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I'm going with Claxton because I love his length and athleticism.

I think he's going to be a better scorer, defender and shot blocker than Jarrett.

MAYBE a better rebounder too as his body matures and he gets stronger.

I know it sounds like homerism, but I'm sincerely trying not to be a homer. Just calling it like I see it.

Jarrett is better NOW, no doubt, but in two years I believe Claxton will be the better Center.

How bout you?

Other than their body types they're pretty different players. The fro was a traditional old school center and Claxton isn't.

Jarrett Allen and I'll tell you why.

First off full discloser, I am a dyed in the wool Jarrett Allen fan and unless he like murders a pack of cub scouts I always will be.

Big Jay has a higher BBIQ. He is a better rebounder and shot blocker as well.

Jay has gone toe to toe and outplayed some of the best bigs in the league.

They have a one year difference in age with Big Jay being 22 and Nic 21. Yet Jay has a lot more experience.

Jay has been a starter for the most part of four seasons. Nic has very little playing time under his belt.

Jay is an "Iron man" type who doesn't miss time. Nic has been injury prone since we got him.

I don't want to come off as a buzz kill, but I've seen too many guys come into the league and do well, and then get properly scouted and fall down to earth.

Jay has also had the benefit of being developed under Kenny and was with us when we were not contending for a title. I see little chance for Nic to be on Par with Jay in two years. Let's have this conversation in five years.

I went with Allen because I think he will have more opportunities to show that he is the better center in the coming years. As much as I like claxton I just think he has a long way to go and on this team it’s going to take awhile.

I think it's a bit too early for this. Allen is better right now due to experience, as well as his rim protection and rebounding.

Allen is more of a sure thing, Claxton projects to be more versatile, but he has some injury concerns and there's not a lot of tape on him which allows him to operate under the radar... I like Claxton but given what Allen has shown I'd go with him long-term.

MrDollarBills wrote:I think it's a bit too early for this. Allen is better right now due to experience, as well as his rim protection and rebounding.

Maybe it's my fault because I wasn't specific enough about the question. That's because I deal with a lot of draftniks and they would automatically get where I was going with this. But the point is, not who is the better Center RIGHT NOW, obviously it's Jarrett whose been thru his growing pains and is now beginning to peak.

The reason I specified "two years" was essentially to ask who will be the better Center when Claxton is starting to peak as well; physically, mentally etc. In the draftnik community it's a matter of studying the tools and trying to determine their ceilings when the neophyte (Claxton) is closer to his peak too. Right now he's barely scratching the surface. Ultimately the question is, who will have a better career?

I think Claxton is more agile, more of a natural athlete, more length and will be the better C barring injuries.

Allen is more well rounded, and significantly better right now. Claxton has the higher upside IMO.

Whiskey Slick wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:I think it's a bit too early for this. Allen is better right now due to experience, as well as his rim protection and rebounding.

Maybe it's my fault because I wasn't specific enough about the question. That's because I deal with a lot of draftniks and they would automatically get where I was going with this. But the point is, not who is the better Center RIGHT NOW, obviously it's Jarrett whose been thru his growing pains and is now beginning to peak.

The reason I specified "two years" was essentially to ask who will be the better Center when Claxton is starting to peak as well; physically, mentally etc. In the draftnik community it's a matter of studying the tools and trying to determine their ceilings when the neophyte (Claxton) is closer to his peak too. Right now he's barely scratching the surface. Ultimately the question is, who will have a better career?

I think Claxton is more agile, more of a natural athlete, more length and will be the better C barring injuries.

Your last point is the part that concerns me about Claxton: His availability.

I can see he has NBA level talent and high upside. But he has got to stay on the floor.

I think Claxton has alot more potential than Allen. He can do things Allen can't do such as dribbling, shooting and scoring. He also looks better defending the wing and outside the paint than Allen does. Allen is still a better rebounder and better defending the paint but I think Claxton can get where Allen is eventually with experience and strength. I'll take the Clax attack, I think he fits better in todays NBA.

Better player in 2023: hard to say for certain, I'm guessing Claxton

Better CENTER now, in 2023, in 2025 and beyond: Allen

Nic's pathway to PT on this team is at the 5, but he is by no means as pure of a 5 as Jarrett. To get the best out of Claxton long-term, I believe he'll split minutes across the frontcourt.

Also, I feel that Claxton is best suited as a supersub, even in his prime. I said before that Mikki Moore was a fair comp, but now I see the impact (not the exact role or skill set) of Chris Boucher as reasonable.

Could he possibly become an All-Star? Yes. At this stage in their development, I think that Brandan Wright and John Henson held similar perceived potential. Let's temper our expectations, but sure, let the fantasies run wild!

Papi_swav wrote:I think Claxton has alot more potential than Allen. He can do things Allen can't do such as dribbling, shooting and scoring. He also looks better defending the wing and outside the paint than Allen does. Allen is still a better rebounder and better defending the paint but I think Claxton can get where Allen is eventually with experience and strength. I'll take the Clax attack, I think he fits better in todays NBA.

