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Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES

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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#41 » by Fallout_3 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:55 am

Is Carter better than Tyler Johnson? At least he did hit threes.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#42 » by Prokorov » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:33 pm

KD35Netted wrote:I want to hear Proky's take.


1) I'm not really down on the effort/performance. second of a back to back for a veteran team is going to be ugly. we built 20+ point leads, but didnt have the stamina to hold them. I'd be more concerned if we were down big all game or the D was terrible.

2) Nash being a terrible coach is no surprise to me. ive been screaming that since early last year.

3) The "we should have kept shamet" stuff to me is silly. Through 15 games last year Shamet was shooting 26.9% from three(14-52). Jevon Carter is shooting 27.9% (12-43) from three right now. People have some short memories and were KILLING Shamet this time last year. I'll say the same thing about Carter I said about Harris 2 weeks ago that I said about shamet last year. It will even out, a hot streak will get him back towards his career average (38%)

4) This team will sleepwalk to 50-55 wins. Not great showing vs some good teams, but other then the dubs, we only played 3 good teams (philly/miami/milwaukee). we won 1 of those and Harden was kinda of trash those first handful of games. I think we will fair better as the year goes on.... But we cerainly are far from favorites as is with Nash coaching.

5) This is why you don't trade Kyrie. Adding Myles turner or some 3 & D wing isnt going to make nash a competant coach and those guys dont move the needle enough to make us title favorites unless Harden/KD return to absolute peak form, which they might. Kyrie is so great that he helps overcome nash and 3 top 10 players makes you the title favorite even with Nash. It is part of why I say i'd rather get nothing on the lower chance he is back by the playoffs then deal him for 75 cents who wont really be a big boost over whoevers lineup spot they take.

6) James Johnson looks old and slow. i was excited about him, but he seems washed. good teamate, tough, glad he is still around, but keep him on the bench. Milsap is missed. he is our best stretch 4 outside KD obviously. And he hits the glass a bit.

7) We have this weird issue that is like the opposite of no spacing. we have no paint threat. 5 out doesnt help us much cause we just take jumpshots, so teams dont need to worry about being spread out or protecting the rim. Harden is starting to get it back, but we need a verticle threat. look at what brown does on rolls and he is like 6'6"

11-5 has me high, not low, regardless of showings vs GSW/bucks
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#43 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:08 pm

Prokorov wrote:
KD35Netted wrote:I want to hear Proky's take.


1) I'm not really down on the effort/performance. second of a back to back for a veteran team is going to be ugly. we built 20+ point leads, but didnt have the stamina to hold them. I'd be more concerned if we were down big all game or the D was terrible.

2) Nash being a terrible coach is no surprise to me. ive been screaming that since early last year.

3) The "we should have kept shamet" stuff to me is silly. Through 15 games last year Shamet was shooting 26.9% from three(14-52). Jevon Carter is shooting 27.9% (12-43) from three right now. People have some short memories and were KILLING Shamet this time last year. I'll say the same thing about Carter I said about Harris 2 weeks ago that I said about shamet last year. It will even out, a hot streak will get him back towards his career average (38%)

4) This team will sleepwalk to 50-55 wins. Not great showing vs some good teams, but other then the dubs, we only played 3 good teams (philly/miami/milwaukee). we won 1 of those and Harden was kinda of trash those first handful of games. I think we will fair better as the year goes on.... But we cerainly are far from favorites as is with Nash coaching.

5) This is why you don't trade Kyrie. Adding Myles turner or some 3 & D wing isnt going to make nash a competant coach and those guys dont move the needle enough to make us title favorites unless Harden/KD return to absolute peak form, which they might. Kyrie is so great that he helps overcome nash and 3 top 10 players makes you the title favorite even with Nash. It is part of why I say i'd rather get nothing on the lower chance he is back by the playoffs then deal him for 75 cents who wont really be a big boost over whoevers lineup spot they take.

6) James Johnson looks old and slow. i was excited about him, but he seems washed. good teamate, tough, glad he is still around, but keep him on the bench. Milsap is missed. he is our best stretch 4 outside KD obviously. And he hits the glass a bit.

7) We have this weird issue that is like the opposite of no spacing. we have no paint threat. 5 out doesnt help us much cause we just take jumpshots, so teams dont need to worry about being spread out or protecting the rim. Harden is starting to get it back, but we need a verticle threat. look at what brown does on rolls and he is like 6'6"

11-5 has me high, not low, regardless of showings vs GSW/bucks


I'm concerned that we are skating by because we have talent, but we have been getting exposed when we play actual good teams.

