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Hey guys. Sixers fan here. Thought I’d stop by to give you some info on ben Simmons from my perspective as a fan. I was reading through these boards and it made me smile because it’s the same exercise us Sixers fans have done the last 5 years. Ben Simmons is a different player in a vacuum than he actually is in reality. And I wanted to touch on that. Also wanted to bring up some points positive and negative about his game

Defense—can’t say anything negative here. He is an incredible defender. 1-4 he can guard anybody. He’s great on ball and Even better off ball. His instincts are second to none there. What I always thought made him special is he can get right in the grill or guys all game but does not foul. He’s rarely ever in foul trouble. He is quick enough to guard small guards and big enough to handle bigs. One thing tho I will touch on is him playing the 5. I’ve seen various media people saying he should play as the 5 for the nets. Imo that would be a huge waste of his talents. He’s a special defender guarding 1-4. However at the 5 he’s just ok. He’s not a good rim protector. He can play it for stretches but any prolonged time imo will just be a waste of his talents.

Pg ability— here I just have to be Frank. He is not a pg. was never a pg. and will never be a pg. this was the biggest mistake we made as a franchise making him “pg”. It’s where the coddling started and never stopped. He views himself as a pg so we coddled by putting the label on him. However he does not play pg during games. It’s actually kind of funny what we did with him. We had him bring the ball up all the time. But as soon as he crossed half court he’d pass it off and run to the dunker spot. So any thoughts of you using him as a pg just throw that out the window. Durant is more of a pg than he is. His half court passing is also nothing special. He makes the simple pass and just about it. He showed incredible passing vision in summer league but never really replicated that in the nba.

Transition offense—this aside from defense is where he’s going to provide you the most help. He’s incredible in this area. He is a good and willing rebounder. And loves to run when he gets the ball. He imo is the fastest straight line dribbler in nba. He can go coast to coast in a flash. While not being a special passer in half court he is a special passer in transition. He can find open guys on 3s or in paint better than anyone when he’s in the open court

Draymond green role—this is where him being a better player in a vacuum than real life comes into play. Sure in a vacuum he can be your draymond green player. However that’s not his game. He’s never embraced that part in his game. Sure he might change now but we’ve tried to turn him into that for years and he always fought back against it. He isn’t good at setting screens. He will not pop cause he won’t shoot and teams won’t respect it. He also is not a good roller. He just doesn’t do any of that. In terms of being a passer at the top of the key. Also will be useless for you because Durant and kyrie are not running around screens. The problem with ben on offense is he literally hides in the dunker spot. He doesn’t do anything. He doesn’t move without the ball. He does not shoot if he’s open. And is a pretty bad finisher inside unless it’s a dunk. He’s going to have to completely revamp his game if he is to succeed in the draymond role.

Playoff performances—so I read on here about how he was being scapegoated. I can’t stress enough how that isn’t true. Joel embiids playoff woes came into play. And I won’t argue he’s had his struggles. But the difference is huge. At least embiid goes out swinging and tries. Ben Simmons literally has gone into shells. Refusing to shoot or be a part of the offense. That’s the problem. His shot attempts decrease in post season. And it’s his own doing. That’s actually what causes embiid to play worse because now he’s pulling a larger load since ben just disappears. No one would be mad at ben if he went 2/15 from the field. The problem is he’s not even shooting. It’s actually quite bizarre

Free throws and aggressiveness—-bens best stretches in his career are when he’s aggressive. It’s always mind boggling that he doesn’t do that more often. But there’s a direct correlation between his free throws and his aggression. I always joke his first trip to the line is the most important point in the whole basketball game. He’s a hot and cold free throw shooter. He’ll have stretches where he makes like 18/20 free throws. But then have stretches where he makes 4/20. When he’s on fire from the line he is aggressive as can be. When he’s cold from the line he loses all aggression and purposely avoids contact. It’s definitely mental with him. The reason hack a ben works so much because if he starts missing them he goes into a complete shell rest of game

Final thoughts—I think this is the perfect scenario for ben. He doesn’t have the pressure of being a relied upon half court player and can do stuff he’s best at. But for you guys to truly take the next step he’s going to have to change his game. And as you guys may know he is stubborn. He famously said “I am who I am” when he was asked why he hasn’t worked on his 3 pointers. If he’s able to buy in and change his game you guys can be scary good. But again that’s just him in a vacuum vs reality

Welcome, and thank you for the insight.

I agree with you on the points about him being a small ball 5 on defense. It kinda limits his potential there because he's just average protecting the rim and being low man. However, on offense he's had his best scoring games as a 5. I don't know if we'll ever get the best of both worlds with Simmons, but I think there's more promise here than for which you give credit.

