ImageImageImageImageImage

GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30

Moderators: NyCeEvO, Rich Rane

Jay555
Junior
Posts: 283
And1: 100
Joined: May 30, 2021

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#121 » by Jay555 » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:12 pm

Sharcm1 wrote:Is it problem that harden cannot catch and shoot? He’s really bad at it. Seems the only threes he can hit is dribble dribble dribble step back or side


He’s not a catch and shoot guy. He shoots contested/step back 3 at a better clip than a wide open 3 which is weird.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 41,404
And1: 13,979
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#122 » by Prokorov » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:13 pm

Sharcm1 wrote:Is it problem that harden cannot catch and shoot? He’s really bad at it. Seems the only threes he can hit is dribble dribble dribble step back or side


Considering his volume of catch and shoot is almost zero, id say it is not even remotely close to being a problem.

Harden is shooting 31% on catch and shoot threes. (He is shooting 33% from 3PT overall)

He has taken 223 threes this year. only 29 of those were catch and shoot. he is 9-29 in those situations. If he had hit 1 more of those, he would be at 35% which is basically his career average/higher then his current season average.

The data really doesn't show that Harden is any worse on catch and shoot threes. the difference is negligible especially given the relative sample size
Jay555
Junior
Posts: 283
And1: 100
Joined: May 30, 2021

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#123 » by Jay555 » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:19 pm

KD35Netted wrote:I’m slowly getting convinced that KD will need a different star to team up with next season. Harden is constantly making lazy passes causing turnovers and Kyrie is not dependable to play for the Nets when they need him. Marks needs to fix and retool this damn team next year. As much as I support the team, I just can’t see us beating the Bucks; no way and no how. They are just so dominant right now. No continuity, no consistency, no sense of urgency, we won’t get passed the second round like this abd KD’s comments more than affirm what I just said and KD is right. I think that was all built up frustration from Hardens on and off season coupled with Kyrie staying home instead of building chemistry with the big three. Good job Ky and Harden.


Letting Harden walk would be a nightmare situation after giving up all those assets. Instead of retooling, management would want to retain Harden at all costs. The problem is that if we do not win the chip this year, Harden will leave.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 41,404
And1: 13,979
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#124 » by Prokorov » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:20 pm

We need to come out with a lineup of:

X - Bembry - X - X - Claxton for the rest of the year.

fill in the other three guys as is available. Harden/Patty/KD or Harden/Kyrie/KD or Harden/Kyrie/Brown or Kyrie/Patty/KD whatever based on injury/rest.

Bembry is a glue guy who provides as good defense as brown with a touch more offense. Claxton opens the offense a ton more by being a rim rolling threat which makes the defense move and defend the paint. and defensivley we will always be solid with Bembry/Claxton + KD on the floor.

Props to LMA but when he is out there the spacing is negated because teams arent forced to switch and arent forced to defend the paint. when he misses (which is still 4 of 10 times) its a fastbreak every time. when he makes it, its always just 2 points. He either needs to make those pick and pops three pointers or come off the bench where those looks increase in value with starters sitting.

Harden | Mills | Bembry | KD |Claxton
[STAR] | Rookie | Brown | Johnson |LMA

when Kyrie plays


Harden | Kyrie | Bembry | KD |Claxton
[STAR] | Mills | [STAR]| Johnson |LMA

when Kyrie and Harris are back


Harden | Kyrie| Bembry | KD |Claxton
[STAR] | Mills | Harris | Johnson |LMA

sprinkle in Blake and brown where you can.
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 41,404
And1: 13,979
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#125 » by Prokorov » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:21 pm

Jay555 wrote:
KD35Netted wrote:I’m slowly getting convinced that KD will need a different star to team up with next season. Harden is constantly making lazy passes causing turnovers and Kyrie is not dependable to play for the Nets when they need him. Marks needs to fix and retool this damn team next year. As much as I support the team, I just can’t see us beating the Bucks; no way and no how. They are just so dominant right now. No continuity, no consistency, no sense of urgency, we won’t get passed the second round like this abd KD’s comments more than affirm what I just said and KD is right. I think that was all built up frustration from Hardens on and off season coupled with Kyrie staying home instead of building chemistry with the big three. Good job Ky and Harden.


