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GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2

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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#161 » by GTR11 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:47 pm

Stone wrote:Time to transition back to DeAndre.....

Please no.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#162 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:50 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Claxton with only 8 minutes, while Griffin and LMA get 22 and 26 respectively.

Kind of mind-boggling to me, honestly. Yes, our offense struggled, and Griffin and LMA bring more to the table offensively, but we also struggled on defense, and were getting killed inside all game.

Don't think this game was as close as the final score indicates either. We played desperate basketball in the 4th quarter, and the closest we ever got was 7. We were down by as much as 18, and the Bulls honestly looked a little lackadaisical to even let us go on mini-runs, and then they would promptly answer back.

In my mind, this was a convincing win for the Bulls. Shut us down on offense and got whatever they wanted against our defense.


I just don't think putting in Claxton more when we desperately needed offense really moves the needle.

We lost because our offense was putrid. Neither Harris or Shamet could hit 3s. Kyrie was off. Everyone else sucked.

The Bulls were also hitting a ton of tough shots.

Sometimes losses are just nobodys fault. It was a bad game.


This. Brush this aside and move on to tomorrow
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#163 » by GTR11 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:55 pm

one of them games. Good job Bulls.

This injuries really killing us, we get no continuity whatsoever. Even if KD and Harden come back we'll have to rely on Cheez to provide some min.

I'm not sure what the game plan was tonight. I mean just ugly rotations with no sense to it. Can't ha e two washed up guys with all due respect to their previous years.

We miss Dinwiddie big time. We miss any guard if we being frank. I'm not sure how some even question if Din will have a role or resign here. Are they watching this season, I mean WTF are they seeing? I'm really dumbfounded right now.

I'm dumb tight with all this injuries right now, God damn man.

Hope TJ and Shamet ok. Hate to see players get hurt.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#164 » by mycorrizae » Sun Apr 4, 2021 11:55 pm

Harden unlocks this team's offense in a way Kyrie doesn't. KD coming back will help, but I think things will continue to look kinda clunky until Harden is back, Kyrie just isn't a floor general.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#165 » by therealbig3 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:28 am

I really liked TJ's hustle, defense, and 3pt shooting off the bench. And I mean, he was used as a combo guard on his previous teams, I actually felt like he could have been a solid PG off the bench, but he never really embraced that role, or the team never really asked him to. Not sure what the issue was there. Sucks to see him go down though, that was scary-looking, just completely non-contact. I mentioned if we could have signed Jeff Teague prior to him getting picked up by Milwaukee, he's been knocking down the 3 ball at an elite clip this year and he's a capable backup PG. Oh well.

With Harden and KD back soon, we won't really need a guard off the bench in the same way, because all 3 of the big 3 can handle playmaking duties, primarily Harden when he's out there, but Kyrie and KD when he's on the bench.

Sucks to also see Shamet hurt his ankle pretty much as soon as he came back. He's been turning it on since his awful start, and has been a valuable shooter off the bench.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#166 » by therealbig3 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:33 am

DarkXaero wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Well I guess this was bit of an experimentation game for Nash.


That's actually good to hear, was pretty clear that it was a poor fit defensively, but coaches will often stubbornly stick to certain lineups despite obviously being bad for the team overall.

I think Aldridge/Green and Claxton/Griffin are the big man combos we should see out there, with some stretches of Griffin or Green as small ball 5s, especially once KD is back. Griffin and Aldridge together are too slow to offer up much resistance in the paint. Green complements Aldridge better while Claxton complements Griffin better.

Could even try a twin towers look with Aldridge/Claxton. Twin towers works for us, because Claxton provides all the mobility and switch ability that Aldridge doesn't, while Aldridge gives us that stretch big on offense to pull a defender out of the paint and prevent them from packing the lane. It's not a traditional twin towers combo with two bigs that can't shoot on offense and can't move that well on defense.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#167 » by GTR11 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:20 am

therealbig3 wrote:I really liked TJ's hustle, defense, and 3pt shooting off the bench. And I mean, he was used as a combo guard on his previous teams, I actually felt like he could have been a solid PG off the bench, but he never really embraced that role, or the team never really asked him to. Not sure what the issue was there. Sucks to see him go down though, that was scary-looking, just completely non-contact. I mentioned if we could have signed Jeff Teague prior to him getting picked up by Milwaukee, he's been knocking down the 3 ball at an elite clip this year and he's a capable backup PG. Oh well.

