ImageImageImageImageImage

If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for...

Moderators: NyCeEvO, Rich Rane

Kyrie for...

Derrick White & Devin Vassell
2
6%
Myles Turner & Chris Duarte
17
52%
Jerami Grant & Saddiq Bey
14
42%
 
Total votes: 33

Gooner
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,825
And1: 5,227
Joined: Sep 02, 2018
 

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#41 » by Gooner » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:32 am

Prokorov wrote:
Gooner wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
i am considering the circumstances. letting kyrie go for nothing > KCP/bertans. if we are going to move Kyrie for less the superstar value we need to do it as a salary dump so we lower the tax and can keep Harden/KD for 4 years (as of now, we could go maybe 2)


I just can't see the Nets letting Kyrie go for nothing. I also think there is room on this roster for more shooting and perimeter defense. Bertans would be a Shamet replacement, and KCP would be a perimeter defender that can also shoot, unlike Brown or Bembry. You also need more offense from Harris without Kyrie, so KCP can start games and take the best opposing perimeter player instead of him and you don't need to give guys that can't shoot too many minutes.

You can never have enough shooting in today's NBA. You lose a lot without Kyrie because he is also an elite shooter among many other things. Nets need more shooting if he doesn't come back, especially against a team like Milwaukee that packs the paint. You have to make 3's.


The nets have massive long term fincancial issue. if they cant get a star for kyrie, they would seek trades for a salary dump, not to bring in more low level role guys


If you are all or nothing on winning the championship, then you have to spend as much as possible. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Good role players make the difference between winning and losing in the playoffs.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 40,647
And1: 13,726
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#42 » by Prokorov » Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:17 pm

Gooner wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Gooner wrote:
I just can't see the Nets letting Kyrie go for nothing. I also think there is room on this roster for more shooting and perimeter defense. Bertans would be a Shamet replacement, and KCP would be a perimeter defender that can also shoot, unlike Brown or Bembry. You also need more offense from Harris without Kyrie, so KCP can start games and take the best opposing perimeter player instead of him and you don't need to give guys that can't shoot too many minutes.

You can never have enough shooting in today's NBA. You lose a lot without Kyrie because he is also an elite shooter among many other things. Nets need more shooting if he doesn't come back, especially against a team like Milwaukee that packs the paint. You have to make 3's.


The nets have massive long term fincancial issue. if they cant get a star for kyrie, they would seek trades for a salary dump, not to bring in more low level role guys


If you are all or nothing on winning the championship, then you have to spend as much as possible. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Good role players make the difference between winning and losing in the playoffs.


If you want to have more then a 1 year window of winning, you need to keep taxes managable. you want 2 or 3 more years of harden/KD? well you need to clear that salary then. an owner can stomach the tax for a superstar, hell no on KCP.

Why do you think spencer dinwiddie isnt here right now? its not cause they didnt think he could be a championship level role player ill tell you that
Gooner
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,825
And1: 5,227
Joined: Sep 02, 2018
 

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#43 » by Gooner » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:09 am

Prokorov wrote:
Gooner wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
The nets have massive long term fincancial issue. if they cant get a star for kyrie, they would seek trades for a salary dump, not to bring in more low level role guys


If you are all or nothing on winning the championship, then you have to spend as much as possible. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Good role players make the difference between winning and losing in the playoffs.


If you want to have more then a 1 year window of winning, you need to keep taxes managable. you want 2 or 3 more years of harden/KD? well you need to clear that salary then. an owner can stomach the tax for a superstar, hell no on KCP.

Why do you think spencer dinwiddie isnt here right now? its not cause they didnt think he could be a championship level role player ill tell you that


He would stomach that for Durant and Harden, just like Cavs owner had to stomach JR Smith, Tristan Thompson and those guys for LeBron. They will make the call on this Kyrie trade, like KD made the call on Atkinson, Nash and other things. The point is that the poster that I replied to said that Kyrie is untradeable, which I don't think is true. You can get something like this, or something like John Wall if you want to go player for player, position for position. Maybe Eric Gordon and Danuel House, to bring Harden his former teammates. That's what you can realistically get for Kyrie.

It's up to KD. If he says "get John Wall", they'll get him. If he says that they need more shooters, they'll get more shooters. KD is the type of guy that always wants more help. There is also politics involved, nobody wants to lose a player for nothing, it always looks like bad business even if it isn't.

Dinwiddie was expendable because Kyrie was there, with Harden. I'm sure they would like to have him back now with this salary.
Dannyboy36
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,893
And1: 792
Joined: Sep 28, 2016

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#44 » by Dannyboy36 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:46 pm

Turner is overall a poor defender. No matter how many blocks he gets every team’s game plan is to get him on a switch where he’s too slow and can’t move his feet.
JKiddy
Senior
Posts: 736
And1: 86
Joined: Jul 28, 2002

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#45 » by JKiddy » Wed Nov 3, 2021 7:41 pm

Does anyone know anyone who has contact with Kyrie?