Andray Blatche could do a ton of things as well, but I understand your point.

My thing is, no matter how much more skilled Nic is than Jarrett or any other young bigman, the rubber has to meet the road at some point. It's not a matter of what you can do, but what can you do at an additive level? AND, what can you keep yourself from doing, that subtracts from your positive impact?

Jarrett's extreme efficiency comes from his extraordinary discipline. He doesn't do hardly anything on the court that puts his team in a losing position. If Nic can bring all his skills to bear at the pro level, he can be a generational force. More than likely, some of his nascient skills will need to stop, because he simply won't be able to develop all of them in a helpful way. Whether he can limit himself to the things he does well, will be the major issue then.

Claxton still only has a handful of NBA games under his belt, and he's already looking a little less effective compared to his first few games back as there's more tape on him available. NBA teams adjust...people don't realize, it's HARD to stay effective in this league the more and more you play, those are still professionals on the other side of the court, who spend hours studying your film and developing a scouting report and adjusting their game plan to you. It takes constant improvement on an individual level to maintain and improve on your effectiveness. Claxton still has to show that he's not a flash in the pan type player who was only able to play well because nobody really knew about him yet, and then he falls off once teams adjust to him. It's happened to countless players before him. He seems like a good kid who works his tail off, so I don't think that will happen to him as long as he stays healthy, but you never know.

Allen on the other hand is kind of a veteran at this point, and has proven that he's not a fluke, he's shown constant improvement and is a walking double double now, in his 4th year in the league. He's been scouted, he's been adjusted for, and he's still a really good player. And he's a legit defensive force, he's exactly the type of player we need right now, and he's perfect for the modern NBA, given his mobility and his athleticism, which is similar to Claxton.

Allen has just proven himself as a much more effective player thus far, on both ends of the court, and he's been doing it for years now. Claxton has a lot to prove before this becomes a legit comparison.

And as for "long-term"? I mean, Claxton is like a year younger than Allen, they've both got great potential and room to improve. If I had the chance to trade Claxton for Allen straight up, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Can you imagine Allen on this team with Kyrie, Harden, and Durant? Allen is exactly who we need to answer whatever defensive issues we have, and we all saw that he was an awesome lob threat on the level of DJ and Claxton too.

therealbig3 wrote:And as for "long-term"? I mean, Claxton is like a year younger than Allen, they've both got great potential and room to improve.

Its not about age. It's about NBA experience.

Allen was drafted in 2017.

Claxton was drafted in 2019.

Allen officially became a STARTER in 2018, while Claxton was still in college.

Claxton was assigned to the G-league as a rookie, then tore his labrum and would miss the rest of 2019 and all of 2020, so these past few weeks are essentially his first few weeks as an NBA player.

IOW's Allen has way more NBA experience, NBA training so his body is more mature, and his "growing pains" are mostly behind him. Now he is close to a fully matured NBA STARTER with close to a fully matured NBA body.

Claxton is just getting his NBA career started and none of those things, not even a starter, but he's impressive.

Claxton is basically where Allen was in 2017 and early 18' when most Nets fans were calling him a bust.

NOBODY is calling Claxton a bust. To the contrary, most Nets fans are excited about his length, athleticism and future, especially when they project where he can be in two years. IOW's where Allen is now.

Whiskey Slick wrote:I'm going with Claxton because I love his length and athleticism.

I think he's going to be a better scorer, defender and shot blocker than Jarrett.

MAYBE a better rebounder too as his body matures and he gets stronger.

I know it sounds like homerism, but I'm sincerely trying not to be a homer. Just calling it like I see it.

Jarrett is better NOW, no doubt, but in two years I believe Claxton will be the better Center.

How bout you?

You say you like Claxton because of his length and athleticism but allen is longer, with a bigger wingspan and is more athletic.

Allen is lightyears better. Current allen is probably Claxtons peak.

this thread needs to be locked

ecuhus1981 wrote:

Papi_swav wrote:I think Claxton has alot more potential than Allen. He can do things Allen can't do such as dribbling, shooting and scoring. He also looks better defending the wing and outside the paint than Allen does. Allen is still a better rebounder and better defending the paint but I think Claxton can get where Allen is eventually with experience and strength. I'll take the Clax attack, I think he fits better in todays NBA.

Andray Blatche could do a ton of things as well, but I understand your point.

My thing is, no matter how much more skilled Nic is than Jarrett or any other young bigman, the rubber has to meet the road at some point. It's not a matter of what you can do, but what can you do at an additive level? AND, what can you keep yourself from doing, that subtracts from your positive impact?

Jarrett's extreme efficiency comes from his extraordinary discipline. He doesn't do hardly anything on the court that puts his team in a losing position. If Nic can bring all his skills to bear at the pro level, he can be a generational force. More than likely, some of his nascient skills will need to stop, because he simply won't be able to develop all of them in a helpful way. Whether he can limit himself to the things he does well, will be the major issue then.