With Harden and KD back soon, we won't really need a guard off the bench in the same way, because all 3 of the big 3 can handle playmaking duties, primarily Harden when he's out there, but Kyrie and KD when he's on the bench.

Sucks to also see Shamet hurt his ankle pretty much as soon as he came back. He's been turning it on since his awful start, and has been a valuable shooter off the bench.


When it comes to athletes, they can reaggravate their hamstring in a second if didn't heal properly. KD had tore Achilles and most likely was over compensating with his other leg applying more pressure on his hemi. Harden didn't have proper training camp and was forced to play 40+ min on daily basis. If some of you guys not seeing how alarming it is and what can follow its just sad.

I would temper my expectations for this year. Health is not on our side this year.

Without quality depth we ain't getting far. Marks has lots of work this offseason, resigning Dinwiddie and getting quality combo C/PF should be priority. Project players Alize Johnson need to get two way contracts. Cheez, TLC and DJ need to go.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#168 » by CalamityX12 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:36 am

I do hope, if I were to throw my hat into the overreact ring, that this isn't a sign of how minutes and roles are going forward for both lma n Griffin.

I wasn't looking at them to get bulk share nor starters matchups.

I hope this is only to get their legs in with us for now
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#169 » by HardenGoat » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:00 pm

This game shows how important Harden is running point. Kyrie went cold and he got zero foul calls, very frustrating. I think Nash used this game as an experiment and was saving Claxton for tonight’s game knowing Harden will be back. He also limited Harris who plays better when Harden is out there. This one had the feel of the throwaway game of a back to back.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#170 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:00 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:I do hope, if I were to throw my hat into the overreact ring, that this isn't a sign of how minutes and roles are going forward for both lma n Griffin.

I wasn't looking at them to get bulk share nor starters matchups.

I hope this is only to get their legs in with us for now


Nash said he isn't going to use LMA and Griffin like that going forward.

LMA should start, Griffin should be with the 2nd unit.

Harden/Irving/Harris/KD/LMA

with Green, Claxton, Brown, Shamet and Griffin in reserve roles.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#171 » by Pelly24 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:09 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:Kyrie had 15 assists with just 1 turnover, that's extremely impressive despite the crap shooting night.


The 1 TO is impressive given how much he had the ball in his hands, but the 15 assists to me is because he dominated the basketball. I actually think he was still a bit of a ball hog and was taking a lot of contested shots when there were open shooters around him.

C game from him, at best, imo.


I agree w. it being like a C game, but idk, when he didn't have the ball it didn't look like people knew what they were doing. He took some contested shots, but those are the same shots he always hits. There's no difference between the ones he makes and the ones he doesn't. Pull-up threes, off balance (but he's mostly on balance no matter what) midrange, layups, all that. The point is, he's got to score at a more efficient clip, and he didn't (even though 44% from the field's not that bad) and he generally will. He passed the ball a lot, but he knows he's the scorer. Can't rely on role players to win the game when they're not shooting well from three as a whole.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#172 » by Pelly24 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:11 pm

HardenGoat wrote:This game shows how important Harden is running point. Kyrie went cold and he got zero foul calls, very frustrating. I think Nash used this game as an experiment and was saving Claxton for tonight’s game knowing Harden will be back. He also limited Harris who plays better when Harden is out there. This one had the feel of the throwaway game of a back to back.


Idk about running point, but I think it's a reminder that Kyrie's worst games will be worse than Harden's. Harden's ability to get to the line 12 times in any given game is huge for his points. If Kyrie isn't hitting shots (which is kinda rare) he will struggle to score. But he passed the ball really well. To me it looked like he did a really good job being a floor general, which is an ability he's got and showcased early on in Cleveland, in Boston and then in games like this in BK. 2-1 without KD or Harden so far. I think Harden's like what? I think it's the same percentage.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#173 » by Prokorov » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:31 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Claxton with only 8 minutes, while Griffin and LMA get 22 and 26 respectively.

Kind of mind-boggling to me, honestly. Yes, our offense struggled, and Griffin and LMA bring more to the table offensively, but we also struggled on defense, and were getting killed inside all game.