Letting Harden walk would be a nightmare situation after giving up all those assets. Instead of retooling, management would want to retain Harden at all costs. The problem is that if we do not win the chip this year, Harden will leave.


Yeah you do whatever it takes to bring back harden.

our floor is 50 wins with KD/Harden
Jay555
Junior
Posts: 283
And1: 100
Joined: May 30, 2021

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#126 » by Jay555 » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:26 pm

Prokorov wrote:We need to come out with a lineup of:

X - Bembry - X - X - Claxton for the rest of the year.

fill in the other three guys as is available. Harden/Patty/KD or Harden/Kyrie/KD or Harden/Kyrie/Brown or Kyrie/Patty/KD whatever based on injury/rest.

Bembry is a glue guy who provides as good defense as brown with a touch more offense. Claxton opens the offense a ton more by being a rim rolling threat which makes the defense move and defend the paint. and defensivley we will always be solid with Bembry/Claxton + KD on the floor.

Props to LMA but when he is out there the spacing is negated because teams arent forced to switch and arent forced to defend the paint. when he misses (which is still 4 of 10 times) its a fastbreak every time. when he makes it, its always just 2 points. He either needs to make those pick and pops three pointers or come off the bench where those looks increase in value with starters sitting.

Harden | Mills | Bembry | KD |Claxton
[STAR] | Rookie | Brown | Johnson |LMA

when Kyrie plays


Harden | Kyrie | Bembry | KD |Claxton
[STAR] | Mills | [STAR]| Johnson |LMA

when Kyrie and Harris are back


Harden | Kyrie| Bembry | KD |Claxton
[STAR] | Mills | Harris | Johnson |LMA

sprinkle in Blake and brown where you can.



Agreed.
User avatar
gigantes
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,428
And1: 638
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
 

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#127 » by gigantes » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:46 pm

Jay555 wrote:Assuming Kyrie can play unrestrictedly, our only threat in the East is MIL. I like what I have seen from CHI but they are kinda young and Derozan is a known playoff choker who plays small in the playoffs.

Well, everyone has a belief system, just that I don't share yours. The other top four teams are right there with us, and it's hard to have much faith in Kyrie and Nash until we hit a different gear for a solid stretch.

Also, the problem with putting so much of the offense in a few players's hands, then overplaying them, is that it's a great formula for someone getting injured. And now you have a much different situation, like we experienced last year vs MIL.

Warriors are intriguing but they need Klay to be 70%-80% of what he was to top the West. Otherwise, I would not count on their supporting cast to come up big in the playoffs. Their flashy plays might be effective in regular seasons but playoff is a different animal when physicality is allowed which would work against their playing style.

Uh, no... no, they don't. They don't need Klay to be anything in particular. They're already crushing it as is. Also, you're off on the 'flashy plays' observation. Because no-- those aren't ESPN-style plays that tend to dry up in the playoffs. Those are 'flashy plays' that are based on hard effort, excellent movement, great fundamentals, and a nice set of long-armed young guys that fantastically complement their big two. The Dubs right now are an almost dreamy mix of veteran, excellent leadership (starting with the HC) to go with a talented young crew who perform their roles to a tee.

Not to mention, when your players and your system is crushing it on D (including Curry himself), that's a great sign of playoff success.

Also, lest we forget, the Warriors in fact made five straight finals and won three chips with their system of 'flashy plays.'
User avatar
Hello Brooklyn
RealGM
Posts: 12,438
And1: 8,764
Joined: Dec 24, 2012
   

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#128 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:48 pm

GTR11 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:If Mills is out our shooting falls off a cliff.

This is again why I was so pissed about the Shamet trade. No Kyrie/Harris. Then we have nothing in the back court.


Shamet only had one + month of good shooting while being complete liability on the half of the court. He was kaka for most part.