We've been blown out by The Bucks, Bulls, Hornets, Warriors, and the Heat. All playoff teams (Bucks are kind of struggling right now, but they are the champs). Outside of the Sixers and Wizards, we've been feasting on garbage teams. In 4 of our losses, we've been held to under a hundred points.

I think that these are really bad signs for us in the long run. These games against good teams aren't even competitive, our offense gets easily shut down and Nash stands by looking utterly clueless as to why teams with talent and above average coaching are killing us.

Our offense is utter crap, we're hovering around #15 in the league offensively. All we do is go down the floor and isolate KD or let Harden dribble until he can either find a lane to drive, do a step back 3, or make a bailout pass with 6 secs left on the clock. Guys just stand around watching. I feel like last year the ball moved so much better.

Our only saving grace is our defense is actually pretty good when the idiot coach doesn't sabotage it, and the fact that we have two nuclear weapons to keep this team afloat.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#44 » by NetsJets » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:11 pm

These scoring droughts are a killer that’s how we lost to the Warriors. Same issues against the Cavs.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#45 » by Hello Brooklyn » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:33 pm

Fallout_3 wrote:Is Carter better than Tyler Johnson? At least he did hit threes.


No way lol!

Johnson wasn't a black hole on offense.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#46 » by Hello Brooklyn » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:36 pm

Prokorov wrote:3) The "we should have kept shamet" stuff to me is silly. Through 15 games last year Shamet was shooting 26.9% from three(14-52). Jevon Carter is shooting 27.9% (12-43) from three right now. People have some short memories and were KILLING Shamet this time last year. I'll say the same thing about Carter I said about Harris 2 weeks ago that I said about shamet last year. It will even out, a hot streak will get him back towards his career average (38%)


Overall, I agree with you. The Nets are in a very good place right now.

Despite ALL of our issue we are tied for #1 in the East. And Harden is rounding into form.

But comparing Jevon Carter to Harris or Shamet is stupid. Shamet and Harris are both elite shooters. Its inevitable they would get back to where they were.

Carter has never gotten high minutes or volume. You can't just assume he will be a good 3 point shooter in this type of role.

The trade made no sense to me. We don't even play Sharpe. We could have kept Shamet. And retained Tyler Johnson or TLC who are basically of the same caliber as Carter.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#47 » by NetsJets » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:38 pm

Shamet is better than Carter.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#48 » by Hello Brooklyn » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:40 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
KD35Netted wrote:I want to hear Proky's take.


1) I'm not really down on the effort/performance. second of a back to back for a veteran team is going to be ugly. we built 20+ point leads, but didnt have the stamina to hold them. I'd be more concerned if we were down big all game or the D was terrible.

2) Nash being a terrible coach is no surprise to me. ive been screaming that since early last year.

3) The "we should have kept shamet" stuff to me is silly. Through 15 games last year Shamet was shooting 26.9% from three(14-52). Jevon Carter is shooting 27.9% (12-43) from three right now. People have some short memories and were KILLING Shamet this time last year. I'll say the same thing about Carter I said about Harris 2 weeks ago that I said about shamet last year. It will even out, a hot streak will get him back towards his career average (38%)

4) This team will sleepwalk to 50-55 wins. Not great showing vs some good teams, but other then the dubs, we only played 3 good teams (philly/miami/milwaukee). we won 1 of those and Harden was kinda of trash those first handful of games. I think we will fair better as the year goes on.... But we cerainly are far from favorites as is with Nash coaching.

5) This is why you don't trade Kyrie. Adding Myles turner or some 3 & D wing isnt going to make nash a competant coach and those guys dont move the needle enough to make us title favorites unless Harden/KD return to absolute peak form, which they might. Kyrie is so great that he helps overcome nash and 3 top 10 players makes you the title favorite even with Nash. It is part of why I say i'd rather get nothing on the lower chance he is back by the playoffs then deal him for 75 cents who wont really be a big boost over whoevers lineup spot they take.

6) James Johnson looks old and slow. i was excited about him, but he seems washed. good teamate, tough, glad he is still around, but keep him on the bench. Milsap is missed. he is our best stretch 4 outside KD obviously. And he hits the glass a bit.

7) We have this weird issue that is like the opposite of no spacing. we have no paint threat. 5 out doesnt help us much cause we just take jumpshots, so teams dont need to worry about being spread out or protecting the rim. Harden is starting to get it back, but we need a verticle threat. look at what brown does on rolls and he is like 6'6"

11-5 has me high, not low, regardless of showings vs GSW/bucks


I'm concerned that we are skating by because we have talent, but we have been getting exposed when we play actual good teams.