Don't think this game was as close as the final score indicates either. We played desperate basketball in the 4th quarter, and the closest we ever got was 7. We were down by as much as 18, and the Bulls honestly looked a little lackadaisical to even let us go on mini-runs, and then they would promptly answer back.

In my mind, this was a convincing win for the Bulls. Shut us down on offense and got whatever they wanted against our defense.


I just don't think putting in Claxton more when we desperately needed offense really moves the needle.

We lost because our offense was putrid. Neither Harris or Shamet could hit 3s. Kyrie was off. Everyone else sucked.

The Bulls were also hitting a ton of tough shots.

Sometimes losses are just nobodys fault. It was a bad game.


This. Brush this aside and move on to tomorrow


Claxton would have made an enormous difference on offense. The biggest reason we werent getting threes (and i say getting because it wasnt just a lack of makes but a lack of attempts) was because we had no roll man. The majority of off-ball threes are generated via pick and roll. wings need to cheat in to help on the roll man, and that leaves the wings and corners open. 40 minutes of pick and pop/post up centers is not gonna generate a ton of three point looks. especially for your catch and shoot wings.

Case in point, claxton enters the game to start the 4th, we go on a 9-0 run with three 3 pointers.

It also doesnt help kyrie to have no roll threat, he comes off screens and its just 2-3 defenders waiting for him. Pick and pops are great, but its alot easier to run a slow bigman off the three point line straight away then it is to run a guy off the wing who can attack a close out to the baseline
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#174 » by Prokorov » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:33 pm

mycorrizae wrote:Harden unlocks this team's offense in a way Kyrie doesn't. KD coming back will help, but I think things will continue to look kinda clunky until Harden is back, Kyrie just isn't a floor general.


Kyrie had 15 assits and was in the lane all day. its hard to generate great offense with no roll man. Harden is better suited because he can hunt fouls better then Kyrie, so that would have helped. but you are not gonna win a ton of games in 2021 relying on post-ups
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#175 » by Prokorov » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:35 pm

HardenGoat wrote:This game shows how important Harden is running point. Kyrie went cold and he got zero foul calls, very frustrating. I think Nash used this game as an experiment and was saving Claxton for tonight’s game knowing Harden will be back. He also limited Harris who plays better when Harden is out there. This one had the feel of the throwaway game of a back to back.


We missed harden generate points from the FT line.

But this game really showed us how important a rim running pick and roll bigman is. people hate on Jordan, but he provides that threat. and if you dont want Jordan to play Claxton 100% should be out there.

If you can find 14 minutes for TLC but cant find even 10 minutes for Claxton something is wrong
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#176 » by Prokorov » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:36 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
CalamityX12 wrote:I do hope, if I were to throw my hat into the overreact ring, that this isn't a sign of how minutes and roles are going forward for both lma n Griffin.

I wasn't looking at them to get bulk share nor starters matchups.

I hope this is only to get their legs in with us for now


Nash said he isn't going to use LMA and Griffin like that going forward.

LMA should start, Griffin should be with the 2nd unit.

Harden/Irving/Harris/KD/LMA

with Green, Claxton, Brown, Shamet and Griffin in reserve roles.


I thinky we can 100% play 2 bigs. but you need to mix 1 of the stretch bigs with 1 of the role bigs.

We have seen Claxton/Griffin lineups work already for instance
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#177 » by Prokorov » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:46 pm

My Thoughts:

1) last thing I will say on DJ/LMA. I just want people to hold LMA to the same standard they hold DJ. if DJ gave us 11 points on 10 shots as we got crushed at the rim, it would not be a happy place for him here.

2) We need a Pick-and-roll big to play 30 minutes a night. I dont care if its DJ, Claxton, or someone off the street. we cant play like its 1985 and expect to beat teams without 2 of our big 3. We are a team built on three point shooting and your not going to generate a ton of open catch and shoot threes without the pick and roll. Cant have 40+ minutes with no rolling bigman. That really killed our offense all game.

3) Claxton getting 8 minutes is absurd any game, let alone one we were trailing double digits most of the way. He should NEVER have less minutes then TLC.

4) The rotations in this game were a head scratcher. Why are you sending Kyrie to the bench but not putting one or both of LMA/Blake on the court? we were up by 10 points early and then asked a bench of TJ/Shamet/Brown/Green/TLC to create offense. If you are going to experiment with blake/LMA thats the time to do it. with kyrie on the bench giving the second unit some guys who can get shots of their own and command a double team maybe. if there is anytime to slow the game down with post ups its when you have 0 stars on the floor and want to maintain a lead until kyrie is back in.