On the Draymond comparison, point well taken. Yeah, in my outsider POV Ben behaves as if it is beneath him to do grunt work for the guards. Unfortunately for us and FORTUNATELY for Ben, we don't utilize our bigmen to set hard screens as much as we probably should. We run a ton of DHO, and use our 4's to exploit advantages in the short roll when teams blitz out guards. This is where I think Ben translates best in our half court offense.

I've been thinking about doing a similar thread on the Sixers board about Harden. I'm about the most optimistic guy on this forum about James, both in the short- and long- term. Do you think it would be well received?

ecuhus1981 wrote:I agree with you on the points about him being a small ball 5 on defense. It kinda limits his potential there because he's just average protecting the rim and being low man. However, on offense he's had his best scoring games as a 5. I don't know if we'll ever get the best of both worlds with Simmons, but I think there's more promise here than for which you give credit.

Which is why I think Blake is probably the better fit next to him. Blake is passable as a 4 offensively, especially with his shot seemingly coming back (11 for 30 from 3 in his past 10 games) and willing to bang as a 5 defensively. Drummond, Aldridge and Claxton pretty much have to be the offensive 5. We'll see if Nash gives it a try. I think he's set on Drummond and Aldridge.

ecuhus1981 wrote:Welcome, and thank you for the insight.

I agree with you on the points about him being a small ball 5 on defense. It kinda limits his potential there because he's just average protecting the rim and being low man. However, on offense he's had his best scoring games as a 5. I don't know if we'll ever get the best of both worlds with Simmons, but I think there's more promise here than for which you give credit.

On the Draymond comparison, point well taken. Yeah, in my outsider POV Ben behaves as if it is beneath him to do grunt work for the guards. Unfortunately for us and FORTUNATELY for Ben, we don't utilize our bigmen to set hard screens as much as we probably should. We run a ton of DHO, and use our 4's to exploit advantages in the short roll when teams blitz out guards. This is where I think Ben translates best in our half court offense.

I've been thinking about doing a similar thread on the Sixers board about Harden. I'm about the most optimistic guy on this forum about James, both in the short- and long- term. Do you think it would be well received?

Ya man absolutely definitely post something like that. Us Sixers fans would appreciate it

ecuhus1981 wrote:Welcome, and thank you for the insight.

I agree with you on the points about him being a small ball 5 on defense. It kinda limits his potential there because he's just average protecting the rim and being low man. However, on offense he's had his best scoring games as a 5. I don't know if we'll ever get the best of both worlds with Simmons, but I think there's more promise here than for which you give credit.

On the Draymond comparison, point well taken. Yeah, in my outsider POV Ben behaves as if it is beneath him to do grunt work for the guards. Unfortunately for us and FORTUNATELY for Ben, we don't utilize our bigmen to set hard screens as much as we probably should. We run a ton of DHO, and use our 4's to exploit advantages in the short roll when teams blitz out guards. This is where I think Ben translates best in our half court offense.

I've been thinking about doing a similar thread on the Sixers board about Harden. I'm about the most optimistic guy on this forum about James, both in the short- and long- term. Do you think it would be well received?

So the DHO part is where ben is going to have to change. His issue is his lack of aggression as pointed out earlier. So in a vacuum yes he should be good in that scenario but too many times he’s just passive. He’ll get the ball and either avoid contact or just immediately kick it out. It’s really just frustrating to watch because there are times he is aggressive and you’re thinking why doesn’t he do that all the time.

The thing with Ben is he is in a spot now that can much more easily absorb his flaws:

1) He can be a negative on offense here. We have 2 elite shot creators and 3 elite floor spacers. We CURRENTLY play with 3 non-shooters regularly and often start 3 non-shooters. Last year we started brown and blake in playoff games vs the bucks. Having 1 non-shooter in Ben or even one negative who doesnt just not shoot but is afraid or timid or whatever wont be a huge impact. We already are overcoming as bad/worse then ben.

2) His weirdness/ego/attitude is more of a norm here then the exception. It doesnt get weirded then Kyrie. And both KD/Kyrie routinely get targeted by the media. Ben is more insulated in those regards and Nash's only purpose as coach is to manage egos and be overly star friendly... to a fault.

Ben can just be an elite defensive role player who scores/facilitates in transition. he can be a negative on offense here and thats ok.