We've been blown out by The Bucks, Bulls, Hornets, Warriors, and the Heat. All playoff teams (Bucks are kind of struggling right now, but they are the champs). Outside of the Sixers and Wizards, we've been feasting on garbage teams. In 4 of our losses, we've been held to under a hundred points.

I think that these are really bad signs for us in the long run. These games against good teams aren't even competitive, our offense gets easily shut down and Nash stands by looking utterly clueless as to why teams with talent and above average coaching are killing us.

Our offense is utter crap, we're hovering around #15 in the league offensively. All we do is go down the floor and isolate KD or let Harden dribble until he can either find a lane to drive, do a step back 3, or make a bailout pass with 6 secs left on the clock. Guys just stand around watching. I feel like last year the ball moved so much better.

Our only saving grace is our defense is actually pretty good when the idiot coach doesn't sabotage it, and the fact that we have two nuclear weapons to keep this team afloat.


Its just way too early in the season to get seriously worried about anything.

If we were 7-8 like the Bucks you would have more of a point. Were 11-5. And were only going to get better.

Harden is getting better everyday. Nash is still figuring out the rotations. Marks might have a move or two to make.

Neither the Warriors, Heat or the Bucks have two MVPs in their prime.

And this is assuming we don't get Kyrie back by the playoffs.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#49 » by ecuhus1981 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:51 pm

I hear both MDB and P. I'm more on the Prok side of this discussion.

I plotted out the entire season on a calendar, every projected win and loss, not just an aggregate number but exactly where and when we get our season record. So far, we are one win ahead of schedule. We're gonna lose some stinkers, we're gonna pull off some miracles. We haven't really done either so far, only looked rough in stretches, which is fine. Wringing our hands about a less effective offense is mindless, to me. We all knew that our defense needed to improve, and we went out and got defenders. The opportunity cost of this approach is that you have guys with limited offensive ability. Pretty good O + very good D is less sexy, but it's a whole lot easier to win a title that way. I'll take that option.

Treading water relative to our projection while we're down 4 of our top 9 key contributors (Millsap, Claxton, Harris and HWSNBN) is commendable. Nash is a known quantity, I'm not even upset with him so far this season. I'm numb to it. He likes to make dumb decisions and stick with them, so that he can look back on film and have proof of what not to do. Sometimes, the mistakes he purposely makes are painfully obvious, but the end product is that he coaches well down the stretch, which he did last season. Let's hope lightning strikes twice.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#50 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:52 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Neither the Warriors, Heat or the Bucks have two MVPs in their prime.




And yet we got demolished by all three of them.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#51 » by ecuhus1981 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:06 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Neither the Warriors, Heat or the Bucks have two MVPs in their prime.




And yet we got demolished by all three of them.

I get your frustration, man, I really do. We're not the Dynasty Bulls, or the Showtime Lakers. So what? It feels like no one is really separating from the pack this season. The Lakers and Bucks, 2 teams who were supposedly our biggest title rivals, have far worse records than us, and have looked worse than us overall. The few teams that have definitively outplayed us so far through 15 games are all really good teams, probable title contenders, and they're mostly healthy. Missing a top 15 player while your top 8 player returns from injury means we're not the overwhelming favorite that we were promised to be.

Let's all take a breath. Do you see Milwaukee or Los Angeles fans running for the hills, pulling out their hair or otherwise panicking? They would KILL to be in our position right now.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#52 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:09 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Neither the Warriors, Heat or the Bucks have two MVPs in their prime.




And yet we got demolished by all three of them.

I get your frustration, man, I really do. We're not the Dynasty Bulls, or the Showtime Lakers. So what? It feels like no one is really separating from the pack this season. The Lakers and Bucks, 2 teams who were supposedly our biggest title rivals, have far worse records than us, and have looked worse than us overall. The few teams that have definitively outplayed us so far through 15 games are all really good teams, probable title contenders, and they're mostly healthy. Missing a top 15 player while your top 8 player returns from injury means we're not the overwhelming favorite that we were promised to be.

Let's all take a breath. Do you see Milwaukee or Los Angeles fans running for the hills, pulling out their hair or otherwise panicking? They would KILL to be in our position right now.



Lakers and Bucks fans have seen their team win championships though so its a lot easier to swallow :lol:
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#53 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:10 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Prokorov wrote:3) The "we should have kept shamet" stuff to me is silly. Through 15 games last year Shamet was shooting 26.9% from three(14-52). Jevon Carter is shooting 27.9% (12-43) from three right now. People have some short memories and were KILLING Shamet this time last year. I'll say the same thing about Carter I said about Harris 2 weeks ago that I said about shamet last year. It will even out, a hot streak will get him back towards his career average (38%)


Overall, I agree with you. The Nets are in a very good place right now.

