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GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST

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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#201 » by Pablo Escobar » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:06 am

Prokorov wrote:I'd have to image there are guys upset with Nash. Harden didn't try to hard to hide it after the loss to milwaukee. KD doesnt seem to care much about it. But Bruce Brown, Blake, the rookies, Harden... they cant be happy with Nash.


Why would Harden be mad? he gets all the isos in the world. He's playing at a borderline allstar level and seems to not give a fk out there.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#202 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:09 am

Pablo Escobar wrote:
Prokorov wrote:I'd have to image there are guys upset with Nash. Harden didn't try to hard to hide it after the loss to milwaukee. KD doesnt seem to care much about it. But Bruce Brown, Blake, the rookies, Harden... they cant be happy with Nash.


Why would Harden be mad? he gets all the isos in the world. He's playing at a borderline allstar level and seems to not give a fk out there.


Because the team is losing due to awful coaching.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#203 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:21 am

Nash blaming tired legs after playing KD 41 minutes following a 43 minute overtime game is absulutely riddiculous
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#204 » by CoachD » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:29 am

Prokorov wrote:
Pablo Escobar wrote:
Prokorov wrote:I'd have to image there are guys upset with Nash. Harden didn't try to hard to hide it after the loss to milwaukee. KD doesnt seem to care much about it. But Bruce Brown, Blake, the rookies, Harden... they cant be happy with Nash.


Why would Harden be mad? he gets all the isos in the world. He's playing at a borderline allstar level and seems to not give a fk out there.


Because the team is losing due to awful coaching.


Would another coach get guys who have historically never played much D suddenly play D?
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#205 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:33 am

CoachD wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Pablo Escobar wrote:
Why would Harden be mad? he gets all the isos in the world. He's playing at a borderline allstar level and seems to not give a fk out there.


Because the team is losing due to awful coaching.


Would another coach get guys who have historically never played much D suddenly play D?


Defense is not this teams issue. offense is.

Even last year our defense was good. it was our turnovers and rebounding that led to teams high scoring. we were top 6 last year in FG% allowed, TS% allowed, 3PT% allowed, FT allowed. this year we cleaned up some of rebounding/turnovers and our D is top 8.

Our offense is the major issue. not only would another coach have us at #1 and the best PP100 ever... but you could bring in a gym teacher from a random grammar school and do that too.

Nash isnt just bad, he is massively negative. he puts us in the best spot for teams to beat us. It is not hyperbole to call him the worst coach of the last 30 years
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#206 » by LOUiS-D » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:45 am

Prokorov wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:Durant and Kyrie bear responsibility for this **** too.

We had a perfectly good coach in Kenny Atkinson. And they threw him under the bus. For what???

To install this bumbling idiot.

I defended Nash plenty in the past. I'm done. He is the reason we suck. This team is CLUELESS.


Kyrie wasnt even with the team when the atkinson thing blew up. nor was KD. that was about multiple guys but the ring leaders were Dinwiddie and DJ. they were upset with undefined roles. Kyrie/KD didnt object. the book lays it out. they didnt have their hands in that.

Kyrie didnt want nash. he wasnt happy black candidates got passed up. KD didnt hand pick nash. he was good with him because he knew he wouldnt upset the flow of things.

at the end of the day marks passed up a minimum of a dozen+ more qualified coaches, several more qualified minority coaches, and 1-2 more qualified female coaches.

Nash is on Marks.

Imagine giving a single f*** what DJ thinks and even Din for that matter in retrospect.

Kidd, now Nash. Htf did we make this mistake twice.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#207 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:32 am

Told yall that we were going to lose this game.

We are going to lose to the Bulls by 30+ points on Wednesday. This team is completely cooked.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#208 » by HardenGoat » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:58 pm

The fact we were winning games right up to the point we announced Kyrie was coming back then start losing to lesser adversaries speaks volumes. Something is up. Like a trade situation or a pecking order or likely both. There’s a rift going on. I bet it involves trading Kyrie and some ultimatum.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#209 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:00 pm

HardenGoat wrote:The fact we were winning games right up to the point we announced Kyrie was coming back then start losing to lesser adversaries speaks volumes. Something is up. Like a trade situation or a pecking order or likely both. There’s a rift going on.