JewKobe wrote:Hey guys. Sixers fan here. Thought I’d stop by to give you some info on ben Simmons from my perspective as a fan. I was reading through these boards and it made me smile because it’s the same exercise us Sixers fans have done the last 5 years. Ben Simmons is a different player in a vacuum than he actually is in reality. And I wanted to touch on that. Also wanted to bring up some points positive and negative about his game

Defense—can’t say anything negative here. He is an incredible defender. 1-4 he can guard anybody. He’s great on ball and Even better off ball. His instincts are second to none there. What I always thought made him special is he can get right in the grill or guys all game but does not foul. He’s rarely ever in foul trouble. He is quick enough to guard small guards and big enough to handle bigs. One thing tho I will touch on is him playing the 5. I’ve seen various media people saying he should play as the 5 for the nets. Imo that would be a huge waste of his talents. He’s a special defender guarding 1-4. However at the 5 he’s just ok. He’s not a good rim protector. He can play it for stretches but any prolonged time imo will just be a waste of his talents.

Pg ability— here I just have to be Frank. He is not a pg. was never a pg. and will never be a pg. this was the biggest mistake we made as a franchise making him “pg”. It’s where the coddling started and never stopped. He views himself as a pg so we coddled by putting the label on him. However he does not play pg during games. It’s actually kind of funny what we did with him. We had him bring the ball up all the time. But as soon as he crossed half court he’d pass it off and run to the dunker spot. So any thoughts of you using him as a pg just throw that out the window. Durant is more of a pg than he is. His half court passing is also nothing special. He makes the simple pass and just about it. He showed incredible passing vision in summer league but never really replicated that in the nba.

Transition offense—this aside from defense is where he’s going to provide you the most help. He’s incredible in this area. He is a good and willing rebounder. And loves to run when he gets the ball. He imo is the fastest straight line dribbler in nba. He can go coast to coast in a flash. While not being a special passer in half court he is a special passer in transition. He can find open guys on 3s or in paint better than anyone when he’s in the open court

Draymond green role—this is where him being a better player in a vacuum than real life comes into play. Sure in a vacuum he can be your draymond green player. However that’s not his game. He’s never embraced that part in his game. Sure he might change now but we’ve tried to turn him into that for years and he always fought back against it. He isn’t good at setting screens. He will not pop cause he won’t shoot and teams won’t respect it. He also is not a good roller. He just doesn’t do any of that. In terms of being a passer at the top of the key. Also will be useless for you because Durant and kyrie are not running around screens. The problem with ben on offense is he literally hides in the dunker spot. He doesn’t do anything. He doesn’t move without the ball. He does not shoot if he’s open. And is a pretty bad finisher inside unless it’s a dunk. He’s going to have to completely revamp his game if he is to succeed in the draymond role.

Playoff performances—so I read on here about how he was being scapegoated. I can’t stress enough how that isn’t true. Joel embiids playoff woes came into play. And I won’t argue he’s had his struggles. But the difference is huge. At least embiid goes out swinging and tries. Ben Simmons literally has gone into shells. Refusing to shoot or be a part of the offense. That’s the problem. His shot attempts decrease in post season. And it’s his own doing. That’s actually what causes embiid to play worse because now he’s pulling a larger load since ben just disappears. No one would be mad at ben if he went 2/15 from the field. The problem is he’s not even shooting. It’s actually quite bizarre

Free throws and aggressiveness—-bens best stretches in his career are when he’s aggressive. It’s always mind boggling that he doesn’t do that more often. But there’s a direct correlation between his free throws and his aggression. I always joke his first trip to the line is the most important point in the whole basketball game. He’s a hot and cold free throw shooter. He’ll have stretches where he makes like 18/20 free throws. But then have stretches where he makes 4/20. When he’s on fire from the line he is aggressive as can be. When he’s cold from the line he loses all aggression and purposely avoids contact. It’s definitely mental with him. The reason hack a ben works so much because if he starts missing them he goes into a complete shell rest of game

Final thoughts—I think this is the perfect scenario for ben. He doesn’t have the pressure of being a relied upon half court player and can do stuff he’s best at. But for you guys to truly take the next step he’s going to have to change his game. And as you guys may know he is stubborn. He famously said “I am who I am” when he was asked why he hasn’t worked on his 3 pointers. If he’s able to buy in and change his game you guys can be scary good. But again that’s just him in a vacuum vs reality

Thank you for this analysis. The two things that make me excited about Ben being here are: defense and him in transition. I think having a 4 man that can push and pass/finish and transition is going to open our offense up.

I don't think we should coddle Ben. But i think we need to have him focus on what he does well. The only area i worry about is his FT shooting and his mental health issues. I watched that playoff series where Ben was literally running from the ball. That was not normal behavior and i hope he really has been in therapy to help him overcome his anxiety issues.

JewKobe wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:Welcome, and thank you for the insight.