No one seen Joe getting hurt and missing this much time. If anything he was definition of iron man.

It's more than personal, it's coaching. Unlike KD Harden actually needs friendly system. We suck only because he was hurt and we still don't have damn system. We not going to freestyle our way to chip, only moron will buy into it. We got top talent, got more than enough, we just don't have system. I mean fo f*** sake our best players don't have a clue how to run offense while both on the court at the same time. Shamet not going to fix that.


He was 39% for the year. Even at his worst he was somebody you had to guard.

And what did we get back? Sharpe who doesn't play. And Carter who sucks.
HEAT33 wrote:Nets not even the best team in NY without Durant
User avatar
Hello Brooklyn
RealGM
Posts: 12,438
And1: 8,764
Joined: Dec 24, 2012
   

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#129 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:49 pm

Jay555 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Jay555 wrote:
That’s what Harden gives you when he’s gassed. I know full well as a former Rocket fan. You just can’t play him the whole 4th quarter.

Did you realise Harden played 40mins(4 games over 40 mins in a row) and Durant with 38mins? And we were on a near 8 man rotation with the 9th guy Blake logging 9 mins only, against a team that’s on their back to back. How about some mins for the rooks? Some mins for Cam or Edwards would not hurt. At least they bring some energy off the bench and are more hungry. Are they no longer gonna play now that everyone’s back?

Having said that, there is no excuse. But I do wonder if Nash is the right guy. I have been pretty lenient on him but have lost patience gradually. Harden’s after match comment does not sound right and I am afraid he’s gonna walk if we don’t win a chip this year.


All Harden had to do was pass it to KD.

Instead of taking a dumb 3. Thats just poor decision making. Not being tired.



What’s wrong with taking that 3? Durant was doubled team. It’s not like he took a contested 3. He was open. It just didnot go in. What if it went in? All these “post game analysis” would not have existed. What if KD took it and it didnot go in? I am fine with either Harden or KD taking the shots at the end because the other three cant shoot and KD can’t do it all by himself while being doubled team.

This is exactly what I meant. Harden was spent. If he had legs, he would/could have made the shot. If you watch the tape, he asked to be substituted twice in the 4th quarter and Nash said no. Mike ‘Dantoni is known to have short rotation but Harden was around 36-37 mins average under him. Nash takes it to another level. Without playing his stars for 40+ mins, he has no idea what to do. Maybe he doesnot coach after all. Anyways, rant over.


I'm not talking about that one.

I'm talking about the one where KD was yelling for the ball. And Harden took a contested 3 early in the shot clock.

So **** stupid. It was a bad shot.
HEAT33 wrote:Nets not even the best team in NY without Durant
User avatar
Hello Brooklyn
RealGM
Posts: 12,438
And1: 8,764
Joined: Dec 24, 2012
   

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#130 » by Hello Brooklyn » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:51 pm

Despite how pissed I am.

Lets not forget we had like 10 of these losses last year. And figured it out by the time the playoffs came around.

The more important thing is that Harden looks back. Late game execution we will figure out.
HEAT33 wrote:Nets not even the best team in NY without Durant
Jay555
Junior
Posts: 283
And1: 100
Joined: May 30, 2021

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#131 » by Jay555 » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:54 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Jay555 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
All Harden had to do was pass it to KD.

Instead of taking a dumb 3. Thats just poor decision making. Not being tired.



What’s wrong with taking that 3? Durant was doubled team. It’s not like he took a contested 3. He was open. It just didnot go in. What if it went in? All these “post game analysis” would not have existed. What if KD took it and it didnot go in? I am fine with either Harden or KD taking the shots at the end because the other three cant shoot and KD can’t do it all by himself while being doubled team.

This is exactly what I meant. Harden was spent. If he had legs, he would/could have made the shot. If you watch the tape, he asked to be substituted twice in the 4th quarter and Nash said no. Mike ‘Dantoni is known to have short rotation but Harden was around 36-37 mins average under him. Nash takes it to another level. Without playing his stars for 40+ mins, he has no idea what to do. Maybe he doesnot coach after all. Anyways, rant over.