Yeah. I didn't want to point to this but the losing coincided with Kyrie's return. Something is going on behind the scenes.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#210 » by HardenGoat » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:04 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
HardenGoat wrote:The fact we were winning games right up to the point we announced Kyrie was coming back then start losing to lesser adversaries speaks volumes. Something is up. Like a trade situation or a pecking order or likely both. There’s a rift going on.



Yeah. I didn't want to point to this but the losing coincided with Kyrie's return. Something is going on behind the scenes.

I bet Harden spoke up and gave an ultimatum. He wants to win and wants to get the pieces he needs otherwise he’s going to play in a protective mode which he has been doing all year. I bet it started right at the beginning and now it’s come to a head. The trade deadline approaching and the sudden decline also speaks volumes. I bet he himself asked out before the deadline if something doesn’t unfold. Him sitting out with an “injury” in a Kyrie game is further evidence in my mind.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#211 » by NetsWorld » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:15 pm

HardenGoat wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
HardenGoat wrote:The fact we were winning games right up to the point we announced Kyrie was coming back then start losing to lesser adversaries speaks volumes. Something is up. Like a trade situation or a pecking order or likely both. There’s a rift going on.



Yeah. I didn't want to point to this but the losing coincided with Kyrie's return. Something is going on behind the scenes.

I bet Harden spoke up and gave an ultimatum. He wants to win and wants to get the pieces he needs otherwise he’s going to play in a protective mode which he has been doing all year. I bet it started right at the beginning and now it’s come to a head. The trade deadline approaching and the sudden decline also speaks volumes. I bet he himself asked out before the deadline if something doesn’t unfold. Him sitting out with an “injury” in a Kyrie game is further evidence in my mind.


If you watch the Indy game, notice how KD sort of tells Harden to get out of Kyrie's way too. Not sure what is going to happen but if a trade is up, I will say that Harden is far more reliable in terms of "playing" games as opposed to sitting them and not being sure game to game if he will be available. It's becoming clear KD doesn't care about rings anymore nor does Kyrie. I don't see the Nets trading Kyrie but I hope if what you are saying is correct, that these guys are able to amend it quick. I felt like KD treated Harden like an after thought when he started laughing like a school girl about Kyrie returning.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#212 » by CoachD » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:52 pm

Prokorov wrote:
CoachD wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Because the team is losing due to awful coaching.


Would another coach get guys who have historically never played much D suddenly play D?


Defense is not this teams issue. offense is.

Even last year our defense was good. it was our turnovers and rebounding that led to teams high scoring. we were top 6 last year in FG% allowed, TS% allowed, 3PT% allowed, FT allowed. this year we cleaned up some of rebounding/turnovers and our D is top 8.

Our offense is the major issue. not only would another coach have us at #1 and the best PP100 ever... but you could bring in a gym teacher from a random grammar school and do that too.

Nash isnt just bad, he is massively negative. he puts us in the best spot for teams to beat us. It is not hyperbole to call him the worst coach of the last 30 years


I understand that, but also respectfully disagree. While the Nets team defense numbers look good holistically ... over the last 10 games, they're 19th I the league (tied with Detroit).

Points off turnovers during the same 10 game span... Brooklyn is 25th

Like Hollinger and so many have said.. the fluidity of of lineups this season makes it so that season stats are deceiving and you really need to look at recent segments of games.

If the Nets were not just getting more stops, but generating turnovers, their offense would seem like a non issue.... even if the half court struggled.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#213 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:18 pm

LOUiS-D wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:Durant and Kyrie bear responsibility for this **** too.

We had a perfectly good coach in Kenny Atkinson. And they threw him under the bus. For what???

To install this bumbling idiot.

I defended Nash plenty in the past. I'm done. He is the reason we suck. This team is CLUELESS.