I agree with you on the points about him being a small ball 5 on defense. It kinda limits his potential there because he's just average protecting the rim and being low man. However, on offense he's had his best scoring games as a 5. I don't know if we'll ever get the best of both worlds with Simmons, but I think there's more promise here than for which you give credit.

On the Draymond comparison, point well taken. Yeah, in my outsider POV Ben behaves as if it is beneath him to do grunt work for the guards. Unfortunately for us and FORTUNATELY for Ben, we don't utilize our bigmen to set hard screens as much as we probably should. We run a ton of DHO, and use our 4's to exploit advantages in the short roll when teams blitz out guards. This is where I think Ben translates best in our half court offense.

I've been thinking about doing a similar thread on the Sixers board about Harden. I'm about the most optimistic guy on this forum about James, both in the short- and long- term. Do you think it would be well received?

Ya man absolutely definitely post something like that. Us Sixers fans would appreciate it

I like James. When he's all in and coached up he's an MVP level player. However, i think his lifestyle and age is starting to catch up with him +, the refs officiate him terribly now because he gets hammered at the rim constantly with no calls.

My main criticism of 2022 Harden? Slowness. Everything he does is slow now. He brings the ball up at a snail's pace. By the time he gets the team into their set offensively, it's 14 seconds or less on the clock and he overdribbles to probe and find an assist which usually results in a contested shot either from him or the person he finds to bail him out with 3 secs left on the clock.

Hopefully by having an actual coach in Doc and a MVP level big like Embiid he will clean up what he was doing poorly here but i dunno. I'm interested to see how this goes for you guys. I think Harden will be pretty motivated though.

Also, his perimeter defense is non existent at this point. Fair warning

JewKobe wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:Welcome, and thank you for the insight.

I agree with you on the points about him being a small ball 5 on defense. It kinda limits his potential there because he's just average protecting the rim and being low man. However, on offense he's had his best scoring games as a 5. I don't know if we'll ever get the best of both worlds with Simmons, but I think there's more promise here than for which you give credit.

On the Draymond comparison, point well taken. Yeah, in my outsider POV Ben behaves as if it is beneath him to do grunt work for the guards. Unfortunately for us and FORTUNATELY for Ben, we don't utilize our bigmen to set hard screens as much as we probably should. We run a ton of DHO, and use our 4's to exploit advantages in the short roll when teams blitz out guards. This is where I think Ben translates best in our half court offense.

I've been thinking about doing a similar thread on the Sixers board about Harden. I'm about the most optimistic guy on this forum about James, both in the short- and long- term. Do you think it would be well received?

Ya man absolutely definitely post something like that. Us Sixers fans would appreciate it

To preface everything to follow on Harden, he is still a very good player right now. He was a legit all-star reserve. So while some criticism may sound harsh, it is on the drop off from where he was last year (MVP level) to now,... not that he is some washed up scrub.

This year's Harden is clearly 1.5 steps slower then last year. His quickness is fine, he consistently gets that first step and crosses his man up. but his speed is gone and his explosiveness jumping/at the rim is gone. Early on the officiating may have hurt him but he adjusted to that and while the refs still clearly target him, the big issue on his drives isnt the no-calls, it is the lack of ability to finish.

His jumper has also been way off. percentage wise it may not show as drastic, but alot of misses are negated by fouls. I had worried/speculated earlier this year teams will just advise to give him the stepback and live with the result, because he was shooting so poorly.

Some say he was dogging it. some say he was unhappy. some say he lost a step.

To me, he just looks injured. he had a december month he looked pretty good again but after Nash going 38 mpg he was looking slow again. people said the "injury" was just dogging it to get traded but he is still out with it. He re-aggrivated it 3 times last year and played on it badly hurt vs. milwaukee. had no offseason cause of rehab and clearly aggrivated it 2 times this year.

It either never really healed or is just chronic. Hopefully the former and he can get healthy again. I wanted to keep him this year and trade him in the offseason/risk losing him for nothing. because i think healthy this year he is still an MVP and we'd be title favorites. But beyond this year a long term deal terrifies me.

Him not taking the option would worry me as a philly fan. it makes it almost a lock he gets 4-5 year deal in the offseason and at 33-34 years old, never a guy who came into camp in shape, and maybe with this hammy being a long term thing, id worry that he is just an all-star reserve here on out... or 35-38 years old worse then that.

I have no ill will towards harden. things change and that can change your plans. so i wish him luck and honestly hope he gets back to where he was because he is an elite player.

ecuhus1981 wrote:I've been thinking about doing a similar thread on the Sixers board about Harden. I'm about the most optimistic guy on this forum about James, both in the short- and long- term. Do you think it would be well received?

