prince, and all those draft picks. We have no semblance of a defense and a guy who's supposed to average 30 in his sleep deferring to the likes of TLC and Green in 4th quarters.

I think that's a drastic overreaction.

For as bad as we are now, I was pretty sure we couldn't be a true contender once Dinwiddie went down. None of the guys we gave up amount to the potential of what we can do with Harden on the team.

We don't need star talent, but we do need players who are good enough to fill particular roles on this team that simply aren't being filled right now.

Modern great teams have 3&D role-playing wings and athletic role-playing big men. My first thought is to say that we don't have anyone in either department. Those are really important roles that must be filled if you want to deter other teams from scoring and punish teams who over-help/double when one of the stars attacks the basket.

We're going to keep struggling until these roles are filled with quality players. I'm not sure if Marks believed that our star power would make our need for such players unnecessary, but to me it's been absolutely glaring over the past two seasons that these spots have to be filled.

IMO, this is Marks truly first sizable miss as a GM. A lot of us were calling for these roles to be filled in the offseason. For some reason, he was content with adding more guards to the roster than filling out the team with actual depth spread throughout the team.

We dont need 3 & D players. we just need D players. you can put brown and Shumpert next to the big three, still score 110 a game, and play better then average defense. But nash thinks you need to have 5 elite shooters at all time and panics anytime we have 1 guy who isnt a shooter on the floor.

we have three gys who can get their shot at will with or without spacing at anytime. its not a 1 star system that relies on guys hitting open shots for space or to score.

Start brown and shumpert or one of them with DJ and first sub is the one sitting. Harris is great we all love him but he needs to back to a bench role. we dont need his shooting as much as we do defense and energy.

TLC doesnt need to be in the rotation anymore either.

You’ll benefit from 3&D guys when 1 or 2 go of the stars go to the bench though.

I honestly wonder if MDA is having too much of an influence on Nash. Having 5 shooters and no defense has MDA written all over it.

[Prokorov]

Some roster issues?

We have a serious problem at center. Jordan is clearly not better than Allen, as you have previously stated. We are worse with him starting. He is lazy and doesn't even rotate, I lost count of how many times he has failed to contest a shot at the rim.

Pelle is not an NBA player. We have zero interior defense. Sean Marks has totally botched this entire situation. [/quote]

Our biggest issue at center is our coach plays a 6'8" forward for 30+ minutes there. Jordan is a role guy. Allen is better. But DJ hasnt been even close to our problem defensively. We are better with him ON BOTH ENDS since the harden trade and he has been a positive +/- while nash sits him for green for 15 minute stretches in close losses.

And again, we need C help. but you dont need wilt or kareem to find a way to overcome mason plumlee. the pistons have center issues.

Nash played Bruce Brown, arguably our best defensive player, 25 mins tonight and he was -4. When you don't have interior defense and your starting backcourt allows a lay up drill, it doesn't really matter what guys like Brown do. We are **** ed.

We were much better with brown on the floor. we gave up 40 first quarter points. nash didnt go to brown until the second quarter. every single run we made, brown was a part of getting stops/rebounds/diving on the floor.

Outside of Brown, who else is a good defender on this roster? KD yeah, everyone else? pfft. TLC is a G leaguer. Shamet has basically played himself out of the league at this point.

Shumpert.

Bruce Brown is a good player, but not that good. The rest of these guy aren't NBA players. How on earth are you focused on Nash when Marks has this team being anchored by the Long Island Nets???

We have more talent then 99.9% of the league. no one has 12 good rotational players. Durant, Irving, Harden, Harris, DJ, Shamet, Brown, Green are 8 solid legit NBA rotation players which includes 3 top 10 players.

Also, you dont need the 1996 bulls to get a spark of energy. you dont need to play energy guys 20 mintues to get that spark. good coaches like pop will run out their 11th-15th men to get energy while sending a message to the starters all at once, change momentum, then get their starters back in having changed the flow of the game. nash just sits there with his timeouts riding starters 35+ minutes

I think the blame goes all around, but this roster make up is atrocious and Marks has finally outsmarted himself. He has Joe Tsai paying luxury tax for KD/Kyrie/Harden and a pack of scrubs. we're cooked.

The roster makeup is absolutely elite. We need 1 more rotational center. thats a big glaring thing right now, but marks needs some time to work trades or wait for someone like mcgee to get bought out. but i mean, we have the super elite players. our bench unit features james harden, arguably the best offensive player of the past 30 years. we have shooters. we have defenders. we have ball handlers. all we really like is another 2-way role guy and backup big.

but having those players doesnt matter if nash wont play them. it wont matter if nash just goes small and plays 5 out.

anyone who thinks this team isnt 20-5 with a halfway decent coach is out of their minds. Nash is literally coaching us to lose. he is playing to every single weakness and ignoring every single strength.

MDB... we are losing to teams that not only have no center, not only have no depth, but their starters are as bad as the scrubby d-leaguers you mention. we are losing to the effing pistons!

you think we have depth issues? you think we have roster construction issues?

DJ stinks... they start plumlee.
We start harris, they start ellington
we start Harden/Kyrie their back court is delon freaking wright and holiday

honestly we should beat the pistons even if all 3 of our stars sat.