Kyrie wasnt even with the team when the atkinson thing blew up. nor was KD. that was about multiple guys but the ring leaders were Dinwiddie and DJ. they were upset with undefined roles. Kyrie/KD didnt object. the book lays it out. they didnt have their hands in that.

Kyrie didnt want nash. he wasnt happy black candidates got passed up. KD didnt hand pick nash. he was good with him because he knew he wouldnt upset the flow of things.

at the end of the day marks passed up a minimum of a dozen+ more qualified coaches, several more qualified minority coaches, and 1-2 more qualified female coaches.

Nash is on Marks.

Imagine giving a single f*** what DJ thinks and even Din for that matter in retrospect.

Kidd, now Nash. Htf did we make this mistake twice.


Those were the ringleaders, but there was pretty unanimous frustration with Atkinsons lack of defined roles and the stars had no attachment to him.

He was the right guy for the rebuild, not for title run. They needed someone whose been there.

Ty Lue, Mike Brown...
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#214 » by Fallout_3 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:36 pm

Some of Harden's best games came just after Kyrie announce.

And we are plenty of embarrassing loses before: Bucks, Chicago, Warriors, Suns. It's not something new.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#215 » by TheNetsFan » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:37 pm

Prokorov wrote:
LOUiS-D wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Kyrie wasnt even with the team when the atkinson thing blew up. nor was KD. that was about multiple guys but the ring leaders were Dinwiddie and DJ. they were upset with undefined roles. Kyrie/KD didnt object. the book lays it out. they didnt have their hands in that.

Kyrie didnt want nash. he wasnt happy black candidates got passed up. KD didnt hand pick nash. he was good with him because he knew he wouldnt upset the flow of things.

at the end of the day marks passed up a minimum of a dozen+ more qualified coaches, several more qualified minority coaches, and 1-2 more qualified female coaches.

Nash is on Marks.

Imagine giving a single f*** what DJ thinks and even Din for that matter in retrospect.

Kidd, now Nash. Htf did we make this mistake twice.


Those were the ringleaders, but there was pretty unanimous frustration with Atkinsons lack of defined roles and the stars had no attachment to him.

He was the right guy for the rebuild, not for title run. They needed someone whose been there.

Ty Lue, Mike Brown...

The funny thing is the issue those players had with Kenny is the exact opposite of what we're complaining about now. Kenny was system oriented. The ball had to move & everybody had a green light to take the open shot. The true stars will always get theirs, but role players like DJ & Dinwiddie wanted to be next in the pecking order. Players were prioritizing touches and stats over the team and system. Now, we fans are complaining over the lack of system & ball movement.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#216 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:37 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
HardenGoat wrote:The fact we were winning games right up to the point we announced Kyrie was coming back then start losing to lesser adversaries speaks volumes. Something is up. Like a trade situation or a pecking order or likely both. There’s a rift going on.



Yeah. I didn't want to point to this but the losing coincided with Kyrie's return. Something is going on behind the scenes.


whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa... I'm sorry, but are we really using this as some kind of excuse for our coaching and play? Let me breakdown the timeline for you:

12/15: Shams reports Kyrie is back, Nets confirm a day or so later.
12/16: Nets beat the 76ers
12/18: Nets lose to Magic (starters: Mills, Galloway, Thomas, Edwards, Blake)
12/25: Nets beat lakers
12/27: Nets blowout clippers

*** So nearly 2 weeks after announcement Kyrie is back Nets are 3-1 with only loss coming in game with gleaguers ***


12/30: Nets blow lead to Sixers, loss
1/1: Nets blow lead to Clippers, loss
1/3: Grizz stomp nets, loss
1/5: Kyrie returns, powers nets to come from behind win
1/7: Bucks stop nets, loss
1/9: Nets blow big lead to spurs, hold on to win in OT
1/10: Nets suffer embarrassing loss to blazers on road w/ Kyrie

So for 4 games and 3 quarters kyrie was a non issue... then the guys huddled and said "man, kyrie is distracting us but not being all in, no way we can hang on to this big lead. we have to fold.. cause.. kyrie ya know"

then vs clips same thing. Kyrie not an issue for 42 minutes as we are up 13 with 6 to go, but his distraction has us blow that lead to the james ennis lead clippers?