JewKobe wrote:Ya man absolutely definitely post something like that. Us Sixers fans would appreciate it

I don't see it there currently, but would love to read that in future, Ecu!

JewKobe-- I know many Nets fans have been forgiving of Harden. I was too, until the final insider info came out at the end. Frankly, I would be keeping a tight eye on his professionalism if I was a Sixers fan.

I do think Morey has set himself up in a little bit of a trap situation, because on the one hand, he'll no doubt do everything in his power to arrange a favorable situation with James, starting with special rules that only apply to him, and having Doc mostly running the offense the way he likes. But also (hopefully) not overplaying him like our doofus coach did in BRK. OTOH, Harden isn't as professional and dedicated as some other players, and like Bill was alluding to, I don't see that as a good fit down the road, health-wise, attitude-wise and supermax contract-wise. So to me, Morey has a certain challenge in front of him that consists of him telling Beard: 'it'll be much like the good olde days, but we're going to need to try a little harder this time.' Something to that effect, anyway.

Having a real coach like Doc should probably help Harden's professionalism, but I see Embiid being the bigger key here. A vital key, really. I think Joel's drive and hunger have a chance to kind of revitalise Jame's slackitude, helping get the absolute best out of him for the next couple seasons or so. At the same time, at some point I could also see Beard reverting to his hard-partying, lateness to team functions and low effort on the court at times, and that downright getting under Embiid's skin. Also, I see some ball-sharing issues similar to the way Harden and KD weren't all that great of a fit. If the team's winning, I'm guessing Joel sees less minutes ball-handling as a perfectly-reasonable sacrifice. If not, yeah...

So if everything works out, sure, I think this trade helps the Sixers win a ring, but the downside ain't pretty IMO. Maybe the boo-birds help or hinder all that, I don't know. I doubt Harden's used to hearing that from home crowds. Does he do his standard eye-rolling shrug-off, if so? Maybe!

gigantes wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:I've been thinking about doing a similar thread on the Sixers board about Harden. I'm about the most optimistic guy on this forum about James, both in the short- and long- term. Do you think it would be well received?

JewKobe wrote:Ya man absolutely definitely post something like that. Us Sixers fans would appreciate it

I don't see it there currently, but would love to read that in future, Ecu!

JewKobe-- I know many Nets fans have been forgiving of Harden. I was too, until the final insider info came out at the end. Frankly, I would be keeping a tight eye on his professionalism if I was a Sixers fan.

I do think Morey has set himself up in a little bit of a trap situation, because on the one hand, he'll no doubt do everything in his power to arrange a favorable situation with James, starting with special rules that only apply to him, and having Doc mostly running the offense the way he likes. But also (hopefully) not overplaying him like our doofus coach did in BRK. OTOH, Harden isn't as professional and dedicated as some other players, and like Bill was alluding to, I don't see that as a good fit down the road, health-wise, attitude-wise and supermax contract-wise. So to me, Morey has a certain challenge in front of him that consists of him telling Beard: 'it'll be much like the good olde days, but we're going to need to try a little harder this time.' Something to that effect, anyway.

Having a real coach like Doc should probably help Harden's professionalism, but I see Embiid being the bigger key here. A vital key, really. I think Joel's drive and hunger have a chance to kind of revitalise Jame's slackitude, helping get the absolute best out of him for the next couple seasons or so. At the same time, at some point I could also see Beard reverting to his hard-partying, lateness to team functions and low effort on the court at times, and that downright getting under Embiid's skin. Also, I see some ball-sharing issues similar to the way Harden and KD weren't all that great of a fit. If the team's winning, I'm guessing Joel sees less minutes ball-handling as a perfectly-reasonable sacrifice. If not, yeah...

So if everything works out, sure, I think this trade helps the Sixers win a ring, but the downside ain't pretty IMO. Maybe the boo-birds help or hinder all that, I don't know. I doubt Harden's used to hearing that from home crowds. Does he do his standard eye-rolling shrug-off, if so? Maybe!

Truly appreciate the insight. Thank you my friend.

No doubt this trade has its risk. This could easily backfire but the upside was just worth the gamble to make. And if there’s any gm in nba that I would trust to handle harden it’s morey. He has a legit relationship with him and built real success in Houston. As far as ball dominance there will definitely be an adjustment but both players are just so intelligent that I think they’ll figure it out. One thing about doc which I think will be good for James is he does not overplay his players in regular season. As frustrating as that may be cause those all bench lineups for extended period of time has killed us but it keeps the stars fresh. Joel only sees about 32 minutes a game. And harden will likely see a similar amount. Plus we will stagger harden and embiid. So they’ll only play together for half their minutes.