This is spot on. And Allen is already a plus rim protector. not just shot blocker, but legit rim protector. he is deterring smalls when they beat their man or challenge their shot at the rim. not just blocking jump shots or blocking a big when defending 1 on 1. he deters all 5 opponents from scoring at the rim. that is rare, and he posseses it. he has all-nba defense potential.

He is also an elite screener and great roll man. his offensive game might be "limited" compared to claxtons but he is or was and is still near the top of the league in FG%, because he is effective and disciplined.

He is also on a semi-regular basis matching, or even sometimes ebarassing some of the leagues best players. before being traded he outplayed embiid and abused gobert in 2 blowout wins. That isnt something claxton is capable of now, and likely never will be.

Last... this stuff where claxton has such a higher potential. allen si 22 and claxton is 21. both have tons of development ahead. only allen is already several tiers better. 1 year aint gonna catch claxton up

therealbig3 wrote:Claxton still only has a handful of NBA games under his belt, and he's already looking a little less effective compared to his first few games back as there's more tape on him available. NBA teams adjust...people don't realize, it's HARD to stay effective in this league the more and more you play, those are still professionals on the other side of the court, who spend hours studying your film and developing a scouting report and adjusting their game plan to you. It takes constant improvement on an individual level to maintain and improve on your effectiveness. Claxton still has to show that he's not a flash in the pan type player who was only able to play well because nobody really knew about him yet, and then he falls off once teams adjust to him. It's happened to countless players before him. He seems like a good kid who works his tail off, so I don't think that will happen to him as long as he stays healthy, but you never know.

Yup.

To add to this. He is doing it in 15 mpg off the bench. There is a ton less opposition in small minutes and off the bench then there is starting and playing 32+ minutes per game. Allen came into the league off the bench with levert and he abused second units. eventually he started, and continued to prove he could be productive vs. other teams starters/best players and do it for 32 minutes a night.

The one benefit that Claxton has is that he will have 1 or 2 superstars and 1 or 2 elite shooters on the floor with him at all times to take focus off him. that should help him quite a bit

Prokorov wrote:You say you like Claxton because of his length and athleticism but allen is longer, with a bigger wingspan and is more athletic.

Allen is lightyears better. Current allen is probably Claxtons peak.

this thread needs to be locked

I'll save this post just to see how magnanimous you are when you're wrong.

You know, like the other night when atrocious defensive rebounding kept Detroit in the game all night. So many second and third chances my head was spinning. It's why that game went down to the wire and that's one of the worst teams in the league. Lets TRY THAT in the playoffs and see how it works. I'm sure it won't matter because you say so, and of course I need to believe you instead of my lying eyes ... so lets lock that other thread too.

From now on I'll check with you first before I start any threads or conversations.

Whiskey Slick wrote:

Prokorov wrote:You say you like Claxton because of his length and athleticism but allen is longer, with a bigger wingspan and is more athletic.

Allen is lightyears better. Current allen is probably Claxtons peak.

this thread needs to be locked

I'll save this post just to see how magnanimous you are when you're wrong.

You know, like the other night when atrocious defensive rebounding kept Detroit in the game all night. So many second and third chances my head was spinning. It's why that game went down to the wire and that's one of the worst teams in the league. Lets TRY THAT in the playoffs and see how it works. I'm sure it won't matter because you say so, and of course I need to believe you instead of my lying eyes ... so lets lock that other thread too.

From now on I'll check with you first before I start any threads or conversations.

1) I ALWAYS been willing to admit when i'm wrong. ask any of the old heads here.

2) Detroit didnt stay in last nights game because of rebounding. they stayed in last nights game because we had our worst shooting night of the season (6-28; 22%). And even then we still won the game. Rebounding has not and will not cost these teams games. and even if it did cost us a single game now and then, it certainly will not hinder our chances as a title... as i have shown in response to your posting about it the first time, the last 20 years shows conclusive evidence you can be bad, or even the worst rebounding team in the league and still win a ring. and 9 of the last 10 winters were below average with the majority bottom 8. that goes for both differential and totals adjusted for pace as well.

We dont need to "TRY that in the playoffs and see if it works" we already know for a fact that in the playoffs, it works. that is why teams no longer value rebounding, or rebounding bigs. i mean there is a reason drummond was dumped for a 2nd round pick last year and cant even seem to fetch a second rounder this year to where they need to buy him out... and would rather pay drummond to go away and roll with allen/mcgee instead.

Prokorov wrote:
1) I ALWAYS been willing to admit when i'm wrong. ask any of the old heads here.

2) Detroit didnt stay in last nights game because of rebounding.

Do the words "cognitive dissonance" ring a bell?

I'm not sure if I ever saw that many second and third chances for a team in my life.

... but it didn't matter.