This is truly getting out of hand. Someone who he trusts needs to speak with him and explain to him that the vaccine is not harmful whatsoever. Millions of peoples lives have been saved by it. Hundreds of thousands of people have died because they either did not get it or could not get the vaccine in time. If it was harmful he would not be allowed to get it from a medical professional nevermind at a local pharmacy!
andrewww
General Manager
Posts: 7,948
And1: 2,625
Joined: Jul 26, 2006
     

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#46 » by andrewww » Wed Nov 3, 2021 7:53 pm

No need to choose.

NYC mayor elect is said to likely choose to lift the mandate for a multitude of reasons. Kyrie's stance will pay off good for him.
JKiddy
Senior
Posts: 736
And1: 86
Joined: Jul 28, 2002

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#47 » by JKiddy » Wed Nov 3, 2021 8:23 pm

I hope he is staying in shape and ready to play if that is the case.

Give him a week of practice and get him back out there if that occurs. If not, he has to really think about his legacy and how he wants to be perceived by his teammates and ownership. I hope he can play soon. If not, it is never a good thing to be away for so long in any job.
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 15,996
And1: 1,154
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#48 » by ecuhus1981 » Wed Nov 3, 2021 11:10 pm

andrewww wrote:No need to choose.

NYC mayor elect is said to likely choose to lift the mandate for a multitude of reasons. Kyrie's stance will pay off good for him.

Could you provide a link? I saw that he won, and he made some vague, bullish statements about Kyrie's presence in the future. But this would be the most concrete quote I've seen on the matter.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
TheNetsFan
Analyst
Posts: 3,660
And1: 937
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
   

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#49 » by TheNetsFan » Thu Nov 4, 2021 12:57 am

I don't think there's a chance that the mandate gets lifted until after the holidays. Certainly not until after Thanksgiving weekend. If there's no significant post holiday gathering uptick, then mandates will probably relax.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 40,647
And1: 13,726
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#50 » by Prokorov » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:15 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:
andrewww wrote:No need to choose.

NYC mayor elect is said to likely choose to lift the mandate for a multitude of reasons. Kyrie's stance will pay off good for him.

Could you provide a link? I saw that he won, and he made some vague, bullish statements about Kyrie's presence in the future. But this would be the most concrete quote I've seen on the matter.


https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264617/Eric-Adams-To-Revisit-NYCs-COVID-Vaccine-Mandate-Upon-Taking-Office-Jan-1

Between him saying today that he will revisit the mandate on the first and earlier comments about being "very optomistic" kyrie will play this year its a solid bet he changes it so athletes can play unvaxxed with 2 negative tests
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 40,826
And1: 16,575
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#51 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 4, 2021 10:39 am

Honestly, you guys are doing a lot of wishful thinking. Eric Adams doesn't take office til next year, and frankly, we have no evidence outside of vague statements that he's going to lift the mandate.

This isn't some game. If he lifts the mandate and cases in NYC begin to skyrocket, that's his ass. There is also evidence that Adams is actually more pro mandate than DeBlasio is based on his views regarding mandating children be vaccinated to attend school.

But, whatever. I'm not looking to debate this, I just wanted to pump the brakes a bit.

Also, Woj:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

The last time Woj got on TV and spoke like this about us, Kyrie got told to stay home the next day. That was not a coincidence. I absolutely believe that Woj has a source inside the Nets and these trade calls are real.

Personally? I would not want him traded. But at this point, if the Nets can add more to this roster by trading a guy who basically abandoned the team, you do it.

Also, we're now seeing unvaccinated players going out around the league with covid. Tobias Harris is out now, Khris Middleton is out and was actually pretty symptomatic from what I read. You don't want that crap here and we lose Harden or KD for games due to exposure or actual breakthroughs.

The weather is cooling down and that is ripe for the virus to start spreading. The NY Giants are dealing with covid issues now, even a vaccinated player like Saquon Barkley tested positive. Aaron Rodgers is now out because he contracted Covid, most likely at a Halloween party (he also lied and told the media he's vaccinated, which is a whole other topic). This is not the time to be messing around.
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 15,996
And1: 1,154
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#52 » by ecuhus1981 » Thu Nov 4, 2021 2:14 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Also, Woj:

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Thanks for the update MDB.