In the long run it also helps us to have less offensive burden on embiid. Our team is at its best when embiid does a little less on offense and uses that energy saved on defense. When embiid wants to be his nearly Gobert good on the defensive end. He has scaled back defensively mostly cause he has to use so much energy on offense that he can’t keep up that same intensity on defense. Having to do less on offense will allow him to do more defensively. In addition embiid has struggled late in games in the post season because he just wears out. Too much to put on him anchoring our defense plus being our only offensive option. Having harden here should give us a fresher embiid

JewKobe wrote:

gigantes wrote:

ecuhus1981 wrote:I've been thinking about doing a similar thread on the Sixers board about Harden. I'm about the most optimistic guy on this forum about James, both in the short- and long- term. Do you think it would be well received?

JewKobe wrote:Ya man absolutely definitely post something like that. Us Sixers fans would appreciate it

I don't see it there currently, but would love to read that in future, Ecu!

JewKobe-- I know many Nets fans have been forgiving of Harden. I was too, until the final insider info came out at the end. Frankly, I would be keeping a tight eye on his professionalism if I was a Sixers fan.

I do think Morey has set himself up in a little bit of a trap situation, because on the one hand, he'll no doubt do everything in his power to arrange a favorable situation with James, starting with special rules that only apply to him, and having Doc mostly running the offense the way he likes. But also (hopefully) not overplaying him like our doofus coach did in BRK. OTOH, Harden isn't as professional and dedicated as some other players, and like Bill was alluding to, I don't see that as a good fit down the road, health-wise, attitude-wise and supermax contract-wise. So to me, Morey has a certain challenge in front of him that consists of him telling Beard: 'it'll be much like the good olde days, but we're going to need to try a little harder this time.' Something to that effect, anyway.

Having a real coach like Doc should probably help Harden's professionalism, but I see Embiid being the bigger key here. A vital key, really. I think Joel's drive and hunger have a chance to kind of revitalise Jame's slackitude, helping get the absolute best out of him for the next couple seasons or so. At the same time, at some point I could also see Beard reverting to his hard-partying, lateness to team functions and low effort on the court at times, and that downright getting under Embiid's skin. Also, I see some ball-sharing issues similar to the way Harden and KD weren't all that great of a fit. If the team's winning, I'm guessing Joel sees less minutes ball-handling as a perfectly-reasonable sacrifice. If not, yeah...

So if everything works out, sure, I think this trade helps the Sixers win a ring, but the downside ain't pretty IMO. Maybe the boo-birds help or hinder all that, I don't know. I doubt Harden's used to hearing that from home crowds. Does he do his standard eye-rolling shrug-off, if so? Maybe!

Truly appreciate the insight. Thank you my friend.

No doubt this trade has its risk. This could easily backfire but the upside was just worth the gamble to make. And if there’s any gm in nba that I would trust to handle harden it’s morey. He has a legit relationship with him and built real success in Houston. As far as ball dominance there will definitely be an adjustment but both players are just so intelligent that I think they’ll figure it out. One thing about doc which I think will be good for James is he does not overplay his players in regular season. As frustrating as that may be cause those all bench lineups for extended period of time has killed us but it keeps the stars fresh. Joel only sees about 32 minutes a game. And harden will likely see a similar amount. Plus we will stagger harden and embiid. So they’ll only play together for half their minutes.

In the long run it also helps us to have less offensive burden on embiid. Our team is at its best when embiid does a little less on offense and uses that energy saved on defense. When embiid wants to be his nearly Gobert good on the defensive end. He has scaled back defensively mostly cause he has to use so much energy on offense that he can’t keep up that same intensity on defense. Having to do less on offense will allow him to do more defensively. In addition embiid has struggled late in games in the post season because he just wears out. Too much to put on him anchoring our defense plus being our only offensive option. Having harden here should give us a fresher embiid

It must be nice to have a coach that knows how to win games without playing his superstar players 40+ mins a night.

I don't blame Harden for leaving. Not one bit.

MrDollarBills wrote:

JewKobe wrote:

gigantes wrote:I don't see it there currently, but would love to read that in future, Ecu!

JewKobe-- I know many Nets fans have been forgiving of Harden. I was too, until the final insider info came out at the end. Frankly, I would be keeping a tight eye on his professionalism if I was a Sixers fan.

I do think Morey has set himself up in a little bit of a trap situation, because on the one hand, he'll no doubt do everything in his power to arrange a favorable situation with James, starting with special rules that only apply to him, and having Doc mostly running the offense the way he likes. But also (hopefully) not overplaying him like our doofus coach did in BRK. OTOH, Harden isn't as professional and dedicated as some other players, and like Bill was alluding to, I don't see that as a good fit down the road, health-wise, attitude-wise and supermax contract-wise. So to me, Morey has a certain challenge in front of him that consists of him telling Beard: 'it'll be much like the good olde days, but we're going to need to try a little harder this time.' Something to that effect, anyway.