Where did he think the points were going to come from? TLC erratic drives followed by heaves at the rim?

5)The loss is whatever. it doesnt matter in the grand schemes. but this was a super winnable game vs an awful defense. when someone plays Vucevic/young/theis all at once you need to dominate that. DJ/Claxton would have feasted on pick and rolls. if they got any minutes next to Kyrie. or at least put pressure on the bulls to make some adjustments.

The idea that people are putting blame on Kyrie is absurd to me. 15 assists and 1 turnover.... diving into the stands, diving on lose balls. constantly going hard to the rim and getting knocked to the floor (where was nash to get on the refs for those?). Yeah off shooting night from three but the deck was really stacked against him.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#178 » by Prokorov » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:29 pm

therealbig3 wrote:Claxton with only 8 minutes, while Griffin and LMA get 22 and 26 respectively.

Kind of mind-boggling to me, honestly.

I agree, headscratcher that Claxton only played 8 minutes. even if it isnt at the expense of center minutes, you would think he could get the PF minutes TLC played when we went small. I dont like TLC getting like twice as many minutes as claxton.

Yes, our offense struggled, and Griffin and LMA bring more to the table offensively, but we also struggled on defense, and were getting killed inside all game.


I would argue that Claxton brings more to the offense then LMA or Griffin. He might not score 1 on 1 as those guys but he opens the floor up by being a verticle threat and roll threat.

I mean, claxton has a 123 offensive rating/1.23 PPP. That is the 4th highest on the team after Joe Harris/Harden/DJ. Similarly, DJ has an offensive rating of 127, which is second only to Joe Harris.

To put it in perspective, DJ/Claxton/Brown are 127/123/123 respectively.

Harden/Kyrie/KD are 123/122/120 respectively.

Obviously our stars are elite and generating the offense. but you need guys who can finish and forced defenses to collapose to open up the 3 point line. people talk about needing shooters to open up the paint but it works both ways, you need finishers to open up the 3 point line.

LMA is a very good post player by todays standards. He is shooting 48/100/100 for the nets which is outstanding. the problem is he doesnt get to the line and he doesnt shoot alot of threes so the end results is like 11 points on 5-10 shooting. and 11 points on 10 shots isnt very good. Its easier to run a slower center off the three point line top of the key off a pick and pop then it is a wing who can attack a closeout from the wing or corner. So while the pick and pop is great to space the floor, its not actually resulting in a ton of volume.

Claxton, DJ, someone off the street. this team needs a roll big who can finish. especially when harden comes back... that guy gets athletic bigs dunks better then anyone
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#179 » by Prokorov » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:32 pm

Whiskey Slick wrote:I'm more worried about the injuries to our backcourt than I am about a single loss.

Chiozza could be in for some seriously increased minutes.

I'd much rather be healthy, but IMO Chiozza is can ball. It's insurance policy that might be about to payoff.


To me our backcourt depth is Harden/Kyrie. when it counts one will be on the floor at all times. we dont really need G depth beyond that we just need shooters. which is why shamets injury irks me more then TJs but at the same time we get KD back too and him and harris will both play 32+ minutes
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Re: GT: Nets @ Bulls: Sunday 4/4/21 - 2:00 PM EST - YES-2 

Post#180 » by Prokorov » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:36 pm

DarkXaero wrote: We got off to a slow start in 1st quarter initially, but we were rolling after that, getting a 9 pt lead early. Then the bench unit came in, and the offense stagnated to a halt, while the Bulls kept chipping away (including getting into the foul bonus situation early). The hope was that the starting lineup would come back in and pick up where they left off, but they sucked and the game completely shifted. Once the momentum slipped away with the extended bench time at end of 1st/2nd quarter, Nets never recovered after that.


Yeah that was a pivotal stretch.

It didnt make sense to me to have Kyrie/Blake/LMA all sit at the same time. those are the only 3 guys we had last night who could create a shot. if you wanted to experiment with blake LMA, why not do it there? then play claxton with Kyrie to get the most out of claxton with someone who can get him lobs?

It was pretty predictable that the TJ/Shamet/TLC/Brown/Green/Claxton lineup was gonna struggle to score

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