Despite ALL of our issue we are tied for #1 in the East. And Harden is rounding into form.

But comparing Jevon Carter to Harris or Shamet is stupid. Shamet and Harris are both elite shooters. Its inevitable they would get back to where they were.

Carter has never gotten high minutes or volume. You can't just assume he will be a good 3 point shooter in this type of role.

The trade made no sense to me. We don't even play Sharpe. We could have kept Shamet. And retained Tyler Johnson or TLC who are basically of the same caliber as Carter.


Carter wasn't even supposed to be in the rotation, so there's that. But i agree, he is a major downgrade from Shamet.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#54 » by Hello Brooklyn » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:17 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Neither the Warriors, Heat or the Bucks have two MVPs in their prime.




And yet we got demolished by all three of them.


Its an 82 game season and youre losing it over a few games where Harden isn't himself yet?

Youre being hysterical man. Take a step back. Give the team some time.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#55 » by HardenGoat » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:23 pm

To me the big differences are:
#1 - Harden has not been himself physically, last year he was 100% MVP worthy from the gate, the offense flows through him, this is critical and can't be stressed enough.
#2 - we have clearly had a setback with a couple newbies on the roster, Carter and Johnson, trying to integrate this with an 80% (now 90%) Harden is painful to watch
#3 - we are missing shots, wide open ones, Carter and Griffin especially
#4 - Dantoni is not lurking - we abandoned a pick and roll offense that opens our wing shooters, maybe part of that is planned due to Harden not being ready for a full attack yet, he's almost there though so time will tell. We lost Jordan, Green, and this year Claxton which hasn't helped.
#5 - The Kyrie situation really #### our plans and threw us off big time, we are starting a season without a huge key piece we thought would be there, I mean the offense was built around a big 3 wasn't it? We don't have the luxury anymore of a second elite ball handler and scorer that Kyrie represents.

Good news is Iam confident we will see MVP worthy Harden at the second half of the season, at least in bigger games because he is going to save himself this year. We have also identified our weaknesses, and this is before the trade deadline. Plus Claxton should be back. Maybe Nash is getting a look at how well his players stack up against true competition before the deadline, that might actually be a smart thing to do. It's also good, that despite all this, we are certainly not struggling like Lakers/Philly/Bucks right now. Bucks have less to worry about than the former two though. If our defense was struggling like the Lakers that would be a tough pill to swallow. And Philly is certainly in trouble with their star "guard" mentally checking out and then having an injury bug to deal with as well.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#56 » by CalamityX12 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:13 pm

We abandon running a pro offense.

It's glorified isos
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#57 » by MGrand15 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:42 pm

I'm gonna take my hand off the panic button for a minute. I think we've been playing an ugly, losing brand of basketball for most of the season but it's only November. I 100% expect Marks to be aggressive starting December 15th once you can trade off-season signings. I think this team was fully built with Kyrie in mind and it shows. We're short on shooting, scoring, and speed. I really believe the Kyrie bridge has been completely burned and we'll find a trade partner.

This won't be the same team at all come January. Right now the main focus is health and the team not completely collapsing. Collapse doesn't seem likely since we're playing decent. Everything else is whatever.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#58 » by Prokorov » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:22 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Neither the Warriors, Heat or the Bucks have two MVPs in their prime.




And yet we got demolished by all three of them.


the bucks have gotten demolished by some scrub teams the year. heat got smacked by boston without tatum playing. none of this really matters in 1 game early season samples. cant point out the losses then also ignore wins over philly, washington, atlanta
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#59 » by Prokorov » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:25 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
Carter wasn't even supposed to be in the rotation, so there's that. But i agree, he is a major downgrade from Shamet.


I will again point on that last year through 15 games shamet was shooting worse then carter on similar volume. maybe shamet is better, but shamet is a guy everyone but me and maybe 1 or 2 other people wanted to crucify and banish from the team this time last year, saying he was worse then the guy we traded for him.

its quite literally the same situation. Shamet came back to his averages and people came around on him. same will happen with carter, who people raved about in preseason when his shot was falling.
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Re: Nets v. Cavs | 11.17.2021 @ 7:30 PM on YES 

Post#60 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:25 pm

Thanks for talking me off of the ledge fellas, I know I can always count on yall to be reasonable when I start panicking

Nash is not very good as a coach though.

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