Having a real coach like Doc should probably help Harden's professionalism, but I see Embiid being the bigger key here. A vital key, really. I think Joel's drive and hunger have a chance to kind of revitalise Jame's slackitude, helping get the absolute best out of him for the next couple seasons or so. At the same time, at some point I could also see Beard reverting to his hard-partying, lateness to team functions and low effort on the court at times, and that downright getting under Embiid's skin. Also, I see some ball-sharing issues similar to the way Harden and KD weren't all that great of a fit. If the team's winning, I'm guessing Joel sees less minutes ball-handling as a perfectly-reasonable sacrifice. If not, yeah...

So if everything works out, sure, I think this trade helps the Sixers win a ring, but the downside ain't pretty IMO. Maybe the boo-birds help or hinder all that, I don't know. I doubt Harden's used to hearing that from home crowds. Does he do his standard eye-rolling shrug-off, if so? Maybe!

Truly appreciate the insight. Thank you my friend.

No doubt this trade has its risk. This could easily backfire but the upside was just worth the gamble to make. And if there’s any gm in nba that I would trust to handle harden it’s morey. He has a legit relationship with him and built real success in Houston. As far as ball dominance there will definitely be an adjustment but both players are just so intelligent that I think they’ll figure it out. One thing about doc which I think will be good for James is he does not overplay his players in regular season. As frustrating as that may be cause those all bench lineups for extended period of time has killed us but it keeps the stars fresh. Joel only sees about 32 minutes a game. And harden will likely see a similar amount. Plus we will stagger harden and embiid. So they’ll only play together for half their minutes.

In the long run it also helps us to have less offensive burden on embiid. Our team is at its best when embiid does a little less on offense and uses that energy saved on defense. When embiid wants to be his nearly Gobert good on the defensive end. He has scaled back defensively mostly cause he has to use so much energy on offense that he can’t keep up that same intensity on defense. Having to do less on offense will allow him to do more defensively. In addition embiid has struggled late in games in the post season because he just wears out. Too much to put on him anchoring our defense plus being our only offensive option. Having harden here should give us a fresher embiid

It must be nice to have a coach that knows how to win games without playing his superstar players 40+ mins a night.

I don't blame Harden for leaving. Not one bit.

Doc has his faults. I’m not a fan of him overall personally but one thing I do appreciate is he makes a concerted effort to not overload his starters in regular season. You’ll see embiid play just 32 minutes. Joel usually plays first 9 minutes in 1st quarter and last 7 minutes in 2nd quarter. Same for 3rd and 4th. If game is a blow out in 4th he usually doesn’t see the last 7 minutes and it’s just 25-26 minutes. And if it’s a big game like that bucks game he might stretch embiid to 37. But that’s rare

My perspective.

First off, i want to share my position on Ben first so you can understand me. I never wanted Ben since day 1, i always wanted Ingram.

I think value is relative. Ben as a Net is more valuable than Ben as a Sixers.

As a Sixer he is asked to be a top tier star that can anchor a team on both ends. This is why Sixers selects Ben first overall, why we didnt trade Ben for Kawhi, opted Ben over Jimmy, overpaid Tobi and Al to cater to a more Ben centric team and etc.

As a Net, he will not be asked to score. He can focus on what he is good at. Improve a team’s defense and improve opportunistic scoring opportunities like transition.

I do think Ben can take Nets into a higher level. I think Kyrie and KD with shooters like Seth or Mills is already more than enough to win the championship. If Ben can take your transition game into another level and provide high impact on defense, you’re looking at a possible ATG team.

BUT..

Ben’s play is relative. He is very good on a loose basketball setting. Like those soft regular season games or against weak playoff teams (like Wizards type teams). The problem with Ben is there are just some environment when he is not playable.

Nutshell of his 2nd round playoff career:

2018: we had to start TJ McConnel over him
2019: he has to be at dunker spot
2020: n/a
2021: not playable down the stretch and shot 33% at the line

Ben’s best situation is him playing at a lottery team playing less of this high pressured situation and just play a heavy dose of loose basketball. This also explains why he wants to be in Sacramento.

The next best scenario is on a team like yours when he is not asked to be a point guard and just be a Draymond Green type glue guy.

He will never live up to our expectations just as what Wiggins was with the Wolves. But he will live up to the Nets expectations just as how Wiggins is now with the Warriors.