I'm not talking about that one.

I'm talking about the one where KD was yelling for the ball. And Harden took a contested 3 early in the shot clock.

So **** stupid. It was a bad shot.


Ok whatever it is. It does not matter...
Jay555
Junior
Posts: 283
And1: 100
Joined: May 30, 2021

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#132 » by Jay555 » Sun Jan 2, 2022 9:56 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:Despite how pissed I am.

Lets not forget we had like 10 of these losses last year. And figured it out by the time the playoffs came around.

The more important thing is that Harden looks back. Late game execution we will figure out.


Yep. We need to pray for good health, luck and Nash figuring it out eventually..
User avatar
Prokorov
RealGM
Posts: 41,404
And1: 13,979
Joined: Dec 06, 2013
       

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#133 » by Prokorov » Mon Jan 3, 2022 12:05 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
GTR11 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:If Mills is out our shooting falls off a cliff.

This is again why I was so pissed about the Shamet trade. No Kyrie/Harris. Then we have nothing in the back court.


Shamet only had one + month of good shooting while being complete liability on the half of the court. He was kaka for most part.

No one seen Joe getting hurt and missing this much time. If anything he was definition of iron man.

It's more than personal, it's coaching. Unlike KD Harden actually needs friendly system. We suck only because he was hurt and we still don't have damn system. We not going to freestyle our way to chip, only moron will buy into it. We got top talent, got more than enough, we just don't have system. I mean fo f*** sake our best players don't have a clue how to run offense while both on the court at the same time. Shamet not going to fix that.


He was 39% for the year. Even at his worst he was somebody you had to guard.

And what did we get back? Sharpe who doesn't play. And Carter who sucks.


Shamet has been replaced with mills. that was the plan. and alot of it was salary motivated
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 41,734
And1: 17,065
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#134 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 3, 2022 1:54 am

Hard to be excited when Nash is so bad at this.

Hopefully Joe and Kyrie can help counter his bad coaching decisions
TheNetsFan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,805
And1: 993
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
   

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#135 » by TheNetsFan » Mon Jan 3, 2022 2:15 am

It could be the loss of D'Antoni, an overcompensation to a defensive focus or just trying to appease too many mercenaries. Last year we banked primarily on just outscoring opponents. This year we're playing bigger and with more defensive focus figuring the stars can always get there's. I think we've gone the wrong way. You need an offensive system to keep everyone involved when you have such high usage guys. Defense can be decent enough just with effort and commitment.
User avatar
Pablo Escobar
Head Coach
Posts: 6,623
And1: 3,483
Joined: May 13, 2009
Location: Medellín

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#136 » by Pablo Escobar » Mon Jan 3, 2022 3:23 am

Prokorov wrote:
Pablo Escobar wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:LMAO we deserve this.

IDK about you guys, but this is 100% on the players, especially our two stars. Yeah Harden gets the pretty stat line with the 30 point triple double, but did you see some of the lazy ass turnovers that him and KD were committing throughout that 4th quarter that kept giving the Clippers life? And these last two possessions man, WTF was Harden doing? Basically just milked the clock to 5 seconds and then had to put up a desperation 3.

The problem with James Harden is that he plays the same way regardless of the situation, and that's not a good thing. He needs to play quicker, play more decisively...and instead he holds the ball and milks the shot clock. Every. Single. Time.


This is what your superstars wanted. Nash is just a guy who calls a few timeouts and a few plays here and there. Kd and Kyrie let it be known that they don't "need a coach" and Harden has always been a ball dominant guy who doesn't contribute when he doesn't have it. Nash was chosen for a reason, and you guys will have to live with it for better or worse. Watching Harden play it seems like he's overthinking a lot on some possessions. On others he just does his thing and either gets a bucket/foul or kicks it to an open shooter.


Kyrie didnt want nash. he was upset black coaches got passed over. he wanted mike brown/lue. KD i dont think wanted nash, i think he was ok with it.