At my core, I'm equal parts sentimentalist and pragmatist. I love the prodigal son story of Kyrie here, especially since he influenced 2 of the top 4 players in the league to come here. No matter what, I'll always appreciate that, and I wish he could be here to see this project to its fruition. Still, we're dealing with an unreliable 3rd star who wants to lead but doesn't communicate, and suffers from the empathy version of farsightedness. He will move mountains to help a stranger across the globe, but won't do the bare minimum to help a teammate. He actually *could* work as the offensive talisman on a defensive juggernaut, but I don't think we can afford our Ringo/Rodman to be this flighty.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 15,996
And1: 1,154
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#53 » by ecuhus1981 » Thu Nov 4, 2021 2:25 pm

One more thing ("why do you assume you're the smartest in the room..."):

Of all the trade machine tinkering I've done since Kyrie-Gate behavior, one proposal rises above the rest. It's one of the poll options, with an additional swap thrown in to sweeten the pot for us. The deal would end up Irving and Claxton for White, Poeltl and Vassell. While none of them are stars, they would each fill a role and all are plus defenders. From the modeling I've seen, boosting our defense to the level that this Spurs trio would is worth more in the regular season AND postseason than having a 3rd elite offensive weapon. I think we need to do it.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
KD35Netted
Rookie
Posts: 1,027
And1: 258
Joined: Feb 17, 2014

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#54 » by KD35Netted » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:07 pm

I see where it's all headed and it makes sense, call me crazy, I see KAT for Kyrie actually happening and I want it to happen. KAT would make us more lethal and we would wipe out our weakness up front while adding scoring and another star in the process. Minny has Edwards and I am sure they would welcome a superstar like Kyrie. The Lakers would hate the T-Wolves for this.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 40,826
And1: 16,575
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#55 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:34 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Also, Woj:

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Thanks for the update MDB.

At my core, I'm equal parts sentimentalist and pragmatist. I love the prodigal son story of Kyrie here, especially since he influenced 2 of the top 4 players in the league to come here. No matter what, I'll always appreciate that, and I wish he could be here to see this project to its fruition. Still, we're dealing with an unreliable 3rd star who wants to lead but doesn't communicate, and suffers from the empathy version of farsightedness. He will move mountains to help a stranger across the globe, but won't do the bare minimum to help a teammate. He actually *could* work as the offensive talisman on a defensive juggernaut, but I don't think we can afford our Ringo/Rodman to be this flighty.


Yeah regardless of my personal views on vaccinations and covid, I want Kyrie here to win with us. But I guess it's not happening.

and now there is this:

Read on Twitter


Sh*t is going to hit the fan.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 40,647
And1: 13,726
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#56 » by Prokorov » Thu Nov 4, 2021 7:01 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Honestly, you guys are doing a lot of wishful thinking. Eric Adams doesn't take office til next year, and frankly, we have no evidence outside of vague statements that he's going to lift the mandate.

This isn't some game. If he lifts the mandate and cases in NYC begin to skyrocket, that's his ass. There is also evidence that Adams is actually more pro mandate than DeBlasio is based on his views regarding mandating children be vaccinated to attend school.

But, whatever. I'm not looking to debate this, I just wanted to pump the brakes a bit.

Also, Woj:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

The last time Woj got on TV and spoke like this about us, Kyrie got told to stay home the next day. That was not a coincidence. I absolutely believe that Woj has a source inside the Nets and these trade calls are real.

Personally? I would not want him traded. But at this point, if the Nets can add more to this roster by trading a guy who basically abandoned the team, you do it.

Also, we're now seeing unvaccinated players going out around the league with covid. Tobias Harris is out now, Khris Middleton is out and was actually pretty symptomatic from what I read. You don't want that crap here and we lose Harden or KD for games due to exposure or actual breakthroughs.

The weather is cooling down and that is ripe for the virus to start spreading. The NY Giants are dealing with covid issues now, even a vaccinated player like Saquon Barkley tested positive. Aaron Rodgers is now out because he contracted Covid, most likely at a Halloween party (he also lied and told the media he's vaccinated, which is a whole other topic). This is not the time to be messing around.


1) Eric Adams never talked of lifting the Mandate. He talked about revising it. he said if current administration doesn't he will. Which he should since the mandate SHOULD exsist and it SHOULD be revised, since it is complete trash in a dozen ways. He want to protect citizens but also get them back to work. forcing municipal worker to get vaccinated or lost their job during the Holidays is political suicide and really not a great look. Forget Kyrie, there are plenty other instances where you hav e95% vaccinated workforce where those unvaxxed should be allowed to work following strict protocols (multipe tests, masks, etc...).

2) He said he was "extremely optomistic" kyrie would be back playing this year. Its good politically when sports teams do well. it increases economy around them. Kyrie probably doesnt move the needle for the nets so much but there are what. 12 teams across 4 sports? Scientifically, there is no reason why Beal or Middleton, or whomever poses less risk then Kyrie. The scientific risk is also approach 0 in a scenario where:
-players are vaccinated
-Kyrie is contact traced
-Kyrie is masked 100% of the time off court
-Kyrie is tested 2+ times per day

3) Regarding breakthrough infections. they are extremely rare and the majority of sports cases where COVID is infectin teams is because these guys are not actually vaccinated. Bert Breer talked today that after the rogers thing concern around the league is agents are getting this guys fake vaccination cards.