Simmons is significantly better than Wiggins

This is the first time that Simmons has played outside of the Sixers system. So I think you do need to wait and see how relevant the OP's analysis (which reflects Ben in the Philly system well) is to Ben on the Nets. Some of the things in the OP are not true of Ben at certain points in his career as a sixer when Embiid was out for long stretches. I also think last playoffs was an especially bad one for Ben because of the mental struggles and family issues at that time.

I'd err on the side of thinking Ben is likely to be better than OP has described but it would be good to watch for the behvaiours OP described, to see if they are replicated as dramatically.

I think that so little is required from Ben offensively here and his Defense will be so much added value that it will be hard for him not to make a pretty significant bottom line impact.

Like offensively 10/5 on 55 TS% would be way more then enough.

The spacing is a non issue. He is stepping into the Bruce Brown/Bemby/James Johnson spot where you either have the ball or are cutting off ball/in the dunker spot. no one respected any of those 3 guys and teams leave them wide open. So it isnt like Ben is creating a spacing issue that was hadnt already overcome with lesser players and equal detriments to spacing.

Defensively, he allows KD not to have to drop 30 and guard the opponents best wing. which is huge.

The biggest impact thought will be transition... rebounding and forcing turnovers. Kyrie/KD are automatic on the break and seth/mills in transition on open 3s is a big momentum boost.

10 pts, 7 rebs, 5 assts, 2 steals + solid defense would have a massive impact for us.

Prokorov wrote:I think that so little is required from Ben offensively here and his Defense will be so much added value that it will be hard for him not to make a pretty significant bottom line impact.

Like offensively 10/5 on 55 TS% would be way more then enough.

The spacing is a non issue. He is stepping into the Bruce Brown/Bemby/James Johnson spot where you either have the ball or are cutting off ball/in the dunker spot. no one respected any of those 3 guys and teams leave them wide open. So it isnt like Ben is creating a spacing issue that was hadnt already overcome with lesser players and equal detriments to spacing.

Defensively, he allows KD not to have to drop 30 and guard the opponents best wing. which is huge.

The biggest impact thought will be transition... rebounding and forcing turnovers. Kyrie/KD are automatic on the break and seth/mills in transition on open 3s is a big momentum boost.

10 pts, 7 rebs, 5 assts, 2 steals + solid defense would have a massive impact for us.

Simmons will do those numbers in his sleep

Prokorov wrote:I think that so little is required from Ben offensively here and his Defense will be so much added value that it will be hard for him not to make a pretty significant bottom line impact.

Like offensively 10/5 on 55 TS% would be way more then enough.

The spacing is a non issue. He is stepping into the Bruce Brown/Bemby/James Johnson spot where you either have the ball or are cutting off ball/in the dunker spot. no one respected any of those 3 guys and teams leave them wide open. So it isnt like Ben is creating a spacing issue that was hadnt already overcome with lesser players and equal detriments to spacing.

Defensively, he allows KD not to have to drop 30 and guard the opponents best wing. which is huge.

The biggest impact thought will be transition... rebounding and forcing turnovers. Kyrie/KD are automatic on the break and seth/mills in transition on open 3s is a big momentum boost.

10 pts, 7 rebs, 5 assts, 2 steals + solid defense would have a massive impact for us.

Oh dear ,
Are you in for a shock.

Sent from my RMX3031 using RealGM mobile app

Rastas wrote:

Prokorov wrote:I think that so little is required from Ben offensively here and his Defense will be so much added value that it will be hard for him not to make a pretty significant bottom line impact.

Like offensively 10/5 on 55 TS% would be way more then enough.

The spacing is a non issue. He is stepping into the Bruce Brown/Bemby/James Johnson spot where you either have the ball or are cutting off ball/in the dunker spot. no one respected any of those 3 guys and teams leave them wide open. So it isnt like Ben is creating a spacing issue that was hadnt already overcome with lesser players and equal detriments to spacing.

Defensively, he allows KD not to have to drop 30 and guard the opponents best wing. which is huge.

The biggest impact thought will be transition... rebounding and forcing turnovers. Kyrie/KD are automatic on the break and seth/mills in transition on open 3s is a big momentum boost.

10 pts, 7 rebs, 5 assts, 2 steals + solid defense would have a massive impact for us.

Oh dear ,
Are you in for a shock.

Sent from my RMX3031 using RealGM mobile app

Right now Bruce Brown is giving us 9/5/2/1 on 54 TS%
Are you saying Ben cant give us slightly more then that?

maybe im being a homer or whatever but the idea that Ben can not be a better version of Bruce Brown would be one of the bigger shock/disappointments ive seen in almost 35 years as a Nets fan... and your talking about ALOT of disappointment over that duration.