4-7 in 11 games since Kyrie returned. lets look at the prior 10 games to kyries annoucement:

6-4 with losses to the rockets and barely squawking by a decimated raps team in OT after blowing a lead and barely getting by the Knicks after again collapsing late.

Big picture with or without Kyrie we are 10-10 in our last 20 games with losses to:

Portland (no dame/CJ/Nance/Powell)
Clippers (No George, Kawahi, Jackson, Morris)
Rockets
Magic

and barely scraped by decimated Raps (OT), decimated Spurs (OT), Decimated Wolves, and Knicks.

If we have internal issues because of Kyrie, it would have started long before his part time return. Their are more obvious more glaring reasons. Our offense has absolutely tanked and we are dead last in threes since Harris got hurt. Nash' inability to generate offense without 2 stars + 2 elite role floor spacers at all times has turned us into a bad offense. Nash is so inept and generating offense (Again this is a guy with KD/Harden) that he has publically stated postgame after postgame that this team needs to "win with defense"

I dont care if we lack shooters. if you cant be a top 10 offense with 40 minutes of KD/Harden/Mlls you need to let someone else take charge of things.
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#217 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:43 pm

HardenGoat wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
HardenGoat wrote:The fact we were winning games right up to the point we announced Kyrie was coming back then start losing to lesser adversaries speaks volumes. Something is up. Like a trade situation or a pecking order or likely both. There’s a rift going on.



Yeah. I didn't want to point to this but the losing coincided with Kyrie's return. Something is going on behind the scenes.

I bet Harden spoke up and gave an ultimatum. He wants to win and wants to get the pieces he needs otherwise he’s going to play in a protective mode which he has been doing all year. I bet it started right at the beginning and now it’s come to a head. The trade deadline approaching and the sudden decline also speaks volumes. I bet he himself asked out before the deadline if something doesn’t unfold. Him sitting out with an “injury” in a Kyrie game is further evidence in my mind.


The reality doesnt match the narrative.

-our issued started when Harris got injured (10-10 since, last in threes, offense went from #7 to #13)
-Harden/Nash have consistently said "no spacing" in losses since then
-Harden came in either still needing to work back into shape or back from injury or both, thats clear. the idea he faked it is absurd
-Harden has been one of if not the most vocal supporter of Kyrie
-There has been no sudden delcine for Harden. December was his best month, he has gotten better each month
-His "injury" likely has more to do with playing 40 mpg, having an OT game and 3000 mile flight.

If you want to trash Kyrie for not getting vaccinated and be a full time player that is certainly a fair stance to take as a fan. But lets not pretend like our 5 biggest issues arent things that have nothing to do with Kyrie. Blowing a 13 point lead at home to a clippers team starting James Ennis who just played the night before vs the knicks has nothing to do with anything Kyrie.

This team has played dog turd basketball for 6 straight weeks
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#218 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:49 pm

CoachD wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
CoachD wrote:
Would another coach get guys who have historically never played much D suddenly play D?


Defense is not this teams issue. offense is.

Even last year our defense was good. it was our turnovers and rebounding that led to teams high scoring. we were top 6 last year in FG% allowed, TS% allowed, 3PT% allowed, FT allowed. this year we cleaned up some of rebounding/turnovers and our D is top 8.

Our offense is the major issue. not only would another coach have us at #1 and the best PP100 ever... but you could bring in a gym teacher from a random grammar school and do that too.

Nash isnt just bad, he is massively negative. he puts us in the best spot for teams to beat us. It is not hyperbole to call him the worst coach of the last 30 years


I understand that, but also respectfully disagree. While the Nets team defense numbers look good holistically ... over the last 10 games, they're 19th I the league (tied with Detroit).

Points off turnovers during the same 10 game span... Brooklyn is 25th

Like Hollinger and so many have said.. the fluidity of of lineups this season makes it so that season stats are deceiving and you really need to look at recent segments of games.

If the Nets were not just getting more stops, but generating turnovers, their offense would seem like a non issue.... even if the half court struggled.