Breakthrough infection when 0-5% of your team is unvaccinated and following protocol is extremely rare. and guys like Harris/Midddleton or any player is probably more likely to get COVID from their personal live areound unmasked unvaxxed friends who are not going through testing/protocol Kyrie/unvaxxed players need to go through.

4) Most relevant to the Nets, you 100% do NOT trade Kyrie if it looks like the mandate will be revised to allow him to play. 1/2 season + playoffs of Kyrie is like 5 to 10 times better then any return we could get for him. And if you DO trade him, its after the mandate is revised, so that teams dont short change you, he can play vs the knicks/nets (2 lock playoff teams) and his value is alot higher and he can maybe play a week or 2 to raise value with on court play.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 40,647
And1: 13,726
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#57 » by Prokorov » Thu Nov 4, 2021 7:02 pm

KD35Netted wrote:I see where it's all headed and it makes sense, call me crazy, I see KAT for Kyrie actually happening and I want it to happen. KAT would make us more lethal and we would wipe out our weakness up front while adding scoring and another star in the process. Minny has Edwards and I am sure they would welcome a superstar like Kyrie. The Lakers would hate the T-Wolves for this.


i dont view KAT as an upgrade to Blake, LMA, or aldridge.

He is a losing empty stats player who plays horrfic defense and has a horrible attitude. eveyrhting butler said about him turned out to be spot on.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 40,647
And1: 13,726
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#58 » by Prokorov » Thu Nov 4, 2021 7:05 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:Also, Woj:

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Thanks for the update MDB.

At my core, I'm equal parts sentimentalist and pragmatist. I love the prodigal son story of Kyrie here, especially since he influenced 2 of the top 4 players in the league to come here. No matter what, I'll always appreciate that, and I wish he could be here to see this project to its fruition. Still, we're dealing with an unreliable 3rd star who wants to lead but doesn't communicate, and suffers from the empathy version of farsightedness. He will move mountains to help a stranger across the globe, but won't do the bare minimum to help a teammate. He actually *could* work as the offensive talisman on a defensive juggernaut, but I don't think we can afford our Ringo/Rodman to be this flighty.


Yeah regardless of my personal views on vaccinations and covid, I want Kyrie here to win with us. But I guess it's not happening.

and now there is this:

Read on Twitter


Sh*t is going to hit the fan.


Woof. forget the Nets, that is going to send some serious waves across the country. props to Biden if he has the balls to do it. 1/2 the states will fight it. would be a wedge issue for senate elections. I think he is smarter to let states handle it. the red ones are going to fight/ignore it, and the blue ones are already kind of inline with that
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 40,647
And1: 13,726
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#59 » by Prokorov » Thu Nov 4, 2021 7:10 pm

Also Re: Kyrie trade...

he may not "retire" if he is traded, or threaten to retire, but he certainly isnt going to willingly go someplace like Minnesota. And the Wolves would want to think twice with their political climate bringing in kyrie. he would have a reason to protest social justice every night.

Kyrie is also a pending free agent with his option. Few teams would trade for him unless he is the missing piece to a title, can get him dirt cheap, or are confident he will stay.

A) The list of teams that would feel confident he would stay are probably 1 and that 1 is the nets.

B) the list of teams where he is the final title piece is probably closer to 6, but none of those teams is sending back a star and doesnt have picks/young assets worth while.

C) Which likely means, drastically diminished returns.

If you have to settle for C, you want until the deadline. he may actually be able to play some games by then. maybe you even let him play on the road trip leading up to the deadline to showcase him. but trading him know to someone looking for a discount is a bad idea.

Best route to trade Kyrie - wait to the deadline - play him on the road - trade him to a team of his choice (they would be more motivated to give up more)

the other route is to just trade kyrie for a trade exception and non guaranteed/expiring salary. if we want to keep harden/KD long term, cutting salary needs to happen at some point. this would be an opportunity
Whiskey Slick
Pro Prospect
Posts: 858
And1: 368
Joined: Jan 17, 2021
       

Re: If You Had to Choose: Kyrie for... 

Post#60 » by Whiskey Slick » Thu Nov 4, 2021 7:42 pm

If I had to choose between Kyrie and two pairs of brand new, well preserved, old school Dr. J leather converse, one high tops and one low, ALL WHITE with the RED STAR on the side, I'm taking the Cons in an eye-blink.
KYRIE IRVING TRIED TO SABOTAGE THE BROOKLYN NETS 2021/22 SEASON, PERIOD.

WHO KNEW KYRIE WOULD BECOME THE WORST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE NETS?

Return to Brooklyn Nets