Marks passed over several better options, minorities, and women to give his friend a job and marks will have to wear a scarlet letter for that forever.

Kyrie/KD talking about they dont need a coach is more just realization nash is a manager, not a coach


Kyrie is always upset, Ty Lue would've been a good pick up. Kd and Nash are tight going back to his Warriors days. So all signs point to Kd signing off on the hire. I agree that the gm didn't do his due diligence but if Nash let it be known that he wanted to coach and Kd found out then it's difficult to interview people just for the sake of it. Kyrie and Kd were very disrespectful with that statement, you don't say that type of **** publicly especially to a hall of famer and 2x mvp. He has his shortcomings as a coach but his style of give it to one og the big 3 and clear out was clearly something that was favored by Kd and Kyrie.

Luckily you didn't hire Brown because he has no clue how to coach an offense, elite defensive coach though. Kyrie needs to get vaccinated though or else it;ll make things slightly more difficult to win a title. Especially if one of Patty/Harden get into foul trouble you lack another ball handler and Kyrie has one of it not the greatest handle ever.
Plata o Plomo?
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 41,734
And1: 17,065
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#137 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 3, 2022 3:38 am

TheNetsFan wrote:It could be the loss of D'Antoni, an overcompensation to a defensive focus or just trying to appease too many mercenaries. Last year we banked primarily on just outscoring opponents. This year we're playing bigger and with more defensive focus figuring the stars can always get there's. I think we've gone the wrong way. You need an offensive system to keep everyone involved when you have such high usage guys. Defense can be decent enough just with effort and commitment.



The defensive aspect is a huge reason why our record is so good, so I have no complaints with that. Our defense and rebounding is so much better.

I think Marks envisioned surrounding KD, Harden, Kyrie, Harris, Mills and LMA with defenders at every position. It was a good idea in theory but the vaccine mandate screwed us (I'm 200% in support of vaccine mandates, but the notion that unvaccinated players can come into Barclays and play but Kyrie can't is utterly stupid and i think NYC either needs to make this a zero tolerance policy or grant an exemption) and then Joe got hurt.

At full strength, this team should be unstoppable. Three nuclear weapons. Two elite 3 point shooter role players at SG/SF. A solid offensive big that can score inside and out. A switch everything defensive big that continues to thrive as a roll big finisher and rebounder/blocker. Three solid defenders at 2/3/4. Two veteran bigs that you can toss in for spot minutes at the 4/5 when needed. A bench full of energetic kids who have different skill sets.

This roster is DEEP. If we can get past the hurdles and get this group together and keep it that way, I think we can win despite Nash's rawness as a coach. But that's a big if.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 41,734
And1: 17,065
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: GT: Clippers @ Nets 1/1/22 - 7:30 

Post#138 » by MrDollarBills » Mon Jan 3, 2022 3:40 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
GTR11 wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:If Mills is out our shooting falls off a cliff.

This is again why I was so pissed about the Shamet trade. No Kyrie/Harris. Then we have nothing in the back court.


Shamet only had one + month of good shooting while being complete liability on the half of the court. He was kaka for most part.

No one seen Joe getting hurt and missing this much time. If anything he was definition of iron man.

It's more than personal, it's coaching. Unlike KD Harden actually needs friendly system. We suck only because he was hurt and we still don't have damn system. We not going to freestyle our way to chip, only moron will buy into it. We got top talent, got more than enough, we just don't have system. I mean fo f*** sake our best players don't have a clue how to run offense while both on the court at the same time. Shamet not going to fix that.


He was 39% for the year. Even at his worst he was somebody you had to guard.

And what did we get back? Sharpe who doesn't play. And Carter who sucks.


I think Sharpe will pay dividends down the road. Carter should be moved because The Duke is way better on both ends and this is without having a 3 point shot

I think Marks' plan was to stock up on prospects with upside now since we won't have control of our picks for awhile. Cam, Kess, Duke, and Sharpe all have nice upside. I think Kessler projects to be a solid two way SF.

Return to Brooklyn Nets