And our offense over that same 10 game span is... even worse.. Also, again our defense suffers because of how bad our offense is. When the opponent never has to take it out under their own basket or can run out because of no paint shot attempt or in general can stand sitll on D and not work, they are going to have a much easier time offensively.

Nets defense, at its low point this year, has been at worst average. our offense has been abysmal. propped up really because of unsustainable mid range efficiecy early on.

No one who watches every Nets game would think defense is a problem or anywhere even remotely close to as big of a problem as our offense.

Defense is maybe 17th or 18th if you listed all our issues with the 1st 10+ being offensive or turnover related
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#219 » by Prokorov » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:54 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
LOUiS-D wrote:Imagine giving a single f*** what DJ thinks and even Din for that matter in retrospect.

Kidd, now Nash. Htf did we make this mistake twice.


Those were the ringleaders, but there was pretty unanimous frustration with Atkinsons lack of defined roles and the stars had no attachment to him.

He was the right guy for the rebuild, not for title run. They needed someone whose been there.

Ty Lue, Mike Brown...

The funny thing is the issue those players had with Kenny is the exact opposite of what we're complaining about now. Kenny was system oriented. The ball had to move & everybody had a green light to take the open shot. The true stars will always get theirs, but role players like DJ & Dinwiddie wanted to be next in the pecking order. Players were prioritizing touches and stats over the team and system. Now, we fans are complaining over the lack of system & ball movement.


2 very different teams. KD was rehabbing, Kyrie out. We hadn't' added harden yet. That team needed someone to grind them and hold them accountable and generate points via system

KD/Kyrie/Harden Nets dont need a developmental hardo (i love kenny by the way, but he wasnt suited to coach stars) dictating their improvement plans. those guys are ultra hard workers with their own routines. They needed a vet player coach. but they needed one who was actually a coach too. we need iso. we need tons of iso. but we also need adjustments and game plannign to attack opponents weak links, etc. Nash is not capable.

I dont need us to run a motion offense or 30 set plays a game. But I do need the basics like use KDs gravity to get guys open and to hunt slow big defenders in switches
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Re: GT: Nets @ Trail Blazers- 1/10- 10:00 PM EST 

Post#220 » by TheNetsFan » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:58 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
HardenGoat wrote:The fact we were winning games right up to the point we announced Kyrie was coming back then start losing to lesser adversaries speaks volumes. Something is up. Like a trade situation or a pecking order or likely both. There’s a rift going on.

...

If we have internal issues because of Kyrie, it would have started long before his part time return. Their are more obvious more glaring reasons. Our offense has absolutely tanked and we are dead last in threes since Harris got hurt. Nash' inability to generate offense without 2 stars + 2 elite role floor spacers at all times has turned us into a bad offense. Nash is so inept and generating offense (Again this is a guy with KD/Harden) that he has publically stated postgame after postgame that this team needs to "win with defense"

I dont care if we lack shooters. if you cant be a top 10 offense with 40 minutes of KD/Harden/Mlls you need to let someone else take charge of things.

I agree. This is not on Kyrie's return. It's about a lack of identity, a lack of passion & lack of system. If the 3 isn't falling, you have to manufacture points in other ways: post-ups, transition, etc. Harden & KD can't take their sweet time walking the ball up & then just hoisting up a 3 when they're having an off shooting night. There's no movement, no urgency, too many ill-advised heat checks after 2 straight baskets. We're just playing lazy basketball.

Will these guys be able to shift to a higher gear late in the season & in the playoffs? Maybe. I have faith KD can. I have my doubts with Harden. I do fear that it won't be easy for the role players to get re-engaged after a season of dozing off in the corners.

We're going through the motions like it's a no defense allowed all-star game, and are getting frazzled when the other team plays aggressive. Shooters or not, we need guys like Brown, Bembry & Mills to be disruptive & push the pace. We have 3 historically good scorers plus Harris & Mills. We should be able to outscore teams and thus want to maximize the number of possessions in a game. Instead, we're running the basketball equivalent of a ground and pound offense instead of trying to blow teams away.

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